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Author Topic: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain  (Read 3292 times)

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Offline AmericanPiddler

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Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« on: November 23, 2017, 07:53:27 PM »
Hey all,
          I hope this is in the right spot, but would like some advice and use it in this video!
Planning on A YouTube video this next week or so, I'm going to compare the homeowners safety chain verse the non safety chisel chain! I'm going to use the Husqvarna 455 Rancher with a H47 chain and compare it to the off the shelf big box store H80 chain! Any advice on the project and possibly what you'd like to see in a comparison like is greatly appreciated thanks! Here's a link to my YouTube channel called American Piddler! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCID8zazGyhxjMZC4JmvCrhw
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Offline DelawhereJoe

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2017, 08:44:37 PM »
One thing you will probably find is that the H47 has more consistency in length between the cutter and the raker, I have found when I sharpen the H80 that some teeth are too close to the raker to get the file in or it binds. Also with the H80 the rakers are most of the time set higher, they should be .024-.025 but the last chain I got of the H80 had to be filed down the first time it was sharpened. I will say that the H80 or Oregon vanguard chain does have a weight advantage over most of the other safety chains as they don't use the safety bumpers added to the chain.
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Offline AmericanPiddler

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2017, 10:30:11 PM »
I can tell you this I've ran both for a while and after using the H47 the speed and ease that it cuts even when dull is just an unmatched performance compared to the H80 chain..... but I'll be using brand new chains for the YouTube episode
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Offline zoltar

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2017, 05:18:03 AM »
The thing I'm most interested in is how effective safety chains are in preventing or reducing kickback. I've seen other people compare cutting performance, but I've never seen anyone compare the difference in kickback. Probably not the safest thing to test though, unless you set up some kind of a test rig, like in this video:


Offline AmericanPiddler

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2017, 02:38:31 PM »
Kickback is definitely a topic that will be talked about.... there is virtually no kick back with the homeowners safety chain and with the h47 it eats but it will buck if you are not paying attention to it!
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2017, 02:53:26 PM »
If you can find the old Oregon DoubleGuard© detachable noses for the PowerMatch© bars. They reduce kickback better then almost any green safety chain ....run all the yellow chisel chain you want!
This is a 576XP running H48 (73LGX) chain on a 20" Oregon PowerMatch bar with DoubleGuard nose.
 

 
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Offline AmericanPiddler

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2017, 06:48:15 PM »
Holmen Tree,
       I appreciate the idea and advice on the guard.... but I'm looking for input in my next YouTube video on comparing safety chain vs non safety chisel chain thanks for your time and knowledge!
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2017, 09:32:12 PM »
Holmen Tree,
       I appreciate the idea and advice on the guard.... but I'm looking for input in my next YouTube video on comparing safety chain vs non safety chisel chain thanks for your time and knowledge!
Depends what you're referring to as "safety Chain."
H47 (72 LGX) is actually referred as safety chain if sharpened to proper factory settings
Is your video going to demonstrate various sharpening scenarios causing different levels of kickback energies?

From 1982 a chain I field tested before introduction and today called 72LGX also rebadged as H47.

 

  

 
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Offline AmericanPiddler

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2017, 10:59:37 PM »
I don't believe I am looking at it that way but that's a good point if sharpened a certain way it would increase the likely good of kickback.... I guess I'm just wanting to compare the difference in the chain from the big box store and the chain that they don't sell....
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2017, 11:18:18 PM »
Something else to think about is the Oregon power cut, 72 LPX they sell it at lowes as well it just has the safety bumpers in it. Now you can also get the same chain from other places thats not labeled as low-kickback/safety chain it just doesn't have the bumpers. Perhaps a safety chain show down is in your future too, go hit up all the big stores in your area Lowes, Home Depot and Tractor Supply to see what cuts the fastest off the shelf. Then take the fastest and pair them up to the non-safety chains and see who wins.
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Offline AmericanPiddler

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2017, 03:52:45 PM »
Something else to think about is the Oregon power cut, 72 LPX they sell it at lowes as well it just has the safety bumpers in it. Now you can also get the same chain from other places thats not labeled as low-kickback/safety chain it just doesn't have the bumpers. Perhaps a safety chain show down is in your future too, go hit up all the big stores in your area Lowes, Home Depot and Tractor Supply to see what cuts the fastest off the shelf. Then take the fastest and pair them up to the non-safety chains and see who wins.

I really like that idea! Okay so... I have the H80 & the H47.... so what else would you recommend.... and am I wrong in my thinking that the h80 is safety chain and the h47 isn't.... because I know the h47 chain out performs the 80 but it also has a little more kick so to speak
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2017, 05:22:48 PM »
H80 is rebadged Oregon 72 Vanguard which has been around for quite a few years. I'm in the big city at the moment so can't look at my old V chain but I'm sure mine is from the days before the Anti vibe geometry was introduced, that's about 15 years ago.

It is classed as a green chain in the US where every retailer is paranoid of getting sued by some hapless customer. The wide track depth gauge on the H80-V chain definitely does not penetrate wood fiber near as much as a LP or LPX/ H47 H48 H42 chain does.
So that's easy to confirm when the chain's are new off the roll.
But how the end user sharpens the cutter bits and files the depth gauges is another story.


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Offline AmericanPiddler

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2017, 03:39:01 PM »
Okay... I know that we can sharpen them and cause them to be different than factory specs.... what I am asking or planning on comparing is brand new chaims.... performance etc... I have the H47 & H80 do you have a suggestion for another chain?
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2017, 10:43:24 PM »
Okay... I know that we can sharpen them and cause them to be different than factory specs.... what I am asking or planning on comparing is brand new chaims.... performance etc... I have the H47 & H80 do you have a suggestion for another chain?
Seeing you're settled with .50 3/8 you gotta  throw a H46/72LPX in there too.
Looking forward to your video ....
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Offline AmericanPiddler

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 01:18:19 AM »
I'm no expert lol just a homeowner who likes to piddle so of we throw in the 46,47, & IMO box store H80 will this show how much different it is going to home depot Lowe's etc... compared to ordering a more aggressive chain for the same price
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 11:15:27 AM »
A.P. your test wouldn't be complete without the Stihl 33RS3 chain.
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2017, 09:49:31 AM »
Right on so I'll add that chain now what about the H82 chain? So that would be the stihl chain then the h80 the H47  & H82 thoughts please and also what should we be testing straight out of the package!
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2017, 12:37:58 PM »
Right on so I'll add that chain now what about the H82 chain? So that would be the stihl chain then the h80 the H47  & H82 thoughts please and also what should we be testing straight out of the package!
H82 is a great addition A.P. great idea.
Being square ground with different cutter angles then a round ground chain it will be the fastest cutting over the others.
Oregon was the first to develop a kick back energy testing machine back in the early 1970's.  Which led to the development of the 72-75 LP chain shortly after.

Now for my opinion on how you should test kickback energy that's up to you. For liability reasons I'm staying out of this :D
Zoltar's video in his previous post is interesting.
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Offline AmericanPiddler

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2017, 10:00:12 AM »
So here's an idea I was given..... take each chain obviously on the same saw and use a few oz of fuel and cut cookies from telephone/utility poles uniform in size until the saw runs out of fuel... not only time this for each chain but also count the number of cookies cut.... run the test at least twice to help show edge retention but also efficiency! I don't know that I can properly measure kickback but will definitely discuss it! My guess is that the non safety chain will be at least 25% more efficient not only in time but also number of cookies cut..... if the saw doesn't have to work as hard it will burn less fuel less fuel means in this test more time to cut and since the chisel chain cuts faster we will see a greater increase in number of cookies cut vs. Time and fuel usage! again this is my hypothesis not any proof in that statement....
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2017, 12:57:35 PM »
A.P., you're only testing chain cutting speed. Also I don't recommend cutting into utility poles treated with industrial grade preservatives, easiest  way to dull your chain.

I recommend doing controlled speed bucking cuts through a green log with the bark removed. No knots and with uniform diameter throughout the log.

Good way to test speed and kick back reduction with the chosen saw chains is do the technique the Australian National Chainsaw Racing rules dictate.

Here's a short video of how they do it.
They start the cut with a bore cut, cut down then back up to release the cookie.
But what I suggest for you to do is make the initial starting bore cuts on all your cuts.
Of course have someone time you with a stop watch.
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Offline Woodcutter_Mo

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2017, 06:38:23 PM »
 Also to add about cutting (assumingly used) treated utility poles, they might vary in cut speed as you go to the top of the pole. The bottom of the pole is usually alot heavier because the treatment stuff seems to settle at the bottom of the pole over time. Just an observation I've made when cutting them to use as corner posts for fencing. And they do seem hard on chains as well.
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 08:48:15 AM »
I'm no expert at posting pictures here but I have literally cut hundreds of telephone poles and have a large stack for fence post we use 12' post for our 8' deer fence so I know how hard they are on a chain and also understand that the butts of the post are definitely denser than other portions.....
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2017, 12:09:53 PM »
A test is not a reliable test if you don't have consistent even sized wood.

This is what I chainsaw mill for my chainsaw speed cutting competitions. Beautiful knot free white spruce in 10"◊14"◊16 ft. With 4 feet of the butt end of the log removed.
Fair for everyone. ;D
 

 
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2017, 02:52:29 PM »
That's a beautiful log! I will have to find something.... I have some spare 6x6 treated lumber post laying around!
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2017, 03:58:54 PM »
A customer brought me his saw today for a sharpening. 
He says he can't sharpen it anymore to make it cut straight.

Here it is :D
How does .090" depth gauge setting sound to you?
I told him he was filing the wrong part of the cutter. So I sold him 2 new loops.
But he wanted this old chain back for a backup  :D
 

 
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2017, 05:24:28 PM »
 :D If he had some power on that chain it would grab like the track of a bulldozer .Perhaps with the help of a skateboard he might might be able to travel about 50 miles per hour .

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2017, 11:51:07 PM »
Al, that chain was on his 034AV I'm showing here.
First 034 I've seen without the traditional side chain tensioner.
 

  

 
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Offline ButchC

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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2017, 07:34:06 AM »
A customer brought me his saw today for a sharpening. 
He says he can't sharpen it anymore to make it cut straight.

Here it is :D
How does .090" depth gauge setting sound to you?
I told him he was filing the wrong part of the cutter. So I sold him 2 new loops.
But he wanted this old chain back for a backup  :D
 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Sorta makes a guy feel sorry for the guy and how much work he was going though to get a little bit of wood cut. Reminds me of a neighbor who burns a good bit of firewood but gets his chain (not chains) sharpened once a year. "because sharpening it all the time ruins the cutters" 
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2017, 09:23:39 AM »
A customer brought me his saw today for a sharpening. 
He says he can't sharpen it anymore to make it cut straight.

Here it is :D
How does .090" depth gauge setting sound to you?
I told him he was filing the wrong part of the cutter. So I sold him 2 new loops.
But he wanted this old chain back for a backup  :D
 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Sorta makes a guy feel sorry for the guy and how much work he was going though to get a little bit of wood cut. Reminds me of a neighbor who burns a good bit of firewood but gets his chain (not chains) sharpened once a year. "because sharpening it all the time ruins the cutters"
The customer asked me to sharpen it anyways.
I said no with those low depth gauges a sharp cutter would only dig in more making a very severe kickback situation.
The bar the chain is on in my pic is a 14" narrow kerf Husqvarna bar that I keep in my bench vise to file the chains.
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Re: Safety Chain vs. Chisel Chain
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2017, 02:57:40 AM »
Holman,
     You should've cut the chain in half lol I'm glad he doesn't own a larger saw with the ability to sharpen after he files the takers off wow SMH
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