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Author Topic: Planning stage of new bandmill build  (Read 1710 times)

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Offline rrleesb

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Planning stage of new bandmill build
« on: December 18, 2017, 09:35:10 PM »
Hi all,

Almost retired Navy man here.  I am kinda  a jack of all trades, but I really enjoy building machines and fabrication.  I have a friend, that lives a few hours away, that has WM LT40 hydraulic.  I've cut quite a bit of wood with him as the guy that pulls the boards off and gets new logs ready.  It's something that I enjoy and could save me some bucks on projects.  I also enjoy timberframing and would like to do more of it.  Building a sawmill will help me accomplish some of those goals.

So, I'm in the planning stages of a sawmill build.  I think I'm going to build a Linn style mill.  I'm going to lay out some of what I'm thinking, feel free to give advise where necessary.  I also have a few questions so take a shot if you have some good info.

My plan is to make it mobile from the start.  The main beams 2x6 3/16 x 24'.  Put a 2x3 3/16 cross beam every 30".  On top of the cross beams put an adjustable 2x2 1/4" bunk similar to the WM decks. I plan to add hydraulics later so I thought the stiff deck was a necessity.  The Linn plan calls for a sharp dog vice just a stop for the cant stops, opinions?  For the carriage rollers are the v pulleys or the u pulleys more effective?

I have a 22hp Predator engine.  It has a 1" shaft.  What should I use for a clutch?  Twin Sheave?  The Linn site lists centrifugal clutch with a 2 sheave 4" but it's a 1 1/8" shaft.  Is there a bushing I can use? 

As far as hydraulics go.  An engine driven pump?  What type and displacement?  Flow?  With the 2 sheave clutch, will I need to run a jackshaft to get another sheave?  Electric over hydraulic?  I would still need a sheave to run an alternator wouldn't I?

Any reason to get wheels larger than the 19" ? What benefits are there to using the 21 or 26" wheels?  Sheaves or the Cooks wheels?

Thanks for all the input!
Ryan




Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 10:55:02 PM »
Buy on E-bay. They come with an oversize key.

 

 
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2017, 07:39:08 AM »
Sounds exactly like my build I am in the middle of. If you call Linn Lumber they can get you the 1" ID clutch. that is the route I went. It is the same cost either way.

here is the link to my build. It may help you with yours. Good luck and keep updates coming.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,97853.msg1511008.html#msg1511008

I have really enjoyed building mine. Now I just need to get back out there and do some more.
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 07:39:41 AM »
KBeitz, thanx for posting that. I did not know those existed.
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 09:03:07 AM »
KBeitz, thanx for posting that. I did not know those existed.

There is a better one that has the key in the bushing but they cost more.

 

 
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 09:45:01 AM »
rrleesb -

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service.  As far as hydraulics go, with only 22hp I would look at electric over hydraulic so you don't rob too much from your band energy.  You won't be using the hydraulics all the time so there is no sense in spending energy to pump fluid all the time.   
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Offline rrleesb

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 09:59:11 AM »
rrleesb -

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service.  As far as hydraulics go, with only 22hp I would look at electric over hydraulic so you don't rob too much from your band energy.  You won't be using the hydraulics all the time so there is no sense in spending energy to pump fluid all the time.   

If that's the case, is there a recommended powerpack or pump?  Estimated GPM to look for?  So i'd need to setup an alternator.... 60A?

Offline Crossroads

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 10:25:29 AM »
When I put hydraulics on my old lt30, I used a 6.5 predator engine to run them with a 3-11 gpm 2 stage pump. It worked great at just over a high idle, but in hind sight, I could have used a smaller pump.
2017 LT40 wide, Kubota l185dt, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummings,

Offline Georgia088

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 11:02:15 AM »
Just curious. How many/far apart are you planning to put your jacks to support the bunk when you are sawing? 

Offline rrleesb

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 11:06:30 AM »
Just curious. How many/far apart are you planning to put your jacks to support the bunk when you are sawing?

I was planning on putting 6 jacks in, 3 on each side.  2 close to the ends, 2 in the middle, and 2 at the other end.

Online starmac

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 12:32:40 PM »
Just a thought, but I would do some checking and see if an electric clutch is available that would work.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 01:16:54 PM »
Why do you need a clutch ? Just something else to break. Go look at you buddies lt40. Cheap, simple and proven. Hydraulics... do a forum search "home made hydraulics" everything but a log loader. 3-4 gpm pump should be adequate. I tried the dual stage log splitter pump also...don't...I've built 3 of these, I'm fixed, so I use a 3hp electric motor. I know of a couple that were built using a 5hp vertical shaft lawn mower engine to power the pump..
Bandwheel size... It's a big compromise. Build it to use a standard off-the shelf blade length.
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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 03:30:50 PM »
I think an electric clutch, similar to the auto clutches available on the LT 40 would be a huge improvement over my older LT40.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline Crossroads

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 03:46:10 PM »
I think an electric clutch, similar to the auto clutches available on the LT 40 would be a huge improvement over my older LT40.

I must admit, I really like the auto clutch....
2017 LT40 wide, Kubota l185dt, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummings,

Offline rrleesb

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2017, 07:07:51 PM »
Yall are great BTW!  Thanks for all the input so far.

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2017, 07:23:00 PM »
As far as what size wheels to use, I would want it to fit standard bands which ever way you want to accomplish it because of the cost of bands. That said I would probably go with the new bands for the wide cuts, as I understand the cost difference is minimal, and everybody will be making them.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2017, 08:03:58 PM »
I myself have a shoulder that bothers me. There is no way I would or could move a motor,to engage it. Just the reaching part would bother me. I don't do drive thru. The reaching hurts me. I drop a money bag off at night. I get out of my truck to do it. I have one of those clutches,on my sawmill,like a chainsaw clutch. Can't spell it,just press the thottle.
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Offline rrleesb

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2017, 08:09:42 PM »
I got a quote today from BLM for a 3 sheave centrifugal clutch. It was almost $500. Needless to say Ill be fabricating some sort of belt tensioning device. 

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2017, 08:11:52 PM »
Use the biggest band wheels you can afford. Absolutely bigger is better.
I a HUGE fan of the hyd pump being engine driven, if you aren't going to have hyd feed and up/down you could use a pump with a 12v clutch on it like what they put on trucks with hay beds or dump beds.
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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2017, 08:16:25 PM »
centrifugal clutch,so that's how you spell that. Man that seem high,real high.  :o 
Thomas Bandsaw is what I have. That is one of the reason I bought it. No way I could saw without a centrifulgal clutch. They have one on all thier mills,I think.
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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2017, 08:34:17 PM »
So, what is wrong with an electric clutch, same switch could activate the throttle.
I like the idea of the hydraulic pump with an electric clutch too, except you would have a mess with hydraulic lines running back and forth with the head, that would be a pita.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline Georgia088

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2017, 10:59:18 PM »
would it be possible to use a centrifugal clutch off of something else? I used a golf cart to build my sawmill. Could you find an old golf cart? They make a tapered adapter for 1" shafts. Or, if you wanted to go electric, could you use a clutch off of a lawn mower. There are several that have electric clutches to engage the blade... maybe I'm missing something, but just a thought.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2017, 06:11:35 AM »
You could just tilt you engine to tighten the belt for a simple clutch...
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Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2017, 08:42:14 AM »
Could use a linear actuator or hydraulic cylinder if you are using hydraulics or small winch/ gear motor to tension belt(s). Perhaps a spring in the system would prevent over tensioning.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2017, 09:36:20 AM »
The clutch I purchased through linn lumber was $310. that was for the 1" shaft. it is 2 pulley clutch. I am using the same 22 hp predator you are talking about. So far seems to work well but I have not cut anything yet.
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Offline rrleesb

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2017, 11:35:48 AM »
V groove rollers or U groove for the carriage?  I have looked at Cooks and the Linn site and they are both about $55 bucks each.  There must be a better option.  What should I be searching for?  Ebay?

I'm getting ready to put my steel order in so I'd like to nail down a plan.

Offline ktm250rider

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2017, 04:01:51 PM »
i found V-Groove Castors on ebay for about 40 bucks for 4.  They are a little over 2 inches wide so i had to change my mounting plan.  Otherwise the wheels would have hit my back stops.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2017, 05:13:03 PM »
E-bay...  Search

3"Inch Steel V Groove Wheel Driveway Gate Wheel Single Bearing Slide Gate 2 PCS

$26.00
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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2017, 06:31:35 PM »
I ended up ordering from linn when I decided not to use angle for the rails. My thought was if I drop something on the point of the angle it will bulge out both side and create a bump in the track. That is why I chose the 3/8" with linn rollers.

If only I had a lathe. I would have found the bearings I liked and made my own wheels. Turning 4 wheels at work takes a little to much time.
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Offline rrleesb

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2017, 03:10:46 PM »
Ok, got some basic plans drawn up.   How does this look?  It's an adjustable bunk using a fine thread 3/4" bolt into a welded in nut on the bottom side.

24' x 4' flat top area of trailer and the about 30" forward for the trailer hitch


Bunk detail


Attaching bracket


Any issues you can see with the above plan?


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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2017, 04:22:33 PM »
Some questions...

Are the side pieces for your track/frame 2x5?  What wall thickness?  I would recommend no less than 3/16" with 1/4" being much better (just heavy).  What is the spacing on your bunks?  They look too close together.  I've found that you need between 5 and 7 feet between bunks to allow for logs with sweeps - makes it easier to level them.  I did movable bunks so I can have anywhere from 2' on up if I get short stuff. 

Are you trying to show that you will have two straps (each end) on your adjustable bunks with a bolt going through to tighten up when you have them set?  I'm not sure if there is much benefit there with the adjustable.  Your track MUST be absolutely flat and the bunks just need to be all the same height - if not a flat track but you adjust your bunks to be flat, your boards will come out bad.  Also, are your adjustable bunk bars 2"?  The first time you drop a 4,000# log on them, it might bend with that very long span between supports (bolts).

Is that a piece of flat bar on the left that will act as the rail for you head (v-groove wheels?)?  Make sure there is sufficient space for sawdust to get out of the way.  I have my head riding on the edge of 1/4" angle and the sawdust still manages to pack into the v-grooves!   I need to install track wipers.

Sorry to sound negative.  Just trying to help you head off potential problems.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2017, 05:47:33 PM »
I agree with ljohnsaw.

The one thing I would change is the tongue. if you are having to walk around the front of the mill a lot you will not like the tongue sticking out. I made mine with a receiver tube that can remove the tongue so I can remove it. This serves 2 purposes. first, I can take it off and have it completely out of the way so I do not have to walk around it or constantly tag my knees on it. Second makes it much harder for a would be thief to borrow it when the tongue is in my truck and going home with me.

I will post pics when I get them uploaded. I just finished it today.
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Offline rrleesb

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2017, 07:50:24 PM »
Some questions...

Are the side pieces for your track/frame 2x5?  What wall thickness?  I would recommend no less than 3/16" with 1/4" being much better (just heavy).  What is the spacing on your bunks?  They look too close together.  I've found that you need between 5 and 7 feet between bunks to allow for logs with sweeps - makes it easier to level them.  I did movable bunks so I can have anywhere from 2' on up if I get short stuff. 

Are you trying to show that you will have two straps (each end) on your adjustable bunks with a bolt going through to tighten up when you have them set?  I'm not sure if there is much benefit there with the adjustable.  Your track MUST be absolutely flat and the bunks just need to be all the same height - if not a flat track but you adjust your bunks to be flat, your boards will come out bad.  Also, are your adjustable bunk bars 2"?  The first time you drop a 4,000# log on them, it might bend with that very long span between supports (bolts).

Is that a piece of flat bar on the left that will act as the rail for you head (v-groove wheels?)?  Make sure there is sufficient space for sawdust to get out of the way.  I have my head riding on the edge of 1/4" angle and the sawdust still manages to pack into the v-grooves!   I need to install track wipers.

Sorry to sound negative.  Just trying to help you head off potential problems.

No problems sounding negative, I was soliciting advise and I take it as such.

The rails will be 2x6 3/16" wall, and the cross members will be 2x4 3/16".  The top bunks will be 2x2 1/4" wall.  I had laid out a 30" spacing for the bunks.  Too close?  I'll space them out further if need be.  Should I leave a few bunks closer together?

The flat bar is the same setup that  Crusarius is using with a U groove roller.  Like what Linn Sawmills sells.

Offline rrleesb

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2017, 07:51:55 PM »

The one thing I would change is the tongue. if you are having to walk around the front of the mill a lot you will not like the tongue sticking out. I made mine with a receiver tube that can remove the tongue so I can remove it. This serves 2 purposes. first, I can take it off and have it completely out of the way so I do not have to walk around it or constantly tag my knees on it. Second makes it much harder for a would be thief to borrow it when the tongue is in my truck and going home with me.


Is a receiver style tube stout enough for a heavy sawmill or to haul logs?

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2017, 02:07:49 AM »
No problems sounding negative, I was soliciting advise and I take it as such.

The rails will be 2x6 3/16" wall, and the cross members will be 2x4 3/16".  The top bunks will be 2x2 1/4" wall.  I had laid out a 30" spacing for the bunks.  Too close?  I'll space them out further if need be.  Should I leave a few bunks closer together?

The flat bar is the same setup that  Crusarius is using with a U groove roller.  Like what Linn Sawmills sells.

You should have a space to be able to take short logs - perhaps 30 to 36".  IMO, the rest should be no closer than 4' and 6' is not too far apart.

I just wanted to make sure you were NOT using a flat roller on the flat face of the 2x6.  How will you attach it?  Bolts so you don't warp it with welding?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2017, 10:43:53 AM »
Does Woodmizer not use an adjustable bunk setup?  I was just trying to copy a successful design.


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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2017, 10:48:53 AM »
Yes they are adjustable and after 15 years of sawing mine have never needed "re-adjusting".   :)
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2017, 11:36:36 PM »

The one thing I would change is the tongue. if you are having to walk around the front of the mill a lot you will not like the tongue sticking out. I made mine with a receiver tube that can remove the tongue so I can remove it. This serves 2 purposes. first, I can take it off and have it completely out of the way so I do not have to walk around it or constantly tag my knees on it. Second makes it much harder for a would be thief to borrow it when the tongue is in my truck and going home with me.


Is a receiver style tube stout enough for a heavy sawmill or to haul logs?

I hope so. if not I will make it beefier but I think it will be fine the tube will be 6' long 42" sticking out.
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Offline coyotebait

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2018, 08:32:24 PM »
I agree with ljohnsaw.

The one thing I would change is the tongue. if you are having to walk around the front of the mill a lot you will not like the tongue sticking out. I made mine with a receiver tube that can remove the tongue so I can remove it. This serves 2 purposes. first, I can take it off and have it completely out of the way so I do not have to walk around it or constantly tag my knees on it. Second makes it much harder for a would be thief to borrow it when the tongue is in my truck and going home with me.

I will post pics when I get them uploaded. I just finished it today.
maybe a telescoping tongue to get it out of the way.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Planning stage of new bandmill build
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2018, 07:33:53 AM »
ooh. I like the telescoping tongue. slide it all the way in when not towing pull it back out and pin it in place for towing. To late to put that in my build but kool idea.

I knew what I thought I meant.


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