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Author Topic: Logging equipment  (Read 5079 times)

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Offline dirthawger

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Logging equipment
« on: December 20, 2017, 11:08:39 PM »
I just started my first logging job but Im doing it with my tractor. Everything i make on this job will go to buying some attachments to make it somewhat effecient. But im going to sell my stump grinder so i can get some actual logging equipment.  This will probably be a loaded question but im asking what some of y'all would say are must haves to make an honest go at it.

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2017, 11:39:28 PM »
Every area is different and has different needs, so I sure can't help answer, but am thinking this will be an interesting thread.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2017, 11:41:30 PM »
yea i reckon it will be haha, i was thinking skidder and feller buncher, i dunno

Online Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2017, 11:48:31 PM »
Is there any niche work in your area or anything you'd like to do?

Offline barbender

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2017, 11:50:21 PM »
You can always buy bigger, better, faster equipment to put up a pile of wood, the real challenge is making sure you can sell all the wood you produce at a profit.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2017, 12:11:27 AM »
Was your stump grinder a full time gig or a sideline?

Is this logging going to be full time or a sideline job?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline celliott

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2017, 05:08:46 AM »
Tractors are nice because they can do a lot of different things, very versatile equipment. They do have their drawbacks for logging though. Tires and unprotected hoses belly pans compartments being one of the biggest. You just cannot beat a dedicated forestry machine for logging. A Skidder is designed to do one thing, pull wood, and theyre very good at it.

I guess you probably need to decide what you want to do. Full time logging, probably best to get a Skidder or other forestry machine. If the logging is just a once in awhile gig and you can use the tractor for hire to do other things there are some very good tractor options in the way of winches, grapples, and forwarding trailers that can be very productive, although youd likely want to also invest in tire chains, skid plates, etc.
Chris Elliott

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Offline shinnlinger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2017, 06:38:53 AM »
It seems around here its tough to get anyone to log a lot less than 50 acres due to the size and expense of feller bunchers/forwarders and what not.    If that is the case where you live, I would focus on the small(er) lot folks and being neat and tidy,  Some folks just want some trails and are willing to pay for a nice job.  I have a 34 horse CUT that obviously I don't production log with but it does sneak around the trees well and keeps the wife happy by not tearing everything up.  My point is there is the potential for a happy medium and with the right marketing and service you could fill it.
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2017, 06:44:09 AM »
I see your in the south. I'm sure most of the loggibg it conventional tree length. If I were your I buy a cable skidder with some fat tires. There cheap to buy and one man hand cutting can still put a pile of wood out. Then a knuckleboom for your landing will double your production. And they can also be found cheap. Unless your cutting 40+ cord a day I'd hold off on a feller.

Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2017, 07:31:30 AM »
Right now the logging is part time on my days off and i work 15 days a month at my current job so its more than weekends, but the dream is to one day go fulltime. Well we are focusing on small lots right now, this one is 1/4 acre, haha. We gotta start somewhere. Yea a cable skidder would be awesome but with a grapple would be nice. Ive heard of this knuckleboom but I've googled it and they only show me pictures of bucket trucks. Yea im getting grapple for the front of my tractor but which one for the back, farmi winch or grapple? Stump grinding was a side gig but i pay $600 a month on that rig and could probably buy some decent logging equipment for that

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2017, 08:38:22 AM »
You are posting about buying equipment for a tractor from what I read.
How many hp? I suppose 4wd drive?
I myself would say a winch. You can run cable out to get to a log without having to drive up to it. Yes,it would take longer, but make for a much better looking job. And if there is a lot of small trees,no road to be cut to get to the logs. And if running many slides,more than one small log can be winched into the tractor.
You really should protect those valve stems. But the tires have to come off the rims to weld on them.
A forwarder trailer would really do it!!!
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2017, 08:54:16 AM »
Well yea id like opinions on which would be better for my 3pt a grapple or farmi winch. But id really like more info on actual logging equipment. I plan on using my tractor until i get enough money for some logging equipment.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2017, 08:58:15 AM »
You might find a market for small scale logging. Does not pay to move big equipment to do a small job.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2017, 09:09:32 AM »
Go drive to all the mills and get price sheets. 

You will generate 10x more low grade than high grade wood out of any yard you get into and need a market for it.  Can you even sell firewood in louisiana?  Firewood prices, pulp prices and tie log prices are critical to unload all the low grade.    In yards, its pretty likely the nicest trees will contain iron.  Mills will turn you away if you get a reputation for iron strikes.


Im not trying to pick on you, but your very basic questions make It sound like a bucket truck is what you should be buying.  The condition of trees and the rate you can remove them is almost irrelevant in tree removal on a charge basis.. Yer gonna get paid.   With logging the quality if the trees and rate you can move them is critical. 

Tree removals will give you logs, and you need logs to learn the market ropes.  A logger buys logs.  A tree removal contractor charges for them.  Start on the easy side and transition over to the harder one imo.
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Online Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 09:26:54 AM »
If you decide to log start looking into CTL two guys or heck just yourself with a combination machine that does everything from cutting, yarding, to loading trucks. We run a two man CTL operation in the PNW the nice thing is you run on slash, everyone is off the ground, and insurance costs are much lower, production hand falling on good ground is a losing all day everyday with a grapple skidder.

Have you spent any time on a logging side before? If not the best way to learn is to work on one for a while. Then my only other thing I could think of is to contract cut for a company even up here that's super common a good way to get started.

Offline kiko

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2017, 09:54:53 AM »
Not to discourage, but decent logging equipment is not available for six hundred a month.

Offline Bogue Chitto

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2017, 10:18:13 AM »
I don't do much logging, but did a lot with a tractor after hurricane Katrina.  Logging with a tractor is hard on it.  I put a lot of damage on on my John Deere.  If you can put a forestry package around it. 

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2017, 01:55:09 PM »
Are you planning on having trucks with self loaders come in and haul your logs, or are you going to need a way to load them, if so some type of log loader would be a high priority I would think If you are hiring trucks, it needs to be substantial to load them in a timely manner, or you will have trouble getting and keeping a trucker interested.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2017, 02:36:15 PM »
How much equipment can you afford to move in for a 1/4 acre job. I know every where is different and log prices vary do to type and location, but around here 1/4 acre would not pay to even move the basic must have in.

I hauled for some small outfits. The most efficient one, shovel logged. The only equipment he had was a shovel (large one) and a 650 john deere dozer with a logging package.
Him and one more guy could easily load out 2 loads a day 5 days a week. This was pulp, this was clear cutting, and at temps averaging below zero, change any of those three things and it would have slowed his production considerably.
I hauled for another guy that had only a blade runner excavator with a thumb and a saw period. He could with a lot of effort get a load of saw logs out a day. He was contract cutting for the mill, and they had built the roads for him, or at the minimum, he would have also had to have a dozer. His excavator was barely adequate to unload my trailer, infact he finally dropped it and it cost him his profits for a few days or a week.
The mill he was working for let him limb with the excavator, any other mill would have probably have cut his production in half, as it was he went belly up  during the second season anyway.

There is another guy that seems to be pretty successful, with minimal equipment. He hand cuts uses a bobcat to skid and load on a small single axle truck with bunks and a dump on it. he has a feller hired and another guy that limbs and tops and just does firewood, either delivering in 16 feet lengths, or hauling them to his own yard where he has a processor and sells processed firewood. He also has a 450 JD dozer he uses.

All of these guys have minimum  move in costs, because they do not use a lot of equipment, and they log big enough parcels to be on the same cut for 2 to 4 years between moves.

So as you can see, there are a lot of variables and ways to profit without a lot of equipment, you just have to find what will work for you.

If your stump grinder is paying it's own way and putting some bucks in your pocket, I would think hard before selling it, I know grinding stumps pays more here than small time logging for the hours put in by far.
These were both old time experienced loggers
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2017, 04:14:32 PM »
Loggers get paid on production, and production with small gear on small lots is hard to get for a whole lot of reasons. I would be trying to get paid for "stand improvement", "property development" "access roads" "dam building" "clean up work" etc where you are being paid to be there to do the work and the logs are a bonus or are a deduction from the landowners bill. Thats a lot different to paying to be there to get logs out.

Whole lot of variables depending on location but I'd be thinking skid steer or small dozer or excavator in order to market the service and log on the side.

Theres a whole whack of difference between gear that pays for you and you paying for gear and i think mostly it would be a struggle trying to build a business from nothing without good timberland these days. SKidders are great for logging but pretty much useless at anything else: aint no one going to pay you to push dirt or clear vegetation with just a skidder.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2017, 05:17:50 PM »
I am curious, on jobs such as the 1/4 acre job you are currently on, do you have to do anything with the tops or cut down any unmarketable wood??
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2017, 07:09:25 PM »
If u want to full time it forget the tractor. If the wood lots your buying will alow tree length then your cheapest highest production machine using a chainsaw to fell is a cable skidder. Ctl is exspenise to buy. You need to google some of these terms and Google southern logging.

Offline luvmexfood

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2017, 07:48:12 PM »
I do some logging here on the farm using a tractor. Without a doubt a winch would be the first addition. Make sure you have a good saw. I started using what I had. An older stihl 029. Gnawed on a lot of larger trees getting them down and it was a booger to start. Last straw was when I geared up one morning, carried everything down in the woods and it would't start. Went saw shopping without a lot of money. Bought an Echo 590. What a difference. Cut a  30dbh hard maple down in less time than I would have cut the face cut with the stihl. Still not a pro saw but a good step up for part time use. If I could, I would kick my own rear for not getting a bigger saw when I started.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2017, 10:45:08 PM »
yea ill have to google CTL and slasher and southern logging. But i talked to a couple small loggers in my area and they charge the land owner 50-100 a tree to cut it down. But i was hoping to offer my sawmill service along with logging. But yes a loader is definitely a must have for me,  im hauling with my 1 ton and will need a bigger trailer cause i can only haul 5 tons but saw timber where im selling goes for $48 a ton and $22 a ton for pulp

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2017, 11:00:17 PM »
Charging a land owner per tree is the tree removal business.  Logging is paying a landowner for a tree.  Stay on the side youre on for now.. until you can grade a standing tree in winter from 50feet. 

 youve got a stump grinder and a sawmill.   a bucket truck and a chipper will complete the package and get you a lot of work.  Bring the nice logs home to your sawmill.  You can parbuckle them onto the trailer if you have to.   

Timber markets as well as the stock markets are in bubbles right now.  A downturn is overdue and when it comes a lot of outfits will go belly up.  Thats when you should consider buying into logging equipment.  Even at firesale prices, CTL harvester logging takes a CDL and $100k.  The proceeds from a typical used stump grinder might buy you a few saws. 

What model tractor do you have?  Front loader?  4wd?  3 point hitch?
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2017, 11:49:22 PM »
im hauling with my 1 ton and will need a bigger trailer cause i can only haul 5 tons but saw timber where im selling goes for $48 a ton and $22 a ton for pulp


These 4 stems...  $30



That single stem... $210




$109 load of white oak pulp, probably 40 to 50 stems



$1500 load of white oak stave.  14 logs



Note that there are 4x more stems to handle and 1/4 of the money in low grade.  Also those are prices paid at mill with no split.  Imagine sharing half your pulp money with land owner. 

I have a 2ton truck and 30 feet of flat deck thatll move 10ton of wood without breaking (not legally but itll do it)

My 1975 era logging operation can barely make $80 a day hand cutting pulp alone.  After fuel, oil leaks, saw chain and lunch, its an exhausting way to break even.  God forbid a machine breaks, which they always do.

I could make $80 a day with a lot less labor and iron just working at lowes.  And actually have health insurance without really needing it


 


The lower the grade and diameter of timber, the more critical production speed - and in a lot of ways, luck -becomes.  I really am trying to be helpful to you, not just discouraging.







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Online Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2017, 12:04:23 AM »
Man that kind of money I wouldn't start a saw for honestly our low price for 36' right now is 800 per thousand and almost a grand for decent export. Highest value timber I've cut was 1500 a thousand for poles. How do you guys make it over there?

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2017, 12:25:37 AM »
When we had a pulp market it was 50, I was hauling 30 tons, when the price dropped to 40, the loggers quit loading it and just left it in the woods. Now we have no market at all, so it stays in the woods except for what little gets hauled out for firewood.
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Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2017, 03:15:57 AM »
Even dirthawgers prices are horrible. Loggers here squeal if the pulp hits $40 a ton.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2017, 03:18:44 AM »
Cuts the mills Stumpage and they'll pay about $28 a ton to produce and truck it.

Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2017, 08:47:27 AM »
Guess i shouldve explained a tad better.  Im not looking to log like y'all do, like y'all have said what im going to do is more like tree service but i was looking for ways to be more effecient because ill still be skidding and loading logs but i think a log loader is what i need maybe even one with a slasher. Id have to quit my job and go all in to make money doing what y'all do, maybe one day but im not prepared for that yet.

Online Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2017, 09:07:05 AM »
Can I ask real quick are you mechanical? Are you planning on hauling tree length? A log loader either a knuckle boom or a full blown shovel like we run up here is only good if you can get it to the job. There's a thought a forwarder it takes the place of two machines yarding is do able as well as loading trucks.

Offline Bogue Chitto

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2017, 09:09:33 AM »
 

  

  

  John Deere tractor with logging tongs and loader.  Works well for my second job.   

Offline Bogue Chitto

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2017, 09:12:38 AM »
 

  Logs hauled out with tractor.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2017, 10:38:57 AM »
but i was looking for ways to be more effecient because ill still be skidding and loading logs


I guess the biggest distinctions between logging and tree removal other than who pays who, is gonna be 1. how far are you dragging them and 2. What is done with the tops. 

If you can leave the tops out in the woods but have to skid em pretty far,  your most efficient first step will probably be a skidder.   Loading efficiently is the next biggest challenge but if you cant get them to the truck you dont need to worry about that yet.  If you can skid fast, and its good timber, you can survive by parbuckling at first.
   A mid sized self powered knuckleboom log loader crane mounted on a trailer that can load itself and the truck its hooked to is my advice for a one piece must do all unit to get started.  This way your cousin can be driving a load to the mill while you are still skidding and sorting back at the job. Efficient use of time is critical to have made any money by dark.

 If you are in clay country i would start with a 6way dozer or drott loader as the skid machine.  Roads and drainage are critical for winter logging in southern clay.  Dozers achilles heel is speed.  Just dont go after really spread out jobs, work compact sites.  I get my trees by building ponds. Crawler loaders are slow and clumsy but cheap and strong.  Steep pulp, forget it.  But big fencerow oaks on mild terrain, yeah they can do well.  The only thing more valuable than a fat log is a long fat long.  Which is hardest to skid and load.  Thats where a crawler loader can make sense.  When one tree pays a grand.  But ya gotta be CDL to move any of this stuff.


Going back to that fork in the road.  If your customers have small lots with short distance from stump to street, and especially if tops must be cleaned up.. then a skidder isnt your best first expenditure, its a big tracked bobcat with a grapple.  Not the ideal logging machine but it is the ideal machine for a general contractor starting out and hungry to make money however it comes.    The stump grinder you have is a good component to hang onto for a while longer.

Youve not described your tractor yet.  You may have a good machine to add attachments to already.

If you dont have a CDL start thinking about it.  Logs are heavy.  You cant make good money unless you are hauling CDL weights.  There arent enough hours in the day or fuel in the tank to haul in 3 loads when it coulda been one.    If you get a CDL and hard times hit your logging operation, poof, log and dump driving jobs grow on trees.  Can be the difference between losing your equipment and keeping it.  Plus you get way more leads on cheap iron when youre in with the local crowd. A driving job can be a big springboard.  Youll learn which mills play scaling tricks before you haul your logs in. 
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Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2017, 04:57:15 PM »
As far as my tractor goes its a mahindra 4530 44 hp 4wd with FEL. Plenty strong but im not doing another job until i get a grapple for the front and back.  I also have my CDL but not sure if its still valid. My license expires next year but i haven't had a dot physical in a few years nor have i drove a big rig so i may not have it anymore.  I've been leaning towards a loader is a definite must. Right now I believe we are CTL. We cut the trees down and then cut them up 16'6".

Offline enigmaT120

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2017, 05:24:23 PM »
Man that kind of money I wouldn't start a saw for honestly our low price for 36' right now is 800 per thousand and almost a grand for decent export. Highest value timber I've cut was 1500 a thousand for poles. How do you guys make it over there?

Don't torment them...  And didn't you cut some western red cedar?  I've seen some high prices for that but I don't know who was paying them.  And I'm bummed that ODF is no longer posting the quarterly timber price averages.  Is there another site for our area's average prices?
Ed Miller
Falls City, Or

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2017, 05:43:48 PM »
If you have a cdl but have not kept your medical card up, it has been suspended, BUT, you can take a physical from a dot approved provider and register it with the dmv (the doctor can't do this) but you can do it online and get your license reinstated online.
I would make this a priority before your license expires. Hauling by the ton at the prices you have posted, I do not see a way to stay under cdl and make wages, myself. 
You can have skidders, feler bunchers, danglehead processors, log shovels, all paid for, if you can not get enough product to market, it just amounts to a bunch of iron.
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Offline chep

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2017, 06:11:09 PM »
If you are already cutting to length you should consider a smaller 6 wheel forwarder. 12 ton capacity. Move wood, and even better move brush and tops. Pile for burning or wildlife. Also can load trucks etc. In my opinion it's the most versatile logging machine out there. No bumper trees landowners love them.  Find a lowbed co that will haul it for you anywhere. Should be 300 $ per move as long as it's not to far. Find one that's not whipped for under 75k. It would set you apart big-time from skidder loggers to find the niche you are looking for
My 2 cents

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2017, 07:08:00 PM »
My setup is moving toward this:  4wd tractor with loader and grapple on front, log winch on back, and a couple few trailers that can be pulled with the tractor in the woods (receiver hitch on winch) and switched to truck on better roads.  Trailers will be pintle hitch and tounge heavy enough so they can be unhooked and rehooked without getting off the tractor using the 3 point.

I'd love to have a grapple trailer as well someday.

Versatile as I already have tractors and trucks with multiple uses.  Fewer engines to maintain and they are paid for.  Should be pretty good within a half hour of home and I only do it part time.  Plenty of properties that fit that bill for me.

I'll also add that one of the local loggers I know just bought a tracked skid steer and loves it.  He chases Walnut, veneer, and stave pretty hard though.  Low grade for him is big Sycamore or Red Oak.   ;)  He is a full time operation and does some dirt work to. 
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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2017, 12:30:44 AM »
Hey Tkehl, if I can offer any advise Id say there is a growing market for private landowners that want clean wooded areas without sending in big equipment thats going to leave ruts and a mess. Theyre willing to allow a bigger cut of the share because their goal is to have a nice woods, not necessarily make the revenue from it.
If youre properly equipped to get out a decent haul AND not scar up the property, there is a small but growing niche market for you.

If you already have the tractor, get a winch. Of course, Im going to suggest a KRPAN winch but im biased to a drum and brake system rather than a cheap sprocket and rachet system.. Next Id get a log loader. FARMA is a site sponsor, Id have a look at those. That will will allow you to fell the trees manually, skid them to the access road and pick them up and keep them out of the mud which is what portable sawmill and firewood processor guys are going to be looking for.

From there, you can put a nice log grapple on the front end loader and/ or a skidding grapple on the back but those can come later. The winch and the log loader, in my opinion, are necessities.

Protect your fuel tank and put a roll bar on the tractor and youll be surprised what you can get out in a day.
 

 

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2017, 05:02:58 AM »
i personally was gonna get a rear grapple instead of a winch. You think winch would be better than the rear grapple?

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2017, 07:42:09 AM »
i personally was gonna get a rear grapple instead of a winch. You think winch would be better than the rear grapple?

A rear grapple is great if you already have a pile of trees or if you can drive right up to the tree. In a selective cut, the winch will allow you stay on the access road and pull the tree to you. From there, I much prefer the log loader as you can cut to length and load them right there. No more dragging and getting them dirty. Add a grapple will allow you to pull them to a landing and cut them to length there which just adds a step in most cases.
In my experience, those who have taken a rear grapple are farmers and landowners with their own sawmills or firewood processors. They pull tree lengths to the processor and do all the work there. Youre bringing the logs home or selling them, go with A log loader.

Offline roger 4400

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2017, 09:43:02 AM »
Hi Tekhl !
I have a trailer forwarder that looks like Chubby, it is a Metavic 1150  14 ft of boom. What I do I put my Farmi 3 pt winch on my tractor pull the logs near the main trail , so this way your tractor is always in a nice trail, no damage under it. Then I get the forwarder on the tractor and carry the logs up to 16 footers. No damage to the trails or in the wood, winch with a pulley (snatch block ) can do miracles. Roger
Baker 18hd sawmill, massey Ferguson 1643, Farmi winch, mini forwarder, Honda foreman 400, f-250, many wood working tools, 200 acres wooden lots,6 kids and a lovely and a comprehensive wife...and now a Metavic 1150 m14 log loader so my tractor is a forwarder now

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2017, 11:08:15 PM »
As far as my tractor goes its a mahindra 4530 44 hp 4wd with FEL. Plenty strong but im not doing another job until i get a grapple for the front and back.

Front grapple, rear winch.  If a tree is accessible and a short skid you just drive in forward, grapple the butt and pull it out in reverse.  If its over a hill or needs to be snaked between keeper trees you wont be able to retrieve it with front or rear grapples so the winch is critical.

A haywagon trailer with 4post bunks might be something to think about after you get the tractor set up.  Bring it out to the woods and haul your 16s out few trees at a time.  Save a lot of fuel when the load is rolling on wheels instead of dragging. 
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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2017, 01:51:10 PM »
Was wondering if contracting logging trucks might be a better option for right now. How much do they usually charge?

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2017, 02:43:33 PM »
Out here the trucking is off a rate like here my rate I get paid doesn't matter mule train or long logger is the same. When I have a sub truck come I normally have to pay extra on top of that rate seems like on top of the rate I'd pay 900 or so a week in trucking for roughly 20 loads a week with a 30 to 31 ton payload truck.

Offline Puffergas

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2017, 06:57:24 PM »
A number of people i know hire the trucking, hard to do it all.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

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Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #48 on: December 25, 2017, 05:04:57 AM »
UP here other than some large operations, guys are either loggers or truckers. Not enough hours in the day to do both.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #49 on: December 25, 2017, 07:48:16 AM »
I use to cut with  my Father,on this land. Tractor,winch,small scale.
Oh yea,I heard the truck thing a few times. I could haul my own wood where I wanted too. ::)  And other reasons. I had a trucker,he hauled my wood where I told him too. If I'm driving,who's getting the wood out? I had no drivers license for a truck like that. How long would that take for me to get one? I won't even get into the price of a truck. No sense in talking about insurance for it. Normal wear and tear,nope,won't talk about that either. A break down??   :o
Yes,it cost to pay a trucker,but add up all the above and see how the math is.
We would only get 2-3 trucks load a month. At that time I had a full time job too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Online Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #50 on: December 25, 2017, 11:29:53 AM »
Parts of the country it's hard to get a driver or truck anymore, a buddy has a large scale trucking firm as well as logging on any given day he's running 50 trucks with at least 20 sitting that's part of the reason most of us out here do our own trucking. One other bonus is I'm setup as a quick change from bunks to fifth wheel for pulling lowboy I'm not sure about you guys, but here it's a minimum of 125 an hour up to 50k roughly of equipment weight after that it goes up. We know a few guys that have the 568 shovels with drums on them for yarding that are just shy of 140k that's one thing I wouldn't want to move myself you're always fighting the scales with those machines.

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #51 on: December 25, 2017, 11:53:20 AM »
Our wood is hauled on dedicated log trucks so there isn't much else you could haul with them. So if you cutting wood 8 or 10 hours a day that leaves no time to run the truck unless you hire somebody. And for the hassle it is to hire somebody and maintain a truck it's just easier to hire it out and let somebody worry about it and focus on cutting wood.

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2017, 01:12:40 PM »
Aren't your guy's trucks running subframes for the sideways wood hauling? If so that's all we have setup for a log bunk, and stinger to pull out switch out takes me about 20 minutes to be hooked up from long logger to lowboy. Sounds like you guys have better luck with trucking back there then we do out here especially running a short logger mule train it's harder to find someone to drive one. Myself when the day comes that our driver retires I'll find someone to drive our truck there's too much on the table left by not having one.

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2017, 01:34:13 PM »
Our log trucks are long straight trucks pulling a pup trailer, you could pull a float trailer and a skidder maybe but that's about it. For guys here the cost of owning and maintaining a truck is high so it needs to be running all the time, so there are either guys who run small fleets of trucks and haul for many different loggers, or owner operators. That way if the logger is down, moving jobs, weather bad, etc he can just send his truck someplace else and haul wood.

Nothing worse that being in the woods and get a call from your driver saying he's 200 miles away and broke down, then you have to stop producing wood to deal with it. Costing you the double whammy breakdown and downtime. Best thing my old boss did was dump the log truck and focus on producing more wood.


Offline Stoneyacrefarm

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2017, 01:46:12 PM »
Chevy.
Nice load of logs you have there.
Work hard. Be rewarded.

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2017, 02:00:43 PM »
I wish it was my load of logs. Just a picture I have in my gallery of a Michigan truck.

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #56 on: December 25, 2017, 02:11:37 PM »
For stuff like this I would loose my shirt not having the trucking myself the long ones were 85' the short one was 55', at 175 an hour plus mileage, and tickets I wouldn't of made anything on a 1500 a thousand pole now with the trucking added in that's another 2500 in our pocket a trip.

Offline mark_h

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #57 on: December 25, 2017, 03:10:40 PM »
85' that's quite the log. what species is that? doug fir?

Online Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #58 on: December 25, 2017, 03:31:19 PM »
Yes Doug fir the trees these were from 200' or so some taller some shorter we had to to take a log off the butt for straighten them out.

Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #59 on: December 25, 2017, 03:50:14 PM »
same for me skeans. not many contract trucks here and i need a truck when i need one. so i have one lol. insurance and tags are through the roof for what we do.....don't go far......but its a necessary evil for us. also pulls lowboy and landing loaders around, it would be pricey to pay for that every move or need to bring one home.

Online Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #60 on: December 25, 2017, 04:19:09 PM »
I agree completely it's a necessary evil is the best way to put it, yeah insurance is high same with tags but I'm coming out ahead in the end money wise in the end with our rate it's not too far from the logging.

Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #61 on: December 26, 2017, 11:31:51 PM »
Yea im thinking it may be a necessary evil for me also. With my small operation i was. considering getting a self loading log truck. If i wasnt using it on my jobsite could i have it contracted to another operation?  I was thinking that or that harvester you showed me might be a good first piece of equipment, that harvester i could cut and load with it

Offline Ianab

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2017, 12:54:43 AM »
Locally a couple of the larger outfits run their own trucks, but they also have several logging crews, and will haul for others to keep the trucks busy. One is a trucking company that got into logging, the other is a tree service/logging company that got into trucking. But they are big enough to run several logging crews, and trucks, so they are able to keep the crews and drivers busy, even if it's hauling logs for someone else.

The smaller operators will just run a skidder / excavator / dozer and hire in the trucking. They figure that having a large expensive truck sitting around doing nothing much of the time is a poor investment. And if you driving, you aren't logging. Local trucking companies are always looking for work, and a couple have spare log trailers. So they can hitch one up to a truck that was hailing gravel or fertilizer yesterday, and spend a day hauling logs. Keeps the expensive (and more reliable) late model trucks on the road and paying the bills.

All the crews have a some way of loading logs at the landing, large wheel loader or excavator with a grapple, and same at the mills and port. So self loaders are rare. The self loader adds to the cost, and reduces the payload of the truck.

All the trucks also load their trailers onto the truck when running empty. They are taxed on "axles per mile". If 1/2 the axles are on the road for the empty trip, that's 25% less road tax to pay, and the trucks travel better with a load on the deck, rather than an empty trailer bouncing along behind.

So a decent load is something like this.


And another coming back empty
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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2017, 02:40:50 AM »
I got ya. Well it won't be me hauling anyway,  my employee will be the one hauling. I was just seeing if i did have a truck if he could haul for someone else if we didn't have work.

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2017, 05:01:55 AM »
If you get a truck and hire a driver, good luck. A one truck show driven by a hired hand generally does not work out. I have seen it work, but have seen it fail much more often.
The driver for a self load truck, has to be a good driver and there is a world of difference between a pavement pounder and a truck that gets off the road, plus he also has to be an equipment operator. Finding a good one that hasn't got a good job, may not be easy.

I have 5 good running semis, I only keep currant license and insurance on 2 of them, cuz the guy typing this is the only one that drives them. I quit using hired drivers several years ago. It does look like I will be putting a driver in one next summer, but I have known him forever and know how he treats a rig, but he also draws top dollar.
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Online Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2017, 09:31:09 AM »
Yea im thinking it may be a necessary evil for me also. With my small operation i was. considering getting a self loading log truck. If i wasnt using it on my jobsite could i have it contracted to another operation?  I was thinking that or that harvester you showed me might be a good first piece of equipment, that harvester i could cut and load with it
Which one the Combi machine like a Timbco or Timberpro? Or something like my 653 with the Fabtek?
We stay busy enough I can't hire my truck out but once in a blue we'll help a company out and grab a load for them. A guy I know has two trucks hires them both out then has a mule train come in for his thinning wood. Normally when we get mule trains in they're hopped up with the trailers front axle on the back of the truck frame or the trailer is a rock back set up like this one is so all you lift on either is just the tongue.
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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2018, 12:36:16 AM »
i Was looking for advice on selling my equipment.  i got a guy on his way right now 14 hours away to buy my grinder. We agreed that he will get a cashiers check and he will meet me at my bank and after my bank clears it ill transfer it to him.  Are cashiers checks pretty safe? i just figured if hes driving 14 hours and has agreed to my terms, surely i can't be scammed. Just nervous as this is my first time selling a big ticket item.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2018, 05:56:01 AM »
If your bank will give you the funds immediately then yes. If they put a 10 business day hold on it,well..................................
So much can be scammed and faked now.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline 2308500

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2018, 06:11:43 AM »
in canada i like to close a deal with a bank draft.   its as good as cash.  needs to be bought from bank by your "buyer" and is the only way we can surely, not be scammed.  just dont lose the draft because its your only ticket to the money

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2018, 01:21:10 PM »
You can wire the funds from account to account.  Just make sure they have cleared into your account and are not reversible before he hitches up.  I exported equipment to third world countries for a scrap yard.  Wire was how we did everything, and lots of it was just pictures, phone calls, and a rigger showing up. 
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Offline lopet

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2018, 07:04:28 PM »
Wires can take up to two or tree business days which I think is a joke.
A draft or certified check you can buy at your bank for a fee. The amount comes out of your account immediately and the bank will guarantee the funds and not the account holder. I've done a lot of business like that, if you go look at something and you don't like what you see, you can always put the check back in your account.
I know you're the seller, just sayn.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2018, 10:59:06 PM »
Its sold and everything was good. He let me come into the bank while he got the check.  I felt like an idiot though,  night before i cleaned it up did a test grind no leaks.  He got here after a 14 hour drive,  bam, dang fuel leak from the filter, no big deal, tightened it up, bam, dang fuel solenoid sprung a leak spraying fuel everywhere.  Luckily he had a sense of humor and laughed and said its only hapenning cause im selling it. I felf like chevy chase in vegas vacation when he was trying to plug holes in the hoover dam with gum. VERY embarrassing. But he bought it anyway


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