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Chainsaw Mill Problems

Started by redhouse, March 22, 2012, 08:29:08 PM

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redhouse

Purchased a Panther Mill 2 for my Husky 2100, first cut seemed fine, took a bit of time. Second cut was a no go. Blade still feels/looks sharp, and I only cut 6' x 28" log on the first pass, using a brand new blade. Is this normal for chainsaw mills? Do you have to sharpen the blade every pass? Only way to get it to cut seems to be rocking back and forth, and this is leaving me with some really heavy saw marks.

beenthere

If there were any (or even a few) stones and/or dirt in the bark, then the teeth are likely in need of sharpening.
Or did you remove the bark before sawing?

Any pics?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

redhouse

Did not remove the bark, also no pics. It is a sweetgum tree if that helps. The first saw pass was not bad at all that is why I assumed it was the blade, even though the blade seems sharp to the touch/vision. Well if I do need to sharpen it again after one little pass maybe I better start looking for a bandsaw mill, sharpening every pass is to much trouble for me. Just can't believe after one pass it would dull it that bad. I mean second pass I was having to rock the saw back and forth hard, not to mention saw started smoking, just like if the chain where dull.

boatman

A stone or nail can blunt a chain quickly.  Is this ripping chain?  New?  Sharpen it and double check the depth gauges.

A chainsaw mill will cut multiple passes, gradually slowing as it dulls.  I just touch it up every 4 cuts or so...It really depends on the conditions.  I also ground skid the logs and they are dirty.

I am usually cutting red oak.  Pine is easy.

redhouse

I can not get a ripping chain where I live. I took it to a saw shop and had them make a chain up for it. I mentioned to the guy I wanted either a skip chain or a chain with a less than 30 degree angle. He told me he has been doing it for thirty years and I don't need a ripping chain, that is a waste of money and anything less than 30 degree won't cut ****. So I just got what he gave me, stihl chain with alternating teeth on either side of the chain. This saw is a 100cc monster and the chain is new, I took 20min setting everything up level using a straight aluminum ladder, still had some trouble as the motor end is heavy and seems to put that entire end of the mill in a bind. I had a helper run the saw throttle while I used the push bar in the middle to keep everything level and out of a bind. First pass saw bit in just fine and cut even for the entire 6ft. Second pass could not even get the saw to start a cut. The end near the motor grabbed hold but the other end wouldn't bit in, even with force. All I ended up with is a smoking saw. 50 bucks on a Stihl chain, you would think it would last longer than a 6' cut, or I am doing something wrong. Are chainsaw mills just a pain in rump, and I need to go buy a band saw mill, or is there something I am doing wrong?

cypresskayaksllc

Do you have a new bar? Maybe the bar needs some dressing or straightening?
LT40HDDR, JD950FEL, Weimaraner

ArborJake

 When you push real hard on a saw as it cuts you can cause the chain to wear the bar down uneven. The chain then sits crooked in the kerf and can't cut straight. Try cutting a log across the grain and let the saw pull itself in. If the bar is uneven it'll cut crooked. If that is the case it can be ground back even buts it hard to get perfect.
thick and thin lumber company. qaulity manufacturer of saw dust and slab wood.

boatman

I use chain filed to both 10 degrees and Zero.  The both cut well.   The Malloff grind cuts very well for me.

I use a 95cc saw and cut by myself.  I don't find it hard, but the set up is slow.  Cutting is the fastest part.

If the chain is sharp and the bar even it will cut.  I like using a chain saw mill, most of the time.

redhouse

The bar is not new, but in good condition. I used that saw to cut down this tree. The tree was topped out and all that was left was about a 6' tall by 30" diameter stump. I cut that stump in about 4 seconds using the 36" bar, and the cut was smooth/fast. Matter of fact, little to fast, almost didn't have to time to get outta the way, wasn't expecting it to cut like butter. Like I say, even the first mill cut was like butter it seemed to travel along by itself. Second cut everything seemed to be in a bind and after backing off the bar didn't line up with the marks it was making, that is why I had someone else run the throttle so I could keep the skid level and even on the ladder. So either my setup was wrong, or I dulled the chain faster than expected. The ladder is only 18" across and the mill is 42" so hard to keep level on the ladder, and the log is dirty. I will have to try a new way to get a guide that will hold more of the mill skid, and get the chain sharpened or go online and get a rip blade. Well glad to know it is something I am doing and I didn't waste my money.
Thank you guys for the input.
Still may want to look at band saw mills, my first cut that I made that did fine sure was rough, and took out almost half an inch of wood.



boatman

zero to 10 degree chain gives a smooth cut. 

Sounds like it might me a mill alignment problem.

I cut a nail a couple of days ago just 2 feet after I sharpened the chain.  The saw would not cut, after an inch or so.  Just stopped and turned a little.  5 minutes later I was cutting again.

customsawyer

First off you said the log is dirty. That tells me you might have missed most of the dirt till the tale end of your first cut. This says that the blade needs sharpening. It don't matter what type of blade you use if band mill, or chain saw mill when you start cutting dirt things are going to go down hill fast. If the chain is sharp it should almost feed itself. I have never run a chain saw mill but have cut lots of logs in half with a chain saw. It don't take much dirt but if you drag it all the way through your cut it will dull the whole chain.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

mikeb1079

yes redhouse something isn't right.  you likely hit metal or stone towards the end of your first cut or have some binding that's going on.   as has been mentioned typically the chain will dull gradually and you will lose cut speed gradually.  if you have to rock it or push very hard something is wrong for sure.  get a few chains and swap this chain out that's easy enough to try.  also, normal crosscutting chain is not what you want to use.  try woodland pro from baileys online.  they sell ripping chain 10 degree that gives you a much smoother cut and stays sharp just as long. 
good luck :)
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

colinofthewoods

I have done lots of chainsaw milling with an Alaskan mill.  As others have suggested,  it is a combination of not using the proper chain , and most likely hitting a rock or dirt.  It definately pays to spend the extra time cleaning your logs or removing a bit of the bark.

I don't always purchase a ripping chain, I just buy a regular chain and give it 5 or 6 good pulls with the round file straight across ( zero degro or almost zero ).  Then start milling.  Unless I hit something I will often give the chain one stroke with the file every cut or two.  It gives the saw a chance to cool down between cuts( milling is a great way to blow up a saw that would otherwise last a long time ),  and on my alaskan I could do it with out removing the saw from the mill.  After a few passes the saw will cut smoother and faster as you get more of the tooth closer to the zero degree. I also keep on top of the raker height ,  I use a Carlton guage , it looks like a thin piece of metal, with a few slots in it. It makes a big difference.

You could order a rip chain, and it might cut better out of the box , but it would be cheaper to modify a chain as I have suggested. It is in my neck of the woods anyways.  Sometimes I will fall trees with a new chain , then when it is ready to have a good sharpening I will demote it to a ripping chain,

MotorSeven

Red, I started out on a CSM(had two of them). You absolutely need to learn how to sharpen your own chains and keep them sharp. I did mine to 10 degrees, but as others have stated anything down to zero will work. Also, your lube should be 30 weight motor oil, not chainsaw oil...it's too thick for CSM.

A CSM can cut anything as long as the chain is sharp....it's slow, but it get's the job done.
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

captain_crunch

First Question is chain ground round or Chisle bit. Chis dulls at first sign of  dirt round ground is a bit more foregiving I never had any luck with chain unless sharpened 90 deg Sure makes me appericate old belsaw thinking back to Grandburg mill :-\ :-\
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

redhouse

I knew I could count on you guys to set me straight. I will from now on take the time to prep the log better; clean it, debark if possible.

Learn to sharpen my own chain looks like is going to be a must. No more running to the store for a sharpening that takes 2 days to get back.

I just got off the phone with Bailey's and purchased a match Oregon bar with a .063 rip chain. The old bar did have a few spots that hung the chain, just never noticed when cutting trees, but when slabbing it apparently caused things to go outta wak.

Any suggestions on a chain sharpener? Mechanical vs Manual?

Again, thank you guys for sharing your expertiese on the subject, I am very new to milling, but definately caught the bug...No turning back now, just gotta keep learning. :P

medic

Red
One more note on CSM.  The chain needs to be razor sharp.  When it drops down to just 'sharp' either touch it up or swap it for another chain.  Also watch the sawdust being expelled from the cut.  When it's more dust than chips it's probably time to resharpen.  I think everybody else has hit on most of the other possible issues. 
My $0.02
scott
Retired Paramedic, TimberKing 1400, Logrite cant hooks, old MacCullough chain saws.  Too many projects not enough hours in the day.

MotorSeven

"Any suggestions on a chain sharpener? Mechanical vs Manual?"

By far you can get a chain sharper by hand than machine. However, I am "down" to 7 saws now and I just plain got tired of doing them all by hand. northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company sells a very decent motorized sharpener so I bought one a few years ago. The grinding wheels that came on it were not too great so I replaced them with Oregon wheels. Now I sharpen all my own chains on the grinder, then touch them up out in the woods by hand after every tank of fuel. The grinder just made life easier.
I got mine on sale for $89, so you might want to wait until they put it on sale as it is full price right now:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200327449_200327449

One more tip, when you do hand file, file into the cutter, not away. Filing away causes a more fragile edge to the hard chrome coating(which is what does most of the cutting) which breaks off quickly leaving a divot and a dull edge. Filing into the cutter does not do that, so the cutter will stay sharper longer. Try it both way and go cut and you will notice a difference.
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

76gmc

granburg sells a 12volt bar mounted sharpener.

Hilltop366

What ever you get for a sharpener it would be good to have one that has a stop so you can make all the cutters the same length. It is best to have them all the same.

terrifictimbersllc

I do a lot of slabbing with my Peterson mill up to 5' wide.  Chain sharpness and uniform top plate angles are everything.  There is no cutting dirty wood, I brush the cut path clean with a wire brush if it is not.  I carry a dozen 196 drive link chains and put on a new one as soon as it isn't cutting like new any more which is usually after 1-3 cuts in 3-4 foot wide clean hardwood about 8-12 feet long.   Chainsaw driven chains with their higher chain speeds can tolerate more teeth in the cut than the slower swing mill slabbers. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

kpantherpro

Hey I know this is an older post but wanted to chime in as well, A lot of times when milling if the log has been laying for any amount of time without being sealed at the ends they can harden almost like petrifying, this will dull your chain considerably, some say by 70%, so if your cutting through the entry end then the exiting end, then again through the entry end on your next cut you've effectively dulled your chain by 210% so your first cut will go well, but obviously the next may not, I do suggest cutting 6-8" off of each end of your log if you didn't seal it when freshly cut down. Another common problem is a bent or worn bar, their were some good tips and words of advice in this post though so if your mill isn't cutting like it should, maybe go through here and see if any of this helps you.
You'll know when your chain starts to dull you should have nice coarse sawdust and or shavings, when you notice your sawdust  starts turning to a finer more powdery sawdust it is time to resharpen the chain. Also I set my  skip chain at about ten degrees, and file the rakers down slightly, makes for those nice curly q shavings.

HI Rancher

@kpantherpro

It's great to see a manufacturer invested enough in the efforts of their customers to read through old posts and make helpful suggestions.  Kudos to you for that level of commitment and dedication.  smiley_clapping

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