iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

4* blades

Started by ladylake, December 23, 2012, 04:05:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ladylake



  It's hard to get 4° blades from some companys, my local saw shop sells Simonds, Lennox and WM but only in 10°.  I do run 4° for everything after the first sharpening.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Chuck White

Steve; Wouldn't you need to slow your feed down in the softwoods with the 4°, when compared to the 10° blades.

The 4° would take sawdust out at slower rate (because of the slower feed) wouldn't it?

I'm only guessing because I don't know for sure!  :-\
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

mikeb1079

my non expert take on blade hook is that the higher the hook the more aggresively the band wants to cut.   with less hook angle your taking a slightly smaller bite and you're sacrificing a wee bit of speed and it takes a tad more power to run.  the trade off is that the lower hook angle wears a bit better in difficult cutting conditions, thus they make up for the slightly slower cutting.  in softwoods however it seems that you're better off using a higher hook angle which means a faster feed, less build up, and generally better cutting performance.
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

ladylake


10° will cut a little bit faster in clear softwood, the 4° more than make up it in knotty pine.  Seems like most feed a lot slower soon as it gets wavy and 4° cuts staighter at a high feed rate.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Chuck White

Looks like I need to get some 4° blades, or convert 3 or 4 10° to 4° then, they should come in handy in May when I dive into a bunch of Spruce logs!

With the 10's I end up slowing my feed down quite a bit in Spruce.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

hamish

Spruce is bad to cut with anything except a chainsaw!
Norwood ML26, Jonsered 2152, Husqvarna 353, 346,555,372,576

John Bartley

Quote from: hamish on December 24, 2012, 03:50:36 PM
Spruce is bad to cut with anything except a chainsaw!

Ummmm  not in my experience. The only trouble I've had with Spruce is when I don't have enough set. I'm running a 10° angle in not-frozen wood and about 0.028" set, and I can cut as straight as laser line. This applies equally to frozen and not frozen and is the same experience I've had with White Pine.  I have tried setting the sharpening angle back to 7° for frozen wood with good success, but while the tooth stays sharp longer, I still seem to need close to 30 thous of set in the knotty, pitchy stuff to avoid doing the wave.

John
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
Champion 25hp band mill, 20' bed
Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

barbender

I just sawed some white spruce yesterday with a WM 7°, it sawed nice and straight, and it did have a few knots in it. I've had good experience with the 7's on pine, oak, spruce, and black ash. I had some green ash give me some trouble, it is a low moisture wood and it may have been the spot for 4° bands. The only 4° band I tried was.on some red pine, and I wasn't that impressed with it in that application.
Too many irons in the fire

MartyParsons

Hello,
There are lots of variable to blades. Hook angle, Set, back angle and the list goes on.
I have found that every mill is not the same. Owners cutting speed, blade tension, hp, wood, dirt, bark and the list goes on an on.

WM blades ( others may be different)

the 4 degree has a high tooth .250",  32 degree back angle
the 7 degree has a high tooth .295" and a 34 degree back angle
the 9 degree has a low tooth .220" and a 29 degree back angle

If you have a 15 hp mill and you are sawing some tough or frozen wood. This owner may have only sawed 15 logs since new. I may help you chose a different blade than a owner sawing the same wood with a 55+ hp mill and with expert sawing experience.

We have many customes who use the 4 degree blade even on the LT10 and they work great.

Hope this helps.
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

ladylake

Quote from: John Bartley on December 24, 2012, 04:16:36 PM
Quote from: hamish on December 24, 2012, 03:50:36 PM
Spruce is bad to cut with anything except a chainsaw!

Ummmm  not in my experience. The only trouble I've had with Spruce is when I don't have enough set. I'm running a 10° angle in not-frozen wood and about 0.028" set, and I can cut as straight as laser line. This applies equally to frozen and not frozen and is the same experience I've had with White Pine.  I have tried setting the sharpening angle back to 7° for frozen wood with good success, but while the tooth stays sharp longer, I still seem to need close to 30 thous of set in the knotty, pitchy stuff to avoid doing the wave.

John


  John  How wide are you cutting spruce straight?   Making a 20" wide cut with a brand new 10° it looked like the ocean, then put on a 4° with a lot of set and it cut good.  As he didn't need 20" + we cut those big ones in half, when down to 12" or so cut nice at a good feed rate.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

customsawyer

Steve one of the reasons that your resharpened 4° blades are cutting better is that the cutting edge is square to the cut. When you have a new blade the cutting edge tends to be a little out of square due to the heavy set after it is sharpened. Setting after resharpening is not as bad cause you are only adding a few thousandths of set. IMHO.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

ladylake

 
That makes sence, I set then sharpen.  I believe the 7° blade at the start of this thread was factory sharpened.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

John Bartley

Quote from: ladylake on December 25, 2012, 05:42:20 AM


  John  How wide are you cutting spruce straight?   Making a 20" wide cut with a brand new 10° it looked like the ocean, then put on a 4° with a lot of set and it cut good.  As he didn't need 20" + we cut those big ones in half, when down to 12" or so cut nice at a good feed rate.  Steve


A couple of the Spruce I was cutting needed trimming with the chainsaw to get the millhead over the butt flare. My mill will clear 29", and I was just clearing many of them. I won;t say with any authority, but it's my opinion (from experience) that tooth angle, much like tooth angle on a chainsaw will decide how long a tooth stays cutting efficiently in different hardnesses of wood, whereas the set will decide how flat (lack of wave) the cut will be. I've had fresh sharpened, but thinly set bands produce a bad wave in the same wood where a dull band with wide set cuts dead flat, but really slow. I've never sharpened as tall as 4°. That's almost a vertical tooth face, but I'll bet that it would last a lot longer in frozen wood than my 10° bands, or even the 7° that I tried and had good success with.

John
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
Champion 25hp band mill, 20' bed
Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

ladylake

 
This time I increased the set as these blades didn't have much and went to 4° at the same time with way better results, but other times I just went from 10° to 4° with way better results. This morning I sharpened anouther 7° blade down to 4° without increasing the set and it didn't do good.  I'm out to resharpen and increase the set now, will report back later.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Jemclimber

Quote from: MartyParsons on December 24, 2012, 11:16:46 PM

WM blades ( others may be different)

the 4 degree has a high tooth .250",  32 degree back angle
the 7 degree has a high tooth .295" and a 34 degree back angle
the 9 degree has a low tooth .220" and a 29 degree back angle

Quote from: MartyParsons on December 24, 2012, 11:16:46 PM


Hi Marty,
When you say high tooth and low tooth, is that referring to the depth of the gullet or something else?
lt15

steve marek

when you sharpen your blades at 4 degree how set are putting on the blades
WM LT40HD logrite ach 718 woodmaster timber framing tools 3000 ford tractor 359 395 husky chainsaw woodmizer e50 single blade edger woodmizer 260 moulder 2538 mahindra tractor kd 250 kiln

ND rancher

OK guys now I've got more questions as I follow this. #1 a good 4° blade to get? #2 I have a dino sharpener that I,m trying to figure out and it only goes to 8°. Would I take hear out of square? #3 Where can I get a reasonable priced setter? #4 When setting how do you determine what set to start with on this hard oak I have? 20° or more? The idea of setting before sharpening makes sense to me.I'm sure there are more questions to come.Hoping for some sun and 20° by weekend so I can try those 7° lenox blades that came today. Thanks Keith
TimberKing B-20.  Have been bitten by the bug! Loving life !

woodhick

I have been running Woodmizer 4* bands for several years.  They are all I run on Oaks or anything harder.  I also use them on knotty pine.  Poplar I will use a 9*.    The 4's will cause you to slow down on the feed rate but I have always gotten a better cut.  Thats on a LT40 with 25hp.  Mill hp can make a difference as Marty states.  What works for one may not work for another.
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

bandmiller2

Keith, I've never had a good look at a Dino sharpener.Whats stopping the head from going less than 8 degrees.?? Prehaps you could modify the stop,if not mayby move the rollers that the band rides on,four degrees is not much if you look at it.Personally I don't think a couple of degrees ether way make much differance its set and how sharp the tooth is that matters.I start out with 10 degree bands and sharpen to somewhat less.As far as setters go theirs no free lunch depends on how much you cut,if your busy by all means get a two sided setter if your a hobby cutter you could get by with a one toother,setting is the worst part of sharpening. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ND rancher

Frank C.There are a series of settings that start on top of the frame.Top being 8° bottom 22°,no enough room to get another hole at top.That is why I thought about moving the head out of square. I think the set is the big factor also so given my time schedule a two sided is best.  I guess I would call myself top of the list hobby cutter.Between ranch duties and grand kids,and the weather I don't know when I can cut. I want to go non stop cause don't when the next chance will be.  Keith
TimberKing B-20.  Have been bitten by the bug! Loving life !

taylorsmissbeehaven

I put my first 7 degree blade on yesterday and I must say I was impressed. I cut a pine an oak and a poplar with good results. Good speed and nice staight cuts. Cant wait to try a 4 degree! Brian
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

barbender

My Cook's sharpener came with threaded index holes, it onlt goes down to 8°. I slid it past tightened it down to sharpen 7°.
Too many irons in the fire

Thank You Sponsors!