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Muffler mods

Started by woodsdog2015, April 04, 2018, 07:34:51 PM

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Al_Smith

I acquired a Stihl 024 from a dealers dead pile that wasn't dead .Evidently the owner sent it in for repairs and they found a scalded piston and sold him another saw .These plus the 026 models had three different mufflers and this one was the most restrictive .All I did was gut the muffler and rebuild the carb,never did a thing to the piston .It has ran flawlessly ,toasty piston and all .So in so many word what I'm saying if you know what you are doing you're not going to ruin a saw by altering the muffler .Further more a Stihl dealer by franchise rules is not allowed to alter a saw in any way including the muffler .Oh before I forget,I run it on 32 to 1 mix ratio . 8) <I just had to throw  that in.

woodsdog2015

Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

wild262

Quote from: woodsdog2015 on April 08, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.

               It absolutely does in my opinion.  Downside is more noise sometimes.  As was said, the extra heat is what  is detrimental to the saw, esp. when using in summer months.  Some will argue, but to each his own. ;)

Bandmill Bandit

Used to be saw engines were fairly decent out of the box and I still did mods because having raced snowmobiles you just have the know how to get them running BETTER! BUT now they require a near tear down and rework just to get them to idle decent never mind perform any where near the theoretical maximum. Any thing with a new 2 cycle hits the bench for a rip down and rework before I ever pull the cord. I even swapped the carbs on my most recent saw and blower to new "older model" carbs that you can actually adjust properly before I put gas in the tank the first time.

Mufflers get reworked and I adjust the exit orifice size to achieve best back pressure too. Its a real PITA but well worth it.        
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

HolmenTree

Quote from: wild262 on April 08, 2018, 09:46:07 AM
Quote from: woodsdog2015 on April 08, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.

              It absolutely does in my opinion.  Downside is more noise sometimes.  As was said, the extra heat is what  is detrimental to the saw, esp. when using in summer months.  Some will argue, but to each his own. ;)
Yes they absolutely last longer. :)
As I showed before my 27 year old 066Mag that I just rebuilt recently for the first time still has lots of life in the piston/cylinder.  Only had to replace a loose PTO bearing.
Thanks to its factory installed dual outlet muffler long before EPA and OSHA they built the saws to last.


 

 

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Woodcutter_Mo

 Here's the muffler mods I did on my 455, I drilled a hole in the side and made a weld on deflector and have added a spark arrester as well. The saw is a little louder but not by too much, actually similar to my stock 372xp. After the 372xp's warranty is over it will get some muffler work as well as my 550xp.

-WoodMizer LT25
-592XP full wrap, 372XP, 550XP, 455 Rancher, RedMax GZ3500T
-Fixer-uppers/projects:
024AV, MS260, MS361, MS460, Shindaiwa 488, 394XPG

teakwood

Quote from: wild262 on April 08, 2018, 09:46:07 AM
Quote from: woodsdog2015 on April 08, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.

              It absolutely does in my opinion.  Downside is more noise sometimes.  As was said, the extra heat is what  is detrimental to the saw, esp. when using in summer months.  Some will argue, but to each his own. ;)
X2 and what you guys call summer months for us its 12 month per year and ad 20%.
Now its 27 degrees in the morning and 34 after mid day. Just nasty  
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

wild262

Quote from: teakwood on April 08, 2018, 12:03:19 PM
Quote from: wild262 on April 08, 2018, 09:46:07 AM
Quote from: woodsdog2015 on April 08, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.

              It absolutely does in my opinion.  Downside is more noise sometimes.  As was said, the extra heat is what  is detrimental to the saw, esp. when using in summer months.  Some will argue, but to each his own. ;)
X2 and what you guys call summer months for us its 12 month per year and ad 20%.
Now its 27 degrees in the morning and 34 after mid day. Just nasty  

    I actually prefer to cut in cooler months or early spring.  Gives the wood time to season some, no humidity to deal with, and no bugs, ticks, poison to deal with.  I'm actually burning 2 wood stoves as we speak here in NE Missouri.  Winter keeps dragging on.  Just bought a new Echo 360P, but I doubt I will wait till the 5 yr. warantee is up before I muffler mod it and adjust to 40:1.   Its very restrictive.

moodnacreek

Put a high compression piston in a 261 epa husky. That gave it considerably more torque. Then I put the xp muffler on and that increased the acceleration.

woodsdog2015

Now you're the second person in this thread to mention not only modifying the muffler but also switching to a less lean oil to gas mixture. Specifically 40:1 gas/oil mix instead of the factory 50:1 mix. What is the reason for that? Again, my concern and issue is for saw life not speed or saw testing. Also can advertised "test mufflers" be used for wood cutting and timbering operations? It appears that the model I'm interested in is always publicized as a test muffler only not for wood cutting but why would you invest in these mufflers just for saw testing purposes? The other thing I heard is that the stock mufflers ensure greater torque than speed and this is more important than speed in  the wood cutters world, all else being equal.
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

woodsdog2015

Btw, I too prefer to cut now while I can see everything in the woods and  you can work like a bull and stay relatively cool with no bugs etc. to me this is prime time for wood cutting.
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

wild262

Quote from: woodsdog2015 on April 08, 2018, 05:53:13 PM
Now you’re the second person in this thread to mention not only modifying the muffler but also switching to a less lean oil to gas mixture. Specifically 40:1 gas/oil mix instead of the factory 50:1 mix. What is the reason for that? Again, my concern and issue is for saw life not speed or saw testing. Also can advertised “test mufflers” be used for wood cutting and timbering operations? It appears that the model I’m interested in is always publicized as a test muffler only not for wood cutting but why would you invest in these mufflers just for saw testing purposes? The other thing I heard is that the stock mufflers ensure greater torque than speed and this is more important than speed in  the wood cutters world, all else being equal.
I don't know if your referring to me or not.  And I certainly don't want to hijack this tread with the "mixture" debate, but yes I do prefer 40:1 or more oil.  If I am milling, it gets dropped to 32:1. That milling puts a lot of stress on them.  But those days are pretty much over for me.   I've been inside lots of saws over the years and have seen several bottom end failures with bearings and such ran on 50:1.  Not saying that was the cause, but the saws I have been into that were ran with 32 & 40 to 1, had more oil film coating on the lower internals, and they were in the shop for new top ends.  That's just my observation.  Thus that's why I now run 40:1 in all my 2-stokes.  The 50:1 was mostly a EPA thing as I understand it in order for the saws to make the feds happy.  If you have been running the leaner mix, then stick with what works for you. :)

Rebarb

My muffler modded saws cut wood more efficiently and they run cooler.
I also run 40:1 in all my saws.

teakwood

I have always run 50:1 with stihl oil, first the orange jugs and since 2 years the semi synthetic stihl oil. never ever had a scored piston and i did hundreds of hours of chain saw milling in tropical hardwood in very hot temps with a 088.  
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Drifter27

I'd like to hear about this also. I don't have the experience a lot of people here do but I've always thought muff mods keep saws cooler and that's good for everything

woodsdog2015

Quote from: HolmenTree on April 08, 2018, 11:39:06 AM
Quote from: wild262 on April 08, 2018, 09:46:07 AM
Quote from: woodsdog2015 on April 08, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
Thanks fellas sounds like most feel that the saws will run better and cooler with a reasonable muffler mod.

              It absolutely does in my opinion.  Downside is more noise sometimes.  As was said, the extra heat is what  is detrimental to the saw, esp. when using in summer months.  Some will argue, but to each his own. ;)
Yes they absolutely last longer. :)
As I showed before my 27 year old 066Mag that I just rebuilt recently for the first time still has lots of life in the piston/cylinder.  Only had to replace a loose PTO bearing.
Thanks to its factory installed dual outlet muffler long before EPA and OSHA they built the saws to last.


 

 


Holmen Tree, did you adjust the carb when you utilized the dual ported muffler so that the saw wouldn't run leaner and thereby have concerns about frying the piston and cylinder or was this all set from the factory?  It appears that most here enjoy the muffler mod but also do something on the other end, like switch to a less lean oil to gas ratio etc.  I guess I'm wondering if I purchase a muffler for my saw, they call them "test" mufflers, and do nothing to the carb or continue to use the factory 50:1 fuel to oil mixture ratio, will that be detrimental to my saw just by opening up the muffler.  The stock MS 362C muffler is just an open can with no baffle in it whatsoever so just adding a couple of more holes doesn't seem like it would lean the fuel mixture too much would it????    I'm throwing all of these scenarios out there sorry fellas.
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

HolmenTree

Woodsdog, yes my 066 mag with dual outlet muffler came from the factory that way and from my information it also came with carb jetted richer.
To be honest I have no plans to do a muffler mod to my new MS261CM. I do residential tree removal and I think the extra noise would only be  detrimental to my business.
Out in the wilderness make all the noise you want.

Earliest Stihl factory dual outlet mufflers I can remember was an option for the 038 Magnum around 1985. But the 038 Super around 1983 may have got them first in the PNW.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

mike_belben

Fellas, a 2 stroke's lifespan is heavily correlated to being tuned correctly for the current operating condition.  There is no set it and forget it in a saw thats used in both summer and winter.  Every 10 or 15* temperature change really does need a little turn on the screws to run optimally.  Maybe a 70cc saw isnt too noticeable but on a tophandle you cant miss it. Theyre way down on power if out by 1/2 turn. 


If tweaking screws isnt your bag then the Mtronic stuff may be the ticket for ya. 
Praise The Lord

HolmenTree

Some of my saws lose that sweet spot at WOT with just a 10th of a turn on H.
Up here in the great white north, temperatures can vary big time. Go from 40 below and a few months later 110 above.
Cold temps needs the carb to be richer if set with summer adjustments. 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

woodsdog2015

Quote from: HolmenTree on April 10, 2018, 01:07:09 PM
Woodsdog, yes my 066 mag with dual outlet muffler came from the factory that way and from my information it also came with carb jetted richer.
To be honest I have no plans to do a muffler mod to my new MS261CM. I do residential tree removal and I think the extra noise would only be  detrimental to my business.
Out in the wilderness make all the noise you want.

Earliest Stihl factory dual outlet mufflers I can remember was an option for the 038 Magnum around 1985. But the 038 Super around 1983 may have got them first in the PNW.
I believe I'm going to leave mine well enough alone too.  On another subject, and this is for anyone.  Does anyone know where I can get a full service manual for my Stihl Saws.  I did a quick google check and one popped up for the MS 362 and 362C (which is my saw) and it says 2010-9 so I'm assuming it was put out that year?  Is there anything a little newer?  My saw I believe was Manufactured in 2012 (I think) even though I bought it new in late 2015.  
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

Al_Smith

I've never tried but I think you can get them through Stihl .Might just be the operators/ users  manual though come to think about it .If not you might be able to find one on flea bay .

woodsdog2015

Thanks Al yeah I do have the owners manual but I'm talking about the actual service manuals?  I find them very useful for saw maintenance and what not, I have one for my four wheeler and truck too and they have saved me a little $$$ along the way.  Plus, I'm just interested in them.  
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

Al_Smith

I don't have the new service manuals because the newest Stihl I have is a pair of MS 200T's .I do however have the older  manuals on micro fitche and the parts lists in a big dealers book that must weigh 10 pounds .
Being somewhat of a collector of a number of things i have a library of service manuals covering everything from chainsaws to Bridgeport Milling machines .They are where you find them is all I can say .

thedoublejranch

You have to be careful, back-pressure actually aids a 2 stroke. So much un-burnt fuel escapes, and a backpressure pushes it back into the cylinder to be burnt. This is the principle in which an expansion chamber uses, the pulses reflecting back pushes un-burnt fuel back into the cylinder, creates a natural supercharging affect. Of course, our saws do not use this expansion chamber (I know hot saws do) and a little in moderation will help, but there is a point of diminishing returns ie power and also fuel consumption. So start with baby steps.

Normal soot and carbon can restrict it over time, boiling hot water clears the carbon/soot right off and a spark arrestor screen too
The Double J Ranch & Timber Farm.
Member "NWOA" National Woodland Owners Association"

knuckledragger

Wow, what an outstanding thread. I've been inside many, many saws. Very few echos, mostly stihl, husqy, and not quite as many Jonsered. Every one of you guys display acute knowledge of chainsaws and what impresses me is it's practical, applicable knowledge. I have grown accustomed to muffler modifications in conjunction with ten thousands squeeze on the jug. Running the 40:1 mix has proven to be the best mix ratio for me. I should also touch on this point, fresh air as well as vaporized gas runs faster and cooler over polished portals. Oh, please forgive me I started rambling on. My intentions were simply to compliment all of the knowledgeable people who submitted posts to this thread.

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