Wind powered sawmill

[Hilltop366]

Now were talking... making something from scratch my favourite !

I think that it was this book "Sawpower making lumber in the sawmills of Nova Scotia" That I read about 8 years ago that said the first sawmills in Nova Scotia were wind powered. I'm not sure what year it was but French history goes back to the early 1600 so it could have been a long time ago.

Anyway here are some thoughts I have about this.

If using a horz. shaft windmill you get the advantage of having the shaft with a off set (crank) running in the same direction as the required motion of a vertical recip saw, using a ratcheting wheel & push rod off of the saw drive would advance the carriage as required for each saw stroke with a rope (or something else that has some give to it so the saw does not bind ) running from each end of the log carriage and making a wrap around the wheel.

I think a newer idea (still very old) and easier to make for the saw part was to have a wider blade than the sash saw and only have a guide at the top like a piece of wood with a slot in it to keep it straight, as the saw cuts on the down stroke by pulling the blade from the bottom no frame is needed at the top.(not sure what this design is called, someone else might know)

Keeping in mind that any time you change direction of a shaft like using angle gears you lose some of your power, if you don't have a lot of power to start with it robs too much.

Look for old recip mills for ideas

I live on top of a hill with lots of wind so I have put some thought into a wind powered mill before But that is as far as I got.

[Kansas]

There is a dutch mill at the city park in wamego, kansas. If I'm not mistaken, they have fired it up from time to time to mill flour and sell it for promotional purposes. I've seen articles in the local papers on it, but I can't remember if any of them mentioned horsepower generated. I know its a good sized windmill.
On a more practical side, the state legislature just passed net metering here in Kansas. Of course, that would take the fun out of trying to run one straight off of wind.

[DanG]

Thinking "outside the box" can be difficult because there a lot of boxes, each inside the next.  In the real world, every time you manage to get to the outside of the box you're in, you just find yourself in another box, albeit a larger box with more freedom than the previous box.  I'm not sure that there isn't an infinite number of boxes, but I'm quite sure that there are individual people who have a talent for escaping from boxes.  Most of them follow their predecessors to the hatch through research.  Others manage to find the exit to a yet unbreached box, and reach new heights that have not been seen before.  And then there are the "Edison Class" inventors that seem to have escaped from all the boxes, yet can see inside all of them.  To reach that level, one must not only have not only a completely free and brilliant mind, but a total absence of "the fear of failure" and of hard work.  They must also have almost super-human powers of focus and dedication as well as, unfortunately, a lack of the emotions that pull most of us away from that level of focus and dedication.

Now you might wonder just what it was that inspired such a soliloquy as what you see above, just as I do.  I don't have a clue, unless it could be that fryedbk suggested something so  opposed to conventional thinking that it seemed ridiculous at first glance.  It occurs to me that you can get as much power as you want out of any wind you happen to have, as long as you are willing to build an airfoil big enough to convert it to a usable force.  I can saw a piece of wood with a handsaw with one hand, so I know you can do it with ½ old fart power, but it is slow and I can't maintain it long enough to saw out a respectable board.  A windmill powered sawmill has no time constraints, and it does not tire, so the production is entirely determined by the effort the builder puts into it.  You could use a jigsaw blade and cut twigs into toothpicks, or anything larger, depending on what you put into it.

In other words, to put it succinctly, why not?

[Fla._Deadheader]

I haven't seen one word that says it can't be done. The buzzsaw would be the most difficult, needing a faster RPM for the saw to cut the wood, and not "Grab" it from turning too slow.

  I have more wind than most of y'all, but, have no need for a buzzsaw.

  I have a nice stream flowing through, so, water power is my next real project.

  There's no reason to not cut one side off a differential, for a down gearbox, or laid on it's side, for a vertical rotor. Just have to meet the HP requirements to gear UP the saw blade.

  I like electricity, myself. An induction motor over speed will generate power. Just need a govment to control the voltage. OR, run a 120-240 Alternator, and run the motor directly from IT. I KNOW that works. Wind direction does NOT come into play, then.

[Ron Wenrich]

The question isn't "why not", the question is how.  The box we're looking in is just old and dusty.  No one's been in here for awhile.  

Nosing around on some wind generator sites, I see that they make some turbines as small as 5 KW and up to 50 KW for home electricity.  They even have units up to 250 KW.  

Using Deadheader's figures, a 5 KW unit would generate 6.7hp.  A 20 KW unit would produce nearly 27hp.  But, going this route is pretty expensive.  I saw an installation price of $100,000.  But, there is a ton of money that government is giving back, so maybe its not out of the question.

You can get to old windmills that they used to pump water with pretty cheap.  Usually a couple of grand.  

Should you use the wind to produce electric or mechanical power?

[Fla._Deadheader]

The old Bakers and Aermotors were not producing much HP. They only had to lift a small amount of water from the well. I don't know if a gearbox from one would work. They were not real heavy duty, to take the surge from the sawn wood.

  Jacobs started out with trying to produce power with a water pumper, and quickly gave up.

  I built a 4KW, using a chunk of Solid round stock, 6" dia. X 2" thick. Center bored it and drilled 3 --1" holes at 120° out. Installed 3 turned down car axles in the holes, and set screws into them. Had to POUND them in the holes, then true up the ends with a file.

  Carved 3 blades from Ash. Made a deep hole saw from a ¾" spade bit, tack welded into a piece of slightly ground down 1" thinwall conduit. Filed teeth on the conduit. Used a ¾" geared drill motor, and jigged a track, and drilled into the center of the hub end of the blades, as accurately as possible. Once drilled, I welded a piece of 1" conduit into a piece of 1½" angle and bolted that to the blade. The tube was inserted in to blade.

  Had a grease zerk on each piece also. Slid the blades onto the 3 axles, and made a ¼" thick washer with 3 grooves filed out 120° out, and attached cut off Field tiller springs to each blade with "eye" bolts through the angle and to the washer. It self centered on the gearbox shaft the hub was attached to.

  Used 3 angled "Heim joints" to attach to the angle, so when the blades tried to come off the axles, from centrifugal force, they would "feather" and self govern. Trial and errored the RPM's to right at 220.

  Bought a Browning in line gearbox, in Tulsa. Mounted it backwards, after turning a shaft for the hollow shaft in the gearbox, and to mount the hub. Mounted it in a 12" dia. piece of well casing, that the Alternator fit inside of. 4 KW 1800 RPM Alternator, from Surplus center. Made a short driveshaft from a double universal joint from a new Holland Silage cutter. Drilled holes to bolt the Alternator to the casing. Made an end plate for the open end.

  Mounted some brackets on the outside of the casing, to attach the tail. Made the tail so it would furl in high winds, but, hung it wrong. It still made great electricity, and it is still sitting on top of a 100 foot tower, as far as I know.

  Used GM starter brush assemblies to create slip rings, to a box that was mounted to a tower leg.

  Made the slip ring section from a piece of Galv. Pipe, and epoxied the 3 Brass rings to the pipe after bolting 1 short piece of 10/3 Romex to the 3 rings. Had to turn it true on the metal lathe. Had it bolted to the saddle from a piece of the well casing, that the generator housing was made from. Used a cut down field disc as a weather deflector and had an International Truck rear wheel bearing and race installed in the top of the tower. Ran the emergency furling cable down through the pipe to the ground. Ran the #4 welding cables down the tower to the Battery Shed.

  Worked slick until the twister came along.  : :

  Can provide more instructions, if needed. That's one way to get wind power to a saw bench.  : ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Gary_C]

There was just a feature article on these small windmills last night on Iowa Public TV. Here is the link.

http://www.iptv.org/mtom/feature.cfm?Fid=532

[bandmiller2]

Sorry for being kinda of a spoilsport but wind produces small power for a long time ,sawing requires alot of power for a short time.A wind device capable of practical sawing would have to be huge.As mentioned a sash type saw would be doable.Or install a wind gen to augment your home power and use the money saved to run the mill from the grid,use them like a battery.Frank C.

[fryedbk]

WOW! Never thought I would get this much input from such an idea. All your inputs are greatly appreciated. This gives me many things to consider. DanG, enjoy your replies and thoughts. I think, from all the discussion a dutch windmill with a sash or reciprocating blade would work the best. But since I have limited resources I will try the squirrel cage to electricity route and start a dutch style in a year or two. Just need to find some designs for the Dutch type as far as inside gearing, etc.

[beenthere]

Found this thread interesting and mind provoking.

An idea comes to mind of a windmill (standard-type like on the farm for pumping water) to lift many gallons of water to a water tower whenever wind is available. The water in the tower would represent the stored energy that could be released to convert it to mechanical or electrical energy to power a mill.  The number of gallons would depend on the need and the efficiency of conversion.