Recommendations on a draw knife?

[Jeff]

I've got a couple hundred Northern White Cedar logs to skin back this spring. Anybody have any recommendations on the size and style of the proper draw knife to use, and a good place to locate one?

[Mooseherder]

I bought a couple of them off eBay a few years ago for around 20 dollars each.

[giant splinter]

Jeff,
My favorite is a Barr specialty tools Draw knife 12 " cutting edge, I have an old Stanley that is easier for bark removal with an 8" blade it is fairly easy to use. I don't do much of it so Im no expert and I bet the log cabin guys are the ones that would know the best brand and models for what you need. Here is a link with a lot of different styles.http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Draw-Knife-Selection/products/104/

[isawlogs]

A sharp one....  ;)   Jeff I would only saye to try to get one that is at least 16'' wide between the handles with a blade face of 1½'' to 2'' wide, it rides the wood a lot beter and is easier to get under the bark with out bitting to hard.  :P
  If by an enormous chance the bar seams to be lose, you  can use an old leaf spring with a pipe welded for a handle. The business end needs to be grinded round and sharpened some only to be able to get it under the bark.

  I have a Log Wizzard that I normally use to debark logs with, all except for cedar, the stringy bark will jam that thing up so quick, its just frustating to use.

[SwampDonkey]

How about a spud, can make one from an old truck spring? Any old abandoned trucks in that old 'bone yard' up there?

I have not peeled cedar, but the bark is quite thin and difficult to remove as Marcel has hinted to. But one thing, if you get a hold of a loose piece it will peal up the log a long ways because it's fibrous like hemp for ropes. If they lay a couple years the bark will fall right off, but then you have bug trails.  :-\

http://www.leevalley.com item# 65U05.10  bark spud  , item # 09A01.30 log builder's slick  ;D

[Seaman]

I have had someone tell me they used a pressure washer with great results, state of the log has a lot to do with how w ell that works I bet.
Frank

[Brian_Weekley]

Peavey sells 16 inch drawknifes and bark spuds that are still made in the USA.

http://store.peaveymfg.com/cart/category/1981/Logging_Tools/1/

[dukndog]

Jim Rogers has a few on the For Sale page here on the forum. All the tools I've purchased from Jim and Tom have been in great shape and very sharp!!

Rich Miller

[WDH]

John Neeman makes them, too. 

[thecfarm]

I am just wondering here.That cedar was just cut,I wonder in May and June if the cedar will even know that. Meaning will it start to try to grow and the bark will be able to peel right off. I have peel some cedar for posts for my Father and my projects. Seem like in had some hemlock that I cut in the fall and than in the spring I could peel some of the slabs and some of the big pieces I had to split into firewood.

[Left Coast Chris]

How long have the logs been down?

We just removed bark from some western red cedar.  Had one that was dead for 6 mos and one for 3 mos.  On the 6 mos tree, the bark had slipped and it came of in big pieces easily with pry bars.  The 3 mos tree was MUCH more work and left the bottom of the bark on the tree. Had to use axes and chain saw.

Suggest letting them slip before trying to peel.  If they slip a draw knife would not be used.  Still handy to have one around in case it is needed.

[LittleJohn]

If the logs are green,bark will easily come off with a SPUD, and it will come off in long strands
If logs are some dry, break out the drawn shave a sturdy vise/back
  Last drawn shave I got was from Rockler (several years ago ~probably $50 or so - I now feel I overpaid), but I was in a hurry as I just broke my hand-me-down draw shave that was more weld repair then draw shave.  I want to say the blade on the new draw was 9" or 10"; nice for working on the smaller (up to 7") cedar logs I used for swings.  Not sure what size you plan on working with but, also invest is a good sharpening stone and a pair of sturdy gloves - the sawdust from the cedar bark is wicked (might want to consider dusk mask if logs are realy dry)

[Dave Shepard]

I would personally buy a used one. I have some pics of used ones at the hardware store from this morning. I'll have to email them to myself later so I can download them to the desktop, then upload them to the forum. : The used ones here are $40 or $50 for the smaller ones, up to $140 for some really nice, really big ones, all very nice quality. I have never peeled cedar, so I don't know what to suggest to you. I peeled a lot of white pine and white oak with a long handled "spud" from the hardware store. I'll see if I have a pic later. Either way, it's going to be tough on the shoulders if it is stuck tight to the log. :-\

[Reddog]

My vote is a Spud, much easier on the back. You use your legs to power it.

http://www.baileysonline.com/Woodworking/Hand-Tools/Bark-Spud/Gedore-Ochsenkopf-OX-61-0500-Bark-Spud-Soltau-Pattern.axd

[Jeff]

Corley5 and I were talking this morning, and he was way ahead of me. I was going to get the bark off this spring, then crib the logs out of view for drying.  I think Greg had the better idea. Since each log is getting two flat sides with the sawmill, I should just two side them this spring. It gives me flats to stack in a crib, they will dry without having to remove all the bark right now, and when I do remove the bark, part of it will already be gone. I do have an old slick here, I wonder how it would work?


 

[SwampDonkey]

I'd sure hate to remove that nice patina off it. ;D ;)

[thecfarm]

Jeff how long are these logs?  Reason I ask a 8 foot log is much easier to peel than a 16 foot one. A spud has a slight curve to it and kinda shape on the edge. The shape part allows you to get it under the bark and work it off. I find out having another shape tool comes in handy too. Even if it's a big srew driver. Just helps to keep the bark up for the spud to go into. I think one of my brothers "borrowed" the spud we had. With me when I peel cedar I take the saw down the lenght of the log. BUT I am sawing for lumber,not an live edge or whatever you call it. The saw mark helps me get under the bark. Works on hemlock too.

[jander3]

Gotta go with Barr.  I have many draw knives.  Antiques, store bought, homemade, etc.   About 10 years ago i invested about a hundred and half into a Barr draw knife.   The heavy-duty, bevel down design.  Crap, it cut my log peeling time in 1/2.   


My Barr is pictured in my avitar.

[LeeB]

I have used a machete in the past for peeling cedar. Use it pretty much like a draw knife.

[mesquite buckeye]

Sounds like a ton of work, Jeff. That will whip you into shape for sure. ;D

Here is the best I have found. Solid forged steel with bolt through handles. I'm sorry to say that I don't know the manufacturer, but the twisted steel at the handle base is distinctive. They come in a variety of sizes from maybe something like an 8" blade up to this one, the real manly man edition with a 13" blade. I've peeled or had peeled logs up to about 20" with it, solid as a rock. I've even had the tool busters use it and it survived unshathed except for a few handle scratches. If you can find one, I recommend it highly.

 

I think I paid maybe 30-40 bucks for mine about 15 years ago.

The guys who do this for a living make really nice setups where they can sit or stand while peeling, with the logs solidly supported on cross beams set onto posts. Best of luck with your project. ;D

[LeeB]

I looked really hard and just can't see the picture.  ???

[mesquite buckeye]

Sorry Lee. Pushed the wrong dang button. It is there now. ;D

[Jeff]

mesquite buckeye Wouldn't that be a bevel up knife? I've heard that bevel down is the way you want to go for stripping bark.

jander3, I tried a quick google search, and didn't find a place to purchase. Is Barr a vintage tool?

[mesquite buckeye]

I have always used it bevel down, but it works either way. I just took the picture that way to show what it looks like. The other side is flat. ;D

I really like the long blade, as it allows a lateral slicing motion either straight on or with the knife at an angle. It is also nice to alter the holding angle as your muscles tire. ;D ;D

[Dave Shepard]

Most draw knives can be used either way. It depends on how aggressive you want to be. I probably use it bevel down the most, that way you can change the attack angle on the fly with just a little input on the handles. Bevel up tends to want to dig into the log.

www.barrtools.com is the Barr website. I've used his chisels, and while the style is a little different from the antiques I'm used to, the workmanship and steel is outstanding. I'd say it's the best steel I've used in a non-Japanese tool. I looked at the "large" knife. The pic quality sucks, they should to something about that. The knife looks rugged. I can't say for sure, but it looks like the handles are held on with nuts. That is good, because a lot of the old ones are just slipped onto a tang, and they can come loose.

I may have an extra knife in the garage. Let me check it out, if it's worth using, it's yours.

[t f flippo]

Knew I saw it somewhere......

Build Your Own Low Cost Log Home by Roger Hard has a nice section and commentary on peeling logs. Good pics and drawings of log building tools; peeling spuds and draw knives. I like his suggestion of an old short,d-handled garden spade modified as a spud to peel logs.

Log Building Tools & How To Make Them by R.D. Arcand  has great sketches. Including leaf spring drawn knives and
peeling spuds. Also a 'forged square nose garden spade' for bark peeling.

tc

PS   Would be great to have Purple Otter as a neighbor for this kind of stuff.

[giant splinter]

Jeff,
Barr Tools are in Idaho and the tools are hand made ....... here is a link      http://www.barrtools.com
The guy that Makes the axes for your auction also makes draw knives as you know and his are super nice.

[SwampDonkey]

Seems to be all kinds of sources. Even Lee Valley sell a couple, but they are Swede and Austrian. The Swede one is a long blade and the handles are not at 90, the kind of draw knife I'm more inclined to have, but very pricey around $250. Same folks that make the axes over there. Hand made as well. You don't have to grip a handle like on a 90 degree one.

[Jeff]

My Cabin dream is on a budget, so pricey tools are something I probably won't be able to swing. I am going to have to buy a good impact driver for the 12" log screws. Just that one things will be over a couple hundred dollars.

[Dave Shepard]

I found the one in my garage. It isn't pretty, but I think with a little work it will do the job. This one appears to be bevel down only. I'll see if I can get an edge on it this week.

[Jeff]

That would be great Dave!

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, I was just saying. Lots of things we would like but can't have. ;)

[LittleJohn]

Be careful draw shaving wet cedar, it tends to get stringy build up on the blade and can affect the cut and your patience.  Assuming you have any left  :D


...patience that is

[Jim_Rogers]

Jeff:
Tom Perkins, my partner in the tool business, was just here. I mentioned to him that you needed a draw knife for debarking some logs.

We have this 12" restored and sharp debarking or mast draw knife on the list for sale. And he said we should send it to you.



 

I'm boxing it up now and it will be in the mail today.

I'll pm you to get the correct address for the post office to deliver it to you.

Jim Rogers

[VictorH]

 smiley_clapping smiley_clapping smiley_clapping   To Dave, Jim and Tom

[Jeff]

This is great! I can return the knives when this is over too. Anyone that would like to bring a knife up and demonstrate how to use it on a log or ten will be welcome too! ;)

[WDH]

Jim,

That is so Cool!

[SwampDonkey]

Your volunteering I assume? :D :D

[TW]

I would recomend a Swedish Gränsfors drawknife if you can get one. I use a similar one from another long gone maker and it's curved blade and handles in line with the blade makes it ideal for barking. Much easier on hands and arms than an English/American style drawknife with angled handles.

[SwampDonkey]

Yep, that's the one Lee valley sells from Sweden. My #1 choice to.

[isawlogs]

 I have a few here, most come from auctions and are from days gone by. I have both my great grandfathers draw knives and both are very similar in size and wear, I also have a spoke shave from my great grandfather. I am sure he can find a draw knife at an auction that would be as good as any bought new today other then have been around for a long long time.
There is one thing most don't seam to understand, he is on a tight budget to get this dream up and going, spending a wack of money on tools is going to hurt that budget.

[Jim_Rogers]

I just got an email from the post office saying that the draw knife I sent him will be delivered today.
So he should have a very big package being delivered sometime soon.

Jim Rogers

[SwampDonkey]

Marcel, I think a lot of us are wishing and dreaming we had said tools mentioned and that's as far as it goes. I'd still probably buy the Swede draw knife just because of the ergonomics and not so much economics if I was building a cabin. I know, I know. :D :D

[isawlogs]

 Good on you Jim, ya know between any and all of us here, he would not need buy too many tools,  ;)  I also sent him a box not too long ago. 

[Jeff]

I't's here!  I've put the draw knife right along with the beam machine that Marcel sent, and they are eagerly awaiting action!

[TW]

Marcel
Sorry........ I am probably growing too accustomed to my damaged back so I was thinking more about ergonomics than budget in this case. For me the ergonomic difference between Swedish style or American style drawknife or bark spud is the difference between getting the job done or getting myself a long sick leave...........

[SwampDonkey]

TW, Jeff is eager to get the ball rolling, but he's not eager enough to abuse himself too bad. I have a sore shoulder lately, and I think it started from lifting/loading a 400 lb snow blower.  NUTZ! :-\

[LeeB]

lifting a snow blower will do a number on those two.

[Dave Shepard]

I once picked up a TroyBuilt Horse rototiller and threw it to the front of an 8' pickup truck. No, I don't wonder why I have back problems.