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Pics of your favorite style backstops/clamps?

Started by Verticaltrx, March 08, 2015, 03:03:47 PM

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Verticaltrx

I'm getting ready to build a new trailer and bed for my mill so I'm trying to figure the best style clamps and backstops to use. I want something good and solid for backstops that will remain square under pressure. I already have some cam style clamps but thinking of adding a couple screw style clamps along the bed as well, just for different options.

Is one clamp in the center of the bed enough, or do most people like multiple clamps? Also, what spacing do most people like for backstops? I was thinking a couple close like 4' apart near the center of the bed, then a couple more at 8-10' apart, maybe two more at 14' apart? (my bed will be 20' long for a 16'6" cut length)

Pics, thoughts, opinions would be great. 

Thanks in advance.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Robert Owens

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but when I ordered my Cooks mill I ordered a third arm and clamp spaced two feet from the other (2 are 8 feet apart) so if/ when I want to clamp and cut short logs/ crotch sections I have the ability to still have two clamps holding the log. So I would suggest at least three backstop/ clamps.

Larry

Two choices on motion for the back stops.  Either straight up and down or a rotation.  Straight up and down can catch and rotate a log before it gets to a cant.  Rotating style can both rotate and move a log.  I like the straight up and down but have only sawed a little on a mill with the rotating style.

Size matters when turning a big log, large cant, or a group of cants.  Longer is better.

My mill came with three four back stops but for my normal length of log the third fourth one was in the way so I removed it.  I like the two three remaining back stops about 5' apart so I can handle short logs.

One clamp works for me.  No matter how many I had, one would have to be in the center.  I frequently turn cants with it.  I also lift cants and spin them end for end on the mill to cut timber frame joints.

edited because I can't count
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

boscojmb

I like having the backstops on the side of the mill where the blade enters the log and the clamp (s) on the side of the log where the blade exits. After the first face is opened, this allows you to turn the log so that the blade is entering clean wood instead of cutting into the bark.

My mill is setup like this and it works great.  8)

Are you staying manual or adding hydraulics?

If you are adding an axle to a manual mill which will raise the height of the mill bed, safety becomes more important than ever.
I would make sure that the backstops and clamps can be operated without having to work in the log's path.
A log rolling off of a 2' high sawmill bed can be deadly. Make sure you are out of the way when clamping.
John B.

Log-Master LM4

Ga Mtn Man

Quote from: Larry on March 08, 2015, 08:03:15 PM
My mill came with three back stops but for my normal length of log the third one was in the way so I removed it.  I like the two remaining back stops about 5' apart so I can handle short logs.
Didn't your mill originally have four backstops?  Mine did.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

ozarkgem

mine rotate. work good. When I build I will use the same thing. Up and down would be good also just more complex to build.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Ga Mtn Man

"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: boscojmb on March 08, 2015, 08:45:35 PM
I like having the backstops on the side of the mill where the blade enters the log and the clamp (s) on the side of the log where the blade exits. After the first face is opened, this allows you to turn the log so that the blade is entering clean wood instead of cutting into the bark.

My mill is setup like this and it works great.  8)
<<snip>>

Really?  I always thought that you want the blade to pull the log into the backstops, not away from them.  Do you run with a minimum of two clamps, then?  I do like the idea of cutting into clean wood, however.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

thecfarm

Kinda looks like mine back stop. Accept mine is green.  :D  I think yours go straight up and down. I painted 3-4-5-6 etc. onto the stops. Now when I am cutting a 4 inch cant and the stop is at 3 I know I have an inch to clear it. I really made each one a little bit less than whatever is marked. Takes out the guess work and makes the flitches more stable too because I can get every inch out of the supports.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

JB Griffin

I've had both and I think I prefer the straight up and down, the rotating backstops have a tendency to scoot the log or cant around.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

tmarch

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 08, 2015, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: boscojmb on March 08, 2015, 08:45:35 PM
I like having the backstops on the side of the mill where the blade enters the log and the clamp (s) on the side of the log where the blade exits. After the first face is opened, this allows you to turn the log so that the blade is entering clean wood instead of cutting into the bark.

My mill is setup like this and it works great.  8)
<<snip>>

Really?  I always thought that you want the blade to pull the log into the backstops, not away from them.  Do you run with a minimum of two clamps, then?  I do like the idea of cutting into clean wood, however.
Which ever way, just better to have the backstop or clamp you can see the easiest higher than the off side.
Retired to the ranch, saw, and sell solar pumps.

boscojmb

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 08, 2015, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: boscojmb on March 08, 2015, 08:45:35 PM
I like having the backstops on the side of the mill where the blade enters the log and the clamp (s) on the side of the log where the blade exits. After the first face is opened, this allows you to turn the log so that the blade is entering clean wood instead of cutting into the bark.

My mill is setup like this and it works great.  8)
<<snip>>

Really?  I always thought that you want the blade to pull the log into the backstops, not away from them.  Do you run with a minimum of two clamps, then?  I do like the idea of cutting into clean wood, however.

I only have one clamp. It is more than enough. I cut a good amount of 26' material with it last summer. The single clamp worked just like it should, even on 26' logs.

A second clamp could be easily added, but I have not needed to.
John B.

Log-Master LM4

Larry

Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on March 08, 2015, 09:11:35 PM
Quote from: Larry on March 08, 2015, 08:03:15 PM
My mill came with three back stops but for my normal length of log the third one was in the way so I removed it.  I like the two remaining back stops about 5' apart so I can handle short logs.
Didn't your mill originally have four backstops?  Mine did.

Glad you caught that.  I've always had trouble counting past three :o.  Went back and edited my post to correct it.  The hree back stops I do have are in a little group.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Verticaltrx

I'm thinking I want to go with the straight up and down style. What I have now are the rotating type and they are tough to keep square when working at shorter heights.

Everything on the mill is/will be manual, so it should be pretty simple. I'm also debating between a screw type clamp or cam type, or maybe one of each.

Thanks for the info and pics so far, some good ideas there.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

justallan1

For the little mill I had, I added 3 stops that were vertical and adjusted with a "T" bolt. I liked them way better than the stock ones that flipped up. I put the first two at 2' apart and the 3rd at 6' from the first and had the 3 of them pretty much centered on the tracks.
The factory clamp/stop assembly made it impossible to have stops for loading logs was also one of the reasons that I made them.
I'm sure I'll build about the same thing for the new mill also.
I don't have any experience with the screw type clamps, but am wondering if they don't get in the way of the carriage on large logs?

kelLOGg

I have 4 squaring arms (only 3 shown in pics) and 4 clamps. The clamps idea came from FF.
Bob



  

 
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Rougespear

I would be really interested in seeing some pictures of how the rotating squaring arms are adjusted square to the saw bed.  I will be using the rotating design in my build (i.e. Woodmizer, Cooks), and I've been racking my brain regarding how to fab the adjustments so the backstops stay square over the 90 degrees range of motion.
Custom built Cook's-style hydraulic bandmill.

ozarkgem

the round stock (axle) and the bushing that will be rotating will have to be machined to a good fit. Mine were never intended to be used like I am using them and they had some play in them. I cut them loose and took the slack out of the bushing as if the log were pushing against it and took a square and lined up the arm and welded it. An old shaft from a hydraulic cylinder and a bronze bushing to fit would make a good rotating mechanism. They would wear good also.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

ozarkgem

Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on March 08, 2015, 09:27:44 PM
TK 2000 backstops:


 


 
 

 
Do you ever have the chain skip a tooth on the backstops? A neighbor has a TK and his does that once in a while. Maybe he needs to adjust the tension. I don't think its a big problem just every now and then he will notice one backstop lower than the others. Could be he is not raising it before he get the log on also.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

xlogger

They will skip a tooth, I've got one now that is just a little lower than the others. I need to move it up one tooth. Not a big deal fixing it just need to do it.



Ga Mt Man, you look 10 year younger behind that TK, I know Orange is your real color. ;D
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

Ga Mtn Man

That's not me in the pic! :D :D :D  I suppose I should take that as a complement since that guy is in his early 30's. :)
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

kelLOGg

Quote from: Rougespear on March 09, 2015, 12:31:45 AM
I would be really interested in seeing some pictures of how the rotating squaring arms are adjusted square to the saw bed.  I will be using the rotating design in my build (i.e. Woodmizer, Cooks), and I've been racking my brain regarding how to fab the adjustments so the backstops stay square over the 90 degrees range of motion.

On the MP32 the sq arm/axle is a unit welded as a right angle and the assembly aligned so that the arm is perpendicular to the plane of the bunks. The alignment is done by loosening bolts that pass through the main rails, adjusting the sq arm until a carpenter's square shows that the arms are perpendicular and re-tightening the bolts. Tension of the rotating arms is maintained by dropping a chip of nylon in the set screw hole (see pic) and torqueing the screw down. It works quite well. I can clarify more with additional pics if needed.
Bob




  

  
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Rougespear

kelLOGg: thanks for the pics... and I will never turn down more.  I am slightly grasping it.  As I can figure, the backstop end of the 2x2 tube is solid and rotates (somehow) and the other end on the opposite frame rail in the adjustment.  Do you have any photos of that area?  I'm assuming the smaller bolts on the top and bottom are for the adjustment and to hold the position while larger ones are secured.  How does the range of motion work?

To contribute to the original thread: I ran a manual mill with backstops that went up and down vertically with their height secured by hand.  I think the rotating design is superior as all the backstops can be tied together to move as a unit, thus simplifying the adjustment procedure.  Hence the reason why I'd like to replicate the Cook's design.  Flattery is a compliment right?  ;)
Custom built Cook's-style hydraulic bandmill.

kelLOGg

Rougespear,

All your figuring is correct, except the arm and axle are 2 x 2 x 3/16, not solid. The axle has a 1.5" solid rod plug welded into each end and fits inside the receivers in which they pivot. The receiver for the squaring arm end is fixed (held in place by two 1/2" bolts) and the other end (mounted in a short piece of c-channel tack welded to the main frame) is adjustable up and down & left and right. Once adjusted (by the 4 small adjustment bolts - see pic) the receiver is held firmly in place by two 1/2" bolts. The arms are actuated by hand and go through about a 135° arc; I have four and they are independent. Ganging them together, I think, is problematic unless the log is perfectly smooth. I rarely ever use all four at the same time; they give me versatility for long and short logs.

Good luck,
Bob



 
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Verticaltrx

Another somewhat related question:

I'm planning on adding toe boards when I build my trailer. How important/useful are roller toe boards vs standard ones?
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

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