Forester troubles??

[CTL logger]

Started a new job this week moved processor on Monday, met forester for the property the week before after getting an hour long lecture about how he expects things to be done nothing was said about not cutting in the rain he was more worried about sfi training which my operator and I both have. Then on Wednesday he was back out with the company's forester showing one of the hand crews a block down the road, and says what's that noise and my forester says they are cutting up the road. And this guy responds if you guys think this is an all weather job think again, and as soon as I get done here I'm going down to read him the riot act. He already said he's not a fan of CTL equipment. So he drives to our block and marches around the woods can't find one thing wrong and never said a word to my operator just left all disgusted that he couldn't find anything wrong. I figure it's a matter of time before he shuts the job down. How can you ever keep someone happy who is just itching to yell and scream at you?

[snowstorm]

you cant. some just need to complain about something or anything

[thecfarm]

Matter of time before he finds SOMETHING wrong. Looks hard enough he'll find something. Lucky him that he can choice what days to work and what days not too. Guess he has no bills or needs to put food on the table.   :    Sounds like someone to avoid,if all possible.

[mark686]

I have a question I have been hearing a lot about CTL equipment and I am not good with abreviations so please tell me what it stands for. :

[NWP]

I have a question I have been hearing a lot about CTL equipment and I am not good with abreviations so please tell me what it stands for. :

Cut to length. Under the extras tab above, there is a dictionary that has a bunch of wood lingo in it.

[barbender]

Cut To Length- it is a 2 machine system where the first machine (the processor) cuts the tree down, and then cuts the tree into the desired lengths, delimbing it in the process. Then machine #2 hauls the cut products from the stump out to the landing, or roadside, or whatever it is called in your area :

[NWP]

Cut to length. Under the extras tab above, there is a dictionary that has a bunch of wood lingo in it.

I guess I should have checked first. CTL isn't in the dictionary.

[beenthere]

There are some videos of the CTL operations.
Here is one roadside
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqEAecJ-6lU

[SwampDonkey]

I don't like to see a road torn up neither. Especially if it's a shared road and on public land. If it's just the hauling of the wood at play, I'm less irate than fellows using the road bed as a wood yard and destroying the road. I never thought that harvesting in steady rain was all that good for the land. Not really a good practice if following 'best management practices'. There's my lecture. ;D

[Jamie_C]

Harvesting using a single grip harvester doesn't do any more damage in a rainstorm than it does on a dry day, the machine travels on the brush mat it creates while it is processing. Forwarding during heavy rains can do more damage but a lot of that depends on soil properties and how heavy of a brush mat you are travelling on.

[SwampDonkey]

Not all sites are harvested CTL, mainly grapple skidder and processor in this area. Ruts are common, we have to step through ruts when brush cutting. Even ruts on well drained ground, aside from ruts in bogs/moss. I see a few CTL operations with brushed trails, it is very difficult to thin those sites. Try thinning and stepping around in that brush pile. It is also outside the trails besides being in the trails. You will not be thinning much of it before you decide on a career move. ;D

[thecfarm]

barbender,that's how the guy that cuts for me does it. Everything is done in the woods. It's all CTL when it hits the landing.

[Jeff]

Cut to length. Under the extras tab above, there is a dictionary that has a bunch of wood lingo in it.

I guess I should have checked first. CTL isn't in the dictionary.

Now it is.

[Nemologger]

I had a forester on a job once that would come out once every 3 weeks and visit, talk about fishing and such. Never walked around and checked anything, just wasted a couple hours of my time. After I finished the job I called him for a final inspection but he said he couldn't make it and to go ahead and pull out. A week later he calls me and tells me a skid road on a slope needed a couple more water bars.
I would much rather a forester be out once a week and actually check things.

[CTL logger]

It wasn't pouring rain it rained the night before and it was damp out. I guess it really fries me that this guy acts this way when 7 years ago he's a sawmill forester aka timber buyer and his only concern then was keeping logs flowing into a mill. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

[CTL logger]

Just a little update I called this guy this morning said I wondered if we can make the landing on the edge of a old strip mine, he replies I don't like your type of operation you get too much done I'm more of a cable skidder and chainsaw kinda guy. The contract doesn't say a thing about cable skidder only probably can't that would be discrimination I guess. How about you tell someone this before you permit and move two pieces of equipment onto a job. Oh andvhe says I'll have to look at this field where you want to land might make it there by Wednesday afternoon just sit tight and waitvya that's what I'll do.

[stumphugger]

I worked as a forester for logging operations.  I'd like to hear his side of the story too.  I'll admit that there are folks out there who really get a kick out of that kind of control.  I always tried to remember what it was like when my dad didn't work--he worked on big construction projects which could be seasonal and have layoffs.  So I did my best to head out as soon as I could, and even beat the rigging crew and fallers a few times. 

There are different soil types and some places will drain well while other places will mud up.  Maybe you and he could come up with some guidelines, like how much rutting is acceptable, even if you do ride on the slash, it might sooth his ego.  Here, we used 6" deep by 10 feet long, and when that was exceeded it was time to shut down.  Landings?  For guys like that, have several laid out for him to approve in one trip.  The same for skid trails if those have to be approved.  Work him hard while he's out there.  Try to educate him in a subtle way.  I dealt with some big egos and would start with or end with the phrase, you probably already know this.  That's a phrase that saves face for the other guy.

Yeah, I liked working with skyline logging, but that didn't mean I ignored or whined about the ground skidding units.  That's not a very good excuse.  CTL is easier on the ground, but takes somebody who understands that straight is a good thing and the fact that equipment can ride up on top of the slash.  What I hated was that I throw like a girl because, well, that's what I am.  The Get My Attention While I'm Running The Processor By Throwing A Stick In Front Of My Windshield method was a fail for me.  I couldn't throw far enough.  So, I had to walk out and be in the side zone that was safe, wearing a bright vest and hardhat. and hope to be seen eventually.  That can take a while for some operators.  I thought of getting a flare gun, but that would start fires when it was dry.   ???

Have you talked with his supervisor? 

[Full Chisel]

Started a new job this week moved processor on Monday, met forester for the property the week before after getting an hour long lecture about how he expects things to be done............. I figure it's a matter of time before he shuts the job down. How can you ever keep someone happy who is just itching to yell and scream at you?

Taking an hour long lecture without getting paid for it was the first mistake. If you wanted a lecture on your time, you could go to college.

If that clown act came out on our block again, I'd tell him to go get his supervisor.

[enigmaT120]

What would the guy have against ctl?  The places I've seen it down around here look pretty good.  I guess a sloppy operator could scar up a bunch of leave trees, but skidders do that, too.  The logs would stay cleaner.

[Texas Ranger]

There are poor foresters, and there are poor loggers.  The best it can be is if there are understandings and agreements before the first piece of equipment hits the ground.  Then the forester should be there the first few days, and drop by unannounced during the rest of the cut.  The logger and forester, and owner, need to talk during the harvest, a least a couple of times a week.

Trust, but verify. 

[stumphugger]

The hour long "lecture" is often called a prework or preop meeting.  This is the time that protocol is discussed, agreements made,
any immediate problems discussed, etc.  Or should be.  Then, everybody goes home with an idea of how to work with each other. 

[OlympicYJ]

Yeah your forester isn't all that great. Doesn't matter if your the landowner forester or the mill forester. If your logger has a problem you get out there as fast as you can. Every side gets visited once a week minimum even if it's your best logger and he doesn't need it it still keeps you up to date on things. You can't go for two weeks and stay on top of things.

Some WA DNR foresters are bad about this. We company foresters call em up and ask them to come out and check things off so we can move our logger out. Doesn't happen, logger moves out then they go and find all these problems that would have been allot easier to fix before the logger left.

Being against CTL only shows his ignorance. Cheaper and more efficient is the name of the game. Like stumphugger says prework is the place to cover any concerns either party has and figure out an operational plan. Hiya Miss P!  ;D

[Full Chisel]

Yeah your forester isn't all that great. Doesn't matter if your the landowner forester or the mill forester. If your logger has a problem you get out there as fast as you can. Every side gets visited once a week minimum even if it's your best logger and he doesn't need it it still keeps you up to date on things.

Yup that's right. And bring donuts.

[gologit]

Yeah your forester isn't all that great. Doesn't matter if your the landowner forester or the mill forester. If your logger has a problem you get out there as fast as you can. Every side gets visited once a week minimum even if it's your best logger and he doesn't need it it still keeps you up to date on things. You can't go for two weeks and stay on top of things.

Exactly right.  You have to be there and you have to communicate.  If a job was going to be shut down for wet weather it seems like that should have been mentioned in the pre-work meeting.

I agree with whoever said that while your forester is there you should work him, or her, hard.  Ask questions, ask everything you can think of and then those little last minute surprises can be be held to a minimum.

[stumphugger]

Donuts are good if you have a bakery nearby, but we don't.

I made cookies.  Our local loggers really appreciate good cookies and I bribed them with cookies to get things done, like pulling me out of the ditch when I got stuck because good parking spots can be few and far between.

Coffee for preop meetings too.  Those meetings can go on longer than an hour if there are new things in the contract or a new to the area logger.  Good loggers know this and they use this meeting to find out what procedures are for things like having to cut a tree that isn't marked due to safety concerns--when the forester isn't there.  They get that in writing, and everybody signs off on what was gone over.