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Author Topic: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.  (Read 3053 times)

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Offline Kbeitz

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What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« on: November 26, 2017, 06:56:47 PM »
What do you use and like? What works and donít?
I️ have a kubota engine giving me fits.
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Offline dgdrls

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2017, 07:53:30 PM »
I like the Opti-lube products,  I have an 80's vintage JD 650 with a Yanmar 2 popper

Or Stanadyne

Whats up with the Kubota?

D

Offline jwade

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2017, 08:10:43 PM »
i have always used stabil in my truck and tractors. hope this helps.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2017, 08:28:06 PM »
I like the Opti-lube products,  I have an 80's vintage JD 650 with a Yanmar 2 popper

Or Stanadyne

Whats up with the Kubota?

D

First time ever with an engine problem with any of my Kubotas.
After running it hard all week when first starting it up the 3 cly will
only run on two clys. The smoke just pours out. The only way I
can get the third cly to pick up is to make it work hard. Once it
picks up the third cly I have no problems until I shut it down and
restart it. I finished all the work I need to do with it so now I got
to get my problem fixed. I know next to nothing about diesel engines
but I'm guessing that I have an injector sticking. I hope that's all
that's wrong with it.
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Offline dgdrls

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2017, 08:52:21 PM »
seems like a good place to start,   black smoke is too much fuel,  im guessing this is an older all mechanical engine???

D

Offline North River Energy

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2017, 10:33:19 PM »
Maybe run some atf through it?

Offline barbender

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2017, 10:33:32 PM »
If it is smoking white/blue and smells like raw fuel, that would point towards an injector stuck open. On a mechanically injected engine, it's probably pretty simple to pull the injector and inspect it. I have an injector I suspect is hanging up a bit on my 03 Dodge Cummins, it's a lot more complicated to get those injectors out. Mine was smoking a lot On start up and while idling, and also when driving around at low speed. It ran fine other than the smoke. I ran Power Service Diesel Kleen (it's the gray bottle) at a strong dose and that definitely helped. I need to load the filter with it and idle for a few minutes, and let it soak the injectors. If it was a mechanical injector, I would've just pulled it out and looked at it already.
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Offline Corley5

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2017, 10:37:49 PM »
I run Sea Foam in everything both diesel and gas.
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Offline barbender

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2017, 10:40:30 PM »
Also, as far as I understand (I'm no diesel expert) black smoke is from over fueling, injecting more fuel than a cylinder can burn, but everything else is in order (lugging a diesel will usually cause black smoke). White smoke comes from the injectors letting fuel into the cylinder other than when they are timed to fire by the injection pump. On newer common rail engines like my 5.9 Cummins, if an injector sticks it can leak fuel into the cylinder constantly because the injector always has pressure to it. On a mechanical engine,  the injectors only get fuel when the injection pump pulses pressure to it.
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Offline barbender

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2017, 10:41:27 PM »
I was going to use some Sea Foam, but I read that it contains alcohol.
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Offline BLink

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2017, 10:52:15 PM »
I would first crack the line loose while running. If there is any air in the system it won't run right.

After I changed the filters ,I have disconnected the fuel supply and return lines and poked them into the bottle of injector cleaner and let it run for 30 minutes while keeping an eye on it. I put it back together and it cleaned them very well!
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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2017, 10:52:39 PM »
  Only issue I ever had was with an H Farmall.  I added some and it took several sediment bowl cleanings to get the crud that it loosened up in the gas tank ;) 8) ;D
  A lot of guys run it in diesels around here.  Car Quest in Indian River is one of the largest volume dealers in Michigan. 
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Offline james

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2017, 11:08:12 PM »
also check that you dont have a airlock forming in the line to the injector a air bubble can cause strange behavior
james

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2017, 01:13:14 AM »
seems like a good place to start,   black smoke is too much fuel,  im guessing this is an older all mechanical engine???

D

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Offline coxy

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2017, 06:23:02 AM »
check air filter  I always pull them out then start it to see if it clears up    as far as injector cleaner I use atf  or 2cycle oil in the fuel

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2017, 10:06:05 AM »
Might sound crude but use the old screw driver to the ear method on each injector, if it is in fact the injector it will sound distinctly different than the other 2.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2017, 10:21:03 AM »
Might sound crude but use the old screw driver to the ear method on each injector, if it is in fact the injector it will sound distinctly different than the other 2.

Thanks... i'll try that...
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Offline 21incher

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2017, 12:59:54 PM »
On my little Deere with a Yammar I had the glow plug timmer stick on and burn up the glow plugs. It would start fine when it was warm out, but when it turned colder it became hard to start, blew black smoke and ran rough for the first couple minutes. New glow plugs and a manual switch controlled relay fixed it. Have you checked the glow plugs?  :)
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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2017, 01:28:19 PM »
On my little Deere with a Yammar I had the glow plug timmer stick on and burn up the glow plugs. It would start fine when it was warm out, but when it turned colder it became hard to start, blew black smoke and ran rough for the first couple minutes. New glow plugs and a manual switch controlled relay fixed it. Have you checked the glow plugs?  :)

My glow plugs only come on when I turn my key start switch backwards.
On my dash is another glow plug that you can see turn red.
Then you know its ready to start.
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Offline Grizzly

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2017, 02:18:33 PM »
I was going to use some Sea Foam, but I read that it contains alcohol.

And that made it a beverage??!  :D  Sorry, folks. Just had to be done.
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Offline Skip

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2017, 02:26:04 PM »
Sea Foam in every thing !

Offline starmac

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2017, 02:56:13 PM »
I assume you are getting white smoke until it clears up and starts running fine. I generally use howes in mine once in a while, but we used tranny fluid forever. If I think I really need to clean them, I like to fill the filter with it, then crank and let it run a few minutes, then kill it and let it sit overnight, with the pump, lines and injectors full of the cleaner.
It may also be time for you to run an overhead.
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2017, 03:11:02 PM »
I was going to use some Sea Foam, but I read that it contains alcohol.

And that made it a beverage??!  :D  Sorry, folks. Just had to be done.
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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2017, 08:40:08 PM »
😂😂😂Because alcohol attracts water, and can cause moisture problems down the line. No personal experience, I read it on the internet so I know it's true😁
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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2017, 09:59:20 PM »
😂😂😂Because alcohol attracts water, and can cause moisture problems down the line. No personal experience, I read it on the internet so I know it's true😁

Add a cup of water to your can of gas and shake it up...
Remove the water and the junk added alcohol will be gone.
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2017, 05:25:39 AM »
This winter I'm going to set up a jug to do that K.
Do you have one?
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Offline bodagocreek2

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2017, 07:19:42 AM »
0ne ounce of atf for every gallon of fuel, 20 year old Kubota 2900.  seems to keep it running smooth.

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2017, 10:07:37 AM »
A little bit of atf with every fill up keeps the doctor away, or something like that.  I add diesel  fuel treatment a couple times a year but do a splash of atf every time I dump 5 gallons into my Kubota.
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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2017, 11:47:29 AM »
so your saying 1gal of atf/2cycle oil  every week  is to much  never had any trouble

Offline John Mc

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2017, 02:45:13 PM »
😂😂😂Because alcohol attracts water, and can cause moisture problems down the line. No personal experience, I read it on the internet so I know it's true😁

Add a cup of water to your can of gas and shake it up...
Remove the water and the junk added alcohol will be gone.

If it's E10 (10% ethanol) gasoline you are talking about, you'll also lose about 3 or 4 points off your octane rating by taking the ethanol out, so I hope you started with some premium grade gas, otherwise you've got some garbage on your hands (not a whole lot out of engines out there that specify 83 or 84 octane).

If it's diesel, I was not aware anyone was putting ethanol in that - except possibly as a fuel additive. Alcohol in fuel additives is most commonly used to help deal with water: it combines with the water and helps move it through the system. Alcohol becomes a problem when it has maxed out as far as the amount of water it can handle. At that point it settles out of the gas. That water/alcohol mix sitting at the bottom of your fuel can or tank is corrosive. It also does not mix well with the lubricating oil in a 2-stroke engine.
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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2017, 07:28:13 PM »
Is there a difference in on road and off road diesel other than a tax and color?
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Offline snowstorm

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2017, 08:04:07 PM »
No it's the same

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2017, 08:56:14 PM »
2 years ago I got some dirty fuel in my generator tank. The engine is a C series Cummings. It started smoking so bad it filled the valley and people where stopping because of it.  The engine started making oil. The blow by was oil mist. I pulled the fuel lines out and put them in a clean  barrel of kerosene and several brands of inj. cleaner. NO change. Next I dumped out 1 fuel filter and filled it with sea foam. This fixed half the problem and I kept sawing [and smoking ] for 2 months with no more improvement. Next with the warmer weather I went to 50% vegetable oil fuel. After a few days it cleared up completely.

Offline Runningalucas

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2017, 12:19:14 AM »
No it's the same

Can you explain?  In my area the off road diesel pumps read: Off-road Diesel
                                                                                              kerosene
Or something near that, and I've always assumed it to be truly kerosene rather than dyed on road diesel; I actually assumed it would be the older more lubricating stuff.

Offline starmac

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2017, 12:37:36 AM »
What area are you in that sells kerosene for off road diesel. There is no difference between off road and on road diesel except for the die, we don't even have died fuel here. There is a difference in summer and winter blend and that is different from area to area, depending on average temps.
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Offline Runningalucas

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2017, 02:49:58 AM »
What area are you in that sells kerosene for off road diesel. There is no difference between off road and on road diesel except for the die, we don't even have died fuel here. There is a difference in summer and winter blend and that is different from area to area, depending on average temps.

North Idaho, almost all service stations have an 'off road diesel/kerosene' pump; it's quite a bit cheaper, more so than no tax added.  I think something like 50 cents, to a buck cheaper.

Offline starmac

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2017, 03:52:23 AM »
50 cents to a buck sounds right as far as price difference goes, depending on the state.

Winter blend probably has some kero in it, but never heard it advertised as so. The winter blend the state uses on the north slope is mostly kero, you get terrible mileage with it.
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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2017, 06:27:20 AM »
I also know it that way too,snowstorm.
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Offline Randy88

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2017, 07:08:43 PM »
If its a kubota and smokes like that, if it were me, I'd pull the injectors and take them in to be cleaned and repaired before it wash's down the cylinder and you score a bore, thinking those engines have no sleeve's but I could be wrong. 

The injectors should be easy to get out, just take off the lines and unscrew them or take the hold down bolt out and twist the injector out.     

Anything less with a diesel is just a temporary fix and probably won't last long, I've never bought injectors or had them done on any of my Kubota's as of yet, but done about everything else and most injectors are pretty cheap to fix and have the worn parts replaced and then the fix it shop can do a poppet test on them to know if the spray pattern is right and it should run as many hours next go around as the last. 

You also might have a pump issue, not sure on that model of engine, but is there a screen or anything in the pump that might be dirty or in need of replacing.    By just doing the poppet test, the shop should be able to tell you if you have a pump issue or if its in the injector itself.     

I have several Isusu engines that have a banjo screen in the system that needs cleaning regularly, but don't recall any of my Kubota's needing that done.     

As for all diesel being the same, that depends on WHO your buying from and where they are at, diesel at the pumps are inspected regularly by inspectors, most all offroad fuel isn't, so what does this mean to you, it means any diesel that can't pass inspection, goes for offroad use, same goes for any fuel coming off a truck, most is not inspected, so in theory, the best quality fuel is at a service station out of a pump, the poorest is delivered to you at your home, shop or farm because inspectors don't come to your place to pull samples.       

All diesel is clear when its first made, only offroad is dyed red and no tax is supposed to be on it for road fuel, but sales tax applies in my state for anything not farm related on dyed fuel.     

Then there are grades of diesel, premium is the best, some call it by other names and depending on what fuel additives are in it, will determine what fuel you want and when.     There is also number one fuel, which is thinner and for winter use, but lowers hp and increases fuel consumption, but tends to not jell up as much or as fast in cold weather.   Number two is standard, and some use blends of number one and number two in the winter, some fuel stations use additive packages in the winter, some use different additives in the summer as well, just depends on who your buying fuel from and who they sell to and what those customers want for additives.      Then there is also bio fuels, or blends of bio diesel, not something I'd recommend in the winter at all.   

All diesel sold today is low sulfur to my knowledge, which has lower lube levels in it due to less sulfur, which can cause issues with older diesels, which might be part of the problem with your Kubota, and the reason why I'd pull the injectors and have them checked over by a good shop.       

I'm not fond of the crap in a can cures myself for diesels, for the cost of those additives I can pull the injectors and rebuild them over the live of the additives and I know what I have is good and should run x number of hours before needing attention again, best of luck on whatever you do.   

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2017, 06:50:43 PM »
I might have another problem. I'm now running cleaner through it but if I
pull back the throttle under anything but full throttle it drops one cylinder and
it's hard for it to pick it back up unless I give it full throttle and put it under
a load. It will smoke like crazy till it picks up the lost cylinder. If I keep it
full throttle it will run fine all day.
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Offline woodmaker

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2017, 08:42:05 PM »
I dont know if your Kubota  has hydraulic lifters  or solid lifters,but from its age I would guess solid(mechanical). If i had the problem  that you are having,I would remove the  valve cover and make certain that each valve had the specified clearance between the rocker arm and the valve stem. If there is too little clearance,a valve may not be closing completely,and without compression,a diesel wont make enough heat to ignite the fuel .  This is what is called "to run the rack",which was mentioned earlier
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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2017, 08:52:16 PM »
Sorry,starmac called it "run an overhead" . same thing.
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

Offline Randy88

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2017, 06:06:16 AM »
If its an adjustment issue with the valves, it should run terrible when its cold and improve as the engine warms up, or vice versa, as the engine warms up clearances or the gap in the valve set will change.    Running the rack is pretty simple and fast to do, just pull the valve cover off and take the measurements with a feeler gauge.   

I'd suggest you measure it first before doing anything, jot down the findings so you can look at them to compare what it should be, especially for the cylinder causing you issues, and if the gap is in relation to the other cylinders, or the wear is the same across all cylinders, adjust them to spec and start it up with the cover off, if no change, go from there.   

   

Offline Randy88

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2017, 06:24:10 AM »
Forgot to ask, does it drop the same cylinder ever time, or has this issue changed cylinders at all since the problem started??

A very fast and simple test for injector, provided the problem has always been on the same cylinder is to switch injectors in holes and see if the problem stays in the same cylinder or follows the injector and go from there.    If it stays with the same cylinder, then its the pump or in the head, if it moves to the cylinder you put the injector, then its certain to be the injector, if that makes sense.   Its a simple way to narrow down the problem, somewhat and really simple and fast to do.   

If this issue has changed cylinders, with no parts being changed or moved, then you have a different set of issues to content with.   

Also have you narrowed down which cylinder is causing the issue yet??

If not when the engine is cold, upon start up, the dead or not firing cylinder won't warm up as fast, and I'd use a heat gun myself, but your hand will work too, touch or point the heat gun on the exhaust manifold and the dead hole will remain colder that the rest, where the exhaust exists the engine.

You can switch injectors pretty fast and I'd do this before pulling the valve cover off to see if the problem moves with the injector or not, if it stays with the same cylinder, then its not the injector, run the rack, if that doesn't solve it, its probably the pump.      Sorry about forgetting to mention this before.   

If the problem has moved all on its own, with no parts being moved or any adjustments being made, that would change things considerably and I'd like to know right away, I'd have to think on that somewhat, its rare but happens, also how many hours have you put on it since this whole ordeal started.   

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2017, 09:01:47 AM »
Black smoke from a diesel is partially burned fuel.  Unburned fuel is bluish white and smells like diesel fuel.  As an example; a restricted fuel filter can cause black smoke. Some how the ignition changes timing because less fuel  and the diesel starts smoking black when in fact its not getting enough fuel.  I say, with diesels, forget everything you ever new about gas engines.

Offline carhartted

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2017, 02:57:46 AM »
Amsoil AMF. Run it 50/50 Deisel. Had a friend with a JD450 running very poorly and almost changed the pump. Sent him my 5 gallon pail of cleaner and it fixed the issue.
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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2018, 08:24:39 AM »
I'm late to the discussion but thought I'd share my story.  It's pertinent. 

4 years ago, my 95' International 4700 (DT466) was really losing power up hills and just running poorly.  Long story short, I took it to my local diesel mechanic, who has a reputation in the area as being the best.

He disconnected my fuel tank, hooked up a pressure tank of straight ATF, and ran the truck on it.  I couldn't believe what a difference it made!  Full power restored, and the truck was running unbelievably well right after.  Inexpensive injector cleaning process.

He told me, from then on, to put 2 cans of SeaFoam in every other fillup (50 gallon tank).  I've been using that stuff ever since, and also in my boat (2 stroke), pickup truck, and lawn equipment, and it has made a HUGE difference for me.
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Offline pappy19

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2018, 01:29:32 PM »
Marvel Mystery Oil, just use the recommended amount in the fuel.
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2018, 05:52:34 PM »
Looks like a good find in the junkyard just at the right time...

buda hydraulic diesel nozzle tester

Wow... One just like it on E-bay for $400.00 + $60.00 shipping.

 

 
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Offline Randy88

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2018, 09:00:05 PM »
Do you have the pressure specs for the injectors and have you checked any of them yet?     

Offline Runningalucas

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2018, 09:57:04 PM »
Hopefully, I don't step on any toes, but I also frequent a truck forum.  Recently while reading their technical articles, I came across a fuel additive showdown thread.  I've been using mystery oil additive, and was shocked how far down the list it was. 

http://www.oilburners.net/threads/fuel-additives-which-ones-are-best.33429/
Quote
CONCLUSIONS:

Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the most strict requirements requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association.
Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel.
Products 16 through 19 were found to cause the fuel/additive blend to perform worse than the baseline fuel. The cause for this is speculative. This is not unprecedented in HFRR testing and can be caused by alcohol or other components in the additives. Further investigation into the possibilities behind these poor results will investigated.
Any additive testing within +/- 20 microns of the baseline fuel could be considered to have no significant change. The repeatability of this test allows for a +/- 20 micron variability to be considered insignificant.

CREDITS:

This study would not have been possible without the participation of all companies involved and dieselplace.com. A special Thank You to all of the dieselplace.com members who generously donated toward this study and waited longer than they should have for the results. You folks are the best. Arlen Spicer, organizer.

Offline Randy88

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Re: What is the best diesel injector cleaner.
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2018, 07:18:51 AM »
Runningalucas, thanks for posting the study test results, I've seen several similar tests done over the years and all were similar in results.     What I'd like to see and if you can find it, please post it, where those products that are so popular that contain alcohol that are used for the purpose of drying out moisture or encapsulating the moisture to get it to flow through the filters and pump to get it to burn, and what the water does to the system.     

Then a study, where you dump in multiple products, at multiple rates, because almost all diesel is treated with an additive before it reaches its final destination or end user now, then the end user dumps in his or her favorite additive at their own rate in as well. 
     

   

     





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