Swing mill question

[Ron Wenrich]

Right now, I have a client that is running a Mighty Mite and cutting mainly oak.  They're having problems with the blade, and a lot of it has to do with blade maintenance, and trying to cut material that is too big for the mill.  They were cutting some 12x12 stock, and it wasn't pretty.  They are also having problems with the blade diving on deep cuts.  They keep blaming the saw.

I'm not sold on the Mighty Mite idea, so, I'm looking at alternatives.  A swing mill could give them more flexibility.  Metal has been a problem for the inserted tooth saws.  It seems that the swing mill blades are easier to maintain.  There's fewer teeth, and one less saw.  Production on the Mighty Mite has been stalled at 2 Mbf per day. 

They need the capacity to cut big logs.  The normal log for this mill is over 26".  The swing mill gives them that capacity.  It also would expand their product mix if they added a slabber bar and planer head.  Right now they have an Alaskan mill, but I'm not sure there is enough talent to run that type of operation. 

Here's my question:  Can a swing mill be set up to run on an electric motor?  The operation will be stationary.  What sort of production capacity are you guys getting on a swing mill?   The Mighty Mite has a problem with throwing boards and the like forward, when it hits the horizontal blade.  Do swing mills throw much material off the blades?  Its a safety thing.  I know that you can get around things hitting the blade in the horizontal position by your cutting patterns.

[dgdrls]

Good Morning Ron,

If you need 12x12's as I understand, unless you double cut or can find a Turbo saw http://turb-o-saw.com/,
you will not find a "production" swing or Dimension saw other than Mighty Mite with a 12" cut capacity..  Even the Larger Mahoe cuts a max 12x10. 
The Turbo saw is available with electric motor option.

Not sure about throwing planks other than training,

Good luck.

DGDrls

[scsmith42]

Ron, doing a 12 x 12 with a swing mill is not efficient.  You can more easily cut a 10 x 12, but even that requires a double cut in the horizontal position, which is not fast.

To me, the Peterson and Lucas swing mills are built too light to work in a high volumn production setting.  Keep in mind that they are built to be portable, so weight is a greater concern than utmost durability.

The biggest opportunity to speed production with a swing mill would be a log deck that automatically loaded, leveled, and shifted logs.

Swing mill blades with fixed carbide teeth take a lot longer to swap if the teeth are damaged from a metal strike.  It usually takes me around 15 minutes or so to swap out a blade, and probably 10 minutes to sharpen one on the saw.  An inserted tooth blade is a much better option for production, IMO.

[Ianab]

Gut feeling is that a Swingblade wont magically solve your problems  ???

I thing a 12" horizontal cut pushing things with pretty much any mill. The Mighty Mite may be able to do it, IF all the stars are aligned, the blade is perfectly sharp, and the operator is skilled / careful. But there is a high chance of having problems. How does the mill perform on less demanding cuts, say 8"? May get much higher production on smaller cants where the saw can really power through the cuts.

As for the other questions.

Peterson can supply either the WPF or ASM mills with a 20hp electric engine, and Turbosaw also do one, although I've not seen one running first hand.

Throwing boards? In the normal cutting pattern you wont throw boards as the horizontal cut is made first. The board is still attached to the log at this point. The return cut is vertical, which frees the board and simply leaves it sitting on the log to be offloaded. They can throw "rubbish" in random directions, but this is small stuff like loose knots, small bits of edging etc. Normally you set up a "no go" area on the front and left of the saw in case of random launches.

But I suspect that if they are having issues with the MM, they may have similar issue with a Swing Blade too as the blade operation is very similar.

Ian

[JustinW_NZ]

Just a thought, for the price of a turbosaw and deck (awesome kit BTW) you could have a WM1000 sitting there "breaking down" BIG logs to manageable cants for other faster machines to then process. - Metal issues arnt so great then either.
Makes sense because there stationary and want to run electric. (I also assume they have all handling equipment)

If I was running a stationary mill catering to big logs that's how I think I would go.

Cheers
Justin

[Ron Wenrich]

They can produce a fairly decent cant.  Its when they get to the deep cuts that they have problems.  A lot of this has to do with having such a large blade and no saw guides.  Smaller blades can get away with no guides.

The horizontal and vertical are cut at the same time.  That means when the both cuts are made, the product sits down on the bottom blade.  Depending on the weight, it will throw the piece.  They told me they actually threw some 12x12s off of it.  I have seen boards and 3½x6 cants get thrown, as well.  Star alignment does seem to play a factor.

12x12s aren't a normal thing to cut on this mill.  I'm trying to get them to do it on the headsaw.  But, they don't have a way of moving it around yet. 

Thanks for the input.

[Gasawyer]

As far as slinging boards or cants they should be wedging the bottom cut on the large cants to prevent the binding of the lower blade. That might be a problem with the saw they are using, but that's common practice on a Lucas cutting large cants. I agree that on of the large woodmizers would be a better idea along with some kind of metal detection routine( I know it won't get all the metal but should get most).

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Ron Maby I should have set the Lucas up that day I visited Mate  ;) 2000 per day with an 80hp sawmill sawing cants for two blokes loader and large logs piled up id be putting my foot up their backside :D

Seriously I think they have hit their comfort zone if they are peaking out at that put them on piece work or contract rates that will sort em out  ;) if that saw aint turnin ya aint earnin  ;)

when I did the Farm Progress Days in Pa I put a whopping -2hrs on the mill and produced about 2000bft of 6x4" cants in sycamore and inch boards in maple out of 5 largish logs .

I just spent 7 days trying to train one bloke and teach him some tricks had to give up on him as he was on cruse control and was not listening to a word i said and pulled Hayden of the morbark peeler then started training him from  scratch and I let him loose on his own on the third day and he did near on 2000bft for the day on the lucas  ;) ;)

Swinger production will vary depending on how you are setup operator ect but if your cutting cants in larger logs with a loader feeding and taking cants away its not hard to hit 4 to 5000bft for a fair days work I use to do that amost every day in large cypress and pine

What gauge saw are they running in the horizontal saw ? downhere if you are doing deep horizontal cuts regularly with a quater saw you want to go a gauge heavy so if its got 8 or 9 gauge on it go to a 7 or an 8 gauge as they are stiffer when you want to bury them .

Hows their sharpening skills ?? as that has alot to do with how any saw like a Swing or Quarter saw will run I have seen alot of people that will grind the saw heavy to one side and lead a saw to cut like a bloody pig  : :'(

and electric swinger pulls like a train through the cuts i have only seen and mucked around with one though and it had the 15hp on it I think the new ones are either 20 or 25hp electric ;)

Regards Chris

[sigidi]

As far as slinging boards or cants they should be wedging the bottom cut on the large cants to prevent the binding of the lower blade.

x2

also not wedging the board will stuff up blade tension, leading to terrible cutting results.

12" isnt possible for a lucas, but the model 10 does 10" vertical cuts all day, with no problem.

I operate the mill on my own and at times handle logs by hand and get through about 1400bft a day cutting everything that is possible from the log, right down to 2x1". I would expect 2 people should SMASH 2,000bft a day and then add to that all large cants my expectation would be over 2,000bft. Although having said all this I can't say what these lads 'should' or 'shouldn't' be able to cut. I know every inch of my machine, maintain every single nut bolt and screw to the extreme and make sure the machine runs in top condition - so I expect everyone else does the same....