Cheapest Way to Build a Garage ?

[Pulphook]

It's garage time at last after 20 years. 2 cars, splitters, brush cutters, deck umbrellas, power washer, tires, etc... some upstairs storage, about 28X28, unheated, uninsulated, slab, not steel. 2x4 is fine.
She wants it cedar shingled like we did with the house.

Options:
Stick built
"Kits" from lumber shops
Pre Manufactured

Suggestions ?

[OntarioAl]

May I make one suggestion.
Go with at least a 10 ft. ceiling
The three options you list are based on time  and of course $$
Stick built most time consuming may or may not be cheaper than a garage package.
Pre manufactured is going to be the most $ but ready to use quickly
Cheers
Al

[AZ_builder]

Pole barn style is fairly cheap. 3" drill pipe from the scrap yard for poles and beams. Manufactured truss's and sheet metal.

[mike_belben]

Pole framed.  


If there was anything cheaper the south woulda figured it out by now.

[AZ_builder]

Just re read, you said not steel, sorry. Still a wood pole barn is pry the cheapest

[Bruno of NH]

Wooden pole style with perlins 2' oc with plywood or boards then wood shingles.
Attic storage truss.
Or kit from LaValley/Middleton building supply.
Your in Maine?
They are right across in NH

[Pulphook]

Wooden pole style with perlins 2' oc with plywood or boards then wood shingles.
Attic storage truss.
Or kit from LaValley/Middleton building supply.
Your in Maine?
They are right across in NH

Possible pole style IF it can look nice for the boss.

BTW: most of Maine is no where near N.H. From my Downeast ( think Bar Harbor area ) . N.H. is at least 3+ hours south and west . ???
Used to live just south of sloburb Nashua,NH  " Live Free or %$#@& ".

Maine has kits from Hammond Lumber. Has anyone built using a lumberyard "kit" ?

[Southside]

You would never know it's a pole barn from the exterior once finished, and 3 hours is not all that far, it used to be a 2.5 hour drive through two mountain passes to get to a Wal-Mart for us. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   What tools and assets do you have available to you? How much experience do you have building? Can you cut the lumber and poles off your place?


 First 2 bays before I added another bay. On the right end, next to my old hay barn, I have added a work bench with a RAS which is real handy.


 Final build with 3 bays. This is a pole bran I built for storing lumber that is a little over 12'X62' and about 12' high at the low end. Each bay is over 18' wide so I could stack 16' lumber in there. I have since added shelves on all interior walls. 

   The uprights are locust poles from my property and squared on the mill. The lumber includes all my initial practice sawing. Some is not real pretty but all is fit for purpose. Headers are 2"X12"X20'+. Trusses are 2X6 and on 16" centers. 

  Roofing is used corrugated metal from a barn salvage/tear down project in the next county. Total cost including the roofing is about $600 or less.

   I set my poles in the ground about 3' deep since it is not on a slab but it would not be hard to use some brackets or make them with short pieces of angle iron anchored into the slab.

   This provides pretty close to the amount of space you describe FWIW and for cost estimating. Good luck.

[newoodguy78]

If you're on a budget cedar shakes aren't a place to save money...labor for installation is the killer. I've put up 100s of square...they ain't fast

[mike_belben]

Tin is fastest wall. 

[Jack Lilley]

Use 6x6 hemlock from Parker Lumber in Bradford to frame the perimeter walls, space them 7'oc other then where the doors are. Place a 6x6 around the top of the wall, frame the roof with rafters, strap the walls with 2x4's, sheath with 1x12 pine board & batten from Parker as well, whatever for the roof. I built my barn this way, solid, inexpensive construction. I strapped my roof then osb and metal, works great.

[78NHTFY]

This is how I did it--Winter was coming, had to move fast. Ordered panelized construction of 28 x 28 (2x6 walls) structure.  4 week delivery time.  Meanwhile, excavated with my back hoe. Built concrete pad onto sand with 4' foundation walls.  Panels delivered by truck with crane (LaValley/Middleton). With one other guy, attached first floor wall panels on 1st day. Second day laid flooring joists (2 x 12) and underlayment.  Third day, 2nd flr delivered next day and all walls installed. 4th day installed all roof joist and finished 3/4 of roofing 5/8" sheets.  5th day finished roofing and nailed on all pre-primed fascia and drip edge.  6th day finished install of all roof shingles.  On the 7th day I rested, a LOT! ;).  Lots of options on how to do it, but if you're in a hurry this warrants consideration.  It was fully weatherproof in 6 days. It then took me 2 years to finish the inside..... :-[.  Good luck with your choice. (I did go with the 10' ceiling too).  Enjoy the pics.  All the best, Rob

 

 

 

[Bruno of NH]

I too have put on 100's of squares of wood shingles.
It's not fast or cheap as said above.
That's not far for LaValley/Middleton they go all over New England. 

[47sawdust]

Hey Rob,
What's that panel doin' stuck up in a tree? ;D
X3 on Lavalley they are what all lumberyards should be.

[Pulphook]

Some nice ideas. But, due to the ledge here poles are out. Unless you guys have some spare C4 or Semtex around for blasting the pole holes. ???
We did the shingling for the house, just takes time. Real pro construction, no.

[OntarioAl]

if you decide to use poles you can bolt the to your slab with metal brackets.
cheers
Al

[thecfarm]

I would put a good base under it and have the base up in the air. I have seen too many garages that water will come into the garage. Mine has to sink about 6 inches to have that problem. Wide doors too. I hear the smaller doors are cheaper line. Yea,until you rip a mirror off. We're saving money now!!!!

[btulloh]

Poles don't have to be set in holes.  Better to fasten them to to poured footers anyway.

[Bruno of NH]

Pin the ledge and pour footers for the poles to set on.
Built a beautiful house on Mascoma lake on the exposed ledge over looking the lake 20 years ago and added on to it twice.
Never moved a bit it's a cool looking place.
Built it for my uncle.

[Pulphook]

Poles don't have to be set in holes.  Better to fasten them to to poured footers anyway.

Yes, but those poured footers need holes. Now to blast into ledge .........???
We are talking some $$$$$. As example we had to blast out ledge to make a french drain around the rear of the place. If those of you mil people recall "fire in the hole" , you'll understand. Was big $$$$$ for the expert skill, for the hiring mats over the holes, for the liability insurance....you get it. Mandated to videotape ( then technology ) each blast.
Maybe she doesn't need that garage : : :.
So, stick or kit ?

[AZ_builder]

So is no house in your area on slab with footers? Or is that just part of the house cost, to blast?

[thecfarm]

We had to blast for our bedroom. With no close neighbors,we just let it fly. ;D Things was going good and that was the last corner. Than I heard the gonk,that did not sound good.   But did not surprise me any. I wanted the house in a certain spot. I got it in that certain spot. Even if I had him dig 10 feet over,would there be another gonk?? Cost money to have him dig more too. Might just as well call the Big Boys.  

[Old Greenhorn]

"If those of you mil people recall "fire in the hole" , you'll understand."

Thanks Pulp, this line brought back a memory I had nearly forgotten. When we bought the house we now live in, I had taken a day off work to get a little organized the first week we were here. I didn't know any neighbors except for one who wanted to tear my head off at the time (that's another fun story). Anyway, I was out in the garage storing stuff under a workbench and poking around in the new place and I heard somebody holler "FIRE IN THE HOLE!!" across the road, now this is rural here, but semi-residential, and it took a few seconds for me to realize what I had heard, (I said to myself "Did he just say...?") and as I began to straighten up, that charge went off and I flinched pretty hard when the ground shook, so hard that I whacked the back of my head on the bottom of the bench and nearly knocked myself out. Turns out they were blasting away ledge to create the drop road to go from one step down the the next for a skid road. Given that my new relationship of 3 days with this neighbor (he was the one that wanted to remove my head) was not blossoming yet, I decided to not go over and see what they were doing.  ;D
Ironically, I am on that road just about everyday now and maintain it for the new owner, 30 years later.
Thanks for the memory.

[newoodguy78]

If you want fast like Rob and Bruno said go with a kit. As a builder I prefer stick built, but don't care for customers with the mind set that it will be as fast as a kit. It won't. Stick built allows you to adapt to various unforeseen site conditions I.e- out of square foundations and such, it happens. 
Just my opinion but as long as you can deal with the water coming across the top of ledge and attach to it properly there's  nothing more stable to build off, just try moving it  :D. I have seen pole buildings put on ledge with success.
You might want to take a look at the building Jeff put up I can't remember what thread it's in but I'm sure someone can point you in that direction.
I have heard decent things about lavalley for what it's worth 

[snowstorm]

so why is a pole type garage cheaper if you are going to have a concrete floor?? i have done the ground work on 2 pole barns. the first was a airplane hangar. we set used light poles. it was a pain getting them straight square and plum. after it was built he poured a floor in it. the other was a barn for a dr. for his horses cows sheep. that one had to have interior posts for each stall. after the pad was graveled leveled then dig for each post. put a concrete round pad in the hole then 6x6 pt. and after all this he want a gravel floor. i tried to get him to pour concrete floor. i told him he was gona get tired of shoveling cow pop off that dirt floor. it looked nice when it was done. 2 yrs later he sold the place and moved

[btulloh]

The real name is "post-framed building".  Doesn't have to use round poles unless that's what you have or what you want.  6x6's or even 4'x6's work well.  Less material, less labor.

[OntarioAl]

pulphook
You are going to pour a slab.
Up here we pour the slab and footers as one.
Creates a "floating slab" to combat frost heaving
Then erect the structure of your choice
cheers
Al
 

[newoodguy78]

so why is a pole type garage cheaper if you are going to have a concrete floor?? i have done the ground work on 2 pole barns. the first was a airplane hangar. we set used light poles. it was a pain getting them straight square and plum. after it was built he poured a floor in it. the other was a barn for a dr. for his horses cows

sheep. that one had to have interior posts for each stall. after the pad was graveled leveled then dig for each post. put a concrete round pad in the hole then 6x6 pt. and after all this he want a gravel floor. i tried to get him to pour concrete floor. i told him he was gona get tired of shoveling cow pop off that dirt floor. it looked nice when it was done. 2 yrs later he sold the place and moved

The cost of digging the hole and pouring footings and frost walls to build off of is what the difference in cost is 

I do believe footings and walls are better in the northeast but definitely add cost

[Southside]

Can't bring in an excavator with a hammer to demo out the holes?

[WV Sawmiller]

OG,

   Yeah brings back memories for me of a project on a gold and copper mine in the Gobi desert. I used to eat supper with our drill and blast foreman - an Aussie. I asked him how he learned his trade and he said as teenagers he and his buddies buddies would go down tot he local dump and blow up old cars and such. he talked about cutting the lids off barrels with explosives being faster and easier than with a grinder. He talked about low explosive too. Said he laid a pipeline through town with it and never broke a window pane. He said they'd drill and make a space for the rock to fall in for first blast. Said he could blow multiples by timing so each blast created a cavity for the next one. He'd get real excited talking about it. Australia must be a great place to grow up in.

Snowstorm,

   My FIL said to drill the holes for the poles and square and plumb it with the framing you nail to it. He said let it float it will square itself up as you nail the framing and I have done this a few times and he was right. Every piece you nail makes it stronger and straighter if you are doing it right. After it is in the air and square and plumb then you concrete or tamp the soil around the posts.

btulloh,

   Thanks for the proper name. Makes sense. Looks simple to me if you already have the slab to just drill and bolt anchors into the floor. I have often seen homemade ones made of angle iron used for that purpose. 

[78NHTFY]

47sawdust--I dunno, a panel in the tree is worth two in the bush? :D  Thought you would ask why my truck is not in my nice 2 car garage but in the driveway covered in snow....I'll tell ya why: 'cause my side is chock full of good stuff  crap that I need to dispose of but cannot manage.  Kinda like sawdust fever, but in a bad way... >:(.  I'll have another good talking to him about it when I next see him in the mirror... .  All the best, Rob.    

[Don P]

Yup, pin the concrete foundation to the ledge and attach the post to the slab. The reason people put the post in a hole is an attempt to either sprout another tree or to pick up bracing and uplift resistance from mud. Use your walls to brace the frame whether it is sticks or posts or timbers. Bolt it to the concrete to resist uplift. The ledge is simply a bonus, you don't have to dig down to frost depth to avoid heaving, the rock is already down there providing the best footing in the world. A short stemwall would get the wood up out of the dirt. I can stick frame and tilt up walls about as fast as standing poles and girting in place but the post frame builders who do it for a living can flat out fly. 

[mike_belben]

Some nice ideas. But, due to the ledge here poles are out. 

They can sit on galvanized chairs and be redheaded into the slab with a hilti very easily.  Maybe a little bit of drill/grinder/chisel work to level the slab where the chairs sit but no deal breaker and still cheap.  

Poles don't have to be set in holes.  Better to fasten them to to poured footers anyway.

That is true IF your roof uses full cross ties in the bottom third of the rafters to keep the walls from spreading under snow load. 



The really real hillbilly pole barn in my region is a hayfield where a forest was cleared.  The white oaks or locust [rare now] or ERC that are straight enough to build but too small to sell to the mill or saw out are kept for poles.  The sapwood is hatcheted off and theyre sunk into the clay until you hit slab. A shovel of gravel then a few trash shingles are thrown in the hole to help seal the endgrain with asphalt and slow the rotting.  Here its a foot or 4 to sandstone or limestone ledge. 

Then the barn is framed up with only collar ties so that a 4th tier of round bale can fit under the roof in the slightly vaulted center bay. We have no snow load to speak of so pitches are shallow.  The timber poles set in ground are rigid enough vertically to withstand outward pressure of the rafters and not spread appreciably.  A back wall and front top plate is all that resists flattening the roof.  The tractor usually lives in the doorway so its okay to have a normal door height with clear span interior.   In my region wind is what takes a barn down.  
Anyhow, cutting your own tree poles is what makes a pole barn economical.  Buying posts may be different.  



I also see laminated posts pretty frequently.  3 sandwiched 2x4s or 2x6s where only the center piece goes into the dirt and is a pressure treated 2x maybe 4ft long with the rest being untreated to save $$.  When the center treated board rots you cut the nails with a sawzall and replace only that insert.  I havent formed an opinion on this system or priced it out vs more conventional methods. 



  For stick frame, a SYP 2x6 costs about a dollar more than a 2x4 at my local ace but the quality, strength and straightness are much better in a 2x6.  You can go up to 2x6 and jump to 24" OC spacing to get more rigidity, more insulation and less nails and measuring for sheathing... More strength for same or less money.  As long as you dont plan on fiberglass roll or batt insulation anyway.  

[Don P]

Poles don't have to be set in holes.  Better to fasten them to to poured footers anyway.

A couple of structural corrections Mike. The "rafter ties" in the lower third of roof height are needed to keep the walls from spreading either way, whether the poles are in the ground or on it. The way to eliminate them is to use a structural ridge beam, that isn't a ridge board but a big honking beam, there was a picture of one earlier in the thread.
The built up treated posts do run all the plies into the ground, not just one. There is an offset splice lap in the plies above ground where each ply then becomes untreated. 

[Pulphook]

OK OK I'm not a builder...a virgin having built and remodeled only two times.
1. How do you "pin" ?
2. What is a "footer" ?
3. Why pole construction as opposed to other standard methods ?
Thx.

[newoodguy78]

Pin= attach to something in this case ledge, usually done by drilling and epoxying in bolts to connect steel to which in turn you connect to your pole 

Footer/footing=what the concrete walls sit on usually 2 1/2-3 times as wide as wall is thick. Absolute lowest point of structure
Why pole construction over footing/poured concrete wall to build off of?  To save money

[doc henderson]

could not find the "pin" comment (for context) but probably just a nail or fastener.  footer is a footing.  mass footing or stem wall style footing.  so he dug a trench and poured the slab and let concrete go into the trench to go below grade below frost depth.  or sometime a mass footing is only 8 inches deep but 2 feet wide.  Pole buildings use less/cheaper materials.  around here people are always wanting free telephone poles to build with.  the poles can be every 8 feet or so, with 2x4s going horizontal every 4 feet to fasten corrugated steel siding.  trussed roof with purlins and corrugated roofing.check your local code re footings.  best to add rebar reinforcement.

[Mike W]

Pulphook,

1. is in reference to anchoring the slab to the foundation walls, via drilling into the walls and inserting dowels or rebar to be encased with the slab being placed, this anchors the slab to the walls to prevent heaving or settling of the slab separate from the walls

2. footer (footing) is typically a horizontal section of concrete which to "bear" the foundation wall or column onto which disperses the load over a wider bearing point against the soil, typically placed below the regions frost line to prevent heaving and settling with seasonal changes, in times past, large rocks were buried to bear the posts onto in lieu of concrete.

3.  pole barn framing techniques are utilized to maximize free span clear areas and most are not fully enclosed or partially enclosed for the most part.  it allows a lot of flexibility to finish out the "under roof" area without the need of additional bearing walls to support the roof.  post and beam or timber frame is a couple examples of this form of framing.  conventional framing relies on foundation bearing around the entire perimeter as well as some spot bearing points required with bearing walls to support large spanned areas.  pole barn construction typically is more cost effective to cover large areas with little ground/foundation work in comparison to conventional framing.

this answer some of your questions?  

Mike 

[Mike W]

Ok,

what Doc and newoodguy just posted while my slow fingers were still typing.... :D

[mike_belben]

Don- not arguing with you or saying what i mentioned is right, but i have seen both in existence with my own eyes a few times. Craigslist has put me on a lot of foreign properties and i am one to note details and ask questions just to fill my curiousity.  Granted i took the persons word that the lam beam had just the middle 2x going into the dirt as i couldnt really tell, but for certain i have stood in a few timber pole hay sheds with only collar ties and no noticeable spread.  Not new ones either. 


In fact i have been in many hillbilly structures that were closer to tree forts than anything resembling a conventional home.  Code enforcement? We cant even get the drug dealing and burglary laws enforced out here.  

[Southside]

Probably the cheapest way in the end is to do like that old Yooper song did - listen to the radio for a garage sale and call them so you can "buy that garage", just tell them they can "keep that stuff" that is in there, you don't want it.  That garage "gonna make a good wood shed out to my camp".  :D  

[Pulphook]

Guess I have built a pole structure in 2001...without knowing what the H to call it. The woodshed for 5+ cords was built using 6 spruce ~ 6"-10" DBH poles" attached to cinderblocks with brackets. The front is open, the sides and rear semi open with mill 2" cut offs. The floor is pallets. Fiberglass 2x14 corregated panels for the roof.
It has been solid except for a couple of blowdowns on the roof.
Still does not seem like a stable structure even tho it stands and does the job. Whatya know. 8)