The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

Arborwear



Author Topic: What is typical in a timber sales contract?  (Read 2000 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KYGirl

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Location: Lexington, KY
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« on: January 02, 2018, 08:45:09 PM »
Hello all-

I can safely say I know nothing about timber or timber sales. My grandmother is interested in selling the timber on her land in a rural area here in Kentucky. She was approached by a timberer who offered her the following contract:
-a select cut of land that she outlines
-33% of sales of saw logs
-50% of veneer logs
-tickets from timber buyers and saw mills will be provided with a check paying her weekly

Does this sound fair and customary? It also states that land will be put back to master logger requirements.

Offline WDH

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26874
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Perry, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • April 1998 - August 2008
    • Share Post
    • hamsleyhardwood.com
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2018, 08:50:26 PM »
I would not sell it without getting the timber appraised so that you know what it is worth.  You will need a Forester with knowledge of the local markets to do this.  It is good business to always know what something is worth when you are ready to sell it.  Especially timber as most people do not understand how to value timber. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 15774
  • Age: 61
  • Location: Rock Hill, S.C
  • Gender: Male
  • Getting old but doing it with Friends.
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2018, 08:50:42 PM »
I would probably get a Forester involved.
Where's the Spoon?

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26481
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2018, 09:18:55 PM »
There is pobably a big dollar amount being waved around. Spend a little bit of that amount and you could make it even a bigger amount. There are some that will lowball.
And welcome to the forum.
It took years to grow that forest. It takes time to figure out what it's worth.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 35304
  • Age: 74
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2018, 09:37:32 PM »
The Forester would mark and scale each tree that would be removed.  You would then have an accurate estimate of how much timber would be removed as well as the income.  Yes, you would owe a % to the Forester for his professional services, but it would assure you that your woodlot was properly managed.

And Welcome to the Forestry Forum, KYGirl.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2077
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Sawing so I can afford to farm.
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2018, 10:10:19 PM »
No matter who you hire, Forester, Logger, etc, do your homework and check them out. Ask for references, visit other jobs they have completed, talk with those landowners, and don't just speak with the people you are directed to. Around here we file a simple form when beginning a logging operation, this is filed with the Forestry Department and is publicly available, so if it's similar there you could possibly view a logger at a current operation so that you can get an idea of how things look, operate, etc.

Just like any other business there are good and bad out there, in addition some fit better than others with certain landowners. Just be sure to ask every question that you have before signing any paperwork. 

Welcome to the Forum, there are many members here who have years of experience and are willing to help you, just ask.
'92 Franklin 170 grapple skidder
'92 Franklin 5000 wheeled buncher
Wicked Awesome Basset Hound * 2
JD 490D with 4 roller FabTek processer / hydraulic hose breaker
Hot wife
Wood Mizer LT35HDG25, Re-saw attachment
Official Member of the BBFC

Online Claybraker

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • Location: White Oak, Ga
  • Gender: Male
  • Mostly New!
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2018, 09:07:39 AM »
My siblings and  I signed a timber sales contract last month. We used a Forester we dealt with in the past, he put it out for bid and we received 7 qualified bids.  I really like the idea of getting multiple bids.  If it takes a little longer to get the money, don't get frustrated, because your grandmother will probably make more $$ at the end of the process.  Trees keep just fine on the stump.

Online TKehl

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1005
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Sedalia, MO
  • Gender: Male
  • Certified Contrarian
    • Share Post
    • Kehlhof Ranch
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2018, 09:23:57 AM »
How many acres are we talking about? 

Do you have an idea of what tree species are there?
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline East ky logging

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Magoffin co Kentucky
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2018, 09:26:17 AM »
That's about the average going rate that's paid here in east ky. But a lot of that price depends on size of the place,terrain,road access,species and quality of the timber.

Offline timberking

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Age: 60
  • Location: marshall, texas
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2018, 09:55:22 AM »
What everyone has already said.  Educate yourself about the market, bring in a forester and don't get pressured into making a snap decision.  Not a crop of corn that has to come down today.  Good luck!

Offline KYGirl

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Location: Lexington, KY
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2018, 10:09:09 AM »
Thank you all for the warm welcome and your responses. It's 80 acres, give or take. I'm not sure how much she wants timbered at this time. She has some white oak and walnut--the other I'm not sure. She has contacted a few foresters in the past with mixed results. Most did not respond to calls, one said she should find someone more familiar with the local market (he was 90 minutes away??), and one told her that he would be happy to tag the timber, but that he didn't have much luck with sealed bids in our area.

East KY Logging--do you know of any foresters in the area? She's very near Magoffin Co.

Offline East ky logging

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Magoffin co Kentucky
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2018, 11:04:47 AM »
No. Sorry but I have never dealt with a forester since I've been logging. I just have known of one local job on private land that was handled by a forester. You might be able to check out U.K. Forestry department or someone from the Ky department of forestry. 

Offline square1

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
  • Location: Central Michigan
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2018, 12:35:54 PM »
Thank you all for the warm welcome and your responses. It's 80 acres, give or take. I'm not sure how much she wants timbered at this time. She has some white oak and walnut--the other I'm not sure. She has contacted a few foresters in the past with mixed results. Most did not respond to calls, one said she should find someone more familiar with the local market (he was 90 minutes away??), and one told her that he would be happy to tag the timber, but that he didn't have much luck with sealed bids in our area.

East KY Logging--do you know of any foresters in the area? She's very near Magoffin Co.
A search of "forester" on this site turns up 103
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=mlist;sa=search;search=forester;fields=name,group,email;start=0
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=mlist;sa=search;search=forester;fields=name,group,email;start=100
Click on the user name and you can see where they are, how active they are here, etc...

Online Claybraker

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • Location: White Oak, Ga
  • Gender: Male
  • Mostly New!
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2018, 01:01:51 PM »
Yep, see what services the State has to offer, with an eye to developing a management plan for the land. Raising a little cash is a valid objective,  and often you can increase the future earning power of the land with a well conducted harvest or screw it up for generations with a poorly conducted one.

Offline PineNut

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 707
  • Age: 80
  • Location: Lincoln Co, SW MS
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2018, 01:13:11 PM »
About 40 years ago, my sister and I had some timber to sell  in North Carolina. Several people made an offer on the timber, the highest being about $8k. We turned it over to a  forester to sell and after we paid his commission, we received $25k. It is best to let professional people handle it for you.

Offline Ron Wenrich

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13461
  • Age: 69
  • Location: Jonestown, PA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2018, 02:16:56 PM »
The Assocation of Consulting Foresters has a directory of members.  For Kentucky, there's 18 members.  You should be able to get some guidance from there. 

https://www.acf-foresters.org/
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Online Claybraker

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • Location: White Oak, Ga
  • Gender: Male
  • Mostly New!
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2018, 02:47:09 PM »
One thing that set my spidey senses all tingly is there's no low grade stuff, just saw logs and veneer.

Offline starmac

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2444
  • Location: Fairbanks Ak.
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2018, 03:42:46 PM »
Out of curiosity, exactly what does it mean that the land will be put back to master logger requirements?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline East ky logging

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Magoffin co Kentucky
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2018, 04:12:48 PM »
Being in the same general area as the logger that she was talking to I'm sure it's following the guidelines set by the Kentucky master logger program.  Pretty basic stuff like water barring the roads on slopes,removal of tree tops out of streams,sowing grass on landings, roads and stream crossings after you take the tiles out and things like that.

Offline paul case

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4754
  • Age: 43
  • Location: extreeme northeast Oklahoma
  • Gender: Male
  • Original wearer of the PCM.
    • Share Post
Re: What is typical in a timber sales contract?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2018, 04:50:31 PM »
The 33% sounds right on pallet and low grade and 50% is right on the veneer logs but we get grade saw logs and all walnut on 50% as well.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
timber contract problem

Started by timberjack97 on Forestry and Logging

19 Replies
1598 Views
Last post June 24, 2014, 07:06:40 PM
by CCC4
xx
need sample timber framing contract

Started by moose on Timber Framing/Log construction

0 Replies
1197 Views
Last post April 07, 2007, 09:35:00 AM
by moose
xx
Contract timber cutting - what to charge?

Started by Oddman on Forestry and Logging

41 Replies
2171 Views
Last post January 09, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
by Lumberjohn
xx
Timber sales in NE TX or NW LA

Started by pattilou on Ask The Forester

1 Replies
742 Views
Last post July 20, 2012, 03:28:37 PM
by Texas Ranger
 


Powered by EzPortal