WOOD GARAGE FLOOR

RAYGYVER · October 24, 2018, 03:15:15 PM

Quote from: Crusarius on October 24, 2018, 02:59:05 PM
The other thing I was wondering is if the plastic held the board above the floor or if they machine the bottom of the board to keep it flat to the floor. I can see benefits to both ways. for my application I would want it tight to the floor for the radiant heat transfer.

There are plenty of plastic and alum extrusions available online. The problem is how it will function with the groove. This basically goes back to the T&G concept, that allows the whole floor to move without the cupping etc. I think in my case, with much larger boards, the sleepers and shiplap may suffice. The sleepers will move too...

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 07:21:32 AM

I've got the truck and trailer hooked up. Got all my gear. Heading to get some logs after work today. My truck has been giving me fits, so towing with the wife's tahoe...anybody know how many pounds per cubic foot of ash? The trailer is rated for I think 5-6000 lbs. 16' car trailer. I don't want to overload it or the tahoe...

edit: here is a good source for densities:

Wood Species - Moisture Content and Weight

EDIT:
This one allows you to build your own schedule based on species and custom dimensions:
Timber and Lumber Calculators at WOODWEB

Ruffgear · October 25, 2018, 07:45:52 AM

Looks like a cool concept, but I'm not sold just yet. What happens when you get a twisting board? Or when the plastic gets brittle?
Load her til she squats, tis what I do😁

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 08:01:13 AM

Quote from: Ruffgear on October 25, 2018, 07:45:52 AM
Looks like a cool concept, but I'm not sold just yet. What happens when you get a twisting board? Or when the plastic gets brittle?
Load her til she squats, tis what I do😁

Ruffgear, I am with ya. Mechanically its a good concept. The only bad thing I can think of is the plastic getting brittle with age and the cost!! Holy cow its triple what a typical floor costs from reading the comments section at the bottom of the youtube page.
Replacing a warped board would be easy with this system.

Crusarius · October 25, 2018, 08:32:12 AM

Plastic under the floor probably hold up just fine. its typically the UV from the sun that kills it. It may get brittle over time. But, how often are you planning on pulling it up and putting it back down.

The new technology in plastics makes them an extremely suitable replacement for alot of steel components. The two best places I can think of are fuel lines and brake lines. Would be great to finally have the two most important components on your car not rot out before the car does.

btulloh · October 25, 2018, 08:39:32 AM

Check out the tool box on the left side of the forum. All the calculators you need.

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 08:41:58 AM

Very true. Plastics aren't what they used to be...they have improved greatly.

I'm still not 100% on the final design, I considered splines, but I cannot replace a board in the middle of the floor with splines.

Well...I can do this in 10' x 10' squares. I can build a frame that the floor boards sit inside of.....options just opened up...im going straight to the CAD!!!

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 08:43:25 AM

Quote from: btulloh on October 25, 2018, 08:39:32 AM
Check out the tool box on the left side of the forum. All the calculators you need.

Well....I'll be danged. Guess being a newbie I just hadn't seen that yet! Thanks!

Southside · October 25, 2018, 09:06:54 AM

Not having a tongue and groove I suspect fine dirt will get trapped between that new flooring at the joints. Completely sealed or not the lack of a relief groove on the bottom with that wide of a board is going to add up to a problem in a floor system. Neat idea, but then again so was the Pinto.

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 09:36:52 AM

Quote from: Southside logger on October 25, 2018, 09:06:54 AM
Not having a tongue and groove I suspect fine dirt will get trapped between that new flooring at the joints. Completely sealed or not the lack of a relief groove on the bottom with that wide of a board is going to add up to a problem in a floor system. Neat idea, but then again so was the Pinto.

Are you talking about my design with the sleepers, or the one featured in the video with the plastic locking channels?
I am trying to design away from T&G or Splines because I want to be able to replace boards without having to take up large sections of the floor.
I'm thinking of a modular designed floor now. I do 10' x 10' sections. Each section has an expansion area around the perimeter. I can do T&G or spline here. Worse case scenario I am only pulling up a 10' x 10' area.

Southside · October 25, 2018, 09:53:16 AM

My comments were directed at the system in the video as I don't think dirt collecting between your boards would be a problem like it would be in a home. I would still have concerns with wide lumber and no back relief in your proposal.

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 10:00:28 AM

Quote from: Southside logger on October 25, 2018, 09:53:16 AM
My comments were directed at the system in the video as I don't think dirt collecting between your boards would be a problem like it would be in a home. I would still have concerns with wide lumber and no back relief in your proposal.

What is a back relief? Is that the grooves cut on the bottom of the boards? Do those reduce expansion?

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 10:03:33 AM

What ya'll think of this concept? I am attempting to control for the expansion and contraction. If I can break up the movement and control it in many sections, instead of over the full length/width of the floor, would it be more manageable?

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 10:09:49 AM

Something I just googled....makes sense. I should plan on doing this no matter what design I go with.

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 10:22:48 AM

Now I am really getting into the details. This article I found explains grain orientation. I always thought it was the opposite of what this picture shows. I thought the wood would cup upwards if the bark side (crown) was down. What they explain is the opposite. My dad and grandfather always taught me to put the crown up......

Someone please clear this up for me....

copyright picture removed

Ruffgear · October 25, 2018, 11:03:54 AM

Personally, I think now you are just complicating things and making it harder than it needs to be. Picture framing wood is generally a bad idea. Put sleepers down use dry wood and go one direction. I agree with Southside back relief would be beneficial, it helps control cupping. Yes boards shrink more on bark side, however if you've ever built decks this is definitely not always true.
Quarter sawn and smaller width. Smaller width gives you smaller cracks but more of them.

RAYGYVER · October 25, 2018, 11:39:27 AM

Yes, I've built several decks and have always put the crown up. I have also noticed that the are boards that seem to defy the rule.

Maybe you are right, I am over complicating it.

I'm going to go get a big Ash load of Ash tonight. I hope they look like Ash. I hope they smell like Ash. :D

Brian_Weekley · October 25, 2018, 12:54:52 PM

Quote from: RAYGYVER on October 25, 2018, 10:22:48 AM
Now I am really getting into the details. This article I found explains grain orientation. I always thought it was the opposite of what this picture shows. I thought the wood would cup upwards if the bark side (crown) was down. What they explain is the opposite. My dad and grandfather always taught me to put the crown up......

Someone please clear this up for me....

I think you are getting your terminology confused. The "crown" refers to the curvature of the wood--not the grain. The example shown is correct. You want the bark-side facing down (the grain "smile" facing up) as shown in the upper right. As it dries, it will create a crown on the top (as shown in the lower right). Therefore, the crown is on top just as your grandfather said.

Don P · October 25, 2018, 06:25:31 PM

The cupping blurb is correct. However in a situation where one side is damp and the other face is dry, the wet face grows and becomes the convex side. As a carpenter when I walk into a house one of the first things I take note of is, are the floorboards cupped up, is it damp below. You are damp below, do everything to lessen that. Cracked foam isn't a moisture barrier, plastic under it, but not a swimming pool. Relief groove, back paint the flooring. Square edge boards on closely spaced sleepers, face screw the floorboards down and pull up a board when it gets torn up, KISS concept, its a shop, stuff happens.

On the cupping. Tangent to the rings, wood shrinks about twice as much as it does radially, from heart to bark. Now look at the end of a log and think about slicing boards out. A flatsawn board, a quartersawn one, what happens? Which faces shrink more? Look at the end grain of a stick of dry firewood, the checks are radial, the tangential grain shrank twice as much as the radial, in a big timber or log it can't cup, those same stresses build up until it is greater than the strength of the wood in tension perpendicular to the grain and pop, a check relieves the stress. That was drying stress 101 for a new sawmiller, pay real attention to thinking about the log and the wood it will become. Growth stress is your bowing, Magicman has made good posts on that.

Al_Smith · October 25, 2018, 07:03:50 PM

On the cupping .Before I had 800 square feet of porcelain tile installed one large room had Bruce fire side rustic planking with hob hails solid oak .Nice but moisture around certain areas like kitchen sink caused a lot of warping and cupping over the years .About a year later I had another 800 square feet of carpet replaced with hardwood .This was solid laminated hickory suggested by the flooring contractor instead of solid planking just to eliminate the warping problem .I've had no problem with it .

RAYGYVER · October 26, 2018, 07:12:57 AM

Thanks for all the advice fellas. Just a couple weeks ago I wasn't sure what the difference was in flat/quartersawn wood. I've been reading up and I totally understand it. I for sure need to quartersaw these logs to get the best performing floor boards.

As far as the design goes, the KISS method is a rule I try to follow here at work. We design such complicated things I didn't realize I was letting the floor design get too complicated. Do you guys really think I can get away with just a simple square edge, no T&G or Splines or Shiplap, as long as I have closely spaced sleepers?

Well, I'll report on the Ash load of Ash I got last night. This guy has 8 acres full of 60'+ ash trees. 12" diameter and up to the biggest was probably 20"-23". I was eyeballing that one. He said they are all mine. All I have to do is come help him cut em down and haul em off. So, I've got plenty of material to work with, and now the logistical issue is space to dry. I was going to let everything dry in the barn....but I have a feeling I will be busting at the seams by the time I process all this Ash. I need to go read up on drying Ash in the drying forum I guess....if yall have any links to some of the better threads do share.

I think the first thing I will be making is a better platform for the mill....bring on the pea gravel and some big Ash logs...