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Author Topic: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie  (Read 1252 times)

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Online reelman65

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TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« on: April 16, 2018, 12:12:05 PM »
I am just learning about TSI. I have engaged a forester to put together a plan. I will get it in a few more Months. 

I am dying to get started, but I know there are a lot of variables etc.

But i was wondering if there were any absolutes.

ex:
Should one always removes vines from desirable species?

Should you always remove an undesirable species that is directly competing with a desirable tree of the same size etc?

Any others?

thanks for the great resource!
thanks
Bruce
75 Acres of hardwoods that i want to try to optimize for HW growth, health and habitat. Also interested in creating a few small stands of fruit/nut trees and sample of different native species

Offline mike_belben

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 03:09:56 PM »
I always chop vines.  I dont always dig them up or pull em out but always cut them back to give the tree an advantage and make the vine start over.

If a keep tree is near a skidder trail, a junk tree is nice to keep logs from rubbing the keeper.  Typically i will fell the cull tree but leave a 2 foot tall bumper stump to pivot logs off of. 

A decent rule of thumb is that a 10" keeper tree needs about a 10ft clear radius around it.  If youve got two keepers side by side its okay to treat them as one.   

You should take some time to learn all the species you have and which are shade tolerant vs which are not.  Itll help you decide what to keep or cull

Download the 100page landowner guide on tbe resources page of tennessee timber consultants.  Its exceptionally good.
Revelation 3:20

Online reelman65

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 04:29:52 PM »
Great info, thanks Mike. I really like the skidder bumper idea. also good to keep the haycutter from bumping keepers.
Definitely studying the timber doc
75 Acres of hardwoods that i want to try to optimize for HW growth, health and habitat. Also interested in creating a few small stands of fruit/nut trees and sample of different native species

Offline mike_belben

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 07:26:37 PM »
If you are really itching to go "do something" but dont really know what youre doing yet.. Pop some one hand garden pruning shears in your back pocket, hose down in DEET and go for a hike out back.    I like snipping the bushy side branches off little sapplings to turn them into straight baby poles, and also trying to notice the little details like what the deer do and dont eat.  Its not critical work but it will help train your brain to see what has good potential and what doesnt, and what species you will be fighting the deer off of. 

For instance, deer dont bother my poplar at all.  I dont need to do anything but get them good light.   But theyll tear up the oak seedlings so i need to consider light and making brush pile protection, and providing nearby alternative browse.   In my case its hingecutting of gum, sourwood and red maple, none of which i want to grow.  Theyre junk to me, but if i cull those it ensures increased oak mortality.  So instead i place them on the ground -still alive- as deer feed by design. 


When you first get started, leave the chainsaw at home until you can look at every sappling you have, without leaves, and name its species.  This will reduce the scope of your mistakes dramatically.  When you can identify all of it, then go out with the gas can, bar oil and files and wack away.   

Dont feel pressured to do every inch of your place the first year.  There is nothing wrong with working little focus patches, then watching the response pattern to see if youre meeting your goals.   If youre in hardwoods, familiarize yourself with shelterwood and seed trees.  Also note that small clearings favor low grade shade tolerant species and tend to produce poor hardwoods.  Oak and hickory like bigger clearings.  Fields that are abandoned all at once to succeed back into forests for instance, they produce the straightest hardwoods i have observed.  Also, trees down in the bottom of a ravine will typically grow to nearly the same height as those on the top of it.. That might mean an extra 30ft on a bottomland tree.   So look at your topography and keep that in mind when making selections. You can get an extra pair of sawlogs out of the one in the hollar vs the one above it. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline Southside logger

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 08:15:47 PM »
I have engaged a forester to put together a plan


Gosh - you are dedicated to this for sure.  I mean, just hiring one would show sincerity, but planning to marry one..... :D:D:D
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Online reelman65

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 09:09:01 PM »
Haha, I'm already taken.  :D
75 Acres of hardwoods that i want to try to optimize for HW growth, health and habitat. Also interested in creating a few small stands of fruit/nut trees and sample of different native species

Offline WDH

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 09:30:47 PM »
I "engaged" a Forester back in 1976.  Met her in Forestry School :).  We are still going....

Hack-n-squirt is an effective tool for cleaning up hardwood and selecting your crop trees. 
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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 10:28:30 PM »
do y'all fight over the sawmill controls?   :)
75 Acres of hardwoods that i want to try to optimize for HW growth, health and habitat. Also interested in creating a few small stands of fruit/nut trees and sample of different native species

Online Don P

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 10:35:01 PM »
Nobody will mind if you take out non native invasives if your forester engagement has stalled.

Online reelman65

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 10:58:44 PM »
If you are really itching to go "do something" but dont really know what youre doing yet.. Pop some one hand garden pruning shears in your back pocket, hose down in DEET and go for a hike out back.    I like snipping the bushy side branches off little sapplings to turn them into straight baby poles, and also trying to notice the little details like what the deer do and dont eat.  Its not critical work but it will help train your brain to see what has good potential and what doesnt, and what species you will be fighting the deer off of.  

For instance, deer dont bother my poplar at all.  I dont need to do anything but get them good light.   But theyll tear up the oak seedlings so i need to consider light and making brush pile protection, and providing nearby alternative browse.   In my case its hingecutting of gum, sourwood and red maple, none of which i want to grow.  Theyre junk to me, but if i cull those it ensures increased oak mortality.  So instead i place them on the ground -still alive- as deer feed by design.  


When you first get started, leave the chainsaw at home until you can look at every sappling you have, without leaves, and name its species.  This will reduce the scope of your mistakes dramatically.  When you can identify all of it, then go out with the gas can, bar oil and files and wack away.  

Dont feel pressured to do every inch of your place the first year.  There is nothing wrong with working little focus patches, then watching the response pattern to see if youre meeting your goals.   If youre in hardwoods, familiarize yourself with shelterwood and seed trees.  Also note that small clearings favor low grade shade tolerant species and tend to produce poor hardwoods.  Oak and hickory like bigger clearings.  Fields that are abandoned all at once to succeed back into forests for instance, they produce the straightest hardwoods i have observed.  Also, trees down in the bottom of a ravine will typically grow to nearly the same height as those on the top of it.. That might mean an extra 30ft on a bottomland tree.   So look at your topography and keep that in mind when making selections. You can get an extra pair of sawlogs out of the one in the hollar vs the one above it.
Thanks Mike, that's just the kind of info i was looking for. 
75 Acres of hardwoods that i want to try to optimize for HW growth, health and habitat. Also interested in creating a few small stands of fruit/nut trees and sample of different native species

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 09:08:13 AM »
Pop some one hand garden pruning shears in your back pocket, hose down in DEET and go for a hike out back.    I like snipping the bushy side branches off little sapplings to turn them into straight baby poles. 

When you first get started, leave the chainsaw at home until you can look at every sappling you have, without leaves, and name its species.  This will reduce the scope of your mistakes dramatically.  
I agree with Mike, especially the statements above.  
You can always cut later, but it sure takes a lot of time to put trees back.  I prefer to select keepers with a can of spray paint in my hand instead of a saw.  Let's me come back and take a second look.  
A good pole saw to limb a little higher is also a good start.  Also a good time to mark any trails you want to make, clear fencelines, and put up signage if you prefer.
One caution, if you have Oak Wilt in your area, leave the Oaks alone until winter.  I try not to make any open wounds in keeper Oaks from March-April to November, though I'm more conservative than most.  But now until July is the worst time for infection.
Beyond that, no brainer options depend on your goals.  Are you managing for wildlife, timber value, aesthetics...  Can be lots of different actions depending on the goals...
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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 01:06:41 PM »
TKehl.
I like the idea of marking first, gives me time to think about it, and also get a second opinion.

as far as goals. I didn't want to get that deep. i have a detailed mgmnt plan on the way. I was just looking understand if there are a few TSI "constaints" that could always apply.

thanks
75 Acres of hardwoods that i want to try to optimize for HW growth, health and habitat. Also interested in creating a few small stands of fruit/nut trees and sample of different native species

Offline mike_belben

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 01:54:50 PM »
Im not a forestor and maybe im wrong, but i have come to believe these things to be basic truths that will apply to any forest.  


1. Nature endeavors to overseed.

2. Overseeding creates overshading and slows the growth rate of all species.  

3. Selecting the most desireable species for your purpose, and culling those that consume resources but will not produce value in accordance with your design will focus more resources to your selected growers.

3A. (Thats not to say this is good for other ecosystems that im largely ignorant of.)

4.  Its easier to cull a tree on your 15th trip out than to uncull it from your first trip.  The more walks you take and more you study, the better your decisions will be. 
Revelation 3:20

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 02:42:54 PM »
Large vines are easy to control with basal bark spraying.  just spray the lowest foot or so.  Especially handy with poison ivy.

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2018, 12:16:45 PM »
TKehl.
as far as goals. I didn't want to get that deep. i have a detailed mgmnt plan on the way. I was just looking understand if there are a few TSI "constaints" that could always apply.

thanks
I think you really need a goal.
Are you doing this first and foremost for wildlife or first and foremost for timber production.
2 totally different goals, not exclusive all the time but you'll need to know what is most important.
If your having a Forester draw up a plan it will be different than if a wildlife professional did it. Ask the Forseter what his objectives are, they maybe different than yours.
I manage for wildlife 1st. I leave trees with holes in them. And some are big maples that any forester looking at timber production would remove PDQ as they are good for firewood only and always will be.
List your top 3 objectives and then manage to those objectives in the order you list.

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2018, 12:36:48 PM »
TKehl.
as far as goals. I didn't want to get that deep. i have a detailed mgmnt plan on the way. I was just looking understand if there are a few TSI "constaints" that could always apply.

thanks
I think you really need a goal.
Are you doing this first and foremost for wildlife or first and foremost for timber production.
2 totally different goals, not exclusive all the time but you'll need to know what is most important.
If your having a Forester draw up a plan it will be different than if a wildlife professional did it. Ask the Forseter what his objectives are, they maybe different than yours.
I manage for wildlife 1st. I leave trees with holes in them. And some are big maples that any forester looking at timber production would remove PDQ as they are good for firewood only and always will be.
List your top 3 objectives and then manage to those objectives in the order you list.
I have goals. I completed a goals matrix with weighted scoring and gave it to the forester that i am getting the management plan from. The purpose of this post was to see if there were any "universal truths" of TSI that i could get a head start on while my management plan is being worked on.
75 Acres of hardwoods that i want to try to optimize for HW growth, health and habitat. Also interested in creating a few small stands of fruit/nut trees and sample of different native species

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2018, 01:40:57 PM »
The one no brainer for any TSI no matter the goals is remove invasives.

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Re: TSI no-brainer moves for newbie
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2018, 02:42:00 PM »
thanks!, that's the kind of direction i was hoping for
75 Acres of hardwoods that i want to try to optimize for HW growth, health and habitat. Also interested in creating a few small stands of fruit/nut trees and sample of different native species


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