Can anyone help me decipher the marking on the bar of my MS261cm?

Crusarius · June 22, 2018, 05:41:11 PM

Well I was just outside working on clearing a spot to setup my mill. I was cutting a tree down and wouldn't you know it there is a rock that looked just like the trunk that I tried to cut in half. Well the rock has a real nice groove in it but the blade is not cutting so nice now.

The bar look like this

Crusarius · June 22, 2018, 05:43:13 PM

I don't know anything about full chisel part chisel drill or anything about chains. any help would be apreciated.

armechanic · June 22, 2018, 07:37:33 PM

20" = bar length
81 = drive links
.325 = pitch
.063 = width of groove in bar

Crusarius · June 22, 2018, 09:11:00 PM

that helps a ton. thankyou.

now i just need to find a chain or 3 to have in stock.

teakwood · June 23, 2018, 08:26:36 AM

Buy a 2 in 1 Stihl or Pferd Sharper, 35-40$, it would have to be in 0.325" for this saw. That's the best sharper and easy to use for People who aren't good at freehand filing.

Learn how to sharpen a chain!!

You can have the best chainsaw in the world but if the chain is not sharp it's useless

lxskllr · June 23, 2018, 09:22:43 AM

To add to the "learn to sharpen" comment, it'll be easier at first if you don't wait til it's dull. Reading around, a lot of people touch up the chain at every fuel fill. I've taken up that practice, and it makes everything easier. If the chain isn't trashed, it's simply a matter of making what's already there a bit better. Use the tooth as a guide, or if you trashed the teeth, the witness mark on the chain will show the angle.

I got decent at sharpening chains when my boss needed some wood cleared. That stuff had been dropped by a dozer, and pushed around several times. They were virtually hard dirt sticks. I had to sharpen about 3 times per tank of fuel. Granted, when I started, I wasn't the best sharpener, but I really got my practice in on that job. I now do a very competent job, though not perfect. I could get close to perfect, but don't want to invest time for a marginal improvement that gets quickly lost after using. Get the best I can with as few strokes as possible. I tried using file guides on a buddy's saw, but I never really got on with it. It overly complicated the setup. Spent more time looking at marks, and trying to be perfect than getting teeth sharpened.

I'd start with a bare file(correctly sized for your chain), and see how you do. If there's issues, ask questions. Perhaps try a guide. You'll get it eventually, and it'll pay off in self sufficiency, and money savings over taking them to a shop. Oh, and new files are glorious. They're consumables. Use it til it quits cutting well, then get a new one. A new file makes the job easier. I really like Stihl files.

One other thing... on the question of full vs semi chisel... This is based solely on reading around here, but going on that, full chisel cuts faster, but dulls faster. Semi chisel holds up better to dirty conditions. I'd like to try a semi chisel chain some time cause a lot of the stuff I cut is pretty dirty. Assuming what I wrote is accurate, a semi chisel would probably be best for a "generalist" cutter. eg farm type duties where you're doing a little bit of everything, under varying conditions. For pure wood cutting, a full chisel would be best.

Crusarius · June 23, 2018, 02:36:51 PM

Thanks everyone. The input is greatly appreciated. I think I need to find someone who is good at sharpening chains and get a few lessons. I guess step one is to get the correct file.

I expect most of my cutting to be dirty wood that has fallen or been skidded. The worst thing I do is try to cut the stumps off flush with the ground. That is what happened to this chain. Darn rock. It looked just like the trunk. Didn't cut as nice

You are definitely correct about a sharp chain that saw cut amazing till I hit that rock then it did not cut well at all. So I will get a few to have on standbye for the next camouflage rock that plays tree

thecfarm · June 23, 2018, 08:43:03 PM

Keep cutting them stumps low!!!
I had a Father that drove that into my head. When we was cutting on this land,I took his advice that I heard for 40 years. Never once did he have to say,cut the stump lower next time. Yes,I know how to sharpen a chain too. Lots of practice. My Father is gone,but stumps are still cut low.
I had a Father that could sharpen anything he owned,be it a one man buck saw,cordwood saw,or a chainsaw or an axe too. But he was born in 1923. You had sharp tools or worked way harder than was needed.
But that sharpening skills was not passed onto to me. Even though I watched him sharpen things many,many times.Finally I took a log and told myself I will get this. Took me just about a whole chain to get it,and about a 8 foot log, ;D but I figured it out. For me I was getting a better angle on one side than the other. I think when the motor is on the right is when things can go wrong.

Crusarius · June 23, 2018, 09:48:01 PM

I am sharpeningly challenged. I cannot even sharpen drill bits with a drill doctor. Either that or the drill bits are to far gone to bring back?

I hope thats the case. I do need to learn chainsaw blades and band saw blades. really not have to rely on resharp.

Skeans1 · June 24, 2018, 05:53:21 AM

Myself I can get by with a file but most of the time when I'm falling for a day I carry up to 6 chains per bar length with me ground and ready. To the low stumps I normally cut low enough that my full wrap saws just barely have enough room in the back cut but what's your back worth and how hard is it to recut a stump flush. Moral of all of this buy a grinder you'll thank yourself over and over again.

teakwood · June 24, 2018, 08:41:46 AM

Crusarius: You need a 3/16"/ 4.8mm file for that chain.

joe_indi · June 24, 2018, 08:59:33 AM

Quote from: Crusarius on June 22, 2018, 05:41:11 PM
Well I was just outside working on clearing a spot to setup my mill. I was cutting a tree down and wouldn't you know it there is a rock that looked just like the trunk that I tried to cut in half. Well the rock has a real nice groove in it but the blade is not cutting so nice now.

The bar look like this

3003 008 6821

The 3003 denotes the bar mount which is suitable for nearly most of the current models of Stihl
The other mount in use the 3005 for the smaller saws like the 170 to the 250
The 008 is an internal code
In the next four digits the first two (here the 68 ) denotes the version of the guidebar. 68 means it is a Rollomatic with 16mm/063" groove width
The nose sprocket has 11 teeth
Pitch is .325"
The last two digits (21 ) means the bar length is 20"
The replacement nose sprocket for this bar would be #3003 650 9926
So, the chains suitable for this bar would be the full chisel 26RSc (Rapid Super) or the semi chisel 26RM (Rapid Micro)
The RM might be a better option for your application if you cut closer to the ground.

Crusarius · June 24, 2018, 09:54:19 AM

Thanks Teak, and Joe. I might just happen to have a 3/16 file from my other saw. Maybe I can try my luck and breathe some life back into it.

The amount of detail I just got is quite a bit more than I was expecting. The ppl on this forum are great.

Thanks everyone for the help.

Grandedog · June 27, 2018, 04:51:10 PM

Howdy,

If you haven't bought any yet, I have some loops that are a perfect fit for your application on a "stock on hand sale". http://leftcoastsupplies.com/product/clearance-chain-22bpx-81-dl-loop-spc-22bpx81/
Regards
Gregg

John Mc · July 02, 2018, 02:28:03 PM

If you want to learn to sharpen a chain, one of the Game Of Logging instructors in my area made a video of proper sharpening techniques. You do have to pay for it ($6.99 to download, $9.99 for a DVD), but it's one of the better sharpening tutorials I've seen (and I've looked at a lot of them - some OK, some just outright bad advice). You can find a link to it from his company's home page: NorthEast Woodland Training. (The Game of Logging classes they teach are also worth checking out. There is another guy teaching these classes out closer to where you live, Crusarius.)

The video does show the use of a guide (two types of guides, if I recall, and a bit on using a grinder). Over the years of my chainsaw use, I've run into a few people who are really good at sharpening freehand with just a bare file. I've also run into a whole lot of people who think they are good at freehand sharpening: their work generally results in something that cuts better than the dull chain they started with, but are too "grabby", or don't last worth a darn, or just don't cut as well as a properly sharpened chain. Since I would most likely end up in the latter group, I use a guide. Typically one of these styles:

I've also used the sharpener made by Pferd/Stihl with good results, but it's a bit more cumbersome to carry with me in the woods.

Crusarius · July 02, 2018, 02:50:45 PM

I was working on getting hooked up with Game of logging but somehow I lost all the info and they never contacted me. so Till I take some time to find it again I am stuck without.

I would really like to get a class though. I need all the help I can get.

John Mc · July 02, 2018, 03:06:15 PM

Game of Logging Training Organizations

Look as though Bill Lindloff would be the closest to you?
Most of the training organizations travel around a bit from where they are based.

teakwood · July 03, 2018, 08:25:19 AM

I have tried both of the sharpers in that pic from John MC

The one on the left works fine but doesn't indicate the angle very well, the one on the right i find just bad and it's so tiny that you can loose it easy.
the 2in1 is way better than both those sharpers, IMO

Crusarius · July 03, 2018, 08:44:02 AM

Well. I received 6 chains and 2 files yesterday. Thanks left coast!

Now I just need to find some time to use them

Hopefully tomorrow I can spend some time Milling the spalted maple I prepped over the weekend.

I really need to get some paint on the sawmill. I am paranoid of getting rained on and having everything rust.

John Mc · July 03, 2018, 11:01:57 AM

Quote from: teakwood on July 03, 2018, 08:25:19 AM
I have tried both of the sharpers in that pic from John MC

The one on the left works fine but doesn't indicate the angle very well, the one on the right i find just bad and it's so tiny that you can loose it easy.
the 2in1 is way better than both those sharpers, IMO

I generally use the first one pictured. I have no problems maintaining angles, since they are stamped in the metal of the holder. I just line the marks up with the bar up at the beginning of the stroke, and maintain that angle through the stroke. The wedge holster on my tool belt has a slot for a file - it's a snug fit, but I can fit the guide with file into that file slot.
I get very good results with the second one (the "roller guide"), though I don't use it much. It is easier to lose, but the fact that it is small is one of the reasons I tried it. It can ride in the bottom of the wedge pocket on my chaps or in the wedge holster of my tool belt, so it's handy whenever I need it. While I don't carry it much, I do lend it out to friends from time to time. It's handy for those who have problems with rocking their file up and down while filing (for some reason, lots of people new to sharpening tend to push down on the handle as they make the stroke): I just tell them to make sure it stays in contact with both rollers. Once they've used it a bit, they get the muscle memory to use other guides without dropping the handle during the stroke.
I do like the "Stihl 2 in 1" / "Pferd Chain Sharp CS-X". I get good results when I use it, and it's certainly faster than filing the teeth and the depth gauges separately. My main problem with it is that I don't have a good way to carry it with me. My other beef is with how it handles the depth gauges: It does not "customize" the depth gauge height to the associated tooth the way some other depth gauge tools do (including the one with the roller guide). This means you have to keep all the tooth lengths equal - by eyeballing or by counting strokes. With a depth gauge tool that works like the one on the roller guide (or on the old Carlton "File-o-plate" guides), each depth gauge is matched with the tooth that follows it, so there is no need (within reason) to keep all the teeth the same. If I damage a couple of teeth, or all the teeth on one side, I can take just those teeth down further to get them sharp (and hope the next time I hit something it will be with the teeth on the other side). That style of depth gauge tool also does a better job of adjusting the gauge as the tooth gets filed way back, IMO. The differences may not matter to some, and as I said, the Stihl/Pferd sharpener does do a good job

samandothers · July 03, 2018, 11:34:45 AM

Sharpening takes practice or time. Do it after each tank or at least When you break midday and end of. I think next sharpener I'll try is the 2 in 1 Teakwood talked about. This will get the links and drag teeth in one go. Ok, I'm lazy!

Skeans1 · July 03, 2018, 10:49:12 PM

Take this for what it's worth typically I'll bring enough chains to run all day say 6 or 8 but this is for production falling work. If you're doing any production or even considering production work filing would be out of the question, you can swap the chain, clean the rails, and open up the Oiler before you file both sides of a 20" full comp round chain.

teakwood · July 04, 2018, 08:24:13 AM

Quote from: John Mc on July 03, 2018, 11:01:57 AM
Quote from: teakwood on July 03, 2018, 08:25:19 AM
I have tried both of the sharpers in that pic from John MC

The one on the left works fine but doesn't indicate the angle very well, the one on the right i find just bad and it's so tiny that you can loose it easy.
the 2in1 is way better than both those sharpers, IMO
I generally use the first one pictured. I have no problems maintaining angles, since they are stamped in the metal of the holder. I just line the marks up with the bar up at the beginning of the stroke, and maintain that angle through the stroke. The wedge holster on my tool belt has a slot for a file - it's a snug fit, but I can fit the guide with file into that file slot.
I get very good results with the second one (the "roller guide"), though I don't use it much. It is easier to lose, but the fact that it is small is one of the reasons I tried it. It can ride in the bottom of the wedge pocket on my chaps or in the wedge holster of my tool belt, so it's handy whenever I need it. While I don't carry it much, I do lend it out to friends from time to time. It's handy for those who have problems with rocking their file up and down while filing (for some reason, lots of people new to sharpening tend to push down on the handle as they make the stroke): I just tell them to make sure it stays in contact with both rollers. Once they've used it a bit, they get the muscle memory to use other guides without dropping the handle during the stroke.
I do like the "Stihl 2 in 1" / "Pferd Chain Sharp CS-X". I get good results when I use it, and it's certainly faster than filing the teeth and the depth gauges separately. My main problem with it is that I don't have a good way to carry it with me. My other beef is with how it handles the depth gauges: It does not "customize" the depth gauge height to the associated tooth the way some other depth gauge tools do (including the one with the roller guide). This means you have to keep all the tooth lengths equal - by eyeballing or by counting strokes. With a depth gauge tool that works like the one on the roller guide (or on the old Carlton "File-o-plate" guides), each depth gauge is matched with the tooth that follows it, so there is no need (within reason) to keep all the teeth the same. If I damage a couple of teeth, or all the teeth on one side, I can take just those teeth down further to get them sharp (and hope the next time I hit something it will be with the teeth on the other side). That style of depth gauge tool also does a better job of adjusting the gauge as the tooth gets filed way back, IMO. The differences may not matter to some, and as I said, the Stihl/Pferd sharpener does do a good job

Well said John!

Crusarius · July 05, 2018, 07:44:02 AM

Well. I decided to go cut up some aspen yesterday so I could mill some stickers. instead of changing to a new chain I thought I would try my luck at sharpening the original one.

I had round 3/16 file without a guide or handle and just kinda used the teeth as a guide. I managed to get it sharpened and it cut just like before I hit the rock. Maybe I have a chance at hand sharpening after all?

John Mc · July 05, 2018, 08:24:12 AM

It's not hard to learn, it just takes some practice. The key is to practice it right. Practicing poor technique can form habits that are hard to break. It does not take much to sharpen a chain so it works better than after it hit a rock. The goal is to get it cutting better than it did when it was new.

One thing that helps some people getting started with hand sharpening is to do 2 or 3 sharpenings on the chain themselves, then take it to someone who really knows their stuff to either hand sharpen or sharpen on a grinder to bring all the angles back into spec. (NOTE: It's easy to wreck a chain on a grinder if you don't know what you are doing. The kid at the local hardware store is unlikely to be any good at operating their chain grinder. He's probably had 15 minutes of training.)

In my opinion, a fair amount of new chain may be sharp, but it's not right, and thus is not hard to beat when you resharpen. One major chain manufacturer who prides themselves on "sharp out of the box", packages chain that does not meet their own specifications for sharpening: Their teeth have too much hook to them, resulting in a chain that can be rather "grabby". They try to counter this by leaving the depth gauges too high, reducing the bite that each tooth takes. It cuts fairly well when brand new, but the sharp hook does not hold up well. After just a bit of normal use in hardwoods, you are left with a slightly dull chain making chips that are too small.