iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Timberjack grapple skidders

Started by Plankton, January 11, 2024, 02:44:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Plankton

I am skidder shopping just farm use though we have 150acres of good timber to manage.Ive logged commercially for other people/myself most of my working life.

Owned a 664 clark for around 10 years now just getting into cutting more seriously on my own property and Im thinking of taking the plunge and upgrading out of the 70s haha.

I want a dual arch grapple with a winch. Pretty much settled on timberjack before they went john deere I think...

Done a bunch of reading on the forum but school me in the model and letter differences.
As far as I can sort out a 450c is still a timberjack which means I can get parts at napa. Which is what I want. Id like to get into a full cab heat etc. But skip emmisions or primitve electronics and the whole works. Id love a 6 cyl. Cummins good winch and some sort of reliable transmission.

Theres a pile of 460cs and ds for sale near me are they the same as a g3 series john deere? I chopped for a 548g3 a few years back and that was a great machine worked for the guy for 2 years and it literally never broke down. I just cant seem to figure out where the transition point was and again really dont want to have to go to deere for parts because my local dealer is helpless.

Budget is limited so im not looking at anything that new and nice right now.

Basically is there any years or model numbers I should steer away from in the pre emmisions era green timberjack/john deere skidders

ehp

Barge will know more on the early 460's as he has or had some , 450C is a good skidder but just like a 460D they are quite large in size , Are you ok with a pretty huge skidder in the bush

Plankton

Yes size is not an issue until its too large for fuel usage etc. If my roads arnt wide enough I will make them wide enough. Ive spent a few thousand hrs in a timberpro 830b forwarder and put it in some spots a cable skidder should have been so not too worried on  size in the woods though 30.5s on a 460 size machine is about my limit for actually wanting to buy one. Have mostly select cut to do and all chainsaw hence the winch. I do have established (small) skidroads everywhere on the property.

ehp

My 460D is 10 ft 6 inches wide and for here thats pretty wide  and as far as fuel goes I find it burns about twice the amount per 1000 feet skidded as my 230A with cummins . Yes heat and a/c are nice which the 460D has but I mainly use the old 230A , its gets around fast and does not hurt the bush in any way

BargeMonkey

 I had a 450C in 12-13, wasn't a bad machine, they pull good, cabs are decent, basically 100% mechanical, they do SUCK to work on. Shifter on the dash, they put wood out. When you start talking 460s, there's 3 series of them in that 96-2000ish span, I've only ever seen a couple true C models with the single joystick. Cabs where a touch diff, limbrisers, dash. The one on the right was a change over model, was a late 98, the one on the left is a early 96 model I still have.



You can still get all the parts for a 460 Jack except a factory wiring harness, coils, shifter, everything else is around. If it's been run without windows for any period of time walk away. The wiring isn't crazy on them. The newer ones had 3 tab centers, the better blades, certain stuff.
That G3 is 9-10 wide on 24.5s, the 460 is basically 11' dished out on 24.5s.


 
Anything 01 up is a deere, they ride nice, easier on fuel, not bad to work on. Certain quirks when you start comparing all of them. Personally a 96-2000 460 would be my pick of the 3, G3 wont climb like a 460. I would avoid the CTR / Blount copies, certain dealers wouldn't even take them on trade. I've got the factory books for a 460, G, G2/G3 if you do buy something.

Plankton

Thanks for the info bargemonkey! I think im going to look at a 2000 460c next week

Plankton

Did they have different transmissions in them that are more or less desiarable? Thats my biggest hold up with something breaking. Not worried about motors I know a excellent HD engine rebuilder around here and everything else is relatively simple to fix on skidders in my experience other then wierd wiring issues.

B.C.C. Lapp

Quote from: Plankton on January 12, 2024, 11:49:04 AMeverything else is relatively simple to fix on skidders in my experience other then wierd wiring issues.

That ain't ever been my experience at all.  Tractors are easy to work on, most of its right out in the open.  But often working on skidders you kinda have to be a contortionist with tiny hands that never get cold cause it always seems like the last bolt you need to get to takes longer than all the others and it usually happens on the coldest days.   Plankton you must be a pretty good mechanic.  smiley_thumbsup 
Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf.

Plankton

I wouldnt call myself a great mechanic but I can fix things. By relatively simple i mean lying in mud/snow and swearing but at least theres not laptops involved  :D

BargeMonkey

 Clark 6spd 24000 trans. You can tell pretty easy looking at a 460 if it's been pounded. True C model is going to have actual guages, limb risers are a little diff, 3 tab centers. Data plate is right on the fuel tank as you get in the door. I would open the fuse panel, lower left cab corner, and the "Go home" switch cover which is to your right down low sitting in the seat, just see what the condition of everything is. They don't have a cold weather cut out, park the arch and blade in the air as high as you can, when you go to crank start dropping the blade, it helps. Nothing else real crazy, check the cradle, snubber. If it's a 2 stick they honestly aren't bad to get used to, kind of less to go wrong.

mike_belben

I dont know skidders and this may not even be an option on the iron you are considering but in my experience adding a turbo to any diesel way ups the fuel consumption.  My komatsu has a bosch pumped inline 6 non turbo diesel that is often called the komatsu cummins even though it isnt a cummins.. and it sips fuel.  Has more than enough power to where i dont ever go full throttle for fear of the loud metallic bang $ound, and it never fails to do the push or pull even at part throttle.  Only 80 horse and i dont use them all.  The dozer is comparable in fuel consumption to either of my detroit 353s and if it wasnt id know because i fill every machine with a 5 gallon jug.  I dont think i can last long enough to burn 10gallons a day of fuel in any one of them.


The 648G3 i drove for a while was full of turbo hiss and pith and it liked to drink.  It had the power to fly up hills with a hitch which was only cool because it wasnt me feeding it.  My experience with non turbo headgaskets is they fail from age. Turbo ones fail from boost.  If it were an option, for non production id go without turbo.  Its one more part to sieze or scatter and cost a grand or more respectively.
Praise The Lord

ehp

I found anything with a clark tranny is very solid , the clark or older tj that had the 3 or 4 speed were pretty much bullet proof , the thing with turbo is 99% of the guys never give it a chance to idle or cool down, where I grew up driving skidder you were told once not the shut skidder off until everything cools , you do it again and your not driving a skidder ever again, I have seen  guys that shut the skidder off to talk to the cutter and a turbo would last about one year , guy that takes care of his stuff can go easy 15 years ,

Just me but I know if I had a choice I would take a 450C over the older 460's , 450 is very simple so not much to go wrong . I looked at some older 360s and 460s and they seem to have the same problem, the bottom center hinge were broke and welded back into the frame 

BargeMonkey

 The 460s get a bad reputation because they where run with the cabs open, shifter and harness getting soaked all the time. Compare them to a E-G model deere and they where ahead of their time on stuff. Local guy who bought my other 460 had Andy come due the trans a few months ago, said it wasn't horrible, take it all out together.


 

barbender

 I'd agree on the hot shut downs hurting turbos. I do my best to never shut down a working engine, but give it a couple of minutes idling. One place that is tough is a processor, you throw a chain and need to shut it down to replace. It's really not practical to let it idle a bit. Or every time you blow a hose. Or whatever else🙂

Mike, I think you may be right, at least in some circumstances. That being, when the engine is overpowered for the work it is doing. But if the engine is pressed for all it has (and it isn't enough) a turbo can actually decrease fuel consumption.
Too many irons in the fire

Plankton

The timberpros ive run have a 3 min i think? turbo cool down counter that comes up on the screen when you idle down helps remind guys that dont do that normally.

ehp

There is enough 450C up north but I have not seen many with a/c in them, most have nothing or maybe heat

Log-it-up

On my 648E the sticker in the cab says to let idle for 5 minutes before shut down witch I've seen in many other pieces of equipment,on the restart for a stalled engine is to immediately run at half throttle for two minutes to cool the turbo down (with no load) I think fuel consumption is a lot to do with the skinny pedal in the cab if you let the machine do the work it was designed to do most of them are pretty reasonable on the juice

Kodiakmac

QuoteThat ain't ever been my experience at all.  Tractors are easy to work on, most of its right out in the open.  But often working on skidders you kinda have to be a contortionist with tiny hands that never get cold cause it always seems like the last bolt you need to get to takes longer than all the others and it usually happens on the coldest days.   Plankton you must be a pretty good mechanic.

AMEN to that, B.C.C.P.Lapp!   Anyone who has had to do a head stand with one shoulder in the well over the rear axle of a JD440, with his legs contorted around the arch, while trying to wrench off the nuts securing the winch to the frame in a 3 inch space can only come to one conclusion: that said skidder was designed by engineers who had a serious grievance against the success of North American Industry. :D
Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
Kioti rx7320, Wallenstein fx110 winch, Echo CS510, Stihl MS362cm, Stihl 051AV, Wallenstein wx980  Mark 8:36

ehp

If thats a problem then you sure do not want to work on the old JD 740 with 2 winches cause the hdy. lines in the engine part of the skidder can take up to 8 ft of 1/2 inch racket ext to get the flange bolts on those lines a part so you can replace it

barbender

 Whoa, that's even worse than the starter on my 01 Duramax. That was the most extensions I ever had connected, the procedure was starting to resemble connecting drilling rods😁
Too many irons in the fire

Plankton

I will say the worst skidder Ive ever had to wrench on was a 440 john deere. My clark you can have the engine out in a few hrs and can get to just about everything.

mudfarmer

apparently the 440 engineers didn't know anything but stubby wrenches existed at the time, and they had 6ft arms with tiny little hands  :D

Thank You Sponsors!