American Elm? ID And Health

GuyInHuntsville · May 11, 2014, 09:47:40 AM

I did a lot of research about trees and I came up with this being an American Elm tree. But what kept throwing me off is that my neighbor said what ever it is he hasn't seen another one out there -rare- and the leaves always turn a bright red in the fall...But my research shows this species only turn yellow in the fall. I really like this tree and I hope I didn't harm it when the hydro-ax tore up a 3" x 6" portion of a root sticking up. (SwampDonkey you were right about those machines....Scarred several other trees.) There are also large ants living in the ground (not like a mound) at the trunk and tiny ants all over the place and climbing up the tree. I did put down ant killer powder. The tree was covered with large vines and I cut and pulled down as much as I could and pulled up as much of the vine roots as I could by hand. Also about the leaves, a lot of them have tiny holes all over.

Thank you for reading.
Guy

GuyInHuntsville · May 12, 2014, 06:20:18 AM

Is no one sure this is an American Elm?

Thanks!

mesquite buckeye · May 12, 2014, 11:19:31 AM

It looks a little off from American elms I have seen. Leaves look like elm, but the bark color seems off. Closeups of buds and the leaves that show things like hairs might help. I'm guessing other people have looked at this and might also be unsure, so didn't comment. Better info might get you a better answer. :P

GuyInHuntsville · May 12, 2014, 11:41:22 AM

Thanks mesquite buckeye! I'll take some more pictures and look for buds and stuff...I'm really new to identify trees but I'm seeing there are so many variables that matter when figuring out the identitiy...I naively thought this would be an easy one for here but I think you're right others haven't posted because of lack of info provided. It might be a while before I can get back out to my land and take additional photos. Thanks again!

GuyInHuntsville · May 12, 2014, 12:21:43 PM

Here's some more photos if it helps. Notice the "lobe" at the base of many of the leaves. The leaves are about 3" long.

chester_tree _farmah · May 12, 2014, 03:07:23 PM

The leaves do look like Elm at the base where they tie into the leave stem..... maybe it is just a very slow grower and the bark is knarly?

So up here we have something called a bastard birch - excuse the language. Supposed to be a cross between a white and yeloow birch. They look silver but the aren't?

U may get better help if this is moved to the Tree ID section?

GuyInHuntsville · May 12, 2014, 03:14:48 PM

Quote from: chester_tree _farmah on May 12, 2014, 03:07:23 PM
The leaves do look like Elm at the base where they tie into the leave stem..... maybe it is just a very slow grower and the bark is knarly?

So up here we have something called a bastard birch - excuse the language. Supposed to be a cross between a white and yeloow birch. They look silver but the aren't?

U may get better help if this is moved to the Tree ID section?

hahaha....The bark has a kinda pine tree look....It could be a bastard Pine Elm. ;D

Can you tell me how to move this thread?

chester_tree _farmah · May 12, 2014, 03:26:32 PM

I am not sure - I think an admin has to move them?

beenthere · May 12, 2014, 04:02:01 PM

Right, we do not move threads.
And likely it is good right where it is... for readership and answers. IMO

My question would be "Are all the pics for certain from the same tree?"

curdog · May 12, 2014, 05:39:14 PM

Looks a little like slippery elm.

GuyInHuntsville · May 12, 2014, 08:53:12 PM

Quote from: beenthere on May 12, 2014, 04:02:01 PM
Right, we do not move threads.
And likely it is good right where it is... for readership and answers. IMO

My question would be "Are all the pics for certain from the same tree?"

Thanks beenthere! Yes, all of the photos were taken minutes apart. I have more but I only posted what I thought were the best ones. Also....You must be right because I didn't know there was a Tree ID forum....I always focus on the top few forums....I'm still learning this site but overwhelmed by everything I'm learning and getting myself into.

I have a very important story (to me) of why I'm trying to identify this tree and I'll explain tomorrow morning but I'm cooking dinner right now (and drinking lots of beer too ;D) so I can't explain right now.

Quote from: curdog on May 12, 2014, 05:39:14 PM
Looks a little like slippery elm.

curdog....I found photos online of the bark that look like that.....CTF suggested this might be a tree that's a cross/hybrid between others....Neighbor says this is a rare tree and there's no other around in this area like it.......The bright red leaves in the fall stand out and there's nothing else around like it.
About the bark, it probably looks knarly because there were so many vines wrapped around it that took me a few hours to snip them and pull what I could out of the tree (and out of the ground by hand and with pruning shears). This tree was set free when I did this...It was that bad....I wish I took before/after photos but what I posted are the "after".

I will elaborate more tomorrow. Signing off for tonight....Back tomorrow morning....You guys are great!....Thanks for the replies!!

WDH · May 12, 2014, 09:06:39 PM

If it is slippery elm, also called red elm (Ulmus rubra), then the leaves should be very rough and sand papery on the upper surface and tomentose on the bottom (wooly/hairy). Very sand-papery. The buds should be a little hairy, too. If the leaf upper surface is smooth or just a little bit rough, and the undersides are smooth without hairs, then it is american elm.

It is for sure one of these two species.

chester_tree _farmah · May 12, 2014, 09:39:34 PM

This is a pic of an American Elm from an Alabama site. It doesn't look like what I expect to see on an elm. So there can be some variations to the bark. But best to go by what wdh says to truly identify it. Interesting land scape tree. Would make a nice central landscape feature.

Image:
http://www.auburn.edu/academic/forestry_wildlife/dendrology/dendrology/highslide/images/large/177.3.Ulmus_americana_bark.jpg

Web page:
http://www.auburn.edu/academic/forestry_wildlife/dendrology/dendrology/americanelm.html

GuyInHuntsville · May 13, 2014, 06:52:47 AM

Quote from: WDH on May 12, 2014, 09:06:39 PM
If it is slippery elm, also called red elm (Ulmus rubra), then the leaves should be very rough and sand papery on the upper surface and tomentose on the bottom (wooly/hairy). Very sand-papery. The buds should be a little hairy, too. If the leaf upper surface is smooth or just a little bit rough, and the undersides are smooth without hairs, then it is american elm. It is for sure one of these two species.

That settles it...American Elm....Thanks WDH!

The reason why I was so curious is because:
A week after we bought this place (13.6 acres) I met our neighbor. He told me "You don't know what you just bought....This is the most beautiful piece of land you could have ever found....I've been trying to buy it for decades but now I'm too old". Him and his wife told me about how on 3 different occasions artists had parked on the side of the highway, set up their easel/canvas and painted our property...They said this tree especially, and all the sweetgums, would turn vibrant colors in the fall that were really beautiful. This was many years ago back when the place was thinned out a bit. It's now pretty overgrown and the tree isn't visible from the road now with all the woods/growth since then. The neighbor said he never could identify what type of tree this was. We got it now though with y'alls help. I really appreciate it.

Is there anything I can do to help this tree grow and be healthy? I'm sure that removing all the vines helped some but is there anything I can pour on the ground like fertilizer? Lots of Miracle gro?
By the way, in the photo of the bark in my 1st post, you can see some of the discoloration and damaged bark from the vines. That's the brown areas on the bark.

WDH · May 13, 2014, 07:13:47 AM

Keeping it clean around the tree out to the edge of the crown is the best thing that you can do. A little fertilizer will not hurt, but only a little. Too much fertilizer is worse than none at all.

GuyInHuntsville · May 13, 2014, 07:24:44 AM

Thank you WDH!

GuyInHuntsville · May 14, 2014, 09:44:17 AM

Quote from: chester_tree _farmah on May 12, 2014, 09:39:34 PM
This is a pic of an American Elm from an Alabama site. It doesn't look like what I expect to see on an elm. So there can be some variations to the bark. But best to go by what wdh says to truly identify it. Interesting land scape tree. Would make a nice central landscape feature.

Image:
http://www.auburn.edu/academic/forestry_wildlife/dendrology/dendrology/highslide/images/large/177.3.Ulmus_americana_bark.jpg

Web page:
http://www.auburn.edu/academic/forestry_wildlife/dendrology/dendrology/americanelm.html

I meant to thank you CTF for the links! :P Thanks!!

SwampDonkey · May 16, 2014, 05:46:35 AM

There is no 'law' that says just because it's fall foliage color is different than the norm, that it can't be American Elm. This is how different varieties of a species are discovered. Years ago, I had the opportunity to acquire a couple true white spruce. The new flush of growth was white, then later greened up as they elongated and hardened off. ;D We also see it in Norway maple. Some are regular green and others are dark red all summer. ;)

GuyInHuntsville · May 16, 2014, 03:41:46 PM

Thanks SwampDonkey!

I went out to the property and looked at the tree yesterday by the way and looked for flowering/buds but there weren't any that I could find otherwise I would have posted photos them.