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Author Topic: picking a moulder planner  (Read 1315 times)

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Offline tmbrcruiser

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picking a moulder planner
« on: November 27, 2017, 10:23:15 PM »
Ok to start with everyone should know I'm dumber than wood if we are talking moulder/planners.
That said, I know what I want to do just not how. My plan has been the sawmill, shop and then a kiln. Mill is up and operational and the shop building is up and empty. Would like to make solid wood paneling and flooring 35,000 to 50,000 bf per year. Given that I am the sole employee time is of great value. I have looked at Weinig moulders I just don't know the difference between models. When you talk to a machinery dealer what they are selling is what I need. Until you talk to the next dealer and then they have what I need. So how do I figure out the best model for my work load. My budget could range from $20,000.00 to $30,000.00 for the right machine.
Once you get sap in your veins, you will always have sawdust in your pockets.

Online TKehl

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 10:45:47 PM »
Really out of my league talking that kind of $.  It's about an order of magnitude larger than what I have in all of my woodworking equipment.    ::)

Zero-ith, how is the kiln coming along.  Really should be moulding dry lumber so it doesn't move after it's been machined.

First, do you have a market lined up?  That's a lot of capital to tie up, at least it would be for me.

Second, it would be good to consider contracting another moulder shop to run some flooring paneling for you.  A small shop where you could be a helping hand would be ideal.  Lets you run some equipment, see the process, and have some product to sell.

Last, how empty is an empty shop?  Putting rough cut directly in a moulder is generally a bad idea, though much can be overcome with sufficient HP.  You will need a planer to presize blanks from rough cut.  You will also need to group by width.  A gang saw or straight line rip could do this.  A jointer would also be nice, though a 5 head machine partially overcomes this.

The good news is that you can buy a lot with that kind of $.  New, used, or refurbished.  Wouldn't hurt to look at an old Mattison moulder either. 

I'm assuming you have 3 phase power?
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 05:59:11 AM »
Short answer: Weinig 22N in good condition with tooling. And look at SCM too, good quality machine that does everything a weinig does at half the price

The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline Cazzhrdwd

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 11:01:41 PM »
I started with flooring when I first got into business. It was a huge mistake. Flooring has to be perfect, especially todayís flooring. The milling is near flawless. Add to that the moisture has to also be perfect and if itís installed and something goes wrong, itís a total disaster. Running moulding IMO is a much easier and more profitable process.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline Darrel

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2017, 10:17:13 PM »
Longtime lurker has the right answer. I've run moulders for 17 + years, and the best is Weinig. It sounds as though the 22N would meet your needs. Check out our sponsor, Sawmill Exchange in the column on the left. When I checked a week or so ago, they had a 22N listed for well under what you have budgeted.  With the savings (amount under budget) you could pay for dust extraction and a bit of tooling.
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Offline tmbrcruiser

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2017, 06:53:17 PM »
Thank you for the advise on Weinig and SCM. I looked at the machine listed on Sawmill Exchange and that machine is line shaft ready. I think I understand the term so please correct me if I am wrong. Line shaft ready describes a machine run from one central power source. ???? If so this would not be practical for me. I found several machines from both of the recommended companies. What would your opinion on the models as follows - Weinig U23 E, Weing Profmat 26S Super, Weinig Unimat Gold X6K6, Weinig Variomat, SCM Compact XL Composition 50, SCMI Compact XL, and finally SCMI Superset 23? Hope this explains my confusion with this list being only a small sampling of models available. The machines listed are 5 spindle and have the power needs that I can supply.

Thank you to everyone for your input.
Once you get sap in your veins, you will always have sawdust in your pockets.

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2017, 09:02:36 PM »
Yup, that's the basics of lineshaft.

For a big machine, I personally like lineshaft because I only have single phase with limited amperage, but have several tractors I can use to drive a lineshaft.  Of course, the same thing could be accomplished with a 3 phase generator...
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline Darrel

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2017, 09:05:57 AM »
The 22N that I operated for P&M Cedar (supplier of cedar for Ticonderoga pencils) had 5 spindles.  The first was a bottom head that basically performed the function of a jointer, making the bottom of rough lumber flat and increasing accuracy of the following spindles. Some 5 spindle moulders will have a first and second right head with the first right acting as a jointer.  So on a 5 spindle moulder, think about the stock you'll be running through it and what would be better to flatten/straighten, a face or an edge.

The modles you mention, I'm not familiar with so I'm probably not qualified to say much about them but I'm sure that all would do the job you need done so it is more a matter of budget and what would best meet your needs.
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Offline lewis

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 08:38:07 PM »
Last jan. I bought a weineg 23E 6 head machine, I am just getting it ready to use, I paid 19000 with 4 wide heads and 6 side heads, getting the shavings out has been the hold up, you need to have 1000 cfm per head, I used a 14" blower and pipe, as I scrounge every thing it has taken me a while, and cost a lot more than I thought, but I knew a fella that had a planing mill and he advised me to stay away from Wadkins I dont know why,anyway I am happy with the 23E, 

Offline tmbrcruiser

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 10:07:01 AM »
Finally found a moulder, Weinig Profimat 23E Select 5 head. Wired out the funds yesterday and should get a delivery date soon. I have learned the cost of the moulder is the tip of the iceburg. Tooling, electrical connection and dust removal will cost as much as the machine. The 1000 cfm per head sound in line with the advice I have been given. How long of a run do you have from the moulder to the shavings bin? I would like to run into an outside bay, which is about 40'. Will run the piping to other pieces of equipment also. Will be interesting pulling 5,000 cfm for the moulder then shutting that blast gate and operating the planner, joiner or other equipment with that amount of suction.
Once you get sap in your veins, you will always have sawdust in your pockets.

Offline Darrel

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 11:29:34 AM »
Congratulations on your moulder purchase. You will find that this machine will have a high through put.  As I recall, somewhere in the neighborhood of 180' per minute top end. As far as dust collection is concerned, the 5,000 cfm should be adequate for the moulder, but when you close the blast gate to the moulder and route the suction to other machines, you may need to have the blast gates to several machines open in order to have enough volume of air flow in the main line to keep sawdust, chips etc moving.
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Offline tmbrcruiser

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Re: picking a moulder planner
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 07:16:11 PM »
Thank you for the suggestion to open other gates. The information I received from the dealer quotes a variable feed rate of 20 - 78 FPM. Considering I've no experience with a moulder I have contacted a company that is willing to service the machine and the tec will also train me to operate the machine. Very excited to get this next piece of the shop in place.
Once you get sap in your veins, you will always have sawdust in your pockets.


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