Log Prices

John Woodworth · April 10, 2009, 11:35:28 AM

Just got a new Price sheet yesterday from Merrill and Ring and it's finaly reached the point of why waist the time. I've never seen prices this bad, load prices wouldn't even cover trucking in some cases.
Cedar and Alder which normaly have held a fair price are down over 50% yet the lumber price at the lumber yards sure hasn't dropped.
Fortunatly all my equipment is paid for and it doesn't cost anything having them sit here at home.
I love the woods but it's been one slap in the face after another and now the goody goody boys are bringing back the Spotted Owl garbage and this work for nothing so somebody else can profit from my labor, time to back up and regroup.
Maybe if enough of us backed off and by the time people start using Ferns and Corn Cobs for their daily duty we might win.

madhatte · April 10, 2009, 06:01:28 PM

It's getting to where we can't even get anybody to bid because the gyppo outfits we usually sell to are leery of getting stuck with loads they can't move. Several of our sales are gonna end up being 2-year contracts so we can all ride out the bad times. Meanwhile, we're still laying out sales and cruising and marking, as though there was still a market. Our management strategy requires tree removal for stand improvement. No sales = no forest management. We're all in trouble these days.

Brian Beauchamp · April 11, 2009, 07:00:33 PM

I got quoted $.05 for pallet and $.10 for grade across the board just yesterday on some storm damaged timber...understandable for what is being sold, but stumpage of standing, healthy trees isn't far off of that though. Pretty pathetic. I've told all my landowners that don't have an emergency need for cash or something to salvage to hold onto it until this funk passes. I just hope we have some loggers and mills left to sell to by the time it passes.

mad murdock · April 22, 2009, 06:29:25 PM

The doldrums are hitting hard in all sectors. Helifor Canada has gone out of business, they were a joint venture deal between Columbia Helicopters, and a Canadian Company that Heli-logged. There are alot of heavy-lift helicopter operators here in the NW that are really on the skids( no pun intended), and the company I work for ( a light helicopter operator, providing aerial aplication to the timber industry), has seen a pretty big pull back in operations by all of the major timberland owners. They are not spraying anything unless it is in immediate danger of being choked out this growing season. The number of long-load haulers in Oregon that you see on the road from day to day has dropped significantly too. I used to see on an average day 6-10 log trucks a day on my 22 mile commute to work, now I see maybe 2- or 3 at most. We are all just trying to hold on tight and ride it out, in the mean time, looking for any way to turn an honest buck until things improve.

redprospector · April 23, 2009, 09:01:12 PM

Well, I guess I should feel a little better knowing that I'm not the only one in this boat (but I don't).
The two bigger mill's around here have closed down, never to be reopened. The mill that I used to sell all of my log's to closed last summer. The owner is 77 years old, and finally decided he was tired. The only other mill close, lost their contract with the oilfield for 3x12's so they only fire up the mill one or two day's a week. They do their own logging too, so they don't buy anything that's not standing.
There are 3 or 4 of us running our bandsaw mill's (mostly so we'll have an excuse to keep doing a little logging), but there's not much of a market for anything here. I'm just hoping that I can get it sold before it rots.
Everything is paid for, so if it don't run, it don't eat. But I'm fast approaching the point that if I don't run, I won't be able to eat either.

Andy

chucker · May 13, 2009, 10:04:53 PM

i did pick up on a small clearing job with a few nicer ash trees in the 30" range with a couple of white and red oaks for saw logs . with the price of lumber/logs being down i am wondering if its worth saveing them for the saw or just cut them for the fire wood pile??? most of the ash should be 16 feet long/20" tops.. oaks are notthat tall so might make a good 10 ft. in all theres a good 2.5 cd.

woodmills1 · May 14, 2009, 05:53:03 AM

Unlike previous years, when the mud season hit, the log buyers did not return to buying logs. Pine has always slowed at some point in feb. or march, but then the market returns some time in march or april. This year it hasen't returned. The only logs I can sell right now are pallet grade, going to a landscape timber producer at 100 bucks per thousand. It is a shame to see clear logs going for that use.

Sawyerfortyish · May 14, 2009, 07:10:54 AM

I won't sell any log for that. I always said if a log didn't bring.50 I'll saw it. I figure the oak logs even if they lay here more than a year are still low grade and I get 1.25 for that. But for now the good butt logs I'm sawing and running it through the kilns and making flooring. Pine I try to get it cut and on sticks so the grubs don't drill it full of holes.

woodmills1 · May 14, 2009, 09:14:43 PM

the trouble for me is I still don't have the room because my driveway work is still not done. I settled up with the excavator guy who didn't finish the job, for short money and have a new guy coming in next week. I have been working in a very small space since the snow left. Yes, it is sad to sell good pine for a dime, but my tree guys have been stuffing me with it so no room means it has to go out. soon I will do just what you say cut and sticker. With the LT 70 now I should save much time. I don't sell any oak logs I save them for the horse fence crowd.

WILDSAWMILL · May 15, 2009, 09:04:10 PM

theres a land owner here got about 2 semi loads of white oak logs hes trying to sell they were loged last fall or late summer any idea what wood be fair to offer him
i dont have a market for that much but wood like a deal

chucker · May 15, 2009, 09:35:05 PM

theres a few questions to be answered first, like what size as diamete, lengths and if there northern or southern white oaks ? before a good offer could be advised..... such as northern white oaks or reds from the north have tighter grains then that of the southern .....

Chico · May 16, 2009, 05:58:53 AM

Or Appalachian I'd take a lookto see if maybe thee may be some veneer in it I think if the price is good enough and I d buy it saw the highest grade stack it and either leave the rest for pallet qr ties jmo
Chico

woodmills1 · May 16, 2009, 06:04:59 AM

Too many variables to really say with out looking at the logs.

Here is the data on white oak from the 4/11/09 hard wood market report, with prices per thousand green in traincar load quantites

northern appalachian southern
4/4 4/4 4/4
FAS 940 800 770
SEL 765 790 760
#1 520 450 450
#2 350 325 315
#3 280 265 255

So, assuming you get the same amount of each grade from a load of northern logs. (not a good assumption but a point to begin discussion) You would have an average of $571/1000 bd ft. Lets say you find a hungry sawyer for $150 per and can move the logs and or lumber for $80 per to give a total of 230 for costs. How much of the 341 dollars left would you be willing to pay for the logs?

woodmills1 · May 16, 2009, 06:13:17 AM

Or lets say you have a paid for sawmill and truck to do hauling and delivery, as well as a customer who makes barrels. He will buy true quartersawn white oak at $3.00 per bd ft off the mill and will take down to 3 inch widths, and since he makes barrels of different heights he doesn't care about knots.

assuming you can yield 50% true quartersawn you would see $1500/1000 bd ft and have another 50% of flat and rift sawn but probably mostly narrow lumber. If that comes out at the average from above thats another $285/1000

now how much would you pay for the logs?

chucker · May 16, 2009, 08:35:05 AM

so assuming there 100" with 8" tops and 10 cords to a semi load, 800.00 would not be all that bad .... good to better w.oak even around here is a commodity...........

Bibbyman · May 16, 2009, 08:59:21 PM

We don't buy many logs and most of those we buy come from one local logger. We are trying to keep our prices up just because everyone has to make a little money but I think Mary is being a bit harder on knocking back for major defects. We tend to get a lot of logs that are, well, junk. Before, we could just absorb the junk logs in the cost of doing business.

Prices for 4/4 oak grade lumber keep falling at about 10% a month. This month for red oak they are paying $595/mbf for FAS and F1F, 425 for 1C, 395 for 2C, 325 for 3C and 75 for 3BC. White oak prices are not as good by 40-50/mbf. These prices are considerably less than those posted by Woodmills1 above.

We can get a good price for ties and beams but it takes logs that are solid, sound and straight. Half the logs we get can't be made into ties or beams. These wait for lumber orders or, if not good enough for lumber, we make firewood out of them. Right now, we've got more firewood logs on the lot than sawlogs!

chucker · May 16, 2009, 09:07:26 PM

such is the case around here ! the value of a # 1 log is better to stay upright and alive an to be select cut on a special order then to wait it out on the skidway...

woodmills1 · May 17, 2009, 06:02:38 AM

Also, don't forget my trees are almost exclusivly taken down by tree service companies. They get paid by the homeowners when I take out the logs and leftovers. They have been giving me more firewood to make up for the falling log values. The companies I pick up for do not want to go back to hauling their own pine to where ever or who ever will take it. I get more than enough pine, so I must turn it over due to its short shelf life. I got a check yesterday for a 2505 bd ft load delivered on 4/22 just before they stopped taking any pine but pallett. It paid $265/1000 for #1 and $100 for pallet

Corley5 · May 17, 2009, 08:50:28 AM

Woods run 10' sugar maple logs are paying 200 dollars a cord and basswood 10s are paying 110 a cord delivered to the mill. That mill is only paying 85 $ a cord for 100" maple sawbolts while the flooring mill down the road is paying 135 but there's rumor that the flooring mill may quit buying for a few weeks at the end of the month :-\ They've got over 1200 cords in inventory with stain season coming fast :

For 85 I'll put them in the firewood pile. Times are tight. No ones selling stumpage, a couple long time mills have shut their doors until things level out, the company that hauls my logs normally would move 5 or 6 loads of logs a day are now doing two or three and if it wasn't for the booming 100" firewood market he'd be laying off drivers and parking trucks.

Ron Scott · May 17, 2009, 09:48:00 AM

It's the same thing here. I have a number of landowner potential timber sale areas of "good wood" that I haven't spent the time to selectively mark for cutting yet. No since putting paint marks on trees if there's no markets or loggers available for the wood or do the harvest.

I 've had a large area of oak and maple marked and on the market for some time and the only offers are those who want to cut it for firewood only. I won't sell "good wood" of mostly sawlogs for just firewood. It would also take them forever to harvest all the wood on the area for just firewood.

One of my steady wood buyers wanted it, but his mill hasn't milled any logs since the first of the year. He says he still wants the sale if he can find any mill markets. So no sense preparing more wood for sale if there is "no market". I don't want to give the landowner's wood away either. ;)

Bibbyman · May 17, 2009, 08:57:52 PM

In talking with our local logger, I asked him why land owners were still willing to get their timber cut considering the low prices and bad markets. He said he has more jobs lined up than every. Land owners are afraid of the economy and are trying to convert as much to money as they can (I assume fearing that it will only get worse).

I know that for the past six months or so we've had calls from land owners wanting to ask about prices of logs, etc. Some had loggers appraise their timber and others were considering doing some logging themselves. We advise leaving them stand if they are in good health or otherwise need to be removed.

The land owners around here seldom regard timber as an asset that can grow in value. Some see it as a retirement investment or rainy day asset.

Sawyerfortyish · May 18, 2009, 07:11:40 AM

I've had an increase in people calling about a tree in there yard. I'm getting about 3 calls a day. I won't touch any of these trees.

woodmills1 · May 18, 2009, 07:18:42 AM

Yard trees are where I get my logs. Due to the major ice storm early last winter it seems like no one wants any trees close to their house. All of the tree services are busy

Cedarman · May 18, 2009, 07:29:02 AM

Bibbyman, people will sell there trees at bottom prices the same as people sell their stocks at the bottom. They fear they will lose what little they have left and they usually do.