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Author Topic: Setter  (Read 2670 times)

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Offline ladylake

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Re: Setter
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2017, 04:19:41 PM »

 Yes.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Setter
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2017, 04:35:52 PM »
I might have to trade up the old red dts for one of these units hot dog!
Boy, back in my day..

Offline ladylake

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Re: Setter
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2017, 04:46:41 PM »
 Shouldn't break your bank, just over $1200 shipped.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Percy

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Re: Setter
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2017, 06:28:26 PM »
So you can upset and downset both sides of the blade in one pass?
Ya...I guess, if you had some teeth that got overset by metal or somthing, this would push them back, part way atleast. To be honest, Ive never downset a blade, but I use those downset anvils always as they seem to make the unit more accurate. The key to accuracy of this setter, IMO, is accurate setting of the blade height using  the little plastic gauge/thingamajig/ what came with the unit, and consistant pressure on the "bidness" handle, and using the downset anvils as they seem to make/keep the set within 2 thou. I can live with that. What I dont like about the unit is the clamp on dial gauge. That cooks one and the WM one seems to have a dedicated gauge for each side. I have to do a few teeth, then clamp the gauge on the blade to check my work on one side, then reclamp the gauge on the other side and check my work again. On the positive, if you are real careful setting the blade height before setting, the results are pretty good/consistant. I run alot of set and when I get a new box of blades, I set the height to the first blade outta the box and just do the other 9 right off. Sometimes without checking....heh...I like to live dangerously...pretty much always works out.  *stands infront of wavy boards with missing tooth grin*
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Offline PAmizerman

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Re: Setter
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2017, 08:23:45 PM »
Perxy, how much set do you run?
Woodmizer lt40 super remote 42hp Kubota diesel. Accuset II
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: Setter
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2017, 08:41:55 PM »
Interesting, must be different up there in Canada cause it's metric, but I tend to run as less set as possible.  I tend to prefer about .025" with my setup in unfrozen hardwood...in frozen hardwood I'll run around .015" +/-


With the LT40 and 36hp yanmar it liked .020" in unfrozen logs and .012" in frozen wood.  .012" worked really well for me in frozen doug fir too..that was either with 4 or 7 degree blades I can't remember.  With the more power on the 70 it seems to fancy a bit more set. 
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Percy

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Re: Setter
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2018, 04:23:00 AM »
Perxy, how much set do you run?
.038 ish ;D
I cut mainly sitka spruce, WRC, and Alaskan Yellow Cedar. Soft woods seem to like way more set as they are springy for lack of a better term, compared to hardwoods. I cut about 100,000 bdft of birch waaaay back and I still used the 13 degree blades. Feed rates were scarey fast and I just never bothered setting right out of the box or ever for that matter. While hardwoods are obviously much harder than the softwood, the birch hardwood seems to be more consistant in density than softwood and cuts cleaner ,,,less springy and generally more fun to cut than sitka...sitka is related to Hickory by marrage :D :D :D :D
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Offline Pabene

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Re: Setter
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2018, 06:45:11 AM »
I have had a Cooks single tooth setter. It had some week points, in my opinion, but easy to adjust so it was a good setter for me. There are more things to observe about setting than I have seen here on the forum. All setters I have seen on the market bends the teeth against a horizontal edge. That means the side of the tooth is parallell to the blade body. In other tools you want to see a relief angle in this area. If you are careful and have the setters anvil to push the tooth on a point close to the face, you will have a little better result. If you would press the tooth, on a point close to its back, it can result in a negative relief angle for the side of the tooth.
The teeth on most blades has a back angle about 30 and the back is shaped straight up to the tip. That means the tip, on the outside of a tooth with set, will cut a little wider in the kerf. It is what you need but the margin to bad behavior can be low. I hope you can see it can be critical to perform the set in the best way. I have made some tests to first "pre-twist" the teeth a little and then perform the set in my S.T.S. So far it has been positive.

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Setter
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2018, 08:40:06 AM »
Interesting. To confirm, is one thing you are saying, that it should be better to have  the blade clamped deeper so less of the tooth is protruding above the clamp?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline Pabene

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Re: Setter
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2018, 01:13:49 PM »
I have not been able to add photos on this forum yet. A photo would explain better than my words.
If you are looking down to a blade, clamped in your setter the normal way, or a little higher, you can see the teeth in "set groups", left, right and no set. With an adjustable spanner you now can "twist out" the front (face) a little. On the left tooth to the left  and on the right tooth to the right. You can in the same moment with the spanner, "down-set" a little. Then you have to "calibrate" the set in your setter the normal way. Grind the blade the normal way. Now you have a blade with a relief angle also on the outside of each toth with set. (That means you have a possibilty to go so far that the outside of the face can cut not only on its tip.) For the blades I have tested this method on, I have a combination of normal set and "pre twisted" teeth. I think the twist can be about 3. The pre-twist procedure is enough to performe once, it will last for many grind and set operations.

Offline Percy

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Re: Setter
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2018, 01:39:15 PM »
I have not been able to add photos on this forum yet. A photo would explain better than my words.
If you are looking down to a blade, clamped in your setter the normal way, or a little higher, you can see the teeth in "set groups", left, right and no set. With an adjustable spanner you now can "twist out" the front (face) a little. On the left tooth to the left  and on the right tooth to the right. You can in the same moment with the spanner, "down-set" a little. Then you have to "calibrate" the set in your setter the normal way. Grind the blade the normal way. Now you have a blade with a relief angle also on the outside of each toth with set. (That means you have a possibilty to go so far that the outside of the face can cut not only on its tip.) For the blades I have tested this method on, I have a combination of normal set and "pre twisted" teeth. I think the twist can be about 3. The pre-twist procedure is enough to performe once, it will last for many grind and set operations.
Very interesting. I never spent any time thinking of relief angle in the manner you describe. Looking at the photo of my setter here, I could grind the setting anvils appropriately for achiving what you describe/recommend?
 

 
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: Setter
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2018, 09:25:11 PM »
Very interesting..I do believe Im picking up what youre putting down.  Percy I think that it would have to do both sets on each tooth at the same time so that they can kinda push against each other to put the twist in to the tooth so looking at your setter I think you could do that, but wud prolly have to replace the plastic anvil with something more substantial.


Pabene how do the twisted teeth perform compared to normally set teeth?
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Pabene

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Re: Setter
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2018, 12:56:09 PM »
Percy, You can grind your anvils so it will hit the teeth on its face edge. It was the way I started. If you have a dial indicator on your setter it is a good way to go. If you dont have a the possibility to check every tooth it means it is more critical to stop the teeth in correct position in the setter for each set stroke.
4x4American. It is a long story about my steps to how it is for me today. I started to check the cutting angles on new blades many years ago. I wrote here on the forum, last fall, about parts of it. Your question if my blade is better with twisted teeth: yes, I think its better but it is in combination with a back angle of 12, just at the top of the teeth.
I discovered the need for a relief angle, on the outside of the teeth, when I checked my blades dullness with a magnifying glass. That way is good to see how the wear looks like around the top of the teeth after some hours in the mill.
I think the most important is to avoid, by mistake, to let the setters anvil hit the teeth at the back side. It can result in negative relief on the out side of the teeth.   
 

  Here is a photo (the first time I was able add a Photo here.) on a blade. The twist is not visible but how I like to grind the back angle.

Offline ladylake

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Re: Setter
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2018, 02:09:21 PM »

 Pabene 
   Any problem with it feeding with only a 12 angle at the tip of the tooth, seems like lately the rage has been a 40 back angle which to me don't take a nail hit very well.   I'd bet your 12 would take a nail hit good.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Setter
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2018, 02:41:02 PM »
I think I got your idea about twist in tooth and the relief angle, but to be honest I 'm not sure.

Just to be correct I think "anvil" is the part that contacts the body of the blade, and "pusher" is the part that pushes the tooth (against the anvil). 

I am also uncertain that pushing just the tip of the blade enough to bend it outwards by a few thousandths of an inch, is going to take the "twist" out of the tooth, isn't this twist part of blade manufacture?

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

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Re: Setter
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2018, 03:51:23 PM »
Terrifictimberslic, I am sorry for my English. I missunderstod the text in an other thread. Here "anvil" would be "pusher". So, it is important to let the pusher hit the tooth close to its face. In my singel tooth setter, I set the pusher to push on a point at the middle of the tooth height and close to its face. If the teeth is "pre twisted", the twist remains after many set procdures. I have checked the relief angle, on the outside of the tooth, on some new blades. There are blades with very little relief angle. If you are uncareful it is easy to make it worse. When you are looking down on a blade with the teeth grinded to 30 back angle, all the way up to its tip, you can see it looks like there is a relief angle, but it can be false. If you take a 0.1" drillbit, hold the drillbit to the side of the tooth, just under the tip and horizontal. Now you can see the real angle, the drillbit shall point out, I think at least 3. (You can also use a caliper, pinch the tooth tipp and you can judge the relief angle.)

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: Setter
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2018, 08:45:30 PM »

 Pabene 
   Any problem with it feeding with only a 12 angle at the tip of the tooth, seems like lately the rage has been a 40 back angle which to me don't take a nail hit very well.   I'd bet your 12 would take a nail hit good.  Steve

Steve, the guy that sharpens ( really he just grinds at em) blades for work ground a bunch of 7/39s for us but with a 35deg back angle.  Absolutely ruined the whole lot. Feed rate was 25-50% slower, would wander in the cut, blades would "push off" the cant leaving a hump on the cant. Junk.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

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Offline Pabene

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Re: Setter
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2018, 11:56:30 PM »
With a normal blade speed in a mill and a very good feed rate, say 75 Feet/min, the blades tooth tips are moving through the log at an angle of about 1. A relief angle of 12 would be enough for much higher feed but impossible in most mills for other reasons.
When I have cut a 4" nail, it is blue steel chips from the nail on some tooth tips. The steel chips are burned to the tips as the cutting speed is to high for steel. It is about 20 teeth with chips and I take it away from the tips before I starts to resharpen the blade. The blade works as normal after a such mishap.

Offline ladylake

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Re: Setter
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2018, 05:23:19 AM »


 I'm really getting confused here, one guy says they wont cut good unless their a 40, the next says only 12 at the tip is needed for 75 lf per minute while I'm perfectly happy with the 30 back angle I run.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Setter
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2018, 06:52:05 AM »


 I'm really getting confused here, one guy says they wont cut good unless their a 40, the next says only 12 at the tip is needed for 75 lf per minute while I'm perfectly happy with the 30 back angle I run.  Steve


Hes not talkin about the whole back angle, hes grinding just the back trailing edge of the tip of the tooth to a little 12 degree ramp.  Look closely at the picture he put up you can see it. 
Boy, back in my day..


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