Drying techniques...

[Paschale]

Just a quick question...

When stacking wood to air dry, how thick should the stickers be?  

Thanks...

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Dan,

Just a quick answer!!!! :D

I use 1/2 x 1/2 inch untreated stickers.
Cover the stack to keep out the light too.  Tarp or corrugated iron etc.
Cheers,
Charlie.

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Dan,

I forgot to say, its worth sealing the ends of the timber with paint, or something like Anchorseal, to prevent checking.
Cheers,
Charlie.

[Tom]

I use 1" stickers and place them as close to the end of the board as I can (within 3") and at 16" intervals, making sure that they line up with the sticker below it.  Stickers should form a column so that the weight goes to the ground and not to a board within the stack.  Keeping the sticks close to the end keeps the end from drying too quickly and helps to curtail end splits.

The Stack should be covered with something flat (plywood, pole barn, etc.) that allows a free flow of air but keeps the elements out.  Air drying requires a good air exchange. If you choose to use a Tarp, don't let it droop over the sides of the stack.  Use it as a tent and keep it well away from the wood because it could cause stagnant air which creates a "green house".

The smaller the stickers, the slower the drying.  I have experimented drying real thin stuff with thin stickers.  It works better.

Your stacks should not be too wide.  The reason is, again, air flow.  I try to keep most of mine at 4' but have learned not to build a stack wider than 8'.    Those little tunnels made by the stickers are hard to purge the air from if the stack is too wide.

[Kevin_H.]

When I need sticks I have the lumber store rip cdx plywood into 4' x 4' sheets, I then stand them up on my orange machine and use the setworks at 3/4". Makes fast work and I get a bunch out of just a couple of sheets, Been doing this over a year and haven't had any problem with stain. ;D
When I custom saw, I give this advise to my customers and offer to cut their sticks for free if they supply the cdx.

[Paschale]

Thanks for the replies guys...

I've got two options for the location of the wood that I'll be drying.  1. inside a barn 2. outdoors, which I can cover to keep the rain off.  What do you guys think is best?

Thanks ahead of time...

Dan M.

PS  Kiwi Charlie:  I've got some Anchorseal all ready to go--thanks for the advice!

PPS  I'm not sure what cdx stands for--maybe I'm just a bit daft, but can someone help me out?

[Haytrader]

CDX is plywood. C grade on one side. D grade on the other. X stands for exterior.

[Tom]

Airflow is the primary concerrn.  If your barn has a good air exchange or you help it with fans then the barn sounds like the best place.  If the air doesn't move  in the barn, put the wood outside and get it high enough off of the ground that it doesn't capture ground moisture. 12" or better.

If you feel really industrious, put it outside for 8 to 10 weeks to get rid of the bulk of the water and restack it inside the barn to finisn drying it

[SawBilly]

I cut up ugly trees, shorts and the mess ups into 1 inch boards, then flip them all sidways and cut 1 inch french fries. Cut them all to length with a chain saw and criss cross stack them for few days and they are plenty dry...assuming no rain of course.I have been also plaining 2 sides to 3/4 inch for uniformity.

Another thing I have been working on, and would like some feed back, is building a set of forms. 3/4 inch stickers=1/2 form with a rope on it. Place the forms on the top layer, places stickers between forms...make a tight fit all stickers butted up to forms, put a new layer of lumber on top, then pull out the forms and place on top of the new layer, new stickers, new layer ect...this would allow more uniformity of sticker placement, and also hold the stickers while you accidently drag your new layer across the top. when stack is done and covered, the forms would come out and not remain in the stack.

It seams like a real simple concept, but I have never heard of anyone doing it, just people complaining on making sure all the stickers line up over each other.

Any comments?...preferably related to the topic

[Tom]

There are forms for stacking wood.  The place where I cut the cypress had one for stacking in preparation for the kiln.  It is a  steel bed with rails every 16 inches.  Lined up with the rails on the bed are vertical pieces of 1 1/2" or 2" channel that form a back wall and the tops of them are tied together as well as braces to the ends.  If stickers are placed on a deck of wood with the ends in this channel iron then the stickers will be lined up.  a forklift removes the stack when it is built and places it on a kiln car or stacks it in a drying shed.

Lord knows I don't want to get off subject :

Many of us just stack by "eye" and that requires paying attention.  You'd be surprised at how many "experienced" people haphazardly throw stickers down with no concern with lining them up. :-/   It always bears mentioning when your audience may be new to air'drying.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Speaking of hot air, : At the location we are diving, there is a place that has a bunch of foam panels with aluminum or vinyl on both surfaces, I guess for free standing wall sections, like post and beam???  Would these be good for building a solar kiln? They must be 6-8 inches thick and maybe 8 feet high.

[Don P]

Yup, nab em if the price is right 8). Save them for the dh unit when you outgrow the solar one.
One problem I've had stickering by eye that the sticker form solves is that when you go to put one handmade pile atop another the sticker spacing is different so there is no correct place to put bolsters without bending the wood in one pile or another :(. Misplaced bolsters, the 4x or 6x supports under and between the stacks has ruined as much lumber in my experience as misplaced stickers a bolster should be at each sticker location if its a long term pile...seems we're always in a hurry and its just 2 pieces of dunnage under a temporary pile that will get corrected when we get round tuit :.

Here's another, method of drying we talked about recently, not suggesting it. Just came across the picture and figured I'd post it FYI.

Endracking

[woodbeard]

howdy all, been reading these posts for a while now, and decided I'd finally pitch in my 2 cents for whatever they're worth these days. Mostly, I wanted to share my experience with drying wood in barns: BUGS....Yecch!! >:(  They may not be a problem in a newer structure, but mine is full of 'em, and so too is 2000bf of various hardwoods stacked and stickered in it. I'm currently working on another shed just for drying and storing wood, and might try restacking this lumber in it and cranking up the reddy heater for a while to kill the little buggers. Maybe I can salvage some and offer it on ebay as "wormy" ;D I live in Tennessee, and a lot of folks use tobacco sticks as stickers here. (or is it the other way around? hmm..)
George.

[Noble_Ma]

Speaking of bugs in the wood pile, is there anything to treat the logs with to prevent the little buggers from digging in?

[woodbeard]

Tim-Bor, which is usually available from insecticide dealers is supposed to be very effective. It is mostly borax, and not toxic to humans or pets, but will kill termites, powder post beetles and other wood infesting critters,as well as prevent infestation. Havent tried it yet, but seriously considering it!
Good Luck,
George

[Steve]

I use Orthochlor primarily for the powder post beetles that can smell fresh cut Mango from miles away I'm sure. I give one application as it comes off the mill and a year later there are almost no bug holes. Orthochlor is what the Department of Ag here recommends.
The last Mango I milled had termites in the stump. When taking down the mill, after it had been setup for three weeks max, I pulled up a brand new HI Bor treated 2x10 that I use with my setup sometimes and it was riddled with termites. Had been laying on the ground three weeks at the most!
The beetles are the hardest part of dealing with Mango, in that you can lose good lumber to the little devils-fast. Before when the islands had no powder post beetles, mosquitos or fruit flies, then we're talking paradise. The way it is now, we have to deal with every new wayward species that stumbles onto this island. It is the Coqui from  the Carribean  at the moment. Thousands of dime sized loudspeakers that go all night!

Steve

Follow label instructions

[Don P]

Here's an interesting read

http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/rot.html

We've used the ag chemical solubor to make cheap borate solution...all the water based products are 98% DOT, this is just anothe cheap way to make homebrew Tim-Bor. The glycols described in the article improve penetration. Ethylene glycol is available at some paint stores. The borate/glycol mix is the same as Boracare.
I'm always slow to treat anything I might be machining later.

While reading recently I kept coming across the fact that powderpost beetles and many other insects infest wood to eat the stored starch inside the cells (aside, starch and cellulose are both glucose, starch is glucose molecules joined straight on, cellulose is every other molecule flipped, very close cousins). Anyway, the blighters are after the starch...starch is water soluble, I've heard of the old timers ponding and even sinking timbers for some time before using them...were they onto something, I don't know, I'm just asking?

[Bro. Noble]

There is an infection (fomus anosis) that is a problem in plantation pines in the south.  The spores enter freshly cut stumps, get in the root system and spread to living trees through root contact.  The prescribedpreventative is to put a boron solution on the freshly cut stump.  I got enough boron at a bulk fertilizer plant (they use it in small amounts on alfalfa) to last a lifetime for a few dollars.  It is in a dry form and I mix a cupful with a gallon of water when I need some.
I don't know if this would work for insects or not.

Noble

[Don P]

That sounds like Solubor, didn't know they used it on alfalfa. Tomato and pepper growers use it also. The rate for mixing it as Tim-bor is 1 lb/gal of water, thats alot stiffer than your mix. It kills bugs, fungi, and is a fire retardant.
It blends, it bakes, it juliennes...oh maybe that was something else.
I think  I was on the US Borax website once and saw all the products listed and described.

[Paschale]

I've seen here and read from other sources that hardwood stickers are best.  Kevin H seems to have had luck using cdx plywood, and obviously this would be a more economical solution.  Pricing hardwood yesterday, I realized that the wood that I was looking through was premium, furniture grade oak, which really probably wouldn't be needed for stickers.  At the same time, I'm unaware whether finding lower grade hardwood is really very easy.  What do most of you do to solve the problem of finding reasonably priced stickers that do the job but don't put a major dent in the pocketbook?  I have access to Johnson's Workbench in Grand Rapids and Charlotte, MI--I think I'll call them up on Monday and see if they have any lower grade lumber.  Also, many people have suggested that white oak is the wood of choice--any other opinions on this?  I like the idea of cdx myself! :-)

[Bro. Noble]

When we get low on stickers, we separate any 1x1's off of the edger that have 4' of good wood and then send them to the cutoff saw and endtrimm them.

Noble

[Frank_Pender]

For myself iI make my 1 x 1's out of Douglas fir that is sawn from most any 1" trimmings off of my Mobile Dimension Sawmill.  This usually consists of first or last trims from a log, as long as the trim will be 54".    The 54" is the width of the palets I use for the kiln dollies.  The dollies are 54" wide and fit very nicely into the kiln trailer.  I make the 1 x 1's in my woodworking shop on the tablesaw, when we are having adverse weather, cold, wet or hot.

[Noble_Ma]

I have a question that's kind of on/off subject.  I don't think you guys will mind ................ right!  I have been air drying my lumber in an open shed structure like a carport.  Will it be OK to hang tarps on the sides during the winter months to keep the snow and ice off the piles?  I've left the gable ends open except for braces so there will still be some air flow.  The wind blows a lot during the winter here in the Northeast and can build snow drifts  6 or 8 feet in no time.

Noble

[aTallahassean]

I'm interested in the home made Boracare brew... why would anyone use the ethylene      glycol instead of the polyethylelne glycol and is the Sierra brand antifreeze ok... I'd like to get specific quantities and instructions if I use the Sierra brand to make my own stuff to spray on the underside of the wood under my home crawlspace to get rid of and prevent future fungus and whatever... and what kind of dye can I put in it to know the coverage is there without messing up the formula?

Here is the recipe I found on this site, and what I am refering to, but I don't like the poisonous glycol designated below, cause of my pets, and after all, it will be hard not to breathe some of the vapors when applying it, right?

aTallahassean
http://monalisaphoto.com/mona


« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2003, 08:25:02 PM »    
stump_jumper, I didn't invent this stuff but I did a fair amount of research coming up with the recipes.  Spraying all the wood on the outside of my house would have cost me a small fortune if I had to buy all the stuff ready made.  I let all the wood air dry and cut it before applying the homemade boracare.  Then I let it sit awhile on the house before applying the waterproofing. 

This will not water proof the wood but will keep bugs out and is commenly used on log homes,  (or so I am told) homemade wo
od preserative,  This is equivalent to Bora-Care® diluted with an equal volume of glycol to make it fluid enough to use handily;
1 Gallon glycol antifreeze, 4 1/2 pounds borax, 3 1/2 pounds boric acid.
To make a stable solution you mix the ingredients and heat till boiling gently. Boil off water until a candy termometer shows 260°F. This removes most of the water of crystallization in the borax. This solution is stable at 40°F and has a borate content of 26%. This is equivalent to Bora-Care® at about $90/gal. for the concentrate which makes 2 Gallons. 

[DanG]

Hi Tallahassean.  I'm a neighbor of yours, over here in Gadsden County.   Thanks for bringing this subject back to the top.  I'm about to start building a new house, and would like to squirt something on it to keep the bugs out.

BTW, do you always dress like that to do your grocery shopping? ;D :D