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Author Topic: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36  (Read 1061 times)

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Offline 50 Acre Jim

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Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« on: December 30, 2017, 04:56:39 PM »
The rear ceramic on the adjustable blade guide has self-destructed at the very young age of 11 blades.  I really thought they lasted longer than that?    And the timing couldn't be worse.  It's the weekend of the new year and I'm sure Norwood won't be open until next Tuesday, maybe even longer than that.    I really need to finish a log that's on the mill and then have a small order for a fellow that has been very patient. 

Does anyone have a workaround? 
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Offline ladylake

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2017, 05:02:35 PM »
 
 I keep spare parts for a lot of things that can and will break,  I'd switch the guides over to Cooks roller guides, cost quite a bit but well worth it.  Steve
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Offline starmac

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2017, 06:08:05 PM »
Are you saying the mill itself has just had 11 blades used on it, or the broken guide?

Either way it sounds like a defective part, which unfortunately is fairly common.
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2017, 06:11:55 PM »
A little JB weld might put your little parts back together until you get a new one...
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Offline ladylake

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 06:23:30 PM »

 I keep a lot of spare parts like v belts, guide rollers, , chain repair links,  solenoids , ignition switch . toggle switches, chain turner chain, hydraulic hoses plus more.  If something breaks when I'm on the road I can fix it fast rather than wait for parts. I'm no fan of those sandwich type blade guides is why I recommended the Cooks roller guides. Nothing wrong with a Norwood mill unless it has those sandwich type guides.  Steve
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Offline 50 Acre Jim

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 06:31:19 PM »

 I keep spare parts for a lot of things that can and will break,  I'd switch the guides over to Cooks roller guides, cost quite a bit but well worth it.  Steve
Yep, and I'm sure I will too.  But at this early stage of my sawmilling development, I don't know what to stock.   Can't keep one of everything, right?  But I'll give Cooks a call on Tuesday and see what they have that will work.  Been to their website and it looks like they got a part that should work.  Thank you Steve...

A little JB weld might put your little parts back together until you get a new one...
No, I don't think so but not a bad idea if the part had just broken in half. But no, it broke into a bunch of pieces. 

Are you saying the mill itself has just had 11 blades used on it, or the broken guide?

Either way it sounds like a defective part, which unfortunately is fairly common.
11 total blades on the mill.  So the part has seen very limited use.   
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Offline JB Griffin

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2017, 08:58:30 PM »
Roller guides. ;)
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Offline ladylake

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 06:03:19 AM »
 

 Jim   I took a look at a Norwood video , I suspect you had the rear ceramic guide too close to the back of the blade causing it to rub hard and over heat, if not too close running dull blades would do the same as they would push back farther making the guide heat up.  I run my flanges 1/4 " behind the back of the blade, much closer bands start to break fast plus it hard on the guide flange.  In theory the back of the blade shouldn't even hit the back support when sawing, when I hear the blade start to hit the flange its time to put a sharp on .  Steve
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 07:07:48 AM »
Jim, put a good band on the mill preferably a new one and try it. I was a sawyer for a fella with A LT-70 with the ceramic blocks, they would come out but we would keep sawing with no apparent change. I think most are held in with epoxy that can't take the heat. Advice to go to flanged rollers is a good one. Frank C.
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Offline 50 Acre Jim

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 07:30:10 AM »
 

 Jim   I took a look at a Norwood video , I suspect you had the rear ceramic guide too close to the back of the blade causing it to rub hard and over heat, if not too close running dull blades would do the same as they would push back farther making the guide heat up.  I run my flanges 1/4 " behind the back of the blade, much closer bands start to break fast plus it hard on the guide flange.  In theory the back of the blade shouldn't even hit the back support when sawing, when I hear the blade start to hit the flange its time to put a sharp on .  Steve
Thank you for taking the time to research this Steve, I appreciate that!   The blade I was using was new on this log and I had only made 4 cuts.  But that being said, the log was large and I had the guides open to their maximum width.  So perhaps I was pushing it a little to fast and forced the blade into the rear ceramic.  So yes, I agree with your diagnosis.  But that being said, I was hoping someone might have a workaround so I can finish the small job I have been promising.    At this point I'd stick a marble in there if it would work...   :D 


Jim, put a good band on the mill preferably a new one and try it. I was a sawyer for a fella with A LT-70 with the ceramic blocks, they would come out but we would keep sawing with no apparent change. I think most are held in with epoxy that can't take the heat. Advice to go to flanged rollers is a good one. Frank C.
Thanks Frank, the general consinsis does lean toward rollers.  As a last ditch effort, I'll put on a new blade and slowly work through the log.  Hopefully, I can get this finished!   
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Offline ladylake

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2017, 07:44:27 AM »

 Jim  With a sharp blade and not pushing too hard you should have no trouble without the back support, make sure to keep the tension up as that will help the blade from pushing back and no I don't recommend over tensioning as that's hard on everything.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline 50 Acre Jim

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2017, 07:59:52 AM »

 Jim  With a sharp blade and not pushing too hard you should have no trouble without the back support, make sure to keep the tension up as that will help the blade from pushing back and no I don't recommend over tensioning as that's hard on everything.  Steve
Thank you Steve! 
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Offline clay3

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2017, 09:13:48 AM »
The round guides are clamped in place by the holder, the rear guides are held by a set screw. overtighten and it will crush the ceramic, try a new one and don't tighten so much.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2017, 10:04:22 AM »
in desperation you could probably use a piece of bronze in there but it would not be ideal. The ceramic is quite a but harder. But bearings are made from bronze. Of course its usually a very different configuration.
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Offline btulloh

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2017, 01:31:54 PM »
You can even use a piece of hard maple soaked in a light oil.  Or lignum vitae if you happen to have some.  Just be sure to have some clearance. 

I've always run blocks with a little more clearance than what's called for and gotten good results.  If everything is aligned well the blocks don't come into play that much.  FWIW

Offline ladylake

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2017, 04:26:36 PM »

 Yes sharp blade, rear support 1/4" behind blade ,aligned well  and not pushing real hard the blade shouldn't even touch the back support.  Plus a 10 blade will not push back as much as a 4 blade. Steve
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2017, 06:51:08 PM »
Yellow brass would hold for a while...
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Offline SlowJoeCrow

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 09:38:14 AM »
Yep, put a sharp blade on and take it easy.  The rear ceramic is still on the stationary guide, right?  If so, the blade will back up against that one if it does get pushed back.  You have to be careful not to over-tighten the set screw for those rear ceramic cubes.  Definitely keep extras on hand if you don't convert to rollers.

Offline 50 Acre Jim

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Re: Broken ceramic on Norwood HD36
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2018, 09:40:16 AM »
Yep, put a sharp blade on and take it easy.  The rear ceramic is still on the stationary guide, right? 
Yep, rear ceramic is still on the stationary guide.  Too darn cold to go out there right now anyway!   
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