iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

New chainsaws compared to old chainsaws

Started by blkhillsvt, March 02, 2011, 08:40:19 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

HolmenTree

Quote from: BigJake on March 07, 2011, 11:01:47 AM
Hi guys,
   If I didn't use a saw that much, I'd try and find a well maintained early 90's 262xp
Welcome Big Jake ,its good to talk to a veteren cut and skid pieceworker who is still cutting today. I gave it up 20 yrs ago when the processors took over. I started cutting in 1974 with a Jonsered 621. I run a residential tree removal service now, past experience sure helps me out. On another site I tried to explain to a bunch of city arborists about "common or natural lean" in a forest setting and these "know it alls" thought I was crazy. Only one logger from Denmark backed me up and agreed with me [he was the most experienced in logging].

I know an old fellow in my hometown here who has a brand new 1993 Husqvarna 272XP that has never cut a stick of wood. He only idles it for a few minutes every year to keep it from seizing. I have 372s and 3- 576s like you but I may have to by that 272, looks like a real nice saw to keep as a collector saw.

Willard. 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

BigJake

On another site I tried to explain to a bunch of city arborists about "common or natural lean" in a forest setting and these "know it alls" thought I was crazy. Only one logger from Denmark backed me up and agreed with me [he was the most experienced in logging].

Thanks for the welcome. So, are you saying that they didn't believe that every tree leans at least somewhat in one direction or other? That's absurd. Anybody who's ever walked in the woods should be able to see that every tree tries to get to the most sun, wherever it may be.

Spike60

Willard is right about the 181 and 162 being groundbreaking designs. They both had 20 year runs, and their basic design philosophy is still being used today by most everyone. I don't think of these saws as "old", but as still comtemporary designs that are a generation or two back. I think in terms of Modern, Old, and Antique.

It's kind of like Weimedog pointed out; so much of this discussion depends on what you mean by "old", and most of us have a slightly different view. To me, a Jonsered 49SP could be called old; due not just to it's actual age, but to it's basic design architecture. But run one, (and I do regularly), and it really doesn't feel like an old saw. Some saws like the 630/670 and 266/272 family just hit the mark so well that they are still held in high regard. But it's not necessarily an old vs new thing; it's just a great saw. I think the 2171/372 family that replaced it was a noticeably better design. Guys absolutely love them, and I never hear them wish they could still buy 670's and 272's. That's not always the case. The 385/390 is a great saw, but guys who ran 288's still mourn the fact that they can't get them anymore. So a 372 guy would say that the newer stuff is better, while a 288 guy would say he prefers the older saws.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

John Mc

Quote from: BigJake on March 08, 2011, 04:09:44 PM
Anybody who's ever walked in the woods should be able to see that every tree tries to get to the most sun, wherever it may be.

I read some where that Pine and some other species don't grow towards the sun, they grow away from gravity. It's one of the reason they tend to grow straighter and more symmetrical than most deciduous species. They are descended from more primitive tree species. It wasn't until later that some species developed the "improved" strategy of growing towards the sun.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

HolmenTree

Quote from: John Mc on March 08, 2011, 08:06:57 PM

I read some where that Pine and some other species don't grow towards the sun, they grow away from gravity. It's one of the reason they tend to grow straighter and more symmetrical than most deciduous species. They are descended from more primitive tree species. It wasn't until later that some species developed the "improved" strategy of growing towards the sun.
Hi John, I'm not trying to derail this thread with tree biology but I have to say a pine is a conifer not a decidious [I think you may just have misprinted it]
But I can speak with the "urban arborist folks" here about for example what you explained about "growing away from gravity" and "growing towards the sun". In tree biology responses in growth to gravity is called "geotropism" and growth angles toward sunlight is called "phototropism".

But up here in the northern boreal forest most all of our trees on level ground have a common lean towards the SE. I believe you folks in Vermont share the boreal forest also.

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

John Mc

Willard -  no misprint. I didn't say Pines were deciduous, I said they tend to grow straighter and more symmetrical than most deciduous species. (I probably should have said most conifers, rather than singling out pines).

And yes, I'm familiar with the terms phototropic and Geotropic. I tend not to be the one to introduce those terms into conversation, since some of the folks I deal with just think I'm trying to be pretentious when I say it. I brought up the subject in response to Big Jakes comment about every tree trying to get to the most sun as a means of explaining why trees tend to have a common lean. That just doesn't explain it for me when you are talking about geotropic trees. There must be some other reason, but I don't know what it is.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Smurf

Blk:
Just my 2 cents have cut fire wood for over 45 yrs. If you are serious about cutting eg: 10-20 cords (Hardwood) then you had better look at a newer saw unless your are experienced within small engine repair. The Older Stihl & Husky 266 SE or .030 were great saws but part sourcing could become a burden . As Shinn has advised a Solo , Efco and Dolmar make very good Prosumer or Professional Series units also. However Dealer Quality sometimes is sketchy . If you have the $$ J-Red , Husky and Stihl are still the solid
Manufacturers with established Dealer Networks within North America . Have fun with your selection process , seems like a lot of experienced forum members with yrs of wood cutting behind them . ;)

1270d

I would also have only run Husky's and don't know a whole lot about stihl.   I can attest to one thing though, after running two gallons/gas a day for close to 2 years.  I would much rather have one of the new generation saws.  In my case this was a 385.   It was a huge step up from the 288xp.   288 has much more torque, while the 385 revs.  The new motor mounting systems are just so much more superior.     
Your arms are at least two inches longer after a day on a 288  ;D

Myhome

Hi all new here and just getting my bearings. First never have used a chainsaw so here's my question, have been looking at a used Homelite Super2. The seller says it may need a new chain.  
Is this a decent chainsaw and is the chain easy to change? I have been looking at reviews , but reviews can be skewed so thought I'd ask the group.

Ianab

It's not a saw I would give to a new user, or even use as a daily tool. No modern safety features like an inertial chain brake etc. I think the later ones had anti-vibe handles, but the first 70s vintage ones didn't. Plus being a top handle saw is a bit more risk for inexperienced users. 

Would likely be better to look around for a more modern saw, like a small Echo or similar. Something built in this millenium... 

All saws let you swap over the chain and bar pretty easily. It's something you often need to do in the field, especially if you try and cut a rock or nail (which you eventually will). It's usually a couple of nuts and the bar and chain come off the saw.  Just make sure you put the chain back in the right direction, they don't cut well backwards. (Don't ask how I know this  :D )

Also plan on a sharpening kit, and some safety gear. The chain WILL get dull, but that's 5 mins with a file and guide. And chains cut legs even better than they cut wood, ( Saw chaps should stop that). Ear and eye protection, saws are loud, and throw small bits of wood in random directions. And if you are dropping trees, then a hard hat. All in one forestry helmet is what I use, that way all the kit stays together on your head, even if I fold up the screen or muffs. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Pulphook

Think about this " MTBR"/ The Mean Time Between Repairs is what makes improvements in anything, including my body :o. In my old unit, the Tankers would whine about how often their tanks broke down. Forget this "oldies but goodies" junk.
My newish Stihls start easier, run better, are lighter with more torque than any my older ones from even the 90's. Though my old tree saw a 009 still does the job.
Hey, how many flat tires or blowouts do we know ?How few breakdowns of later vehicles compared with 20+ years ago.
New anytime.
Two wood stoves ( Jotul Rangely ,Jotul Oslo ) heating 99 44/100%
24/7. No central heat. 6-8 cords firewood from the woodlot /year. Low low tech: ATV with trailer, 3 saws, 2 electric splitters, a worn pulphook, peavy, climbing line for skidding, Fiskars 27, an old back getting older.

teakwood

Quote from: Pulphook on December 29, 2018, 07:09:32 PMMy newish Stihls start easier, run better, are lighter with more torque than any my older ones from even the 90's.


add good anti vibrations to it!!

Totally agree with you, always new!!

It's not that every new saw is always better than the saw before, but over the decades everything evolves and gets improved engineering. some things don't work and we learn from them. 

Beside the nostalgic factor, who wants to go back to run an old iron chainsaw, tank style which weighted a ton and had absolutely no operator comfort or safety!??
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

thecfarm

Kinda like those model A and T cars. Nice cars,but how many drive them 10,000 miles a year.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

lxskllr

Antivibe is a big plus of new saws. My first saw; an "old" Poulan Pro, wasn't even that old. I got it in 2012, but it didn't have any antivibe. I didn't notice it at the time, but after getting my 362cm, I'd notice my fingers tingling after using the Poulan for not that much time. I can run my Stihl and echo all day without issue.

HolmenTree

My first 30 years making a living witht a saw was with the old school rubber mount Jonsereds and Stihls.
Then at the time 15 years ago when I first discovered the internet I bought my first spring av mount Husqvarna a OE 372XP, then a 346XP,395XP,576XP 562XP, and a 550XP.
Then recently getting ready for retirement and slowing down my pace....nostalgia took over and I sold all my Huskies except the 562XP. Bought a new MS261CM my first Stihl with spring anti vibe and air injection.
Rebuilt my Stihl 066s and reacquainted with some old friends.

My next new saw will be my last, I'm seriously waiting for the fuel injected Stihl MS500i. :)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Inaotherlife

I bought new saws because my old saws were...old.

And then bought a couple of old top handles because they look cool on the shelf. And they were cheap. Real cheap.

I'd buy an older big saw though. Because I won't use it much, and can't justify spending a thousand bucks on one. 
I could get by with the new 50cc. But it'd be nice to have an old 70-80cc saw every once in a while. Maybe 1990-ish, depending on condition. Really as new as possible depending on the deal.

Al_Smith

90 ish to some might be old .To me it's relatively  new .50 ish is old and although I don't use them I own them .It's a battle just to get them to run in the first place .It's certainly not for everyone .If nothing else it gives you an appreciation for equipment made today .
Fire them up a couple times year ,maybe make a cut,back on the shelf .  

Pulphook

...and as we age ??? , we need those "easy start" and anti vibe and lighter saws for the creaking joints and lower strength.
No more +28"  bars or back breaking 660's to lug. Couldn't do it today anyhow. :-[
Hey, all you can do with vehicles in the past decade or more is change oil. I'd be lost without the computer reader to erase the "check engine" lights.
More reliable vehicles with FI, anti lock brakes, air bags, better rubber, etc...
Two wood stoves ( Jotul Rangely ,Jotul Oslo ) heating 99 44/100%
24/7. No central heat. 6-8 cords firewood from the woodlot /year. Low low tech: ATV with trailer, 3 saws, 2 electric splitters, a worn pulphook, peavy, climbing line for skidding, Fiskars 27, an old back getting older.

petefrom bearswamp

Old saws are just like old guys, overweight and not too reliable  and I am an old duffer.
Dont even like to run the new ones anymore but do when forced to, ie when my son or grandson isnt available.
Wouldnt touch even my old '93 Husky 61 anymore.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Inaotherlife

Quote from: Al_Smith on December 31, 2018, 08:51:45 AM
90 ish to some might be old .To me it's relatively  new .50 ish is old and although I don't use them I own them .It's a battle just to get them to run in the first place .It's certainly not for everyone .If nothing else it gives you an appreciation for equipment made today .
Fire them up a couple times year ,maybe make a cut,back on the shelf .  
Yeah I know that 90-ish is not all that old. But that's the point.
I got a couple of 70's top handles for sittin on the shelf and lookin pretty. And the old mean green 3400 is probably here to stay.
Forget who, but someone here has a big old Indian that I would make room for.
Anything else is for using.
Maybe 90-ish is too old. But I figure if a barely used one showed up for a really good price that at least it would have some modern features like useable anti-vibe, chain break, and a good filter.

HolmenTree

1990's?
I'd rather run these pre EPA1992 and '97 066 flat tops then a last year 2014 MS660.
A 4 year old 660 is half the saw of a 1997 and older 066.


Making a living with a saw since age 16.

ehp

I guess I am abit different , I started cutting with the old 922 hommy mainly. First saw I bought was the 2100 husky , liked it so bought 4 more . They were good saws. I got I think the first 181's that came to Canada , I got a pair of them and Husky ended up with both of those saws , nothing but trouble , coils , tank vents and carb . Husky replaced them with new ones and these worked good . 064 were a good saw to and the early 066, never liked the 660 . Thing is what I thought was the best saw keeps changing , I like some of the new saws and some not so much . The older I get I look for the lighter saws , the newer saws are not as easy to work on but run smoother in your hands , we will have to see how the new stihl 500i turns out


Pine Ridge

If Stihl was still making 044 and 064 I would have never had a reason to switch to Husqvarna, good power to weight and very little downtime the ones I owned.
Husqvarna 550xp , 2- 372xp and a 288xp, Chevy 4x4 winch truck

Bill

Although I had a couple used saws I finally decided to buy new , a poulan 245a, some few decades back. The A meant it had an automatic oiler and 45 meant 4.5 cid =  73+- cc's but pulling 24" was about it and it surely liked the 18" bars better . Although I needed to buy a powerhead off the net for parts about a decade ago I still like to keep the 245a running - on occasion. That's because I like running the 362 so much better with either 18" or 25" .

btw - I 'm getting older so prefer making two small cuts with a small saw  than one big cut with either of these . . .

btw2  - Happy New Year

leonid123

I have STIHL MS661, Husqvarna 550xp and Jonsered 2077 turbo and I do not see the difference between new and old chainsaws. A good thing is always good  ;D

Thank You Sponsors!