Logging equipment

[mike_belben]

im hauling with my 1 ton and will need a bigger trailer cause i can only haul 5 tons but saw timber where im selling goes for $48 a ton and $22 a ton for pulp

These 4 stems...  $30



That single stem... $210




$109 load of white oak pulp, probably 40 to 50 stems



$1500 load of white oak stave.  14 logs



Note that there are 4x more stems to handle and 1/4 of the money in low grade.  Also those are prices paid at mill with no split.  Imagine sharing half your pulp money with land owner. 

I have a 2ton truck and 30 feet of flat deck thatll move 10ton of wood without breaking (not legally but itll do it)

My 1975 era logging operation can barely make $80 a day hand cutting pulp alone.  After fuel, oil leaks, saw chain and lunch, its an exhausting way to break even.  God forbid a machine breaks, which they always do.

I could make $80 a day with a lot less labor and iron just working at lowes.  And actually have health insurance without really needing it





The lower the grade and diameter of timber, the more critical production speed - and in a lot of ways, luck -becomes.  I really am trying to be helpful to you, not just discouraging.

[Skeans1]

Man that kind of money I wouldn't start a saw for honestly our low price for 36' right now is 800 per thousand and almost a grand for decent export. Highest value timber I've cut was 1500 a thousand for poles. How do you guys make it over there?

[starmac]

When we had a pulp market it was 50, I was hauling 30 tons, when the price dropped to 40, the loggers quit loading it and just left it in the woods. Now we have no market at all, so it stays in the woods except for what little gets hauled out for firewood.

[Firewoodjoe]

Even dirthawgers prices are horrible. Loggers here squeal if the pulp hits $40 a ton.

[Firewoodjoe]

Cuts the mills Stumpage and they'll pay about $28 a ton to produce and truck it.

[dirthawger]

Guess i shouldve explained a tad better.  Im not looking to log like y'all do, like y'all have said what im going to do is more like tree service but i was looking for ways to be more effecient because ill still be skidding and loading logs but i think a log loader is what i need maybe even one with a slasher. Id have to quit my job and go all in to make money doing what y'all do, maybe one day but im not prepared for that yet.

[Skeans1]

Can I ask real quick are you mechanical? Are you planning on hauling tree length? A log loader either a knuckle boom or a full blown shovel like we run up here is only good if you can get it to the job. There's a thought a forwarder it takes the place of two machines yarding is do able as well as loading trucks.

[Bogue Chitto]

 

  

  

  John Deere tractor with logging tongs and loader.  Works well for my second job.   

[Bogue Chitto]

 

  Logs hauled out with tractor.

[mike_belben]

but i was looking for ways to be more effecient because ill still be skidding and loading logs

I guess the biggest distinctions between logging and tree removal other than who pays who, is gonna be 1. how far are you dragging them and 2. What is done with the tops. 

If you can leave the tops out in the woods but have to skid em pretty far,  your most efficient first step will probably be a skidder.   Loading efficiently is the next biggest challenge but if you cant get them to the truck you dont need to worry about that yet.  If you can skid fast, and its good timber, you can survive by parbuckling at first.
   A mid sized self powered knuckleboom log loader crane mounted on a trailer that can load itself and the truck its hooked to is my advice for a one piece must do all unit to get started.  This way your cousin can be driving a load to the mill while you are still skidding and sorting back at the job. Efficient use of time is critical to have made any money by dark.

If you are in clay country i would start with a 6way dozer or drott loader as the skid machine.  Roads and drainage are critical for winter logging in southern clay.  Dozers achilles heel is speed.  Just dont go after really spread out jobs, work compact sites.  I get my trees by building ponds. Crawler loaders are slow and clumsy but cheap and strong.  Steep pulp, forget it.  But big fencerow oaks on mild terrain, yeah they can do well.  The only thing more valuable than a fat log is a long fat long.  Which is hardest to skid and load.  Thats where a crawler loader can make sense.  When one tree pays a grand.  But ya gotta be CDL to move any of this stuff.


Going back to that fork in the road.  If your customers have small lots with short distance from stump to street, and especially if tops must be cleaned up.. then a skidder isnt your best first expenditure, its a big tracked bobcat with a grapple.  Not the ideal logging machine but it is the ideal machine for a general contractor starting out and hungry to make money however it comes.    The stump grinder you have is a good component to hang onto for a while longer.

Youve not described your tractor yet.  You may have a good machine to add attachments to already.

If you dont have a CDL start thinking about it.  Logs are heavy.  You cant make good money unless you are hauling CDL weights.  There arent enough hours in the day or fuel in the tank to haul in 3 loads when it coulda been one.    If you get a CDL and hard times hit your logging operation, poof, log and dump driving jobs grow on trees.  Can be the difference between losing your equipment and keeping it.  Plus you get way more leads on cheap iron when youre in with the local crowd. A driving job can be a big springboard.  Youll learn which mills play scaling tricks before you haul your logs in. 

[dirthawger]

As far as my tractor goes its a mahindra 4530 44 hp 4wd with FEL. Plenty strong but im not doing another job until i get a grapple for the front and back.  I also have my CDL but not sure if its still valid. My license expires next year but i haven't had a dot physical in a few years nor have i drove a big rig so i may not have it anymore.  I've been leaning towards a loader is a definite must. Right now I believe we are CTL. We cut the trees down and then cut them up 16'6".

[enigmaT120]

Man that kind of money I wouldn't start a saw for honestly our low price for 36' right now is 800 per thousand and almost a grand for decent export. Highest value timber I've cut was 1500 a thousand for poles. How do you guys make it over there?

Don't torment them...  And didn't you cut some western red cedar?  I've seen some high prices for that but I don't know who was paying them.  And I'm bummed that ODF is no longer posting the quarterly timber price averages.  Is there another site for our area's average prices?

[starmac]

If you have a cdl but have not kept your medical card up, it has been suspended, BUT, you can take a physical from a dot approved provider and register it with the dmv (the doctor can't do this) but you can do it online and get your license reinstated online.
I would make this a priority before your license expires. Hauling by the ton at the prices you have posted, I do not see a way to stay under cdl and make wages, myself. 
You can have skidders, feler bunchers, danglehead processors, log shovels, all paid for, if you can not get enough product to market, it just amounts to a bunch of iron.

[chep]

If you are already cutting to length you should consider a smaller 6 wheel forwarder. 12 ton capacity. Move wood, and even better move brush and tops. Pile for burning or wildlife. Also can load trucks etc. In my opinion it's the most versatile logging machine out there. No bumper trees landowners love them.  Find a lowbed co that will haul it for you anywhere. Should be 300 $ per move as long as it's not to far. Find one that's not whipped for under 75k. It would set you apart big-time from skidder loggers to find the niche you are looking for
My 2 cents

[TKehl]

My setup is moving toward this:  4wd tractor with loader and grapple on front, log winch on back, and a couple few trailers that can be pulled with the tractor in the woods (receiver hitch on winch) and switched to truck on better roads.  Trailers will be pintle hitch and tounge heavy enough so they can be unhooked and rehooked without getting off the tractor using the 3 point.

I'd love to have a grapple trailer as well someday.

Versatile as I already have tractors and trucks with multiple uses.  Fewer engines to maintain and they are paid for.  Should be pretty good within a half hour of home and I only do it part time.  Plenty of properties that fit that bill for me.

I'll also add that one of the local loggers I know just bought a tracked skid steer and loves it.  He chases Walnut, veneer, and stave pretty hard though.  Low grade for him is big Sycamore or Red Oak.   ;)  He is a full time operation and does some dirt work to. 

[chubby]

Hey Tkehl, if I can offer any advise I'd say there is a growing market for private landowners that want clean wooded areas without sending in big equipment that's going to leave ruts and a mess. They're willing to allow a bigger cut of the share because their goal is to have a nice woods, not necessarily make the revenue from it.
If you're properly equipped to get out a decent haul AND not scar up the property, there is a small but growing niche market for you.

If you already have the tractor, get a winch. Of course, I'm going to suggest a KRPAN winch but i'm biased to a drum and brake system rather than a cheap sprocket and rachet system.. Next I'd get a log loader. FARMA is a site sponsor, I'd have a look at those. That will will allow you to fell the trees manually, skid them to the access road and pick them up and keep them out of the mud which is what portable sawmill and firewood processor guys are going to be looking for.

From there, you can put a nice log grapple on the front end loader and/ or a skidding grapple on the back but those can come later. The winch and the log loader, in my opinion, are necessities.

Protect your fuel tank and put a roll bar on the tractor and you'll be surprised what you can get out in a day.


 

[dirthawger]

i personally was gonna get a rear grapple instead of a winch. You think winch would be better than the rear grapple?

[chubby]

i personally was gonna get a rear grapple instead of a winch. You think winch would be better than the rear grapple?

A rear grapple is great if you already have a pile of trees or if you can drive right up to the tree. In a selective cut, the winch will allow you stay on the access road and pull the tree to you. From there, I much prefer the log loader as you can cut to length and load them right there. No more dragging and getting them dirty. Add a grapple will allow you to pull them to a landing and cut them to length there which just adds a step in most cases.
In my experience, those who have taken a rear grapple are farmers and landowners with their own sawmills or firewood processors. They pull tree lengths to the processor and do all the work there. You're bringing the logs home or selling them, go with A log loader.

[roger 4400]

Hi Tekhl !
I have a trailer forwarder that looks like Chubby, it is a Metavic 1150  14 ft of boom. What I do I put my Farmi 3 pt winch on my tractor pull the logs near the main trail , so this way your tractor is always in a nice trail, no damage under it. Then I get the forwarder on the tractor and carry the logs up to 16 footers. No damage to the trails or in the wood, winch with a pulley (snatch block ) can do miracles. Roger

[mike_belben]

As far as my tractor goes its a mahindra 4530 44 hp 4wd with FEL. Plenty strong but im not doing another job until i get a grapple for the front and back.

Front grapple, rear winch.  If a tree is accessible and a short skid you just drive in forward, grapple the butt and pull it out in reverse.  If its over a hill or needs to be snaked between keeper trees you wont be able to retrieve it with front or rear grapples so the winch is critical.

A haywagon trailer with 4post bunks might be something to think about after you get the tractor set up.  Bring it out to the woods and haul your 16s out few trees at a time.  Save a lot of fuel when the load is rolling on wheels instead of dragging. 

[dirthawger]

Was wondering if contracting logging trucks might be a better option for right now. How much do they usually charge?

[Skeans1]

Out here the trucking is off a rate like here my rate I get paid doesn't matter mule train or long logger is the same. When I have a sub truck come I normally have to pay extra on top of that rate seems like on top of the rate I'd pay 900 or so a week in trucking for roughly 20 loads a week with a 30 to 31 ton payload truck.

[Puffergas]

A number of people i know hire the trucking, hard to do it all.

[chevytaHOE5674]

UP here other than some large operations, guys are either loggers or truckers. Not enough hours in the day to do both.

[thecfarm]

I use to cut with  my Father,on this land. Tractor,winch,small scale.
Oh yea,I heard the truck thing a few times. I could haul my own wood where I wanted too. :  And other reasons. I had a trucker,he hauled my wood where I told him too. If I'm driving,who's getting the wood out? I had no drivers license for a truck like that. How long would that take for me to get one? I won't even get into the price of a truck. No sense in talking about insurance for it. Normal wear and tear,nope,won't talk about that either. A break down??   
Yes,it cost to pay a trucker,but add up all the above and see how the math is.
We would only get 2-3 trucks load a month. At that time I had a full time job too.