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Author Topic: tier 4 diesel ?  (Read 2696 times)

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Offline starmac

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tier 4 diesel ?
« on: December 19, 2017, 07:45:15 PM »
Does the new tier 4, epa approved diesels on the new mills have to have urea?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2017, 07:56:28 PM »
Nope, they have a dpf and a regen system. At least to my knowledge.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline starmac

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2017, 08:37:22 PM »
They do have the regen exhaust, sheesh.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 09:14:02 PM »
Yeah, I know ::) ::) ::)  I won't have one.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline starmac

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 09:20:14 PM »
Yep, it works well enough to have caused the companies with huge fleets of pickups to go back to gas, after years of you couldn't give them a gas rig. Individuals that have bought diesels in the last few years have either deleted them or traded back to gas.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 09:36:16 PM »
Yup, not for me. Give me a mechanical injector pump and lift pump and a couple of wires running to a keyswitch and starter and I'm good.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 09:52:21 PM »
I have to think there is a delete kit out there for it, or someone could tune it to disable the regen. 
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Offline FloridaMike

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 10:34:51 PM »
I have a 2016 Ford F450 and a 2017 JD 5065 67hp 4x4 tractor, both with tier 4 regen.  Def fluid on the p/u and not on the tractor.  Neither one has given me the first bit of trouble.  The Ford 6.7L runs 5X times better than the 6.0L non-def/regen it replaced.

Sometimes we worry about change for the sake of standing on what we are use to having.  I remember thinking in 1973-74 that fun muscle cars were dead.  We now have cars (and trucks) available with twice the hp/torque/fuel milage and 1/2 the emissions.  Technology may be hard to get wrapped around as a warm and fuzzy experience... but the last 50 year track record is pretty good.     

Offline Southside logger

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 10:56:16 PM »
Umm - Not to pick on you just about anything runs better than a Ford 6.0, that was not their best moment.  Personally it's not the change, but the additional upfront and then constant maintenance expense these tier 4 engines bring with them. 
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Offline starmac

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 11:01:16 PM »
FloridaMike, headnorth and see how it works for you.

Believe me, the oil companies did not decide to replace a few THOUSAND pickups and go to gas (which they don't like) because they were working out for them. lol
My son has 2 new dodges, one would not run the first winter, the other gave no trouble. He waited until he was leaving to pull the 38 foot fifth wheel to Texas before he deleted the one, but did it for the difference in mileage.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 08:26:52 PM »
I never have figgered out how they think a motor that uses more fuel than the one it replaced is more efficient?

My truck is 21yo has 266k mi and runs like new, it gets 17 mpg with 4.10 gears.( it got 20+ before the 5spd swap) My bosses truck is 1yo has 30k mi on it and gets 11-13mpg. more efficient?  How?
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline Flyingpig

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2017, 10:43:56 PM »
Tier 4 final is DPF and SCR. I've been in a few service trucks with 6.7 fords, trust me once deleted it's a whole different animal. 2x the mileage, turbos last, and they really wake up. The emissions control garbage really chokes a Diesel engine up, its like running it with an exhaust brake on all the time.

Offline ToddsPoint

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2017, 05:29:26 AM »
I have a tier 4 Kubota tractor.  No problems so far.  How do you "delete" the regen feature?  Is it possible on my Kubota L3901?  Just curious.  Gary
Logosol M7, Stihl 660 and 290, Kubota L3901.

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2017, 11:30:02 AM »
It's not about efficiency, it's about pollution. The final tiers seem to have a return inversely proportional to the cost of the systems , and the reduction in economy.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 12:03:10 PM »
Can someone explain what DPF is and what regen is so I can understand this thread?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2017, 12:06:22 PM »
I have a new mahindra 3540 with teir 4
I like the tractor but burns 3x the fuel my last tractor used :(
You have to run it at a much higher rpm so it stays hot
thomas 8013 mill ,Mahindra 3540 cab tractor loader  Dump trailer  and lot of contracting tools

Offline Grizzly

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2017, 12:08:24 PM »
DPF = Diesel Particulate Filter
Regen = Is just to burn out the DPF which can also put some older vehicles into a lower power mode. Newer ones have better programming.
EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation

So far i have found shops that will do full delete's, partial delete's, and programmed delete's on any piece of equipment known. Some farm guys are already getting carried away on their 4wd tractors seeing what hp they can get.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2017, 12:22:46 PM »
Thanks.

Sounds like I have a pretty good engine on my 2001 LT40Super,  42HP Kubota diesel, Turbo. 

And on my truck, 2001 7.3L PSD.

Jan 19, 2001 was a good day.

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2017, 05:56:22 PM »
Your truck has an EGR at the most - meaning it "recirculates" some of the exhaust gas back into the intake.  Those can vanish as well.  Google images of what the inside of a typical EGR valve looks like and tell me if you want that oozing into your engine.  One thing to keep an eye on is the fact that they often develop corrosion in them and allow coolant to leak into the intake, which in your case is the compressor side of the turbo.  The 6.0's were plagued with that. 

The DPF units require periodic cleaning, and it's not something you can do at home, the service interval is supposed to be longer these days than at first, but what I have seen is that they simply regen more often.  Which uses more fuel as there is a 9th injector into the DPF unit where fuel is directly injected to burn off all the soot the filter catches. 

I can't imagine a regen cycle happening on a mill engine with all the sawdust flying around and on the surfaces, that is a disaster waiting to happen. 
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Offline brianJ

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2017, 12:50:03 PM »
How does EGR exhaust gas return have anything to do with coolant loss.   

 :P :P Got a lot to learn

Offline dgdrls

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2017, 01:23:08 PM »
How does EGR exhaust gas return have anything to do with coolant loss.   

 :P :P Got a lot to learn

some exhaust gas is recirculated (EGR) to the intake system chamber/manifold via a "cooler".  Coolant/antifreeze  system is plumbed into the system to cool the gasses before they re-enter the motor.  If the EGR cooler fails you have lost the closed circuit of the coolant/antifreeze system.

 D

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2017, 09:36:58 AM »
To my knowledge,  the 7.3's never had an egr. All 6.0 (junk) did.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2017, 09:57:56 AM »
Yup, not for me. Give me a mechanical injector pump and lift pump and a couple of wires running to a keyswitch and starter and I'm good.

Then you better ditch the PSD. No injector pump or anything mechanical about it. Ha :D


Correct no EGR on the 7.3`s

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2017, 12:26:39 PM »
I think we have slowly been moving away from reliability ever since we stopped using steam. :D
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Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2017, 07:05:41 PM »
Yup, not for me. Give me a mechanical injector pump and lift pump and a couple of wires running to a keyswitch and starter and I'm good.

Then you better ditch the PSD. No injector pump or anything mechanical about it. Ha :D


Correct no EGR on the 7.3`s

Yeah I know,  been seriously considering building a 6.9/7.3 hybrid with a banks or sidewinder turbo. And while I'm at it might as well put on a gear vendors o/d unit too.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2017, 09:16:36 PM »
I had a 6.9 with lowered compression, head studs, ats turbo, intercooler, zf 5 speed, worked over pump and it still wasn't as stout as my 7.3psd that had stacked tuners, and an exhaust......

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2017, 09:27:00 PM »
What tuners you runnin? I'm runnin an edge programmer set on the lowest settin (60hp) no pyro so I just keep it there. Also I've got a full 3" down pipe and no cat, still have muffler not a stock but a straight thru.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2017, 09:52:56 PM »
And older bully dog plug in box and an outlook tuner. I have a 4" downpipe and full exhaust, full set of gauges, cold air intake, added "helper" fuel pump, heavy duty clutch and rebuilt zf6, 4.10 gears and 250k miles of hard living. Ha

I run on the 100hp run and just watch my egts and boost when towing heavy.

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2017, 10:13:53 PM »
Super duty. You told that when you said 4in dp and zf6. Possible in a obs but a royal pain.

Also I'm runnin a Luk smf clutch and a zf5 with 4.10 gears limited slip in rear. 55mph ar 1950rpm.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline brianb88

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2017, 10:23:43 PM »
I have a 2007 Chevy Duramax with complete delete of the emissions control. I installed an EFI live tuner/with a 5 position switch that is adjustable from stock HP (position 1) to adding 200 HP(position 5) according the book. I have never run it in the 5th position(highest). I haven't had any problems with mine so far and I've got 160000+ miles on it. I'm not into racing trucks or even running mine hard, but this truck will get some yonder if you step on it.

I would be hesitant to buy another diesel with all the emission controls on them now.
Measure twice, cut once

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2017, 12:05:56 AM »
I have a 2007 Chevy Duramax with complete delete of the emissions control.

LBZ - the cats meow of any diesel engine out there.  My '06 has over 400,000 on it now, 95% towing a goose neck, and she still gets 20 mpg on the highway, as long as I keep my foot out of it.  EFI Live installed by Idaho Rob himself, I had him put a "valet" tune on #5 as I did not see any reason to intentionally destroy my transmission. 
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Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2017, 11:01:55 AM »
Did they get the injector problems fixed on the lbz?
I've seen several older duramax that needed injectors about every 100k.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline scully

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2017, 11:10:00 AM »
Tier 4 is a disaster . My 2014 RAM will be getting a full delete I am not putting up with this crap .
I bleed orange  .

Offline Southside logger

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2017, 02:55:00 PM »
Did they get the injector problems fixed on the lbz?
I've seen several older duramax that needed injectors about every 100k.

LBZ never had an injector problem, mine are original.  The LB7 - 1st generation, was an issue as the injectors were under the valve cover - not a good plan at all. 
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Offline JB Griffin

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2017, 09:41:45 PM »
The one with problems were 01-04 or there bouts that I saw. So Lb7's I guess.  I'm a Ford guy, but those lb7 can get seriously impressive milage the best I saw was 25hwy. :o that was in a 2500hd 4x4.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.8 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2017, 09:53:40 PM »
Yea, the LLY came out in late '04 I think, they had some overheating issues as some of the coolant passages were too small and they may have had some injector issues at first too, I really don't remember, but the LB7's  are the ones that had the majority of the injector problems, the aftermarket injectors solved the issue finally. 

Funny thing was when I bought this truck I went to the Ford dealer as I was peeved at GM over the whole Government Motors issue, I told them what I needed and that I was looking for a truck now.  The guys response was to "come back in a couple of weeks and look around".  So I literally drove across the street to the Chevy dealer and there was this '06 sitting there complete with the LBZ.  Made the deal and when leaving I drove back over to the Ford dealer, walked in to the sales guys office and asked him if he remembered me from earlier in the day, I then pointed to the dually parked in front of his big window and promptly walked out.   
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Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2017, 06:34:51 AM »
Got Tier4 on my Kubota tractor and my Chevy truck. Hate it on both.

The tractor keeps track of the particulate filter and then goes into Regen mode to burn it off. You can delay it, but it becomes more and more persistent and cuts power.

Truck does it kinda transparently but smells like it's on fire when it does a regen.

I will delete both as soon as I figure it out. Not only is it a PITA, but the joys of having diesel is rolling some coal when you want (need) to.  8)



I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Baker Portable Edger with Kubota Diesel
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln

Offline starmac

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2017, 03:25:33 PM »
Under what conditions would a guy need to roll coal??
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2017, 05:18:31 PM »
That video is not even funny... Stupid kids...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Offline Grizzly

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2017, 05:23:01 PM »
I can't view the video but some of us old truckers have some appreciation for seeing some coal roll. It just does something for the blood/diesel mixture. But if that video was of a pickup truck then it has nothing to do with what an old trucker does. An old cat grunting a little at 1300rpm to top a hill is different than what some of these blokes do with a little pick up truck.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws - 2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2017, 08:33:09 AM »
Hmmm. Good conditions for "rolling coal":

-Electric car next to you at traffic light.
-Honda that sounds like an Uzi shooting at a gong is trying to race you.
-You are leaving the local meet up and all your truck friends are there.
-The filling station is backed-up and you can't get fuel, so leave angry.
-You are pulling 7 tons of logs up a hill and the minivan following  pulls out crossing yellow to pass.
-Your neighbor stops and stares as you drive up your lane.


Many others that aren't immediately coming to mind.  :D
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Baker Portable Edger with Kubota Diesel
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln

Offline starmac

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Re: tier 4 diesel ?
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2017, 10:37:24 PM »
Ha ha  Grizzly the old b model in my log truck will roll out the black smoke, but I generally keep it from it.
The little pickups is one of the major reasons we even have such a thing as tier 4 engines.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.


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