Fuel for saws

[charles mann]

Is anyone having issues running this blended ethanol gas? iv noticed in my weed whackers, a brand new fwd/rev tine tiller (got 2 garden plantings out of it before it crapped out) and i think the cause of my jonesred 2166 crapping out, that its causing issues in the fuel delivery system. My 2166 will start up, run for about 15-20 min, same for my stihl kombi weed whacker, and after heating up, act up and start sputtering, as if running out of fuel or some other form of fuel starvation. I can however keep the trimmer, (99% of time) running, as long as i feather the throttle or keep it 1/2-3/4 throttle. But when i dies, starting it before it cools completely down, is out of the question. With my 2166, i can feather the throttle, or keep it medium idle and it will run for about 5 more min, and then it dies, and there is NO starting until it cools completely down. Its in the saw shop now, and haven't heard back from them yet, but they think the diaphragm in the carb took a crap, and i thought the same, so i told to just to order a new carb and install it. If that works, my trimmer will go in, then the tiller.

2yrs ago, the local stihl dealership (went with stihl, bc there is only 1 husq dealer/scv center in my area, and bout 5 stihl dealer/svc centers) had a valentines sale, and i picked up a 661 with a 36" bar for $1000. The stihl reps were there, and i asked about running 100LL av gas in it. The rep said yes, since 100LL was designed for and used in air cooler aircraft eninges. I asked for a letter of approval to run av gas, and the rep obliged my request. I don't use the saw, or any of my power tolls on an everyday, or even 3x a week avg. through out the year, and i have had ZERO issues. My cub cadet tiller is 2yrs old, and has been inoperable for 1.5 of those years, and for a yr now, my 2166, has been acting a fool. 

Before anyone says it, non-ethanol fuel in my area is as rare as hen's teeth, but the places i do see it while traveling, its more expensive than av gas. Which is why I have converted over to running ALL my air cooled gas engine on av gas. 

Just wanting to get a feel for what others have seen or had issues with.

Thanks in advance.

[tawilson]

There's a spark arrester in the muffler of my Stihl trimmers that has plugged up on me and caused issues. I have non ethanol gas right down the road and it's all I use in my small engines and it still has happened.

[Upstatewoodchuc]

One of the few things in upstate New York that we are fortunate about are Stewart's shops. Stewart's carries 91 octane ethanol free gas at all of their stations now and I mix it 32:1 with amsoil interceptor synthetic oil, this combo has made my dirt bikes, atv's and chainsaws live long happy lives.

[Southside]

When I tried running 100LL in my 660 she burned the jug, and the dealer had set the carb and recommend it. If your regular gas is sitting around in those engines for a month or better it could be ethanol related issues. Have you tried a stabalizer added to the gas?

[hedgerow]

We are lucky around here non ethanol gas is available but runs 25 to 30 cents higher. In all my small engines and old gas tractors I run non ethanol gas and have zero problems. I have fixed a lot of small engines and carbs on old tractors of people that run blended. If you keep the gas fresh it seems you can get by with the blend. I know several lawn services that run blended and get along fine. If with non ethanol gas if my chain saw gas is more than month old I dump it in my pickup and mix fresh saws seem to run better. Av gas is not easy to get around here and is very pricey. 

[Al_Smith]

Here I go being disagreeable again .Except for areas of Europe we don't have ethanol free gasoline .Unless of course you get  marine,racing or aviation fuel .Some feel they must ,some of us just deal with it .
Sure I can get any one of them.Race gas locally for about triple  the price. Aviation gas at the little airport 10 miles away .Marine gas at Lake Erie 90 miles away .It's a chainsaw,lawn mower,old tractor not a vintage Harley knuckle head  nor a 1963 Corvette or a 1927 Rolls Royce . ;D

[charles mann]

It's a chainsaw,lawn mower,old tractor not a vintage Harley knuckle head  nor a 1963 Corvette or a 1927 Rolls Royce . ;D

and you paid for a running chainsaw right? when you yank the cord, you expect it to start right? maybe not the first yank, but yanks within reason, and it start right? it may just be a saw or mower or whatever, but its a tool to me, and when i ned my tool, i need them to work. over $30,000 in hand tools, test tools, specialty tools, and guess what, they all work. to me, those vintage wheeled items are nothing more than a money pit. kinda like my wife. ;D didn't have issues 10 yrs ago with regular ole' gas. these dang hippies and their EPA gestapo goons have ruined small engines by implementing their corn gas. only good thing from corn, is liquor ;D, not gas, that is what cabbage is and red beans is for.  

[charles mann]

When I tried running 100LL in my 660 she burned the jug, and the dealer had set the carb and recommend it.

 Have you tried a stabalizer added to the gas?

did the shop warranty the parts/labor? might have been running to low a oil mixture. the rep said increase the oil ratio to a little over 32:1, instead of the 50:1 that was recommended for regular (ethanol or non) gas.
plus you have to high rev the engine and lean the fuel mix out to burn the build up off the plug, or it rough idle/run and will cause higher CH temps. i guess it could burn a jug out, given the right settings. 
naw,, never needed to run stabilizer before, but guess i should have. now with my miller bobcat, yes, i pour the recommended amount of stabil, and give it a touch more for safe measures. then i fire the welder up, running for 10min to ensure the fuel is at least to the carb and shut it down. i also run 100LL and since my lift pump is out, i installed a squeeze bulb to push fuel to carb, but i don't have any issues with it busting right off. it actually cranks easier now, than when i got it. 

[Southside]

I was so sick of dealing with that place I bought an after market kit and fixed it myself. Then I switched to Husky as the dealer about 30 minutes away is absolutely amazing.  I always run 32:1in all my saws, was told not to do so but I don't care, it works great and other than that one time I have never burned one up.

[HolmenTree]

Our local Shell station sells 92 octane  premium no ethonal which I use.
I'm looking at trying out this full synthetic mix oil for my saws. Heard lots of good reference to this stuff and it's cheaper by the ounce then Stihl Ultra to boot.

[charles mann]

I was so sick of dealing with that place I bought an after market kit and fixed it myself. Then I switched to Husky as the dealer about 30 minutes away is absolutely amazing.  I always run 32:1in all my saws, was told not to do so but I don't care, it works great and other than that one time I have never burned one up.

huh, not sure why it burned out, unless the soot build up was to much and finally the CHT got to great. Can these 661s with the M-tronic be adjusted manually? i might need to do a cleaning on mine, just in case, not that someone running the same blend burned their's up. Granted, yours could have been an isolated incident, but i dang sure odnt want to burn up a $1200 power head. 

Our local Shell station sells 92 octane  premium no ethonal which I use.
I'm looking at trying out this full synthetic mix oil for my saws. Heard lots of good reference to this stuff and it's cheaper by the ounce then Stihl Ultra to boot.

I may try something like that. I don't run my saw/s as much as i should since that isn't my profession. But i buy 5gal of av gas a time and transfer into a 1gal can and do my mix using a scaled mixing container. 
If you try that synthetic mix, can you make a post letting others know if it works or is a bust?

[Skeans1]

I remember from race bikes some mixes don't like AV gas and others don't play well with race gases, another thing is others such as castors which smell nice don't work great in cold weather.

[Southside]

A part of me wonders if the lead can lead to issues given how much the technology has changed from the days of all gas having lead. 

[Al_Smith]

It's a chainsaw,lawn mower,old tractor not a vintage Harley knuckle head  nor a 1963 Corvette or a 1927 Rolls Royce . ;D

it may just be a saw or mower or whatever, but its a tool to me, and when i ned my tool, i need them to work. over $30,000 in hand tools, test tools, specialty tools, and guess what, they all work. to me, those vintage wheeled items are nothing more than a money pit.   

Ahem! I hope you aren't suggesting my tools don't work because they do .Some people spend vast amounts of money on things and some have the ability to repair and maintain stuff in almost like new condition and I'm in the later group . 8)

[lxskllr]

Had an unusual experience recently. My Deere mower and Poulan saw have run alcohol almost exclusively in recent years. The Deere's old enough that it started on real gas, then went to alcohol whenever that switched over. Only had minor problems. The Deere needed raw gas in the carb to get it going in the spring, and the Poulan would run poorly if it didn't get used regularly, but would straighten out under heavy use.

I got a Stihl this early spring, and I didn't want to run alcohol in it at all, so I switched all of my small engines to pure gas. The Deere started acting erratically, and eventually quit running, and my Poulan quit idling. I was able to adjust the Poulan, but the Deere carcass is still in the drive. Coincidence? Dunno, but the timing was interesting.

My speculation is the real gas loosened some crud up in the Deere, and either plugged the fuel filter, or did something to the carb. The Poulan only needed an idle adjust, and the speed isn't jacked up or anything, It just changed. I don't have any theory on why that is.

[charles mann]

It's a chainsaw,lawn mower,old tractor not a vintage Harley knuckle head  nor a 1963 Corvette or a 1927 Rolls Royce . ;D

it may just be a saw or mower or whatever, but its a tool to me, and when i ned my tool, i need them to work. over $30,000 in hand tools, test tools, specialty tools, and guess what, they all work. to me, those vintage wheeled items are nothing more than a money pit.  

Ahem! I hope you aren't suggesting my tools don't work because they do .Some people spend vast amounts of money on things and some have the ability to repair and maintain stuff in almost like new condition and I'm in the later group . 8)

No sir, by no means is that what i was getting at. Just like those vintage autos, we spend 100s to 1000s of $ on a tool/machine and dont expect break downs in less than a yr, or even 2 yrs. but unlike snapon or mac or matco, if it breaks, there is no life time warrenty and it costs us more in the long run. 

[John Mc]

Except for areas of Europe we don't have ethanol free gasoline .Unless of course you get marine,racing or aviation fuel

Not sure what you mean by this, Al. There are plenty of places in the US that carry non-ethanol gas, and they are not just marinas, racing outlets, or airports. I've probably got half a dozen regular gas stations within a 30 minute drive of me that carry it, and have verified that it is in fact ethanol free (testing for alcohol in gas is very simple, requires no special equipment or chemicals).

[John Mc]

I'm a pilot, and have easy access to 100LL Avgas, since I run it in my Cessna 172 aircraft. I also know a bit about lead, having worked in a manufacturing facility for a number of years that had many thousands of pounds of molten lead in our heat-treating process. We had to go through repeated safety/health training on dealing with lead. We required those working in that department to shower and change clothes before going home - for their own safety, and because we didn't want them bringing lead residue home to their kids and their developing brains. The tetraethyl lead in leaded gas is a neurotoxin. In th eyears following the ban of leaded automotive fuels, there was a measurable increase in the average IQ of US residents.

I will NEVER run 100LL in my chainsaws. I have no desire to inhale the lead-laced exhaust that would be coming out of my chainsaw a couple of feet from my face. I'm fortunate to have non-ethanol auto fuel conveniently available. If I did not, I'd just run E10 gas and make sure I didn;t leave it sitting in my saw when not in use.

[lxskllr]

Except for areas of Europe we don't have ethanol free gasoline .Unless of course you get marine,racing or aviation fuel

Not sure what you mean by this, Al. There are plenty of places in the US that carry non-ethanol gas, and they are not just marinas, racing outlets, or airports. I've probably got half a dozen regular gas stations within a 30 minute drive of me that carry it, and have verified that it is in fact ethanol free (testing for alcohol in gas is very simple, requires no special equipment or chemicals).

It's my understanding it isn't in MD at all with a possible exception of the eastern shore. I'm lucky to not live terribly far from PA, so there's some socialism free fuel available. While it's doable, it's not exactly convenient.

[John Mc]

Try pure-gas.org to find stations that sell ethanol-free gas in your area. You can also add stations you find to the list.

[Al_Smith]

I did check "pure gas" and the closest to me,as I've said is lake Erie . I don't get too excited about gasoline .Only once on a souped up Harley I did run "cam II" on occasion .Even though I've got a few hopped up chainsaws I'm not really sure how much difference it is running hi test as  to regular  gas .
Some say detonation problem but a few of mine have 23 thou piston to head deck clearance and I've never experienced it on regular gasoline .I dunno maybe we have better gas in Ohio :D --and I'm not talking about the reaction of pickled eggs and beer .

[lxskllr]

Try pure-gas.org to find stations that sell ethanol-free gas in your area. You can also add stations you find to the list.

Mostly eastern shore, a couple in the mountains, and looks like a couple outliers for the race market. Nothing closer than the PA station I go to, but that's a good resource. I wish it were more widely available. I don't mind paying a bit more, but I'd prefer not driving ~25 miles to do so  :^/

[Maine372]

do you always buy gas at the same station? i have one station locally that i have learned to avoid when buying small engine fuel, and another that i have never had a problem with.

i only run 93 octane, and i pump a gallon into the vehicle before i start filling fuel cans to purge the hose.

is there any water, residue, contamination in your fuel cans?

just throwing out some ideas....

[gspren]

Since the new Royal Farms convenience store near me has non ethanol I buy it, but for several years I bought the 10% ethanol and added either Sta-Bil or Startron and didn't have a problem even with 6+ month old gas.

[charles mann]

do you always buy gas at the same station? i have one station locally that i have learned to avoid when buying small engine fuel, and another that i have never had a problem with.

i only run 93 octane, and i pump a gallon into the vehicle before i start filling fuel cans to purge the hose.

is there any water, residue, contamination in your fuel cans?

just throwing out some ideas....

id rather kill my saw or weed whacker before killing a $12,000 cummins and voiding my warranty due to neglect. 

i use 5gal racing cans for my gas, and 5gal jerry cans for diesel. i rinse my gas cans out with denatured alcohol and let them air out 30min and then put the cap back on before going to the airport, and before the airport, the local fuel stop, which has has 2-3 fuel drops a day during the summer months, and 1-2 during winter.