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Author Topic: Hello From NY  (Read 1860 times)

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Offline nybhh

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Hello From NY
« on: December 30, 2017, 11:27:48 AM »
Just wanted to say hi.  No real question for my first post as I'm still in shopping mode until spring but I'll give a bit of background into my reasons for purchasing a saw mill, which one I'm thinking about and a few projects I've got planned.

I'm on 40-acres here, 35 of which is a woodlot with a mix of mostly Eastern White Pine, Red and White Oak, Maple, and a small rapidly declining stand of White Ash.  I have plans to slowly reclaim a few acres of old stone wall surrounded fields that have been taken over by by 50-75 years worth of new growth, most of which is EWP.  Aroud here, you can't give pine away, no one burns it for firewood and the property was high-graded about 20 years ago so it really isn't worth it to bring in a logger.   I have a wood chipper for my Kubota L3800 tractor that can handle up to 6-7" pines (about 4" hardwoods) but any pine larger than that is tough to get rid of.  Hardwoods of course can be used for firewood if nothing else.

I've run some numbers and have a handfull of immediate projects that would just about pay for a small mill so I've decided to pick one up this spring to kill 2 birds with one stone.  I can knock out lumber for a few projects and start to clear some of these pines that are too large to chip and hopefully salvage some heartwood from about 2 dozen 14-18"+ ash trees.  I'm really leaning towards a Woodland Mills HM130 at this point as it seems about the right size and price point for what I need to pay for itself with immediate projects, which are:

The 20x40 barn needs about 1500 BF of new rough cut board and baton siding and a new roof which will require about 1000 BF of decking.  I need to build a bridge across the creek to make accessing the "back 35" a lot easier with the Kubota.  That will be 4 16' long 10x10's with 8' long 2x6 decking and will support 20,000 lbs so I can use it to get a small excavator back there as well. 

And of course, a new mill will require it's own storage needs so I'm going to build a 16' x 20' open shed off the back of the bard to cover the mill head and provide a covered/open area for drying storage.  I may even build a solar kiln if I really get into it.  There is an old cottage on the property my wife wants to renovate and I've thought about milling all of the ash into 1x4s for paneling in the cottage when I get around to renovting that. 

I don't really have plans to mill for profit although I'll need to produce something that sells easy to get rid of any extra pine I can't use myself.  Seems like rough cut siding for barns and sheds would probably be the easiest to move around here.

Anyway, enough blabbing.  I'd love any feedback or opinions anyoine cares to share.  These Ash trees still have leaves in the summer but they are declining quickly and starting to show the "yellow bark" where the woodpeckers are at them.  Anyone klnow how long do I have to still salvage heartwood from them?  Any exerience with trying to salvage something out of Ash-borer infested ash? 

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading and nice to "meet" you.  :new_year:
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2017, 11:29:24 AM »
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, nybhh!


White Pine is good lumber for building, just get it up a little so it doesn't have ground-contact!

Up here, White Pine and Hemlock are the "go-to" trees for construction!  The Hemlock has quite a lot more structural strength than the White Pine, but both are widely used in this area!
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Offline breederman

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2017, 11:54:52 AM »
Welcome.  I was down your way for work last week.
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2017, 12:34:42 PM »
   Welcome and Happy New year.

   Good luck on your search. If you can afford a good name brand mill with hydraulics, even a good used one, you will enjoy your milling a lot more. Keep us posted.
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 01:09:43 PM »
nybhh.welcome to the forum.
Yes,hyd are nice,but as a hobby sawmill user,it is just one more thing to maintain and go wrong. On a small scale,I don't see a need for hyd. My saw will sit for a year at a time before I use it. I cut the tree,saw the lumber than I build. Run out of lumber,back to the woods I go.
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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 02:23:18 PM »
Welcome and wish I had your property.  I pay up to $300 M for professionally cut w.p. saw logs in season, delivered. Can use 12" tip min. dia. and down to 8' 6". Orange county has very little pine.

Offline nybhh

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2017, 08:50:35 AM »
Welcome and wish I had your property.  I pay up to $300 M for professionally cut w.p. saw logs in season, delivered. Can use 12" tip min. dia. and down to 8' 6". Orange county has very little pine.

Theres a ton of it up here.  Im about 1/2 way between Accord and the Ashokan reservoir.  After Sandy, I had to pay $600 per load to have 24-30+ EWP blowdowns hauled off from right around the house that were an eye sore.  It was a self-loading logging truck and I stacked everything by the driveway in as long of pieces as my tractor loader could lift so he didnt even have to get out of the truck. I had 2-3 loads just from the 5 acres around the house and several of our neighbors had as much or more.

As a property owner, I cant stand it which is why I plan on slowly converting about 3 acres of pines that was once a field (fewer rocks) back into a field (deer food plot).

A few years back we cleared about an acre of pine by the house and planted white clover and the deer pretty much keep that mowed like a golf course.  There is so little open space left north of 209 that the deer and other wildlife flock to any little opening that gets sunlight to the ground.
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 09:18:12 AM »
White Pine is my favorite working wood....

 

 
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 09:55:59 AM »
Welcome. I have pretty much the same plan you do. only real difference is I am building my mill. If you want your mill by spring you may want to seriously consider ordering it now. Some of the mill manufacturers are getting pretty long lead times.
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Offline dgdrls

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 03:58:17 PM »
Welcome nybhh,

I spent a few years in the Plattekill/Ardonia area back in the late 1980's

nice area you're in, 

D

Offline samandothers

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2018, 01:59:26 PM »
Welcome!

Look forward to reading about your sawmill purchase and building projects!

Offline ronaldwf

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2018, 02:56:00 PM »
Hello folks,

I just cut down two Monterey Cypress Trees here in central coast California and I'm just starting to look into how I might use the wood.  logs are about 1.5 to 2.5 feet in diameter 6 to 11 feet long.  I'm new at all of this and don't even own a chainsaw but I didn't want the wood to go to waste.

I have 6 logs in my backyard now and wondering if I should do anything to protect the wood while I find a portable bandsaw professional.  I have 4 questions

1) Should the logs be resting on the ground or should a roll them on top of a tarp.  \

2) Should the ends be painted treated to protect the wood

3) Should the logs be covered with a tarp or just exposed to the elements including the rain

4) I have one cross-section (circular-ish) piece that is about 5 inches thick that came from the base of the biggest tree with a diameter of about 40 inches.   How should I handle this.

thanks to anyone who can answer

Ronald

Offline Ianab

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2018, 03:57:53 PM »
I cut a lot of Monterey cypress here in NZ. Good news is, it's nice wood and fairly durable, so the logs will last a while.
1 - Best to get the logs off the ground. Roll them up on to some posts or limps so they aren't in ground contact.
2 - I don't bother end coating softwood.  They don't end check as badly as some hardwoods.
3 - A tarp to keep the sun and rain off is good  But make it like a roof over the logs. Don't wrap them, let the air circulate.
5 - Good luck. A slice like that will probably crack no matter what you do. Let it dry and then see what you have.
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2018, 06:42:29 PM »
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, ronaldwf!
~Chuck~
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Offline ronaldwf

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2018, 08:23:16 PM »
A saw mill operator said that he would transport the logs to his shop and mill the 6 logs (2 feet in diameter and 7 feet long on average)  for a cost of half of the wood.  Is that reasonable ?  He is about 10 miles away.  Thanks again for your help, members.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 08:39:07 PM »
"Reasonable" is a very local condition. If there are no other options for you then it's probably an awesome deal. Just to give you an example if you had property logged off and shipped the logs to a mill you would see between $0.20 and $0.50 on the dollar of what the logs sold for.  That being said without knowing your local market I would say a 50/50 shares deal on your logs is very fair.

Also, welcome to the Forum. Any ideas on what you will do with the lumber?
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Offline Darrel

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2018, 09:25:21 PM »
I saw on shares from time to time and have always received 50% of the wood in payment for sawing.
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2018, 11:15:30 PM »
50/50 is probably a fair deal.

Suggestion, divide the logs into 2 lots, as close to the same amount of wood in each. Then tell him to choose the pile he wants. He then saws your pile for you, and you leave him to do what ever he wants with his logs.

That way you get your logs sawn how you want, and there is no argument over who is getting the better grade boards and which sizes.

Macrocarpa is a great wood to work with, smells fantastic and finishes up great. It's not a common tree in the US, so the wood is unusual, but in other parts of the world it grows much faster / larger and is commonly sawn.

This is a table I made from a live edge slab.
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Offline ronaldwf

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2018, 11:46:39 PM »
thanks for suggestions and responses.

I'd like to make a table and have short stools made out of the 1 foot long "slices" that I was able to get from higher up in the trees.   I'm comfortable with wood tools although I have mainly cut wood for "jobs around the house",repairs, and such, and so it would be nice to make a nice piece for my 3 girls who are about the same age as the two girls in the photo.

ronald

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2018, 10:36:51 AM »
Never never saw for shares of lumber. Almost always results in hard feelings. like Ian says, 2 piles of logs. I do a good bit of sawing for shares, always share logs, not lumber...Most recent job was a whack of 52 nice cedar logs. I sawed his 26  into what he wanted, he's happy, most of mine are still in my log pile waiting to be cut into whatever I need...
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2018, 01:30:39 PM »
My recommendation would be to saw for shares only if you have a need or a sale for your share.  In 15 years of sawing I have sawed for shares only once and then only because I had a need for some Cypress lumber.  Of course this is because I am in the sawing business, not in the selling business.  Choose your market.
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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2018, 02:42:20 PM »
   I'm completely in agreement with dividing the logs - if you can use the wood. I have poplar running out my ears and can go cut a tree any time I need to fill an order so it has no value to me to saw on shares.

   I will saw walnut or cherry or locust and such that I consider high value and useful on shares. I tell the customer we will divide the logs then flip a coin to see who gets which pile. I scale and write the bf on each log and divide as equally as I can. Then I show the piles and the tally for both piles and make sure the customer agrees they have been divided as equally as the logs will allow. Then I surprise him by telling him he can go ahead and pick the pile he wants. That makes him think he got the better deal. The last time I did that for a neighbor there was one log he really wanted for a fireplace mantel and was afraid he would not draw it so he was very happy with my offer. Good deal for me, stay in good graces with the neighbor and all was right with the world.

   BTW - these logs had sat on a neighbor's yard for half a mile up the road for over a year waiting for him to cut them at a cheaper price than I first offered. When he gave up on the other guy and came back and asked me to go ahead and saw them I had finished building some storage and told him I'd saw all for cash as previously discussed or could saw on halves and he is always cash poor so he was doubly happy with the offer.
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Offline woodyone.john

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2018, 03:15:59 PM »
 Toss a coin.One  party divides the logs, the other gets to pick which pile they want.Keeps it pretty fair.I heard of 2 brothers who inherited a large farm and after a while of working together and starting families they wanted to divide the propery. Thats how they did it.
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2018, 04:31:00 PM »
If you saw for shares of lumber have your friend pick a board and the you pick
a board. Keep going till there gone...
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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2018, 05:49:48 PM »
On my only "share" experience we both wanted as many 1X8's as possible so we alternated boards as they were sawn.  One for him and the next one for me.  He also got any of my boards that I did not want plus he had to haul off the slabs.
 

 
 

 
My share.  We were both satisfied.
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Offline ronaldwf

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2018, 11:11:36 PM »
3 questions for fellow loggers

1) Does anyone know if there is a product that you can pour into a section of a cookie slice that is partially rotten in order to make it more solid  ?   I have a slice of Monterey cypress and there is a spot in middle that is rotten (which is why I cut it down), and I'd like to make a round table using the whole thing but the rotten part is only semi-solid (it's not cracking off but it is softer than the surrounding good wood.  (see photo)

2) also, does anyone know if the IPEX brand is as good as anchorseal

3) if a 2 foot diameter log of monterey cypress is left on the ground but covered from the sun and rain then how long can it be there before the wood behind the bark begins to decompose and not be usable (millable) ?  I hoping to mill it in one month or so ... but is this too late ?

thanks all

ronald

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2018, 11:28:23 PM »
Hi Ronald

Welcome to the Forum.  I have seen guys use epoxy to fill in areas on the cookie like you mention, some even color the epoxy, I don't know the brand but I am sure there are wood workers on here that can direct you to one or another. 

We don't have any cypress around here so I can't specifically speak to that wood.  Not knowing where you are kind of complicates this answer as well.  For us heat raises havock with logs that are sitting out.  Pine will begin to blue stain very quickly in the summer heat around here - couple of weeks sometimes.  This time of year - no problem at all.  Same holds true for insect issues, warm, moist air = more bugs, dry, cold air = no issues at all.  So if you are in the southern hemisphere right now, then perhaps you want to get to that log as soon as possible, my gut tells me a month will not cause any major issue at all unless some critter decides it really likes your log. 
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Offline Tom the Sawyer

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2018, 12:04:13 AM »
I can't imagine a time when I would mill for shares of lumber, especially if I also had to haul the logs, or travel to the site.

That said, I do have an arrangement that works with some of the tree guys I buy logs from.  They bring a load of logs (for me that might be up to a dozen logs - I'm small time) and I scale and value the logs.  They pull out any logs they want milled and I mill them at my regular rates.  Any logs left (value already determined) are credited against the milling fees.  One of them runs a tab with me.  He brings logs, doesn't want a check so he gets a credit for them.  A couple of times a year he'll bring logs, or bring a customer with him, and have logs milled.  The milling fees are subtracted from his credit balance.  End of year we settle up.   
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Offline woodyone.john

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2018, 12:10:16 AM »
the sap will start to degrade then rot after 2 years over here but the log should be good for more than 5. lift it of the ground,ie put it on gluts  but dont put a tarp over it ,that would accelerate the rotting process
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

Offline Ianab

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2018, 02:35:02 AM »
Like John says, Monterrey cypress will last a long time in log form. If you haven't end sealed now, don't bother. It doesn't end check badly anyway.

Off the ground, and under cover will be best. Don't wrap if under a tarp, think more like a gazebo or carport, with just a roof. Keep the sun and rain off, but let the air circulate over the logs.

It doesn't seem prone to bag attack. Only time I've seen them in it is living trees that are still green, but starting to get rot pockets. Or logs that are already badly rotted. Once it starts drying bugs don't seem interested.
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Hello From NY
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2018, 02:51:30 AM »
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We don't have any cypress around here so I can't specifically speak to that wood.  Not knowing where you are kind of complicates this answer as well.  For us heat raises havock with logs that are sitting out.  Pine will begin to blue stain very quickly in the summer heat around here - couple of weeks sometimes.  This time of year - no problem at all.  Same holds true for insect issues, warm, moist air = more bugs, dry, cold air = no issues at all.

You are right about pine, bugs and stain get into that fast in the warm weather.

Monterey cypress is a different beast, more like a cedar. In NZ they can grow up to maybe 9ft dia, in a bit over a 100 years.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)


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