inherited land

[Mandothis]

Welcome to the forum.  I'll throw my two cents in, and you can take it for what it's worth.  I have a degree in forestry and have been working in the field full time for 8 years and make recommendations on around 100 tracts a year and I still will have a forester or another technician come take a look at a tract occasionally to give their thoughts on it. A lot can be learned by reading and doing research,  but on a long term crop like timber professional advice may help you in the long run...... I know you didn't want to hire one, but having someone in the field look over your place with you would be very valuable.  Good luck

Yeah, I understand what you are saying.  I have read it plenty in just about everyones posts one person always says hire a forester. 

I am a cheap cheap man.  If i can get what i need free I will lol.  I am also very patient and don't rush into anything and learn things easy. 

I am starting first by making a driveway into the heart of the property.  From there will cut a few trails collecting all the sellable blowdown, burn the rotted ones.  Then look for all the dmged and diseased ones first.  Mark all the healthy ones and probably get rid of some of the competition in the close vicinity.  Figure it will take 1-2 years just to get into the heart of the property and clear a opening 1 acre big.  It should be easy to at least pay for the 400 taxes and perhaps a log splitter, will have to start out with axe for now as the electric splitter i have is just too darn slow. 

I guess by some of the advice here a tractor will be my best friend in all this.  Will a kubota do? 

[mad murdock]

Unless you got a steal of a deal on a Kubota, I would seriously look for something with more substance. Around here you can find an old dozer or even a skidder for 5,000 or so.  Might need a little TLC, but it is a start and much more useful than a tractor.

[thenorthman]

Anything with a bucket or blade and tall tires or tracks is better then a pick up truck or atv...

The larger kubota's would be a good starting point, the little hobby farmer ones will be almost as bad as an atv.

If you can swing it a 3 point winch would be a good help as well. Though not necessary.

Like murdock mentions an old skidder or Dozer would be money well spent. And they are cheap out here... 3500 for a running D4 cat, or 5500 for a 404 timber jack, 8k for a grapple skidder... the list goes on...

[curdog]

I completely understand the cheap part, my girlfriend accuses me of that as well. I don't know about Canada,  but here the state forestry agencies will write a plan for landowners free of charge in many cases. That's what I do. I tell people that it will give them a good jumping off point.  At least it will provide unbiased recommendations and you can go from there. But if that's not your thing I get that to, I'm pretty reluctant on things I can do myself as well and sometimes it's worked out in my favor, sometimes not.
A dozer would be very useful,  but a tractor with a front end loader is very versatile. I guess it just depends on the route you go. Having a logger put in the roads while thinning , and you maintaining it I'd go with a tractor.  If you are constructing roads, dozer

[Mandothis]

Anything with a bucket or blade and tall tires or tracks is better then a pick up truck or atv...

The larger kubota's would be a good starting point, the little hobby farmer ones will be almost as bad as an atv.

If you can swing it a 3 point winch would be a good help as well. Though not necessary.

Like murdock mentions an old skidder or Dozer would be money well spent. And they are cheap out here... 3500 for a running D4 cat, or 5500 for a 404 timber jack, 8k for a grapple skidder... the list goes on...

thankyou very much, I just always had a fear of going this route because i heard stories of what it costs to fix some of this heavy machinery (not mechanically inclined with dozers at all) Would hate to pay 5-8k on a heavy machinery and then it break down and find out it costs another 5-10k to fix lol. 

[luvmexfood]

Well...

Fire wood is a racket, in my opinion, more work than its worth.  Granted I bought my skidder on firewood.   But I haven't sold much since.

Having said that, if your going to do it finding some kind of inexpensive processor is about the only way to go, mix that with a medium sized tractor for skidding logs and at least then you've taken the back ache out of firewooding. Other wise your going to get about 20 full cords into it (80 face cords) and wish you where dead and start making excuses for something else to be doing with your every minute of spare time.From the sounds of it a proper log thinning my do you more good then harm. Mark it yerself if you must but make some calls to local mills see what they are buying and go from there.  Other wise you have  a long road to hoe.  Probably take the better part of 5 years just cutting in some roads to get anykind of access without some kind of equipment (hence the tractor). Not to mention all the timber that will be quietly going to waste while you work on the road.

Hiring a logger to make a light thinning, they would pretty much put the roads in for you, and clear a spot for a house/whatever all while just doing their normal work. Just be careful on who you hire and keep an eye on em.

And if you still have an urge to cut firewood there will be plenty of slash and tops after the loggers leave to keep you in fire wood for at least a couple of years.

Lastly if people have the same mind set there as they do here... Taint no one going to pay to come cut fire wood on your property, they can get it free somewhere else. The money from firewood is in the labor, lots of labor... Most times the wood is cull wood or undesirable for logs, so it gets turned into firewood... as a way of turning lemons into lemon aid.

Best of luck to ya.

Northman has pretty much hit most of what I would say. After awhile of cutting, splitting and stacking firewood it becomes a job. Not fun, just a hard job.

I won't let anyone I don't know and know well set foot on this place to cut wood, hunt or anything else. They may see a shop door open and eye what's inside and come back when your not there. And the ones I have offered to come cut up slash, with me offering to take the tractor and pull it out for them and pile the brush with tractor, have not been interested.

[mad murdock]

Another tip, if you really want to live up to the cheap man moniker, start looking around for freebie or near free chainsaw(s). Most of them you can fix up fer cheap, and a saw is a great piece of equipment to cut yer teeth on learning how to fix yourself. The learned skill will save you big$$ as the time goes by.

[Mandothis]

Northman has pretty much hit most of what I would say. After awhile of cutting, splitting and stacking firewood it becomes a job. Not fun, just a hard job.

I won't let anyone I don't know and know well set foot on this place to cut wood, hunt or anything else. They may see a shop door open and eye what's inside and come back when your not there. And the ones I have offered to come cut up slash, with me offering to take the tractor and pull it out for them and pile the brush with tractor, have not been interested.

Good to know!

[Clark]

If you want to do something with firewood then you should have an idea of how much wood you have standing on your property, how much you plan to cut every year and how much can you expect to grow after you have thinned it. Basically you need a cruise or inventory of your timber. Since you don't want or need the help of a forester (yes, I am one) I'll offer one piece of advice that you are free to ignore...it would be more time effective to enroll in a 2-year forestry program and learn to cruise timber properly than trying to figure it out yourself.

Clark

[thenorthman]

Anything with a bucket or blade and tall tires or tracks is better then a pick up truck or atv...

The larger kubota's would be a good starting point, the little hobby farmer ones will be almost as bad as an atv.

If you can swing it a 3 point winch would be a good help as well. Though not necessary.

Like murdock mentions an old skidder or Dozer would be money well spent. And they are cheap out here... 3500 for a running D4 cat, or 5500 for a 404 timber jack, 8k for a grapple skidder... the list goes on...

thankyou very much, I just always had a fear of going this route because i heard stories of what it costs to fix some of this heavy machinery (not mechanically inclined with dozers at all) Would hate to pay 5-8k on a heavy machinery and then it break down and find out it costs another 5-10k to fix lol.

Machines can be fickle, but most of what it cost to have them repaired is in paying someone to do it, get an oldder diesel machine that isn't completely wore out and you should be fairly happy, lots of the middle sized machines where meant for the farm/ranch or the guy just starting his business, they didn't get much use, the farmer/ranchers used them infrequently, the small business dude moved up first chance he got...

Anyway, find a runner look it over for obvious cracks and cover ups, treat it like a jealous gurl freind, change the oil on a schedule, and have no fear.

Stick to known brands, there are a lot of "grey market" machines out there for low prices, many of them can be hard to find parts for.  Deere, Cat, Case, Ford/New Holland, Kubota, Allis chalmers, Intertrashinal... all good stuff.

Is it weird that I don't like the Deere brand... all the dudes wearing they're green and yellow like a badge of honor... even though I kinda like the old Deere tractors... a certain motor cycle brand has the same thing going for it... except black and orange... any way I digress...

[pine]

Don't know what province you are in and the setup in your locale but in many areas down south (US) the local governments, non federal, state and county have foresters on staff who are funded to give the private landowner assistance.  As was pointed out previously, they can help you write a FMP and do an analysis/walk-through of your property helping you identify the FSI prescriptions that are need on your stand or stands if you have more than one stand on your 80 acres. 

If they are on staff you are already paying for them through your taxes, availing yourself of their assistance only makes sense.  I do not know what your provincial government offers but I would certainly look in to it and use it if available.

In addition, many of the state universities in the US have extension programs that can help you learn more about how the silvacultural aspects of your property can be modified to not only do what you want for your personal use but to improve the overall health of the forest.

Just my $0.02

[Mandothis]

Don't know what province you are in and the setup in your locale but in many areas down south (US) the local governments, non federal, state and county have foresters on staff who are funded to give the private landowner assistance.  As was pointed out previously, they can help you write a FMP and do an analysis/walk-through of your property helping you identify the FSI prescriptions that are need on your stand or stands if you have more than one stand on your 80 acres. 

If they are on staff you are already paying for them through your taxes, availing yourself of their assistance only makes sense.  I do not know what your provincial government offers but I would certainly look in to it and use it if available.

In addition, many of the state universities in the US have extension programs that can help you learn more about how the silvacultural aspects of your property can be modified to not only do what you want for your personal use but to improve the overall health of the forest.

Just my $0.02

Ah thankyou.  I am all for something if its free or already paid for through taxes.  Guess it doesn't hurt to check into that. 

[Southside]

I can understand the desire to go about this yourself and the belief that it will work the way you plan.  But logging, even "just firewood" is nothing like tree service work, I am not putting down those guys but emphasizing the difference.  Even with all the PPE you will get hurt hand felling in the woods, to quote a friend here on the forum who is the best feller I know, "It is not a matter of if we get hurt, it is a matter of when".  If you try to do this with the wrong piece of equipment - things will take a lot longer and be a lot more expensive at the end of the day.  I have logged with horses, a farm tractor, cable and grapple skidders.  I would prefer to have a horse over the wrong farm tractor in the woods any day, but I prefer a grapple skidder - WITH a winch - over all others.  The first time you are working alone and get just stuck enough that you can't get out, you will understand why I say that. 

I tried the firewood route without a processor, now if I don't need it for my own heat it goes for pulp, the time and effort put into it did not make it worth doing. 

The idea of hiring the right logger to come in and do exactly what you want is one to seriously consider.  Since you own the land without any debit against it you could have some creative options on what you wanted done there using the stumpage as leverage to barter work, this is where a forester could be invaluable to you in making a plan that will work knowing what tools are available to get the job done right.  Imagine being able to focus on your house and crops this summer rather than possibly, maybe, if things work out the way you hope they will,  in 2020.  How much further could you be ahead of the curve? 

[Mandothis]

If you want to do something with firewood then you should have an idea of how much wood you have standing on your property, how much you plan to cut every year and how much can you expect to grow after you have thinned it. Basically you need a cruise or inventory of your timber. Since you don't want or need the help of a forester (yes, I am one) I'll offer one piece of advice that you are free to ignore...it would be more time effective to enroll in a 2-year forestry program and learn to cruise timber properly than trying to figure it out yourself.

Clark

I pretty much have through watching tons of youtube videos on cruising timber.  Again Youtube was free for me and probably got the same information a paid course would give.  Thanks all the same

[Mandothis]

I can understand the desire to go about this yourself and the belief that it will work the way you plan.  But logging, even "just firewood" is nothing like tree service work, I am not putting down those guys but emphasizing the difference.  Even with all the PPE you will get hurt hand felling in the woods, to quote a friend here on the forum who is the best feller I know, "It is not a matter of if we get hurt, it is a matter of when".  If you try to do this with the wrong piece of equipment - things will take a lot longer and be a lot more expensive at the end of the day.  I have logged with horses, a farm tractor, cable and grapple skidders.  I would prefer to have a horse over the wrong farm tractor in the woods any day, but I prefer a grapple skidder - WITH a winch - over all others.  The first time you are working alone and get just stuck enough that you can't get out, you will understand why I say that. 

I tried the firewood route without a processor, now if I don't need it for my own heat it goes for pulp, the time and effort put into it did not make it worth doing. 

The idea of hiring the right logger to come in and do exactly what you want is one to seriously consider.  Since you own the land without any debit against it you could have some creative options on what you wanted done there using the stumpage as leverage to barter work, this is where a forester could be invaluable to you in making a plan that will work knowing what tools are available to get the job done right.  Imagine being able to focus on your house and crops this summer rather than possibly, maybe, if things work out the way you hope they will,  in 2020.  How much further could you be ahead of the curve?

Very good point!.  I have thought about this as well but again was scared off by some of the stories I have heard here for some of the quotes they recieved for clearing their lots.  The prices were really really low and it just seems with simple math that harvesting it for firewood would be worth more than the logger taking it all. 

I do like the idea of saving alot of time but that is also the journey of doing a homestead from start to finish.  Its something i can look back on when I am 60-80 and see all that was accomplished doing it old school way with a little modern advancement lol.  Great idea tho thanks.

[so il logger]

    I had been just reading and not commenting but come on [ high opinion of yourself much]?? These guys are trying to help you... Im not sure why? But regardless alot of these guys are PRO FORESTERS they didnt get there from you tube. Granted im just into the logging side but trust me these guys are pointing you in the right direction. Hire a forester and have him oversee the selective harvest by a real logger. You can cut the firewood outta the tops and maybe [high opinion of yourself] you wont get hurt

[Gary_C]

"Free advice is worth what you paid for it."

"You will not learn anything if you just listen to yourself."

To offer anything more would waste my time and yours. 

[Mandothis]

    I had been just reading and not commenting but come on [ high opinion of yourself much]?? These guys are trying to help you... Im not sure why? But regardless alot of these guys are PRO FORESTERS they didnt get there from you tube. Granted im just into the logging side but trust me these guys are pointing you in the right direction. Hire a forester and have him oversee the selective harvest by a real logger. You can cut the firewood outta the tops and maybe [high opinion of yourself] you wont get hurt

Umm what?  Not sure what your talking about.  Not sure u have really followed the conversation bro since I have not done anything to give a high opinion of my self.  In fact i have already credited alot of the peoples advice.  Perhaps u should read every reply before commenting. 

Second of all I have cut down well over a thousand trees in my life so don't worry about me getting hurt, as i have already stated i am patient and take my time in what ever i do.  I don't need a forester because I have already researched all i need to on it.  I am not interested in the logging business i am interested in the Homesteading.  Completely two different things and a main reason i have no interesest in a forestry guy.  I have already done the homework on what is of value. My concerns raised don't require a forester thanks anyways

[so il logger]

sorry to be so harsh about it. I understand you want to save money. Dont jump into something both feet just hearing what you want to hear. Trust the guys that have the education and the experience in forestry. Both loggers via they're experience and the money they have invested in equipment and the foresters from they're experience and education. Don't tell me your gonna watch you tube to learn how to cut timber as well? If so your headed toward a real bad experience in my opinion. Been many GOOD cutters lost from just little freak accidents. Lost a friend myself last summer from a freak thing. Some things are best left to the guys who are experts in the field. thats my 0.02 cents

[Puffergas]

You'll do fine. Sell some firewood. Don't go out and buy expensive machines. Maybe build some kind of wood buggie. Look into gov forester. Maybe make some charcoal (biochar) for the soil. And enjoy.....

[Mandothis]

"Free advice is worth what you paid for it."

"You will not learn anything if you just listen to yourself."

To offer anything more would waste my time and yours.

This is only true if all paid advice was 100% perfect.  Since man is not perfect the information could not be.  I have heard so much great advice over my life that was free.  Also alot of bad advice that was also free.  Again just a matter of discerning what is useful and what is not.  I am sure everyone can admit they paid for advice and it turned out to be bad. 

[so il logger]

I'm outta this you got my 2cents Just seems strange to be looking for advice when you already know what your going to do? Good luck

[Mandothis]

sorry to be so harsh about it. I understand you want to save money. Dont jump into something both feet just hearing what you want to hear. Trust the guys that have the education and the experience in forestry. Both loggers via they're experience and the money they have invested in equipment and the foresters from they're experience and education. Don't tell me your gonna watch you tube to learn how to cut timber as well? If so your headed toward a real bad experience in my opinion. Been many GOOD cutters lost from just little freak accidents. Lost a friend myself last summer from a freak thing. Some things are best left to the guys who are experts in the field. thats my 0.02 cents

Hey, you one of those people who can't read or comprehend well?  How on earth you get the impression i am jumping into something both feet and just hearing what i want to hear?  What on earth is giving you this impression?  If you had actually read anything I said and others have said you would realize I have been appreciative of their advice; you would be able to tell I am studying on multiple topics for quite some time now and also expressed decades of experience cutting down trees.  You speak as though I only mentioned Youtube as my only source when i actually listed several (including real hands on experience).  You obviously do not pay attention to detail in the things you read, i actually think it is people like you who should not be in the forest cutting trees.  You missed so much of what the context of this thread contains and u just ended up attacking me for no good reason.  Why? cause I don't want to hire a forester and after reading countless of other threads and thats all I see as replies it was one of my main points in the OP.  Why should i be attacked for one personal desire or belief?  If you don't want to help because of that reason then fine don't help but don't sit here and attack me or my character and skill level because I choose not to pay for advice.  That is childish and weak!

All the questions or main points of concern in the OP had nothing to do with requiring a forester.  The 80 acres and the kind of machines I will ever own is too big for me to really make an impact.  There is no desire for a big logging company to sell wood to.  Perhaps a small firewood business selling off the crap wood to pay for some of the stuff.  The concerns were to get advice from firewood sellers how they would feel if someone came in and just undercut them.  Again what do i need a forester for to tell me advice on this ?  There is none!

Another concern was in which order I should get the machines that i was still needing to get (no heavy machinery desired).  The advice here again does not require a forester to answer or talk about does it?  Or what type of machine (tractor vs skidsteer vs dozer).  Again none of my concerns touched really on selling all my wood to a mill or figuring out where the value is.  The value to me comes in many forms not just the trees.  And again i have done my research on all those areas thankyou very much.  Now back on topic.   

Thanks to those who did give me advice to the concerns i made.  You know who you are!  Thanks again

Again if there are foresters here on the forum and they read then in all honesty i am still getting foresters advice with out paying for it. 

[Mandothis]

You'll do fine. Sell some firewood. Don't go out and buy expensive machines. Maybe build some kind of wood buggie. Look into gov forester. Maybe make some charcoal (biochar) for the soil. And enjoy.....

Thankyou,  enjoying being the key!

[so il logger]

I was not attacking you in any way. And I kept track of your post and was reading it. Far as machinery go with a kubota with a fr end loader. When given advice keep your high opinion to yourself. Dont say nah thanks anyway. And how do you figure i can't read or comprehend well? Oh by the way a thousand trees is a drop in the bucket to almost every faller I know. Like i said before good luck on your homestead. post some pics