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Woody Biomass Demand Update

Started by Gary_C, May 19, 2008, 12:10:29 AM

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WDH

In the market today, there is a balance between lumber production, chip production, and bark/sawdust production.  All the current by-products from sawing lumber are already spoken for in the market.  So bark/sawdust that is being produced today is not sitting around piling up in piles.  It is being sold already as boiler fuel and other products.

Therefore, woody biomass to meet new demand for energy production will have to come from new sources of supply, or take over the existing supply and drive the current users out of business.  New processes will be required, and sources of woody biomass will have to be explored. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

Very good point WDH. And you can't run a business based on these responses:

"I might cut some wood in September"

"I don't know when I'll start cutting"

"Maybe I'll cut some wood later"

.....from potential suppliers.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

The Bio-fuel plants could use several hundreds of loads of material a day, so it is a logistical challenge.  Chipping tops from current logging jobs will be important, but that will not be nearly enough to fuel these facilities.  Other creative sources, like cull hardwoods, will be required.  Too bad they cannot use greenbriar and grapvines :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

Add dogwood, choke cherry, mountain ash, willow, alders, cow shades and pin cherry to the list.  :D

I'm serious about those pin cherry especially, wouldn't get a faster growing tree and all within roadside reach. We get tree buts of 8-10 inches in 12 years here on road side berms and about 45 feet tall.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Wenrich

But, you could add woody debris to the list.  That would include stuff that currently goes to landfills.  Housing debris, industrial debris, tree trimmings, etc.  For example, when they do roadside trimmings in my area, they just blow it on the ground. 

Shrub wood could be used as long as the economics support it.  Heck, we even import wood pulp to make paper.  If the price is right, you could import chips from tropical plantations. 

The biggest problem is how power companies price energy coming from biomass plants.  They price it below coal.  The economics go out the window unless you have a secondary steam user. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Cedarman

In Oklahoma where we grind cedar air dried to about 12 per cent before it hits the grinder we get about 10 tons of fiber per acre.  Some acres produce 20 tons and in dense stands 50 tons per acre. Remember, we are hauling fiber at 12 per cent not biomass saturated with water. There are literally millions of acres of this stuff available in the plains states.  The only competition is with mulch and that market can be saturated quickly.  A 100 loads per day means 200 acres of clearing per day of just cedar.  If they took the junk hardwood then that would be 100 acres per day.  Forest service is paying 500 bucks per acre to do thinning in AZ with the companies taking the small wood (14" and smaller to sawmills, chipping and biomass)

There is a huge amount of material that is available away from the normal production areas.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Ron Wenrich

I think that too often when you start talking biomass, everyone immediately starts to think in terms of their relative area and their particular place in the industry.  There's a lot of potential in a number of areas.  But, sometimes you gotta think outside the box, or get a bigger box.   ;)
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

WDH

Another thing to think about is location.  You cannot afford to transport green wood residue very far.  Maybe there will be a technology to efficiently dry it at the point of production, otherwise, having an abundance of biomass in an area may not be enough.  Using woody debris currently going to landfills really makes sense.  Maybe the landfills could accumulate the material and a chipping contractor could serve a number of landfills in an efficient manner.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

Hard to get folks in some areas to separate cardboard boxes, let alone broken wooden pallets and tree limbs.  ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Gary_C

Quote from: WDH on August 29, 2008, 01:32:39 PM
Using woody debris currently going to landfills really makes sense.  Maybe the landfills could accumulate the material and a chipping contractor could serve a number of landfills in an efficient manner.

This is already being done some places here. The Minnesota Power Plant just south of Duluth has been accepting construction waste or any wood fiber that can be chipped. The largest source of material has been housing contractors that now have a place for the dropoffs and waste wood from housing construction rather than paying tipping fees at the landfills.

The major drawback has been that it all has to be chipped before you can deliver it to the power plant. However there is now a chipping operation near the power plant that will chip small loads so hopefully that will work out for the homeowners or remodelers.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

WDH

That could create some new jobs.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Woodhog

There is a lot of "Biomass" used around here by the local paper mill.

They want all they can get.

They only forgot to pay for it...

They pay 31 dollars per tonne and the supplier has to pay the trucker 10.00 per tonne to haul it to the plant.

That leaves $21.00 per tonne to cut, forward to the landing..

What a joke.

The funny part is I see truckloads going in there from some poor  souls who must have failed  Economics 101...

underdog

They do not utilize it here. I guess??
There used to be local places to sell paperwood. They would put it on trains. All gone.
The last local place that took way wood just closed.
Now we have to haul a minimum of 50Mi to sell non sawmill  type wood.

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