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Newbie cant keep blades sharp

Started by 61ford, February 08, 2019, 08:11:22 PM

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61ford

I'm new to sawmilling. Trying to saw my own lumber to build me a house. Mostly pine and poplar with a norwood lm 29. I'm using cooks saw blades and just like today I get through about 1 log with a blade. I try to keep all the dirt off the log that is humanly possible. What am I doing wrong? I've searched the web and cant find a thing

hacknchop

Welcome to forum are your bands breaking? Whereabouts are you working outside inside ? Also are you using lube on your blades especially in the pine ?
Often wrong never indoubt

Chuck White

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, 61ford!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Southside

What species of pine?  Old or fresh logs? Are they frozen? Deep furrow bark?  It does not take much mud or dirt at all to dull a band and pine is really good at holding sand and other fine dirt in the bark.  Have you tried a spud or other tool to physically remove the bark and see if you get an improvement? 
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White Oak Meadows

61ford

No bands breaking. Using water or lately it's been cold windshield washer fluid. Virginia pine. Some have been fresh logs today's was. Some had been laying a year or so. No haven't tried debarking. Not frozen.sawing outside. 

hacknchop

I use a mixture of water and pinesole when cutting pine it mixes well with windshield antifreeze. 
What I have done with dirty logs is to roll my log back  so that my saw enters from the cut side and does not pull the dirt through the cut.
Often wrong never indoubt

Southside

Virginia Pine has tons of knots, and those will dull a band very fast as well, the year old ones only make it worse. 

As a note have you checked your band alignment and guide clearances to be sure you are not creating a torque effect on the band?  Are the bands getting hot or is the tension dropping as you saw?  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

61ford

We have worked on the alignment quite a bit and it seems to be ok. No problems losing tension. Does seem to have to run a little more tension than norwood claims I basically bottom out the handle if not the blade comes off. Not sure what torque effect means 

Southside

Trying to describe if the band is entering the wood at an angle, not straight, so it would be twisting between the guides.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

61ford

Oh ok no appears to always go in straight

Banjo picker

Greetings and welcome:  When you put on a new blade, does it cut straight for a cut or two and then act up or is it giving you problems as soon as you put the blade into the wood.  From what I read into your first post, you said you were trying to keep dirt off the logs, but are you doing enough to get the dirt off that gets on.  You cant keep all the dirt off, but without a debarker you really need to try and get the bark off at least where the blade enters the log at least untill you get this figured out.  How wide are the cuts you are making?  How fast are you trying to saw?  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

PAmizerman

This time of year I go through bands more often than in the summer. When it is cold out the mud and rocks freeze to the log and the debarker doesn't always get through the mud into clean bark. 
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Brad_bb

I would think your problem is mud/dirt/gravel in the bark.  It doesn't even have to be visible.  Could be blowing sand or dirt in the bark.  I had similar problems and then started debarking my cut line(with a spud).  It works but can take some time if it's a green log.  Older logs with bark sloughing is easy.  I started doing it because a lot of the ash logs I cut came from a guy who had a gravel log yard and the Ash bark would pick up stones.  One hit of a stone and you had to change the blade.  Since then I debark my slab cut lines on most logs.  Bands definitely last longer.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

PA_Walnut

Where are you located? Are you SURE they are not frozen? Frozen logs will drive you crazy.
What blade profile are you using? Also, what makes you determine that the blade is dull vs. some other issue?

Have you inspected your blade tooth(teeth) with a magnifier to see what they look like? It's amazing how much this will tell you about a blade that your eye can't resolve on it's own.

I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
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61ford

Knoxville tn. There not frozen we've had very little really cold weather even less than we normally do. I think I'll go buy me a debarker and see if that helps. Well I think the blade is dull bc you just about have to force it to finish out the cut. Logs are usually 8 to 12 inches wide and I usually try to keep a steady pace while walking through the cut 

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, 61ford.  Completing your profile with your location/sawmill always helps with answering questions and also helps us to remember.  
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

Following this thread, I'm wondering if your blades are actually getting dull or if they could possibly be losing their set!

Is it possible that your bands are riding too far back and the teeth are actually in contact with the blade guide rollers, and thus taking the set out?
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

61ford

We will take a look at this. We do see sparks once in a while and we never can figure out why that is 

dgdrls

Quote from: 61ford on February 09, 2019, 08:33:03 AM
We will take a look at this. We do see sparks once in a while and we never can figure out why that is
Welcome 61Ford.    Sounds like dirty logs or even some with heavy mineral content.
Check a "dull" blade,  as Chuck White indicated just be certain you still have set in the teeth. That would eliminate possible issue
best
DGDrls

btulloh

Quote from: Brad_bb on February 08, 2019, 11:46:31 PMI would think your problem is mud/dirt/gravel in the bark.  It doesn't even have to be visible.  Could be blowing sand or dirt in the bark.


I find this to be true with VA pine.  If I remove a strip of bark on the entrance side of the cut (like a debarker does) I get better life.  Sometimes I use a different blade on the opening cuts and switch to a fresh band after I have a cant to work with.  The VA pine bark seems to hold a lot of blown in sand and dirt that just knocks the sharp off in a hurry.
HM126

Old Greenhorn

I too am a relative newbie, and also experienced the joys of this phenomenon. I have NO experience with pine (yet) and little with hemlock. Mostly I have cut hardwoods. I have always been an advocate of cheap (free) test solutions to prove a theory, so when I had issues I tried using a broad ax on the side of the log where the blade enters. Just use your eye to site down the log and clean it off along that line. This worked but was clunky, so I grabbed my draw knife and used that, works pretty good, especially in logs that have loose bark, pretty quick, except on maple. Blade life went up pretty quick. Cheap and dirty. I didn't go any further than that because as us newbies know, therre are a lot of major things to learn and fix in our heads, so I moved onto other problems.
 You don't mention, and I am surprised nobody asked, usually the first question I see, but what rake angle are you using on your blades? 4 degree I would think is what you want.
 Good Luck.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

61ford

I'm not exactly sure what the angle is. I think its 4. Cooks only sells one set of blades for mine I went looking last night for the specs but couldn't find any 

LeeB

What mill are you using? How much HP you have? How fast are you sawing? Sawing too slow can dull a blade quickly too. Have you checked the tension of the drive belt? A slipping belt will mimic a dull blade. 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

KenMac

Quote from: 61ford on February 09, 2019, 09:43:53 AM
I'm not exactly sure what the angle is. I think its 4. Cooks only sells one set of blades for mine I went looking last night for the specs but couldn't find any
I don't think Cook's sells a 4 degree blade. It's not in my catalog and they say 7 degrees works well for most any situation. I reserve the right to be wrong.
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB, Takeuchi TB260C

61ford

It could be I have no idea. I did look at the blade this morning looks like the problem is the tips of the teeth are getting bent. Some are bent up some are bent down 

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