iDRY Vacuum Kilns

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making weights for top of stacks

Started by ozarkgem, September 09, 2014, 06:34:56 AM

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ozarkgem

Quote from: tule peak timber on September 14, 2014, 09:59:32 AM
Where my wood goes for the first couple of weeks...

   The slab is flat and full of steel, while the rest of my storage is on dirt. Rob
are those all slabs?  what size stickers do you use? Do you rotate the top ones out after a few weeks?  Nice looking stack. I guess you don't worry about rain from what I read.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

tule peak timber

Ozark, That pic is of a job we have ongoing with a college. Yes, all 2 1/2 inch thick slabs on 1/4 inch stickers. I do rotate drier lifts onto fresh cut lifts, then out to the storage yard on dirt ,bunked up. I try to handle the lifts as little as possible as it just eats up time/profits. This year - less than 1 inch of rain so far....
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

YellowHammer

Tule,
Very impressive, no crooked boards in the bottom of those stacks. 8)
What kind of forklift are you using to lift such heavy lumber packs so high?  Looks like the forklift can't get on the concrete pad, but must be sitting on the earth? Is it an all terrain or telehandler?
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

tule peak timber

I call this my "truing slab ". The wood goes here after coming off the mill and doesn't stay here very long, only long enough to drop moisture significantly before going to other storage in pole barns or an open lot on bunks. Works pretty well for my style of work , but as someone pointed out earlier in the thread , errant boards still develop twist and crook - no matter what....I use a Champ all terrain forklift , and recently bought an additional Cat R-80. Both are high lift units . The reason I don't stack higher is because of the frequent earthquakes at my place and the seasonal high winds. I think I get better results with more weight...... Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

ozarkgem

never thought about earthquakes knocking your stack over. That would suck.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

tule peak timber

Not to discount the wind either...A year or two ago wind tumbled some oak boards across the yard and took out the running board and door panel on a blazer parked 50 feet away from the stack. If I run rain covers I use 1/2 inch rope to double tie the cover to the stack. We learn the hard-way around here  ;D
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

jimF

While some weight may be helpful, and non straight grain attributes to the problem, the biggest factor in lumber distortion is non uniform air flow.  More air flow on one side of the board is the cause of most lumber distortion, in or outside the kiln.  It does not matter whether the lumber is thick or thin it can either be kept flat with uniform airflow or made into a pretzel with nonuniform airflow.

Den Socling

I don't know about that. Thick pieces can have more grain variation and can be more difficult. I've seen them lift plates in my vac kilns. With no air flow.

jimF


Den Socling


Kingcha

I made a weight this summer and have only just used it.    I basically built a 4x4 pallet with built in stickers on the bottom to give plenty of air flow.   The top I just poured a 3" layer of concrete in a box.   I am able to lift it with my bucket forks and place it on top of the pile.   It seemed faster then hand piling blocks.

Matt
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

ozarkgem

I poured a floor the other day and I made a form out of some 2x12's 4' long and used the left over concrete to make some weights. I put a rebar lifting eye in them also
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Glenn1

I was looking at Yellowhammer's post and the picture of kiln dried lumber sitting on top of pallets of green lumber.  From reading his web page, I understand that he will be out of commission for awhile recovering from a hip transplant.

I was wondering how long you could leave the kiln dried lumber  "out in the open" before the moisture content would considerably increase. Would it still be considered "kiln dried lumber"?

Yellowhammer, hope you are feeling better  and that you will be running marathons in no time.   ;D
Vacutherm IDry, Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

WDH

If the kiln dried lumber is dead stacked, it will take a good long while for it to gain a lot of moisture except for the top boards that are exposed to the air.  I suspect that it would take months, but the kiln dried will eventually resort back to air dried. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Glenn1

Quote from: WDH on September 28, 2014, 08:08:24 PM
If the kiln dried lumber is dead stacked, it will take a good long while for it to gain a lot of moisture except for the top boards that are exposed to the air.  I suspect that it would take months, but the kiln dried will eventually resort back to air dried.

Does the term "dead stacked" refer to lumber where the stickers have been removed?
Vacutherm IDry, Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

WDH

Yes, also referred to as "flat stacked".  This would keep the air from circulating between the boards and significantly slow down the process of the wood re-absorbing water from the environment.  Covering the flat stacked, kiln dried wood with plastic will also significantly slow down the process.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

 
Quote from: WDH on September 29, 2014, 08:11:37 AM
Covering the flat stacked, kiln dried wood with plastic will also significantly slow down the process
smiley_thumbsup
Normally, our kiln dried lumber sells as fast as I can process it, so it doesn't get much of a chance to regain moisture before it's sold and gone.  However, whenever we have inventory that will not sell quickly, such as now due to our temporary shutdown, we wrap it in plastic to provide protection from insects and environmental moisture.  Below is a picture of some of our air dried and kiln dried lumber ready to go into a holding pattern.  We purchase bulk plastic wrap from either Lowes and Home Depot.

The unweighted and under length pallet of high grade cherry in the foreground is going to be a problem as it dries. 
Yh


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Brad_S.

Quote from: Seaman on September 13, 2014, 01:08:20 PM
  I am going to try the bander also.
Since the lumber shrinks when it dries, the bands will loosen in short order and become useless. Just wastes banding. I know this from experience.  ::)

I have 13' pieces of railroad track that I put on my Koetter kiln loads. I feel it helps the top layers hold flatter and with each charge being only 500 bdft or so, every little bit helps.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

beenthere

YH
Am aware that you are healing up from the new hip, but why would lumber sales need to go into the holding pattern? Just curious..

Hope the hip heals for a speedy recovery.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WDH

The lumber does not get sawn, stickered, put into the kiln, planed, then put into racks unless someone with with two hips does it  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Den Socling

And I can't imagine climbing on and off a fork lift with bad hips.

beenthere

I realize that, but was thinking sales could be just monitoring the buyer while they load the sellers lumber.
Was only thinking of the dry lumber stash here... not sawing, drying, stickering, stacking...etc.  ;)

But if not possible, then I understand sales can't take place. Closed sign up.

And I do realize one doesn't want just anybody running your equipment... or tearing into your lumber piles.
But is not like you are not there to give directions and monitoring your stash.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

YellowHammer

Beenthere, very good question, and I've started a new topic in the Full Membership Business Board where I will try to reconfigure our Mom and Pop business to prevent it from literally crippling me.

Quote from: Den Socling on September 29, 2014, 08:49:08 PM
And I can't imagine climbing on and off a fork lift with bad hips.
It doesn't work well...7 weeks ago, I hung my left foot in the tractor steps because my right hip suddenly locked up, hit the ground with my foot trapped, and ended up tearing my meniscus in my left knee. Duh!  That surgery will be sometime in December.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

5quarter

I don't weight any of my stacks. After the stack is built, I lay one more course of stickers and lay down sheets of 3/4" OSB. On top I lay 2 good RR ties to keep it from blowing off. on top of that I screw down some corrugated tin to keep the rain off. if its Oak, I use a Shade dri type material under the OSB that curtains the front and back of the stack to restrict airflow. I'm with Jim F, uneven airfow is the primary cause for many drying defects.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

logboy

Quote from: logboy on September 13, 2014, 10:40:18 PM
I sticker every 2' and put two blocks, 50 pounds each, every 4' or so. I may put more if its a wide crotch or something I suspect might cup. The thing I like about blocks is that they still permit airflow unlike a five gallon bucket or something that could leave a big black mold circle. Blocks are also cheap and easy to find. I got a couple ton worth for only $50 on craigslist. I've unfortunately sold a lot of discount slabs because I thought simply stickering them was good enough. The top slabs in the stack turned into potato chips or firewood. Now everything gets weight on top. Its definitely not like drying lumber. Slabs are easy to ruin.




I came across this thread while looking for something else and figured I should add a couple points in regards to drying slabs. I have to say it again, slabs are not lumber. They have their own issues and challenges to overcome that are a lot different from lumber. What works for lumber usually doesn't work for slabs.

Adding weight to the top of my slabs keeps them flat during air drying, but there's a tradeoff. Remember, wood shrinks more around than it does across (tangential shrinkage is greater than radial shrinkage). Because of this, slabs always want to warp toward the outside of the log. So above the pith they cup up, and below the pith the cup down. The pith slab usually does a bit of both, but because it's trying to warp in both directions, cracks.  That right there should tell you something. Its essentially a battle between warping and cracking. If you don't want it to warp, then you have to overcome the structural integrity of the cells so that they crack, and the slab stays flat. Those are your two choices: a warped slab or a cracked slab. In a perfect world we could cut slabs that were cupped toward the pith and then let them dry without weight, and they would warp toward the outside, end up flat and without cracks. (Im good with a slabber, but not that good.)

Please note that this tactic I use to keep them flat doesnt really work in the kiln. In air drying the process is much slower and its easier to make them crack. In the kiln the drying, warping, and shrinking process happens a lot faster and its a lot more difficult to make them crack. Ive tried hundreds of pounds and they still warp. I will say this, the longer you can air dry them with weight on top, the flatter they usually stay in the kiln. I have planed massive slabs that I cut for other people that they kiln dried, and mine are always flatter. When a slab I cut at 3" thick still doesnt clean up at 2", you know its warped. And if the slab doesnt clean up at 2" and gets thinner, then its no longer a slab, its just a wide board. Most of the warping in slabs happens during air drying, not in the kiln. Keep them flat and weighted during air drying and you'll have better success in the kiln.

Just my two cents, take it for what its worth.
I like Lucas Mills and big wood.  www.logboy.com

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