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MS460 carb?

Started by RMT, January 12, 2017, 10:07:32 AM

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RMT

Hi guys,
long time lurker, first post
Question can I put a 460 Magnum carb in as ms460, dual port muffler and turn this into a magnum?
From what I have read on here, the jet is bigger on the magnum. Will that create any problems?
On the parts manual i have there is there is 3 different carb parts numbers?


ZeroJunk

I don't think you would gain much from a bigger jet.  If the carb is set too rich it will not have any power, and any carb for that saw will furnish more fuel than it can use.

Dual port mufflers are cool and opening the muffler up will give you some more power on later model saws that the EPA restricted. But, you can accomplish pretty much the same thing by opening up the one you have.

joe_indi

The 046 carb was the HD14 (no limiter caps) while as the MS460 from 2003 onwards came with the HD16 which had limiter caps.
The carb for the 046, stock or Magnum had the same HD14 carb which had the 0.70 fixed jet which is removable.
The HD16 has a 0.68 Fixed jet which can be removed and replaced with a 0.70 if you want to use a dual port exhaust.
However, the differences between the HD14 and the HD16 are not limited to their fixed jets alone.
I remember reading one of those bits of information where it was mentioned that the other jet (progression jet) which is adjusted by the H screw too has been made a bit smaller in the HD16.Reason being to meet emission norms
What this results in is a barely noticeable bit of blank spot while the saw is revving up.
No, 4 stroking at full throttle will not compensate this, nor will putting a 0.70 jet. You might get that power at WOT but that bit of something as a Magnum revs up would be missing.
Being  self taught I cannot be very specific about this, but something would be missing.

Unless you start up and compare a 046 and a 460 you wont notice the difference, but there is a difference.

Having said all that, A dual port muffler, 0.70 jet, removing the mesh/strainer on the jet valve, a filing of the holes of the ignition coil to retard the timing slightly would take you as close as possible to the feel of a 046 Magnum.
However, if your budget stretches a bit more but a 461 carb, change the choke shaft to that of a 460, replace the 0.68 jet with a 0.70 jet, pull out those limiter caps and do a proper adjust.
The 461 carb has got a more generous low end jetting and the mid to high progression with this carb in a 460 is really sweet!
See picture below I have lined up three carbs of interest:

ZeroJunk

As far as that goes, I read an explanation some time back about why it matters where the high speed adjust needle is, as in 1 turn out is better than 1 1 /2 turns out. But, I can't jog my memory as to why.

But, I don't much believe you will cut any more wood with one carb or the other in the scheme of things.

joe_indi


ZeroJunk

Hi Joe, I was talking about chainsaw carburetors in general, not this particular one.


The gentleman made the case that the carb should be jetted or designed such that the high needle was in the neighborhood of 1 turn out when properly tuned rather than 1 1/2 , 2 , or more.

And , he made a case as to why which seemed to make sense at the time. But, my brain can't remember. I can tell you that he was a well known saw builder.

joe_indi

ZeroJunk,
That I agree with  100%!
If H screw needs to be turned in either way a 1/2 turn or more (from one full turn out), the fixed jet needs to be changed.
A leaner jet if it needs to be turned in (high altitude usually)
A richer jet if it needs to be turned out ( any area which lies below sea level)

RMT

Thank you guys for weighing in.
joe_indi ,The photos of the carbs was helpful, i had found your old post originally about the size of the jets which got me thinking. i have to say i will probably just throw on a dual port muffler, pull the caps , richen it up and head back to the woods.
thanks again,
Ryan 

joe_indi

Ryan,
It is not really necessary that you  invest in a dual port muffler right now. Just increase the diameter of the present muffler port to about 20mm (3/4" ?) to increase the exhaust flow, install a 0.70 jet and fine tune the carb.
After which, if you still want to you need replace only the muffler cover (with a Magnum cover)

HolmenTree

Great information Joe!

The 046 Magnum was a great saw. Here's one from back in the day.

This saw in this pic was a Arctic heated handle model.


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

RMT

 thank Joe for all the help. Question ... I would only want to replace the cover because the aftermarket muffler assembly (hyway etc)  internal baffles are actually more restrictive? 



got these photos from interweb

(Photos removed by administrator.)

joe_indi

Quote from: RMT on January 28, 2017, 11:56:05 AM
...........got these photos from interweb

(Photos removed by administrator.)

You need to upload pictures to a gallery here.

RMT

Hi Joe,
Thanks I am new to posting pictures.  I uploaded pictures to my gallery. Here they are .

Baileys NWP muffler


factory muffler

joe_indi

These are images of the Stihl Magnum Muffler.
I do have an after market muffler too. I will post pictures once I locate it.
The pictures you posted, the Baileys NWP muffler, It looks too restricted, more than the stock in the second picture.




joe_indi

These are unrestricted flow Magnum mufflers. The after market version has a spark arrestor screen. But the Stihl version is 100% 'Freeflow'




HolmenTree

Quote from: RMT on January 31, 2017, 09:14:25 AM
Hi Joe,
Thanks I am new to posting pictures.  I uploaded pictures to my gallery. Here they are .

Baileys NWP muffler


factory muffler

Looks like you labelled your muffler pics wrong.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

RMT

Joe do you know the brand on the aftermarket muffler in the picture? It looks like their is 2 choices out there Hyway and NWP.  I don't actually own the NWP muffler I posted a picture of .


I would like to buy OEM muffler but don't think I can get one any longer. I gave the parts guy the number 1128 140 0616 and he said "that is for Australia"...soo i can't get it?  In general I am kind of a sucker for OEM unless their is something that is made superior.


 

ZeroJunk

They are on eBay for $55. 

You can wallow all those holes out for free. May not be what you want to look at, but it would work out the same.

joe_indi

Quote from: RMT on February 01, 2017, 12:24:50 PM
Joe do you know the brand on the aftermarket muffler in the picture?
 

If you mean the picture I posted, it is a brand called VastFine.
http://www.vastfine.com/

ZeroJunk

I was mixed up. It is the 066 OEM dual port covers on eBay for $55 .

RMT

so I confirmed with my buddy who has the hyway dual port muffler, that photo i posted with the more restrictive internal baffles is correct.
It seems like it would be better to buy the dual port cover, hog out the existing hole and cut out the stock baffle?
? a 660 muffler wouldn't fit on a 460 would it?


sharkey

All Hail 'Joe~Indi' the Carb Master!


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