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Fixed up C4 vs 4WD Tractor - Thoughts

Started by g_man, April 27, 2016, 06:48:49 AM

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g_man

I have been keeping my eye out for a very affordable 4wd tractor, 60 hp or so, to use in the woods. I came across a supposedly fixed up C4 Tree Farmer that seems well equipped. It has a 100hp cummins, new clutch, and new pins. It also has a Holmes chain drive winch which I wonder about. I know nothing about skidders except what I have picked up on the forum. If IRC a C4 is a pulp wood special and is very light. What are your thoughts on how it would compare to a 4wd tractor for winter in the snow and ice and anything else you see.

Thanks

gg



 



 



 

Woodhauler

10,000 at the most. There is a bunch on C/L for 7-10 grand.
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

tacks Y

Seems like a lot of horses for that size machine? How heavy are they?

Gearbox

That's what I was thinking . 100 HP could tear up that old machine . If you run it yourself and take it easy on it it should be fine . Just don't open the throttle wide open with good traction .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Corley5

Does it have different axles?  The planetaries look different front to back?  Maybe?  It would be a nice old machine if it's limitations are respected  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

H.O.D.

I have a 55hp tractor I use for the woods and other uses year round..so have to be careful about saftey and damage to tractor so I dont have a lot of expense in repair. I  wish I had a small affordable skidder also . Yesterday I cut two firewood birch from beside a hard maple and left them on the ground, because of steep slope wont risk me or tractor. I vote for the skidder if its ready for work and doesnt need repairs.

treeslayer2003

a tractor is not a skidder. if you are buying just for the woods, get a skidder.

coxy

Quote from: Corley5 on April 27, 2016, 09:05:48 AM
Does it have different axles?  The planetaries look different front to back?  Maybe?  It would be a nice old machine if it's limitations are respected  :)
think its the way the sun is hitting them in the 2nd pic they are the same

tacks Y


g_man

Thanks for the replys so far. I know a little about tractors and winches in the woods. I have been using a one for years. This is on my own place doing small harvests, firewood, and TSI work. The thing I don't know about is skidders especially one with a Holmes winch which seems unusual to me. I also wondered about the 100 hp. Must be a turboed 239 maybe??

g_man


barbender

     Is it a 3.9bt cummins? You could probably "detune" it a bit so you don't bust anything on the machkne.  Isn't Holmes a wrecker winch? The winch is the heart and soul of a cable skidder, you don't want something shoehorned in there that wasn't made for the job.  My .02  ;)
Too many irons in the fire

g_man

Quote from: barbender on April 27, 2016, 11:51:42 AM
     Is it a 3.9bt cummins? You could probably "detune" it a bit so you don't bust anything on the machkne.  Isn't Holmes a wrecker winch? The winch is the heart and soul of a cable skidder, you don't want something shoehorned in there that wasn't made for the job.  My .02  ;)

Yes that is what I am worried about. I didn't know if this was common or a cob-job that may or may not be any good. He says you control the winch speed by the transmission gear and range you have selected.

gg

barbender

That's the same way my gearmatic 19 works. I guess it would depend on the line speed and whether a wrecker winch could stand up to the shock loads a skidder winch is subjected to. Wrecker winches don't have to hold the load in place going down the road.
Too many irons in the fire

g_man

Thanks barbender - that is very helpful. It gives me an idea where some of the pitfalls may be that I had not considered.

gg

47sawdust

g man,
I assume you took those pictures and have seen the skidder in person.I think this is the same skidder that was at Pete's tire barn getting new tires.If it is the motor mounts looked a little sketchy and I'm thinking it might be a barrel of money,to keep it operational.I might be wrong but for the asking price I'd keep looking for one that was more kindly used.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

g_man

Thanks for the heads up. There can't be to many that look like that and it does have new tires. Right now it is in Groton near the State Park. When did you see it at Pete's ?

gg

grassfed

I think that there is a design flaw with that machine. The winch is mounted in front of the articulation pivot and that seems like a bad idea. Wouldn't the cable length change when going around turns and couldn't that cause problems with a heavy hitch pulled up against the log bumper? Just an observation. 
Mike

barbender

Yeah, you're right, grassfed.  I would think that could cause an issue. It would be kind of like the old dozer arches that had to have slack let out to turn so the cable didnt snap.
Too many irons in the fire

kensfarm

If you are making a living by harvesting trees.. get the skidder..  if not I'd would go the tractor route..  I use a TN65 w/ super steer, 4x4,  diff. lock, FEL w/ quick connect..  4 ranges and 4 gears w/ electronic shuttle shift gives you 16 forwards and 16 reverses.  You have a lot of options.. from mowing grass to grading a road.  Parts are probably easier to get too.  There are lots of posts w/ tractor setups...  I'd still like to test drive that bad boy...  good luck w/ your decision. 

g_man

Good observation Grassfed. I can see that the pivot point for the cable on the drum is a ways back from the pins. I guess the hitch would drop in a turn them try to pick back up on straightening out. Seems to be lots to think about on this machine.

Kensfarm - I agree with your thinking but I already have a small tractor and the implements I need for work around the place but at times I wish it was bigger and had better traction/steering in the snow and ice doing woods work and could handle steeper terrain. So I am looking for something just for the woods that is bigger than what I have.

gg

starmac

I have spent lots of hours on farm tractors, from small to some of the largest, 2 and 4 wheel drive, you can get the job done with them, but they are not a skidder. If your primary use is the woods, I would be looking for a skidder.

We always had tractors with loaders, we beefed them up and heavily modified them, then the wheels were the weak link, so we had heavy wheels built, then would put much undo wear on the front ends, finally going to an old front end loader, which is what we should have done to start with, but got by with what we had.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

47sawdust

gman,
I saw that skidder at Pete's in March.One of the reasons it caught my eye was it was the same skidder that was listed on Vt. CL earlier in the winter.It was for sale in a different part of Vermont leading me to believe the current owner purchased it,did some work on it.and is reselling it.Why?,I have no idea.
You do good work and take care of your equipment so I'm sure if you really want a skidder you will find the one that's right for you.I know nothing about skidders but this one would make me nervous.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

g_man

Thank you. Your comments really help. I have learned some more about it and the winch arrangement is also really shakey as barbender and Grassfed suggested. So I am going to let it pass.

If anyone is interested it is 3.1 miles up Rte 232 (north) from Groten Center.

gg

lopet

I use tractors and skidder in the bush. Tractor especially because of the front end loader at the landing and for loading, mostly on smaller jobs .
The skidder I mostly use to brake new trails without worrying damaging a tire and it will go places a tractor won't.
But to me it's important how they are to get on and off.  You will find that probably nothing is easier to get on and off as your little Bota, but they have their limitations as you probably know.
Those old Tf are terrible for operator comfort, besides monkeying in the cab every time you will be hitting your elbows in those tiny cabs all they long, your left knee gets sore from putting the clutch in and out, and your right food gets sore from holding the throttle.  Ha ha ....
Yes I still have my C5.
I am not trying to talk you out of it just giving you at different point of view.
Does it have the 4 Bt cumminns in it  ?   If yes I too think that's a little much power for that little machine.     
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

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