WHAT DO YOU CHARGE FOR SAWING?

[rs1626]

THIS QUESTION HAS PROBABLY BEEN ASKED MORE THAN ONCE   BUT WHAT DO YOU CHARGE FOR SAWING 4/4   6/4  8/4  DO YOU CHARGE BY THE HOUR OR BDFT?

[J_T]

These parts .20or.25bf I haven't done any yet .Usuly send them somewhere else .

[Tom]

Yep, been asked a lot.  Right now my price is 20 cents a foot to cut "wood".  I'll cut it into whatever sizes you want. There is no distinction for 4/4 as opposed to 8/4.

If you want me to saw by the hour, it's $55 per hour.

[Wes]

 $50. or more setup depending on distance, and $50.hr.

[Kevin_H.]

Right now we are charging .20 cents a board foot, and a $25.00 set up fee for anything less that 1000 BF.

We scale the logs and use that # to come up the BF for the day.

[ronwood]

Kevin_H,

What scale do you use to measure the board ft? If you happen to have a log that only has 50% of the lumber that is good do you charge the for the whole log?

rs1626  
30 cents bd ft. with a setup fee of $25.00.

Ron

[Kevin_H.]

We use the scribner scale. We were using the doyle but we were giving away too much free sawing.  ;D

If we load the log and saw it we charge the full scale, as I think it takes as long to saw a rotten log as it does to saw a good one.

The same goes for crooked logs, if we put it on the saw and cut it up we charge full scale.

Now if we open the log up and it is no good, and we remove the whole mess from the saw after a cut or two, then we dont charge for that.

Ron, you are just across the creek from me, are you having any problems getting the 30 cents?

[ronwood]

Most of my work comes from one gentleman. Last year I did around 18,000 bd ft. My deal with him is 25 cents per bd ft since he is regular customer. In the metro area I don't seem to have any problems getting 30 cents.

I was out west of St. Louis today lining up a job sawing 60 logs. Quote him 25 cents. He had another sawyer cut some for him last year and they charged 17 cents. Could not get him this year.

Not sure that I would be able to get 30 cents out in the country.

[Kevin_H.]

We have been kinda kicking around raising our custom price to 25 cents per. At this point I dont think it would cause us any loss of customers.

Once in a while we get someone that has been quoted a lower price from someone else, I will typically tell them to contact the other person to set up there sawing.

Right now, part time I have more than enough to do.

[WeeksvilleWoodWorx]

I'd like to add a question. How do you guys that charge a flat bf rate justify to yourselves cutting any thickness for the same price? I'm new at this, in the two weeks I've had my mill I've cut a whack of 4/4 cypress and another of 8/4 pine. I sure could make a lot more money cutting 8/4

[DanG]

Hi, Brian. Welcome, and congrats on the new mill!   8)

I think you'll find, when you get up to speed, that most of your time is spent prepping, loading, and squaring up the log. After that, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference what thickness you're cutting.

[Shamus]

DanG, good point, unless you are milling with a chainsaw, where each cut can take over a minute. Of course then you have to charge > $.75/bdft to get anywhere. The only way I have made it work is to go the 50/50 route for custom milling. I guess that's why I am looking to upgrade!  ;D ;D

danG sawdust...

[KILROY]

Presently .20 per board foot.  In Ohio, you can probably get more depending on how much competition with other customing sawing there is.
 
Like Tom said,you are just cutting wood. Trying to figure out what to charge can be difficult. What is adequate compensation for my time, equipment investment and operating expenses?  Start off on the higher side. It is easier to go down than up.

When you count the finished lumber, count usable wood. Look at it as if you were being charged for that board. If two foot is rotten on the end, do not count it. Strive to cut the best quality of lumber that you can. You are not selling them lumber. There will be defects in the log that you can not saw around, such as cracks,rot,sweep.

Stack the lumber so you can count it. Count the nominal size of the board. 1 1/8 and under is considered a 1 inch board. 1 1/ 8 to 2 inch is a 2 inch board, etc. On the length, count the closest foot. If you cut 2by4, 2by6 or 4by4s for example ask the customer what actual size they would like the board to be,but charge by the nominal size.

If a job has a lot of logs under 8 inches charge more for those logs. If the logs are large you should receive more for the extra time it takes to handle them. If the job is a good one, skip it and just charge a flat rate straight through.  I normally charge a flat rate unless cutting something unusual or time consuming. You can also adjust your rate depending on how well the customer's wife cooks. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Be a little bit flexable and you will have repeat customers.

I have been customing sawing since 1986 and have sawn over a million board foot with Wood-Mizer saws.

[KILROY]

Kevin,

Why don't you just count the lumber? A log scale may not be accurate. Unless you are doing a cost analysis of some kind, I do not understand why you would charge this way.

[WeeksvilleWoodWorx]

DanG,

Thanks for the welcome and reply.

I still can't find the justification, in my mind anyways, for flat bf rate. If we are getting paid to CUT, then I have to make twice as many cuts at 4/4 to get the same bf as 8/4 ??? Plus machine and blade wear. Now I don't think it should be double the money, as you said a lot of the work is prep, but I am thinkin of upping the ante a little bit for anything under 6/4.Just trying to get my rates straight and you guys generally provide DanG good info Maybe everyone is making money at 4/4 and anything thicker is gravy

I have a simular dilema with one of my other ventures, stump grinding. Gots people pricing by the diameter inch. Sounds good $2 an inch right? That means $36 for an 18 inch stump and $72 for a 36 incher. Only one problem, everytime you double the diameter the area quadruples!!!!!! Four times the work for twice the money ???

[Fla._Deadheader]

Brian, what most of the guys are saying, is, the sawing rate IS based on 4/4. When you saw 8/4 it takes just as long to saw, but, the board is heavier and takes longer and more effort to stack, so, you are, in essence, STILL getting the 4/4 rate, by sawing 8/4. A GOOD offbearer can make you more money at 8/4 sawing, IF ya don't wear him out.

  We get .35 bd/ft, no matter what dimension, over 3/4".  That's for my son and I, NO other help wanted.

  We recently re-sawed some 1X 6 stock, and I charged the .35 even though we had to make 2 passes. The customer will be a repeat, so, I figured a little PR at .35 would make both of us happy, and we would get his business later on, on a semi-monthly basis.

[KILROY]

 Fla._Deadheader,

 EXCELLENT explaination!  ;D

 The sawing charge is just an average.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  I would like to ask Kevin H, why do you saw by the log scale ???  Everyone that uses a thin kerf Bandmill gets over run of up to 50% of the log scale, in actual lumber???

  We just flat stack the lumber and measure length X width X thickness ??? Seems to me you ARE giving away way to much ??? All scale sticks are figured using ¼" kerf. 4 boards on a bandmill gives you 1 extra one ???

  Maybe I didn't read your post correctly ???

[WeeksvilleWoodWorx]

Thanks FDH

That was the impression I was getting but nobody came out and said it! It is also my son and I. We have only cut together twice, but Saturday we were cutting at a friends house for the wood and I had a different off bearer a couple of times, man did I miss him. I think we work together very well, anticipating each others moves.

Thanks,

Brian

[Kevin_H.]

There are several reasons we saw by the scale,

First, using the scribner scale we come pretty close to actual BF, on some days we may give away a little but not enough to really make a difference.

When we first started we had a couple of customers that would throw away any board that did'nt make, say 8 feet, If it had a bad spot in it and came up short they didnt want to add it to the tally. Even now that we saw by the scale we still have customers that throw away boards that I would keep. By using the scale, They can pitch any board they want and it makes no difference to the end count.

We would also have customers who would want you to saw a log that was really to far gone, You would spend just as much time sawing this bad log as you would a good one, but again they would throw away much of the boards and you would winde up spending as much time, but only getting half the tally on that log. It goes the same for logs with alot of sweep or crook, it takes just as long or longer to saw this, so why should I take less $ for the same amount of time just because to log didnt make scale.

We on occasion have a saw job where the boards are hauled away and stacked in a shed or barn as the job progressed, by using the scale, I dont care what they do with them once they come off my saw.

By using the scale, a customer can call with the DIB and length and I can get real close to what the job will run.

And last but not least I hate counting boards at the end of the day ;D

[Fla._Deadheader]

Kevin, I see your dilemma. Maybe these high dollar folks we saw for don't understand things too good  : :

  I tell them that any board that don't make a clean 8 footer will be figgered on whatever clean it does make. Most will admit that they would probably cut the bad off anyway.

  We also throw in a freebie occasionally. That always makes 'em feel good.

  Ed keeps a lot of stuff in his head and can remember to write it down occasionally. Nobody beats us out of sawn lumber, unless we allow it. : :D :D

  Know whatcha mean about son's making good offbearers, Brian. Don'T forget to let him do same sawin, also. Keeps their interest up and helps with figgerin when and how to turn them logs   ;) ;);D ;D ;D

[oakiemac]

I used to hate counting boards at the end of a job, so I too considered going hourly rate or by log scale. But I learned an extermely easy way to "scale" or count the board footage. You just stack all the lumber in a nice neat stack then measure width in inches minus any gaps between boards, multiply length in feet, divide by 12 then multiply by thickness. This is your board footage for 1 layer, next just count layers and multiply. Takes hardly any time and couldn't be easier.
I think flat bf rates is the most fare to customer and me.

[DR Buck]

I'm still new at this, having only started in February.  But, I've had no problem getting .25 bf for flat sawn and .40 for quarter sawn.  I charge only for finished lumber and the customer "must" provide their own off-bearer, or the price goes up .05 bf.

This pricing must be OK, 'cause I got over 80,000 bf backlog to saw.

[Wes]

 I have charged by the bf , one customer insisted. I charged $50. setup, $25. each move, and .35bf milled lumber.

 When I estamate lumber volume in a log I have found that on an average I am able to mill about 20% over the 1/4" international scale. Does that sound rite or am I looking at this wrong ?

[Minnesota_boy]

I've scaled quite a few logs and then sawed them to see how they would saw out.  I used the Scribner scale and found out the overrun would vary between 20% and 50% with an occasional log going to double scale.  Now I get pithed if I can't saw at least 20% over scale and I start to smile when I get more than 50% over.