iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

green Lap or bevel siding

Started by dnormand, June 26, 2009, 08:10:50 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dnormand

I have not been able to find an answer to this question. I'd appreciate any in site as to the pro's or con's.

If your nailing up fresh-cut bevel siding for a barn, would you sheath the building or nail directly to the studs?

Typically I use spiral nails or screws when nailing my green wood, would this suffice for the siding or is there a better alternative?


Thanks for any help, I love this forum.

D.P. Normand

nas

I would nail it directly to the studs.  If you put sheathing on you should strap it so there is an air gap behind the siding.

oh and welcome to the forum  :) :)

Nick
Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.
2002 WM LT40HDG25
stihl 066
Husky 365
1 wife
6 Kids

coastlogger

For anything other than a residence,I have always just nailed to studs eith excellent success. Building wrap first if you want to cut down on the draft.Have you cut your siding yet? My favorite is 5/8 thick x anywhere from 8 to 14".Very little cupping seems to take
place possibly due to good airfow behind siding when it is directly on studs. One heck of a lot easier than taper siding and nearly as much out of log.
clgr
clgr

dnormand

I have not started cutting the siding just yet. I actually had planned to just saw the boards without a taper at .5" thick. I did some test cuts and it seemed to stay as flat as the .625" thickness. What type of nails do you use for the attachment?

Thanks

coastlogger

.5 seems awful thin to me but then so did 5/8 till I tried it  Curious to know what species you use. Here Ive use cedar and spruce.I just use skinny galv nails around 2.25". The ones with domed heads are nice,you dont mark the siding with hammer.I lap 1" and drive nail in just above lap otherwise shrinkage causes issues occasionally.
clgr
clgr

ladylake

 Seems like if you just nailed to the studs you would need some kind of kitty corner bracing or sheeting on the inside.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

shinnlinger

If I was nailing right to the studs, I would use a large"let in" brace at each corner.

When you guys nail flat board, how do you start the course?  a water table?  Do you face nail?

Neat thread.  Thanks.

Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

coastlogger

I use an approx 5/8x5/8 strip,angled a bit on one face,stuffed up  maybe 1/8 so it is not visible Yes I face nail.Is there another way with lap siding??My experience has been the straight boards curl WAY less,if at all, than tapered siding.Another technique I use with good success is when I have to join boards on a long run I make a v in one end and a "point "on the other.(45 degree cuts)This can be done really fast with a skilsaw and makes the join very stable and sometimes nearly invisible.
clgr
clgr

Tripp

Corner braces are always a good idea.

I start my first course with a 2 inch wide strip of the siding that I am using. That way it tilts the first course out away from the studs like the rest of the pieces will be. Depending on the application it is usually a good measure to put a metal 90 degree drip cap of some sort along the bottom row.

Hope this makes sense.

Tripp

woodbowl

How do you plan to do your corners? Vertical trim using 2 siding boards looks nice, but then you have a critter hole on every lapped board. If you build the corners first using 2Xs the siding will butt up nice against it leaving a clean joint. Drawbacks are, each joint needs to be a tight fit and if there is not much overhang it may need to be caulked.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

woodmills1

the 45 degree end lap I believe is called a scarf joint.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

bandmiller2

DP,welcome,why cheap out and copy the thin commercial product??Usally wood is the cheapest thing we have, go full cut or 1" less kerf .Don't know where you live but you'll feel better when a storm is blowing in with the heavier lap.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

coastlogger

I think a scarf joint is different:45 degrees across the board? The connection I described earlier involves cutting 90 deg across board,with saw set to a shallow cut, then flipping board over and doing same: creates a v notch. Do similar on other board to form a point.Resulting joint locks boards together,even if there is cupping.
clgr

dnormand

Here in south Mississippi southern yellow pine is king. I have some nice logs a friend gave to me and that's what i'll be using.
For corner boards, I'm going to use 2x material and butt the siding. Thanks for all of the replies. i've been given a lot to think about.

Take Care,

D.P.Normand

MotorSeven

Quote from: coastlogger on June 28, 2009, 11:12:34 AM
I think a scarf joint is different:45 degrees across the board? The connection I described earlier involves cutting 90 deg across board,with saw set to a shallow cut, then flipping board over and doing same: creates a v notch. Do similar on other board to form a point.Resulting joint locks boards together,even if there is cupping.

I've never seen this type of joint, but other than some extra work, it sounds like a good way to go. However if the lumber is green, it could still dry and create a gap.

RD
WoodMizer LT15 27' bed

ljmathias

Hey, dnormand, hadn't known you were from the Deep South also?  I live just outside Purvis, near Hattiesburg, and I'm actually about to start the same sort of project discussed here- lab siding on a small house I'm building.  I'll use "live edge" on the exposed part, plan on going with 1" thick minus the kerf and planed losses so I get a smooth outer surface (Arkensawyers suggestion, as I remember it).  Also will coat both sides with sealer and carpenter bee repellent to try and preserve the look and the wood.  I'll be using SYP also, although most of what I have is "denim" pine with nice dark colors running through it- hard to get but worth the price  :D :D

I've decided to screw all my boards on- thought of all those nails moving around as the wood dries and moves isn't giving me peaceful sleep at night so I'm going to overkill- got more time then sense anyway, so why not?  On the trim and corners I'm experimenting with 2X and 3X yellow poplar stained dark and then coated- contrast at the corners and around doors and windows.  I plan on caulking all the trim-siding butt joints as well but still puzzled about a drip edge on the bottom row- seems like no matter how I can think to attach it, there'll be a small crack to hold moisture (and rot).  Can anyone enlighten me?

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

rbarshaw



I believe this is what he is talking about, looking at the boards along the top edge you would see this, they would fit togeather, and stay. I think it is a good idea. Let me know if i'm wrong.
Been doing so much with so little for so long I can now do anything with nothing, except help from y'all!
By the way rbarshaw is short for Robert Barshaw.
My Second Mill Is Shopbuilt 64HP,37" wheels, still a work in progress.

coastlogger

Your diagram is correct rbarshaw.Some other concerns abt this joint were shrinkage and time. Re shrinkage the joint does stay tight,at least on cedar and spruce. I believe it goes like this:longditudinal shrinkage on wood in general is very minimal. Shrinkage tangentially and radially is much more, but this does not affect the joint  both v and point shrink about the same amount,keeping the tight fit.Re time if you have an extra skilsaw around to keep set at a shallow 45 deg it goes pretty fast.There often isnt that many boards on a wall trhat need doing anyway, given that doors and windows make for lots of short runs. This has been my take on it anyhow.
clgr
clgr

shinnlinger

OK,

I am building a house as we speak and have yet to decide my siding option.  I can see vertical strapping on the sheathing for ventilation and running siding as this thread suggests.  My question is what would be a good New England species to use?  I have mostly white pine around here and have pretty good overhang on my house (it was going to be a strawbale).

Would I be an idiot to hang white pine right off the mill and paint it next summer when it dries out? Wife is a fan of live edge, but I don't know about using sapwood on my house.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

moonhill

Watch out for the sap wood.  Look at your board piles, the boards with sap on them stay wet far longer than the heart wood.  Sap wood will for sure rot, Pine heart will last without rotting, it will weather away like it should.  I would skip the paint, but that is my lazy side.  I hear that if you are going to paint do both sides, other wise it will take on moisture form the inside, this will lead to the moisture wanting to exit on the exterior and blister the paint.  Stain on the other hand may act differently?

I use small finish screws for attaching clapboards, when you need to adjust or put in that changed window or door it all zips apart and you can still re use the material. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

ARKANSAWYER


  I make bevel siding like this.







It fits flush with the wall or studs.







Most of the time we just take 1x4's  and put them over on the corners.
ARKANSAWYER

dnormand

hey, Lj

Nice to see someone so close. I'm off Hillsdale in Lumberton. I took a look at your Pictures, nice job on the framing. I'm a bit more of a hack with a LT15, but your mill is really nice! When i bought mine in Perkinston Ms, I was in awe of the larger mills.
D.P.N

shinnlinger

OK Arkansas,

I know how I would cut a bevel by alternating a 1x under each side with each pass, but how do you get that rabbet?  Tablesaw????

Thats alot of steps, but it is nice.  I am leaning toward kiln dry pine flat sawn in the 3/4 inch range and might just leave it a'natural as Moonhill suggests.

Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

ARKANSAWYER


  I started out with a shaper cutting the babbit on the back edge.  I have a lapsiding attachment for the WM LT40.  So I would make the bevel siding then run the edge over the shaper and make the babbit.  Now I saw 1 1/8 thick boards and run them through the Logosol PH 260 and cut both babbits at the same time.  THen I run the boards through my ARKY resaw and split them.  We split about 50 to 90 boards an hour.  We do about 20,000 sq ft a year in pine siding for homes and another 6,000 to 7,000 in cedar.
ARKANSAWYER

Thank You Sponsors!