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Getting Ready To Take The Plunge

Started by glgdiggs, March 27, 2009, 01:40:20 PM

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glgdiggs

After using this forum as an incredible knowledge source, I have decided to manage and log my own land. I will be using small scale logging techniques with my tractors with a logging winch and a trailer loader. The consulting foresters I've dealt with have determined that the thinning process to achieve an uneven pine management scenerio for my woodlot should yield between 12 to 15 thousand tons of mixed sweet gum, maple, oak, and smaller and poorer quality pine. Thinning would leave a pine basal area of approximately 80 sq ' per acre. Obviouly the thinnings need to be milled and processed into something. Ergo a sawmill is in my future. I will be a one man operation. I have spent a couple of days off bearing a Woodmizer Super hydraulic and as such watched the band dulling and changing process. In my case kerf may not matter with the quanity of wood available, so I have been considering a Mobile Dimension mill. It seems to me that even on a band mill mostly dimension lumber is cut, so am I missing something in versatility that would overide the band maintenance issue. I have been reading for 3 years so I'm not new just under posted.

Tom


Funny, I think I remember when joined the forum.

The Mobile Dimension is a good mill and not limited to dimensional lumber.  It can cut boards too, just not as wide as the bandmills can do.  Cutting wide is a neat thing, and opens up opportunities for sales, but a woodworker can glue up a wide panel from 1x4's too.  Some even prefer to do so.

The blade maintenance might be less on a circle blade, but the initial expenses are less on the band.  If it's only the teeth damaged on a circle blade, the costs may parallel, but if the circle blade itself is damaged, the cost go up considerabley.

Sawing techniques differ on the two styles, but either is "learnable".  If you like Mobile Dimension, you might also look at Peterson, Lucas and Mighty Mite.   Some of the other circle mill styles are BrandX and Double Cut.

The circle mills may be able to saw more boards in a day, if you can feed it the trees, but bands are famous for their mizerness and getting the most board footage from the available timber. Of course, you'll find arguements on both sides, but that is the rule of thumb that is used by the salesmen.

Those with Mobile Dimensions mills really like them.

thecfarm

You are going to be busy.How many acres you got?There is a lot to cutting and selling wood.Pulp is easy,but the logs can be a differant story at times.Between cutting trees and sawing,won't leave much time for other things.Going to do some building too?What have you got for a tractor and winch?What are you calling a trailer loader?See what happens when you join,someone asks a bunch of questions.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

glgdiggs

60 acres more or less in timber. 2 Landtrac 530 dtc 4wd tractors and 1 360 dtc 4wd with loader and backhoe. The land is dead flat with roads already in place. I plan on purchasing a Farmi 501 winch and a Farmi Primero HK3967 log loader mounted on a Primero 9000 trailer. I plan on building 2 solar kilns and a saw shed. I have been rejuvenating a 1933 Craftsman Cape for the last 3 years and now that I'm nearly finnished this new under taking will give me something to do.

ErikC

  Mobile dimension makes a fine mill. It may not be perfect for a lot of smaller stuff, but will certainly do the job. And you won't waste much time on a small log it will chomp it up in a couple passes  :)  New blades are spendy, but the inserts aren't and a new blade is a rare need. Many are decades old and still good.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

DanG

Given your situation, your age, and the fact that you plan to work alone, I think that the MD is the ideal choice for you.  I have owned and operated one for seven years, mostly alone, but have messed about with bandmills and swingers on occasion too.  I'd love to have a bandmill and a swinger to go along with the MD, but since I can only have one mill, I'll stick with what I have.  I've not found another mill of any type that is better for a one-man operation. ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

StorminN

I'll second what DanG just said... I love my MD and love the fact that I can cut alone and still be productive... the mill pushes every cut piece back to me - no need for another offbearer, no need to count on someone else to show up in order to be productive. That being said, I wish I also had a thin-kerf resaw for when I'm milling anything under 4/4... even with a 1/4" kerf main blade on the MD, that's a lot of wood gone to sawdust... but I make do with what I've got, for now.

By the way, my MD is 38 years old and still has the original blades (though of course I've changed the teeth!)

-Norm.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

thecfarm

Sounds like you are going to be busy again.With 3 tractors,one should be running for you.Keep on posted on your progress.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

bandmiller2

Diggs, welcome sounds like you have all the ducks in a row.Good advice given really can't add anything except guys our age need to think and plan to conserve energy and our backs.Frank C.



This post is Bandmillers even 1000 !!
Tom
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ljmathias

I'll take the bandmill side of the discussion here since so far it's weighted more towards the circular saw.  I have to confess first that I've never used a swingmill or a MD but have cut a fair amount with a manual LT30 first and now a hydraulic LT40.  I'd never go back to a manual mill!  With hydraulics I can cut by myself all day and not do myself in, which at my age is pretty easy to accomplish.  Since I cut almost exclusively for my own use- building barns, sheds and houses for the family- I'm not under time constraints and productivity quotas so you have to put that in your equation as well.  Having said all that, the lumber and timbers I get off the Woodmizer are everything I could want or need.  Lately been sawing some fresh pine (sticky, gooey mess that is) and some "aged" pine and poplar from Katrina falls- the LT40 works great on both and I've got piles of boards now for finishing up the house I'm currently working on.  Going to use siding both inside and out plus lots of wood for floors and furniture on the inside.  Also designing some benches and chairs for the front porch that use some of the older sweet gum and oak I've got maturing in various stacks of wood.

While some say they would want another mill or two, for me I can't imagine how I would use them productively.  Keeping one mill busy and using the output is more than I can handle.  Maybe if and when I make it to full  retirement, things will change and I'll want or need the greater flexibility and productivity, but I don't see that happening any time soon. So for now, for me anyway, one bandmill that does what's supposed to works just fine.

By the way, you're about the same situation I have here: I have 52 acres that I can now access pretty well although the balance of soft and hardwoods is not what I'd really desire.  I'm gradually fixing that but you know the old catechism: "What's the best time to plant a tree?  40 years ago or so..." I use a Long backhoe/front end loader and it's all I need to move trees and cut lumber around, so you might have better use for your money than buying a loader just for logs unless you're going mobile to cut on other peoples land.

Good luck on your adventures- nothing beats the pure satisfaction of harvesting, processing and using stuff from your own land.

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

DanG

There is no doubt that the bandmills can be productive with a solo sawyer, but even with full hydraulics they are more labor intensive.  Once you get the cant squared up, you can turn out a lot of boards quickly, and if you have a dragback, you save a lot of walking and reaching.  But then you have that big pile of unedged boards of varying widths to deal with somehow.  If the log was large, most of those planks will be pretty DanG big and heavy for a 60 year old man to wrestle with.  You can use an edger, but that is like buying and maintaining a second sawmill, and somebody still has to operate it.

With the MD, all the boards come off ready to stack and sticker, one at a time.  All of them are already edged.  The slabs come off as little skinny edgings, except for the bottom one, which I usually handle with the tractor or forklift.

The bigger automated bandmills might put more board feet on the ground in a given time period, but not by much, and not without some kind of help.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

glgdiggs

As for the 3 tractors my wife just shakes her head and says that I hate to change implements. One of the 530's will have the winch with a front loader graple while the other will act as a forwarder with the trailer. The trailer is necessary because of some of the timber will be over a half mile from the log yard.

Larry

Quote from: glgdiggs on March 27, 2009, 01:40:20 PM
my woodlot should yield between 12 to 15 thousand tons of mixed sweet gum, maple, oak, and smaller and poorer quality pine.

Is that correct?

Might make a big difference on what kinda mill you need.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

glgdiggs

The 12 to 15,000 ton estimate was only for the thinning and stated as tons for pulp purposes. In removing the hardwoods and pine many are large and in the pines (Loblolly) are at the end of productive growth cycle (75 to 80 years).  The idea is to keep the best performing pines and sun lanes for regeneration by clearing the understory trees. Pulp wood here is sold for $1.00/ton stumpage. The remaining pine is all high grade saw timber in an uneven age management program, average dbh 20" to 24", 60 to 80 feet tall with 30% crown minimum. I do not plan on selling any as pulp wood.

glgdiggs

Sometimes plans change. I've found a 1997 Woodmizer LT40HDG35 super hydraulic with 3300 hrs, debarker, sharpening and setting equipment, DH 4000 kiln, 100+ bands. The Wisconsin engine runs well and the mill cuts straight and true. Any possible problems with this vintage mill?

Tom

Vintage!!
It's just getting broken in.

Woodmizer has added features most every year and the mills keep getting stronger, but my 1990 LT40HD is still making boards at a production level and I've a friend with a 1987 that cuts as true as you could ask of it.

Those mills are just parts.  As long as there are parts, and you don't destroy the mill, you can saw wood.  You can even do a lot of upgrading if you decide that you need to do it.

KiwiMikeP

Good choice for considering a circular. They have a pretty good track record down here. Try checking out the Mahoe twin blade saw or the automated swingblade by Peterson. Both are productive mills and can handle ALOT of logs with minimal maintenance and down time

zopi

I See you live in Matthews...do you by chance know any of the Beauchemins? Good friends of mine...

I'm just a couple rivers over from you..northwest of Smithville.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

woodmills1

I ran my 93 LT40HD by myself from 95 to just a few months ago putting out nearly half a million bd ft.

I now have a 2005 LT 70 and edger and have run it by myself producing on average 220-250 bd ft per hour

could I do more with a helper-----yes the mill has a much greater producton capacity than I can use alone, but the point is I can and do use it alone.

as far as the guys of "age" comments.....I think you are right on about the log loading/forwarding trailer.  mine is a 1999 metavic and it is the best helper/pair of hands around the mill.  anything too heavy for this older man is lifted by the metavic
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

glgdiggs

Zopi,  Sorry to say I have not made their aquaintance.

glgdiggs

Made the deal on the woodmizer today. Looks like I will be sawing soon.

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