My first post. I joined cause I built a band saw mill and it looked easy but I can't seem to tune it in. I still have work and ideals to try but am looking for those who have had to work through issues and thier suggested aveneus to persue and anyone else who is willing to help. My goal was to build as cheap as posible with stuff I had or could find for free.
I tried to post a photo but am not smart enough.
I used a weight lifting set, 2x2 metal square metal, 2x4 thin wall metal and a nine horse tiller. My first log went ok and was mostly good enough. My band guides where skateboard wheels. My second log was a disater. Wavy as heck. I made new bearings and leveled the track a bit better and it just keeps getting worse. The wheels are 20.5 inch trailer tires. My tracking adjustment is two metal plates, one has the wheel bearing welded to it the other is welded to 2x2 metal and four half inch bolts give me my adjustment for tracking. Band tentioning puts some warp in the origional wheel alighnment but I can adjust and keep on the wheels.
I went from cutting fair (first log) to having the blade climb and then kind of hold but get wavier and wavier. I changed the band guides to two bearings and a bit of down presure and the mill did the oposite and dived pretty deep. This morning I added a bottom plate below one side of the bearing guides and the cut dove a small amount and then held pretty steady till about three quarters of the cut and then put a wave neer the end.
I intend on putting beams under the tracking and am not sure what will work towards a better cut. I have lots of things to try. It might just be to ricoty. I looked at everything I could find before building and it looked simple enough but now only looks cool cause it cuts like a bad word.
I got about $380 in it so far counting ten 157" blades but not counting gas to get stuff welding rods and grinding wheels.
I realize this is a long first post but I joined the forum cause I am not sure what is most important.
Thanks for listening.
gww
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/guide_28229.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/guide_28129.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/pully_28129.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/pully_28229.JPG)
Welcome mate, just for chuckles try a new band. If your first log was ok mayby you hit some grit or a pebble. The guys will be all over you about guards around the wheels. You have all the basics theirs just some details that are causing you problems. Use some calipers and check the set on the band, be sure its the same on both sides. Another thing that may be causing a problem is belt slippage engine to wheels. Tell us more where are you located.?? Frank C.
I would try a new blade. Cutting through dirt in the bark or hitting metal will dull them very quick and then they won't cut straight.
Next thing would be to check for blade tension. With a set up like yours (mine is similar) I would make sure both tire have the same air pressure (32psi is what I aim for on mine). Then I would add tension until the rubber on the tire starts to bulge around the blade. Then let off tension until the tire stops bulging then you know you are at the maximum tension your tires can handle (at that psi you have it set to) By having more tension it allows a slightly dull blade to cut straight a little bit longer. It also helps a lot in wide cuts.
Frank
I am on my second band. I had my very first cut log come lose and kink the blade and I thought that even though it cut ok, it might be a problim. No deal. I really don't get it. I put the beefed up guides on and the saw climed to the top of the board and pulled forward of the guides. I had put a little level on the blade and it had seemed ok.
I moved them up where the back wahser/bearing was touching the back of the blade and made my last cut of the little board that was left of the log. Fair cut till about the end.
I wonder if I should try clamping the sliding part to the solid part during cutting?
I am in Rosebud MO.
I can't seem to worry about gaurds if I can't get it to cut. Right now I like to see the blade on the tire to see if it wonders around.
The pully is ok now I think. I origionally used the tiller setup with its small spring and it ate the 20 year old belt up on my home made pully on drive wheel bearing. My new setup has been one of my major expenses. I had to replace the added on ider pully for $24. I put a heavy belt and a stronger sping. I do have to remember to hold the handle in pretty hard an have to pay attention. It will bog the engine now.
Thanks for the comments
gww
I would then suggest putting on a third blade, if it is wondering that means it is dull. With a good sharp blade you should be able to cut with no blade guides as long as you don't push to hard and the head and cause the blade to come off the back of the wheels.
Hello,
I dont have a selfmade mill, but when my blade rises,dives or waves, it has always been either 1- a dull blade 2-to little tension on the drive belt 3- pitch buildup on the blade. If your blade is sharp and clean, how is the drive belt tension?
Joe
The new blade did not do as well as the old blade. My guides are a real bugger and I still have to find a way to beef up the movable one. Made out of water pipe. My other bigg expence $40. the tires where $134, I scrounged the rest of the stuff. I only have about 7 or eight turns left on my tentioner. I had 22 inch tires but because of my pully on the back of the hub, I had to mount the wheels backwards and couldn't get the luggs on far enough to hold.
Now when I tention I am out about 2 inches further then I built for and I get a little more flex in alinement. I am now bending the adjustment plate as much as moving alinement. I guess I need to beef the plates and put a bit longer bolts in. I have thought about it and can't come up with a way to strengthen the actual tension slide bar. I have it to what really seems tight but I will beef it up and try for more. I will try and follow you advice and see what happens.
Anything else?
Thanks
gww
PS I type slow and spell slower so please bear with me.
Homesteader
I made my first cut with no guides and did better then I am now and that drive belt was slipping. I think I have the belt portion solid now if I squeeze the handle hard enough. I find myself not doing that cause I get to consintrating on the rest of the machine. I believe I made it a bit fast turning and subconciously I tend to copensate by feathering my grip on the tensioner.
I am thinking that maby I am just not tightening the band enough though what I am doing is really stressing the michine. If I had used pillow block bearings I would just reconfigure by adding another bar to the frame in front of the tire, now I have to come up with another way to compensate the flex.
My first log was only about 6 foot long. My second log was 10 foot long and 18 inches on one side and maby 14 inches on the other. Blackoak I think. took me a couple hours to get it to the house. Raining everyday and my little hand winch would barily move it. I am finding it hard to cut down live trees. I have about 12 acres wooded but most not marketable. I need to try and get this thing cutting. My brother wants to build a small lake and it will take out about 3 acres of trees simular or a bit better then mine.
I don't need perfection but I didn't even sticker and try to dry that last log.
I think the tension on the drive belt is about worked out. I think I am feeding maby to slow as my sawdust is pretty small and it is very seldom that I tax the motor. I only did two logs and was a bit intimidated while doing them, expecialy as everything that wasn't welded came lose, mostly my old guides. Also my cut got worse with my fixes.
Thanks
gww
Are either of the wheels touching the teeth of the blade? If so it may be taking the set out of the blade causing them to not cut straight.
Do you have your blade turning in the right direction? It is possible to flip them inside out to run in the opposite direction.
Also ideally you would have the wheel that is pulling the blade through the wood be the powered one.
If your wheels are not taking the set out of the blade than I would still suggest trying another blade.
This is my very first post. If I'm seeing the pictures right you have the blade running the correct way. You are driving the wrong wheel for blade drive. You need to drive the opposite wheel. Your drive belt needs to be run to the sawdust exiting side of your mill. You are in effect trying to push the blade through the cut instead of pulling it through. This would cause all of your problems you're mentioning. It seems like it should work this way but it just won't. I know it sucks because now you have to change everything over. I completely understand as I'm on my second homemade mill build. I think everything else you have designed will work with this one change to make. Instead of switching everything around for the wheels, maybe turn the engine around and flip your blade inside out and throw sawdust out the other side than you have it now? It might be easier for you... Good luck!
Hello to both gww and Ox, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum. 8)
Joe
QuoteAre either of the wheels touching the teeth of the blade? If so it may be taking the set out of the blade causing them to not cut straight.
They could be. I have tried to look at that and the trailer wheels don't seem to have a large oval shape at the center. My left band wheel, the drive wheel seems to run about a quarter to a bit more to the front off center compared to the other wheel. This is the best I have ever got it adjusted. I started out with them pretty close "inplainer" to each other but when I tension the band all bets are off and I start adjusting. I was happy when I got them to not need adjusting when I put tension on more then once in a row.
QuoteAlso ideally you would have the wheel that is pulling the blade through the wood be the powered one.
That is bad news as the left wheel is the drive wheel and it would be pushing the blade to the cut. Sitting here, I am not thinking of any easy way to change that. How important could that be?
The point of the blade is hitting the log first and then the gullet. I don't think the blade is backwards.
I have cooks blades. I think they call them black. I thought I was ordering the 3/4 inch set cause I was thinking all my wood would be oak or hickory but I guess I ordered 7/8 th. I read but still had a hard time ordering and can't remember if I got the 1.3 teeth per inch or the 1 teeth per inch. I looked up the info so I could find out but all it said was 7/8th and .42 thick on my email. I have 8 more so changing is not a problim. I got to get another log though. I am trying to fix a few problims before I waste another log. I still need to cut up the top of the other one for firewood. It is muddy.
I do hope to get $18 dollars worth of wood out of a blade one of these days.
Thanks for the comments. Can I make my drive wheel work in my configuration?
gww
I am not a sawmill builder or designer, but I believe that Ox is spot on about the blade pulling vs pushing. Also the teeth do not need to ever touch anything; blade wheels or blade guides. That would roll the set out of the teeth which would be a bad thing.
Ox
Owch, You and joe hit me where it hurts. Oh well, if it's got to be done, then its got to be done. It will cut my log size down too. I won't have 20 inch logs anyway but ouch.
I did very little with bolts and used weld for most things. I have already ground lose and rewelded a few things.
I guess I will be using pillow blocks after all. I was so proud of myself for having everything I needed to make a belt I already had fit. The only plus is I have a better chance of dealling with the speed issue by adding an alternate pully on the opposite side of the mill. Though I doubt I can do the math to get the pullies correct.
I may be a bit getting to it now. I had a two or three week lull and worked on nothing but getting stuff to build and building but now the grass is growing the garden needs tilled and I am about to get another grandbaby. I thought I would have it going better by now. I always over estimate my abilities. I will get done though.
I am glad I joined and ask for help and the suggestions make sence to me. I will probly save time in the long run.
Magicman
Thank you for the welcome.
Thanks guys for the help. Now I guess it is on me.
gww
Gww: I'm going to say pretty sure your tires are taking the set out of your band. Been there, done that. Nothing defeats your self esteem worse than having to chain saw the band out of your first cut. Worked and worked on everything until I turned off some rubber where the teeth run on both tires. Problem solved. Try that before you reengineer your drive train. Might work the way it is.
Ox, you got me trying to picture which side my drive wheel was on. Then I noticed in your signature that we have the same type and model mills.
I found a photo in the middle of my assembly. The sawdust exits right as your looking at it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29968/2011-10-30_17-49-04_228-1~0.jpg)
gww and ox welcome to forestryforum! gww, that's a neat mill you built for a little bit of money. I think if your tension is adequate, the drive side is not causing your tracking problems. Building my homemade mill caused the most grief when I was at nearly the same stage as your build. The mill seemed complete, but it would not cut correctly. The two major problems (three if you count alignment) were tension and flimsy roller guide supports. I was not able to get enough tension to really align my roller guides correctly at first. Then once I did get enough tension, the roller guide supports weren't strong enough to hold the position of the blade.
Concerning drive side, read the last few posts of this thread
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,66408.0.html
It seems to support that in theory. However, until we have an engineer or physics professor type do the math it seems reasonable that the drive side is insignificant if the tension is adequate.
Again, I commend you for your sawmill building efforts. Hang in there.
fish
Mike
I have a hand planer. I think the above guys might be on to something though. My blade origionally acted like the set could be bad, it climed up the first few inched and then stayed there. But then my guides got ate up and I redesined and the blade dove like crazy. Then the blade jumped forward off the blade guides. I readjusted again and put the backstop against the back of the blade and it was a little better. I built this like I do everything. No real mesurements, more just looking at what I had to work with and where it might fit and then adding as I went.
What you are saying is not hard to try and so maby I will but my confidance is at a pretty low point that anything could be that easy. I have tried a lot of stuff over the last few cuts and I just keep making it worse or atleast not even as good as it was.
wm
Thanks for posting the picture. It gives me one more option for turning the motor around. I was thinking more pullies, belts and running pillow blocks.
yours would be more metal but the same belt system. Both will mean starting the motor everytime from the cutting deck. To bad I can't make my motor run backwards cause everything was good except the cut the way it is now. Man I really welded that motor mount tight. I dread the more cutting and patching.
I done had to add new log dog/square peg holes cause my guides made the old ones not work. I had to moved the lift pullies cause they made my board cut a max of 4 inches deep. Thats what happens when you build without a plan.
Thanks for the imput.
gww
gww - listen, bud. I know how bad it stinks having to re-engineer and re-do things over again. I'm dyslexic. I'm constantly seeing things backwards. I'll build today betting money it's right just to have it backwards tomorrow. Then the third day it could be right again. My patience and sanity have been tried to the extremes. Oddly enough, this problem doesn't seem to come up in reading and writing too much. But please trust me in saying you need to have the driving wheel or tire PULLING the the blade through the cut. I tend to look at what is successful and works and all the mills out there pull the blade through. I think that tells you everything you need to know. After re-reading everything again I realized that if you turned the engine around and flipped the blade inside out the entire track backstops and everything would have to be changed around. Backwards, no? Heh. That's my world. Anyways, I firmly believe that everything else you have there will work. It'll take time and a little money for consumables to change over but it'll be SO worth it in the end when you're milling nice lumber with no more headaches. I'd bet a dollar that this is your main problem.
WmFritz - yep, same mills. Only thing I'll say is if I could do it over again I would buy the complete carriage and sawframe and only build the track. I felt like destroying things in a child-like tantrum more than once. One piece, the sliding yoke for the band tensioner I welded 3 times. Yep, cutting apart twice. The main sawframe double tube I had to weld twice. The bunks and dogs I had to actually build 2 sets because the first set I welded so well there was no cutting apart and salvaging when you consider time and materials vs. gain. Who knew you could have 3 or 4 different types of backwards? :-\ I hope your build went better than mine!
I forgot one more thing. I've run and been around tire type bandmills for years. I've never heard of the tires taking the set out of the blades. The only problem would be a little minor tire scuffing where the teeth ride. That soft rubber is no match for the blade. In fact, the tire type mills usually have a longer blade life compared to steel or belt-on-pulley systems. This is due to the tires being so forgiving. Making sure you get them balanced at a tire shop helps a lot. Most trailer tires will be somewhat out of round. Just get them spinning on your mill and take something abrasive to true them up before you get them balanced. You wouldn't believe how much of a difference it makes!
Where are my manners? Thank you very much for the welcome, men.
Yup, when I mentioned band wheel above, I was thinking blade guides and had overlooked/forgotten that you were using tires. I have no idea one way or the other. Touching the blade guides still stands. Do not let it happen.
Would it be possible to switch things around so the pulley (and other required parts) is on the other side instead of changing direction?
Absolutely to what MagicMan said. Tire rubber and blade = fine but anything harder = well, not so fine.
Quote from: Hilltop366 on April 09, 2015, 10:59:43 PM
Would it be possible to switch things around so the pulley (and other required parts) is on the other side instead of changing direction?
I think this is pretty much where it stands at the moment. Switching blade direction would require re-building the whole track dog and backstop system. I failed to see this in my earlier post. ::)
Ok
I am now so far behind the comments that my typing skill won't allow me to answer each comment made individually cause I would never get to bed. I am thankfull for them all and taking it all in. I am going to look up some mills (again) for comparison. Just to show how I think, I will explain a bit of my build prosess. I built from left to right not knowing which way the motor turned till I got to it. Like all things, I just felt lucky that it turned the way that worked best for how I had built it at the time. I built the cutting rails without knowing which way the blade was going to turn or how the guides would affect it. Since I didn't know I just put squaring slots on both sides so it wouldn't matter. I put points on my dogs on both sides so it wouldn't mater what I ended up with. When I changed from the 22 inch tires to the 20.5 inch tire, I did it out of frusteration cause the mill was free till then. The frusteration factor was stupid cause dad had two tires that where close to what I bought for free but I had forgot, didn't wan't to drive and be wrong and was close to being done, so I wasted money that I didn't have to for speed and being impatiant.
I still felt lucky cause my cut size went up with the wider tensioning and my squaring slots worked. Then I put some rickity old guides on that made me put even more new squaring slots on and I had to do that outside and couldn't use the other squared metal to place them and had to use a square and a level which I try to stay away from almost as hard as I do a measuring tape.
I have had some good and some bad and most bad is poor planning and most good is just luck.
I was really happy with the way the controls ended up but they are worthless if it doesn't cut. Luckaly some of the stuff on the cutting deck is interchangable.
I will have to look at the rest of it and think about it.
My guides still need reinforced. I am going to try to run them with pressure as everyone loves cooks roller guides but I am to cheap to buy them and am trying to come up with a compermize.
I hate the ideal of starting the motor out on the cutting deck cause I have been starting it almost every cut during the adjustment period. My tensioner may be hard to move cause I don't want to ruin the last of the metal that fits inside of each other. I am sure I will wake up and just start doing something that hits me when I take another look at it. Maby I will just cut that other tiller wheel and make a pully for the tensioner wheel and leave everything like it is and drive the tension wheel. I wonder just how much stress that would add to the tension setup? It already flexes now.
Thanks for the help
gww
As I look at it some more another option could be to flip the motor around and add a jack shaft to reverse the direction, then spin the whole saw around on the track so there is no need to move dogs and backstops.
Not sure what the best option would be, just chucking some ideas out there.
Hilltop
Chuck all the ideals you can think of at me. I never know what will click in my brain till it is there. Ideals are great.
Thank you
gww
Gww...First, welcome to the jungle. I admire your determination to make lumber. You've done a fantastic job so far. some others have mentioned that it makes no difference if your band pushes or pulls the blade in the cut. The reasoning is because since the blade is equally tensioned along its entire length, it does not care if its being pushed or pulled. sounds reasonable but its not true.
Two reasons: the first is simply physics. at rest, the blade is indeed tensioned uniformly along its length. however, once it is brought up to speed, inertia causes the blade to momentarily lose tension at the top of the drive wheel (in the conventional configuration). This causes a minute wave in the band as it travels along the top to the driven wheel. Woodmizer and perhaps other builders put a dampening block inside the blade cover to help dampen the wave as it comes off the top of the drive wheel. In your setup, This phenomena is occurring just as the blade enters the wood; the one place where you need uniform tension.
The second reason is resistance. When the blade is running with no load, the blade characteristics (speed, temp, vibration etc...) are static. but as the blade enters the wood it encounters resistance and blade characteristics become highly dynamic. It is the sawyers job to control the sawing conditions such that the blade runs as close to static as possible (ie, cool temp, constant band speed, uniform tension etc...). in your case, the blade is entering the wood at its momentary loss of tension. The resistance caused by sawing has the undesired affect of heating the blade in the cut and causing more loss of tension. in your case, the more resistance in the cut, the greater the tendency to climb and dive in the cut.
The conventional set up is conventional because it puts the momentary loss of tension and the resulting wave in a place where it does not affect the cut. Take the good advice already given and get your saw pulling through the cut. and as Ox said, the problems your seeing will largely go away.
Welcome GWW and Ox. Very insightful and capable both of you.
I think the first thing to look at would be getting everything just as rigid as absolutely possible. You might look at adding another piece just like you have that you wheels attach to and is your band adjustment and possibly set it behind your up rights with plenty of cross pieces welded between the two. Twice the steel=4 times the strength ;D
I strongly feel if you have any flex in your wheel alignment and band tensioner that it would be very difficult to adjust it the same each time.
Short of doing that, you might try adding a "tang" gauge. (Basically an old needle stile torque wrench) In your 4th picture it shows 2 plates with 4 bolts that I'm guessing would be your wheel alignment. I'd take a ¼"x 1' rod and weld one end onto the top of one of these plates with the other end going towards the center of the mill left un-attached. As you add tension the free end will move backward and let you know where you are at. Granted I know nothing about mills with tires, but I would think it would also help you out if your tires are warming up as the day warms up, changing your band tension.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/pully_28229.JPG)
would it be possible to twist the belt?
Quote from: limbwood on April 10, 2015, 08:26:27 AM
would it be possible to twist the belt?
That is a perfect and elegant solution to changing blade direction. If I remember right, gww mentioned that both sides of the track (clamps, dogs, backstops) are the same so it won't matter which way the blade is running in that aspect. One would only have to slightly twist the engine slightly askew enough for the pulley to "push" the belt not to rub itself to death as it crosses past itself. They used to cross, or "X" belts all the time in the old days. Of course, the longer the belt the better but I think this idea would work with what gww has set up. I wish I had thought of this but usually the simplest and easiest fixes escape me. Well done, limbwood! This is why I love this forum. You get all of us together and there's nothing that can't be accomplished, I swear.
I can say for sure that if your teeth are hitting the rubber on the tire it WILL take the set out. On mine if I get the tracking too far back on the tires so it is riding on the teeth the set will be ruined before the first cut is finished. I would worry more about that than powering the wrong wheel.
Quote from: Joe Hillmann on April 10, 2015, 11:53:31 AM
I can say for sure that if your teeth are hitting the rubber on the tire it WILL take the set out. On mine if I get the tracking too far back on the tires so it is riding on the teeth the set will be ruined before the first cut is finished. I would worry more about that than powering the wrong wheel.
Huh! That's a first one for me. It appears we have differing experiences with tires and blades. It's never happened for me and it has happened for you. Interesting thing to put away in the knowledge base. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Joe. I find it interesting when something I think is always so, isn't! I wonder if different tire compounds (hard or soft) has something to do with it. Maybe the ply rating on the tires as well...?
Quote from: Ox on April 10, 2015, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: Joe Hillmann on April 10, 2015, 11:53:31 AM
I can say for sure that if your teeth are hitting the rubber on the tire it WILL take the set out. On mine if I get the tracking too far back on the tires so it is riding on the teeth the set will be ruined before the first cut is finished. I would worry more about that than powering the wrong wheel.
Huh! That's a first one for me. It appears we have differing experiences with tires and blades. It's never happened for me and it has happened for you. Interesting thing to put away in the knowledge base. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Joe. I find it interesting when something I think is always so, isn't! I wonder if different tire compounds (hard or soft) has something to do with it. Maybe the ply rating on the tires as well...?
I would guess that it depends on just how hard the tires are pushing on the teeth. If they are just touching it probably won't hurt them much. But if there is a lot of tension pulling the teeth into the tire then it will bend them.
Can you put up a picture/pictures of where the blade touches the tire from the front so we can see if there is a gap or not?
Quote from: Joe Hillmann on April 10, 2015, 11:53:31 AM
I can say for sure that if your teeth are hitting the rubber on the tire it WILL take the set out. On mine if I get the tracking too far back on the tires so it is riding on the teeth the set will be ruined before the first cut is finished. I would worry more about that than powering the wrong wheel.
Rubber tires can and have on my homemade mill pushed out the set of the band blade on the tire side. The blade then dives because the top set is no longer present to counter the set of (on the mill) downward directed set teeth. Good point Joe Hillman.
This too can be remedied.
Ok I am back and have read the comments. It is too late to twist the belt. I took a longer rout.
I got up at 5 this morning and ground the wheels lose and switched them and everything else that went with it. had to grind lose one side twice due to messuring a bit aggressivly to take out any slack.
I thought it might be an oppertunity to beef up the tension side by making the offset bigger on the drive wheel side. I still had quite a bit of flex when putting under tension. I did get it good enough to losesen and retention and hold tracking. I did note all the comments on tensioning. I did get it tighter then I have ever had it but did not cup the tires..
I don't trust the new drive belt set up and think I might get slippage but I am going to try it before I break down and buy a proper lenght belt. I have the same issue of not quite being able to perfectly center the band on the drive wheel. I think it might be good enough and believe I am going to go ahead and put more weld on it then the bit of tack welding I tried it out with.
You see that little bitty board that was left on the cutting rail. I fliped it and took another inch of it. I then set up one of the boards and took 2 inches off it. I know it is not much of a test but it did cut strait with no waver.
My little bitty cuts did bring a question to mind. It seemed as the board was cupped long ways. It is not out of the question that my track could have a long bowing drop in the center as I just used a 2 foot level to set it and have not made it very solid yet.
The question I have is; Could the tree have enough tension in it that the board is cupping due to stress or is it definatly track?
The saw just scraped the board when I drug it back over the tiny part of the log. I did not try to fine tune the blade guides and just cut. The blade used to drop below the cut before.
Over all I think I am on a better path then I was. If I can get it to run I don't know how much beefing up I will do as I won't cut too much wood. I will probly work on multiple things if one thing breaks. I need to cut another log and see what I have but am pooped today.
Pictures? That sucky camera that I use won't even work on new batteries unless I put them in a charger for 20 min first. I will see what I can do.
Thanks for the help, more comments?
gww
pictures
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000413.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000414.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000415.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000416.JPG)
The pully could use more surface area and is in an unsafe place for hand placement. If it works it needs a gaurd more then the tires do.
Thanks
gww
ps sorry joe, you said pictures from the front of the tire, that didn't register.
It's good to hear that you are now on the right track with your sawmill. You have already recovered your first year's subscription here on the FF. ;D
Looking at the pictures it appears that you need to adjust the far tire so the band rides the side of it facing the teeth otherwise the crown of the tire will take the set out as mentioned before. GOOD LUCK
tm
I find it hard to adjust the band. I used a stick to check alighment prior to putting tension on. I then put tension on and adjust from there. I have only gotten close once to where you could turn the wheel both directions and the band tracked well. When I moved the wheels I fixed a small set back of the drive (fixed position) wheel. when I tension it tracks like it did before moving them.
I only have tach welds holding the fixed position wheel right now and could grind an move for the fourth time. When it was on the otherside I had one large bolt running through it so I could break the welds and swivil the wheel. Since I moved it I did not replace the bolt and have to use my minimal wood clamps.
I think I am going to try it for a bit and see if it is good enough. I could shave the tire a tiny bit.
With the 4 bolt tracking set up, it is hard to get it perfect. I also was working in the yard and did not measure like I did when I built it in the garage. I may have other issues like, will it be cutting 1 inch on both sides of the board. I am hoping the parts I did not move are good enough guides that it is still on.
I need to cut a log to see where I am. You are correct though. I couldn't tell which tire you were talking about but am assuming it is the tension tire with the blade to far back and the drive with the band a bit forward. All the instuctions I could find said you wanted to run on the crest, I can't seem to get both to do so perfectly and have had it apart a few times.
I did think the tips of the blade were in the air but in places it was just the tips.
Thanks
gww
Magicman
I will tell you when I put a log on it, however, it did cut better on the small board and I have high hopes. I think it was helpful joining the forum rather then just searching old post and trolling.
I put it off for some time but really needed the help and am thankful for what I recieved.
Thanks
gww
What are the diameters of the pulley on the tire and the pulley on the engine?
Joe
I think like 3.5 engine and 7 on tire. I didn't mesure exactly but figured a 2 to one ratio and believe that to be close.
gww
Good job, gww. Now you have something to work with. It's all mostly fiddling around and tweaking and adjusting from here till it's just right and then you're golden. Good news for today! A stiff frame/head/carriage is pretty important so hopefully you'll find some more material from salvaging and scavenging and add it on as you go. I try to always make triangles if possible when building crucial parts - it's one of the strongest and simplest shapes. Boxes or rectangles are just as good but use a little more material. Just be careful about butt or T welding something and have it hanging way out there and putting loads on it. Steel stretches and flexes more than you think! It always amazes me how much something will move with just a little heat in the wrong place.
Ox
Thanks for the help. The carrage assembly is pretty rickoty and it does "walk" a bit while pushing down the track. The head assembly is pretty decent untill you get to the tension slide bar. The drive bar might be flexing to but mostly the tension portion. I haven't quite got it in my head on how to beef that up. I added a few shims and braces today but don't see much of a differrance. I figured I built the wheel part as short as possible and that would help but it still makes the tire go out of line more the tighter I tention it.
I have more 2x2 metal to work with but not a tramendous amount. I thought about framing the carrage but had some binding going up and down and was afraid to make it too solid. I read on a differrent build where the motor waight being to one side coult be causing that and I might be safe in beefing the carrige up.
On the welding, I have seen people use wet rags to isolate their weld. Myself, I caught one of my lift pullies on fire twice while welding. I have heard some good pops which was probly another weld breaking some where. Used to have the same problims with soldering on plumbing. It is amazing my stuff has held as well as it has. I have built a couple wind turbines and I can't believe they are still holding up. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.
I have very poor work habits and am self taught and lazy enough that when something has worked I don't improve past that point.
I am learning a bit more thanks to guys like you that offer up help once in a while.
I muddle through and hopefully get something that works to my level of comfort.
I don't even need perfect boards (though the better is better.) This all started cause I am retired and am finding things that interest me that I can do on a limmited income. I built some bee hives with all my boards from other projects and what I could find at dads. I was on a bee forum and someone posted their Christmas gift and it was a sawmill. I was frustrated that I was having a hard time finding scrap to build a bit more and the sawmill looked like something I could do cheaply and now here we are.
If it is any consulation, the bee hive took about 3 times as long to build as I thought they would also. I think I mentioned earlier that I always over estimate my skill level.
I think I am close and now I need to cut another log to see where to go next.
I hope the next one doesn't all end up as firewood like the last one.
I do see a differrance in even the little bit I did today and am thankful for the help to get that.
Thanks
gww
I'm glad if anything that comes out of my head might help someone. You're very welcome if you were able to find any of my jibberish useful. If you have enough steel, making a 4 post carriage will eliminate any walking. It doesn't have to be as high as your main lift posts, just high enough to clear your slides at the highest you'll need to cut at. Come straight off to the back (or front) of the carriage and then straight down to your legs making a rectangle or square. Then run a piece crossways at the top between your two new posts, at the corners, and it'll be stiff and rugged. Look at a Linn Lumber mill for examples. I think there's a picture of one farther up in this topic. As for tensioning the blade and flexing problems with it - I'm not sure what's flexing but if you could run a piece across directly on the other side of your upright sliders it'll box that whole assembly together where you'll have compression and tension working with each other. Compression on your tire side and tension on the other side. It'll stiffen up nicely. It doesn't even have to be square tube. Flat bar or angle or channel, anything. It'll be in tension on the back side. Heck, a piece of rebar long enough would probably make a difference. Except I'd weld 2 or more together... Best thing is if you're happy with what you're getting out of your mill, that's great! It's yours and nobody did it but you. It's a beautiful thing. I've done many projects like that, making something out of nothing and been laughed at for it, being called a cobber and doing things half-hiney. But then I remind myself that these laughers are probably going home and doing nothing and making nothing. Hypocrisy is a pet peeve of mine. I'm glad you made what you did with what you had. It's American ingenuity. Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without - good creed to base your life upon!
ox
Thanks for the incouragement. Thanks for the suggestions. I really enjoyed the thinking in trying to do this (but would still like to get some good boards). I am glad you joined the forum when you did. I am pretty much a hermit and don't worry to much about what people think of me but always find it nice when I get help with my missadventures. My moto is to do what I want and how I want as long as I cause no harm to others.
I have a feeling that other things are about to get in the way of this project and this small burst of energy and pure consintration on this project is going to be interupted. Mushroom season, new grand baby, grass cutting and gardening. I will be trying to work some of your suggestions on strength into the mill but at a probibly slower pase and so my post on updates may slow down some. I do think you guys that have helped deserve to see the outcome of your help, I just don't know what the timeline for that will be.
I am sure I will also need more advice as I am out of my depth in experiance.
Thanks for the help.
gww
Your motto would do well if our out of control officials would follow it. This country was founded on live and let live but somehow with all the bleeding hearts out there it's all switched around and upside down. We would get along nicely as neighbors. I'm sure you'll get to the rest of your mill build when time allows. Food first, lumber later! I need to get started on my seedlings as well...
Man, the saw is cutting smooth. I haven't sawed so maby an 8 or 9 inch cedar log isn't much of a test. I still have problims with the cutting rails. After squaring the bark off, my board were 3/4 if an inch narrower in the middle. The boards for the length on thickness seem to be fairly consistant. I would say my cutting rails must be making a long consistatnt U shape. I haven't tried wide oak but I didn't narrow the guides to match the cut and am very happy with the fix that was provided here so far.
Thanks
gww
An easy way to check if your rails are nice and straight is to run a piece of string from the top of one end of the rail to the top of the other end. Hold it tight and then look down its' length. If the rail's not straight, it will be clearly visible, because the string will be perfectly straight.
Julian
Julian
Thanks for the tip.
gww
Hello everyone... First post...
I wanted to commit of the problem of the blade being pushed or pulled.
If you ever watched a large electric motor belt drive a piece of machinery you can see what happens to the belt.
I doesn't matter how tight you make the belt the side thats being pulled will be striate.
the side that is pushed or returned flops all over the place.
If you look at things like mowing decks the idler pulley is always on the return side of the belt.
Thats whee all the slack is. A bandsaw blade would be no different.
Not that you need to do anything about it if the saw runs good but you are running your blade speed around 7000-8000 feet per minute and ideally you want to be around 5500-6000. On larger logs that MAY be an issue with the engine bogging down. If it was mine I would leave it as it is unless it became an issue.
Also if you have problems with your belt slipping you can use idler pulleys to make it so the belt wraps more than half way around the one that is slipping. That way you get more contact area. I had to do that on my mill.
kb
QuoteIf you look at things like mowing decks the idler pulley is always on the return side of the belt.
Thats whee all the slack is. A bandsaw blade would be no different.
That figures. It is working good so far on the very small stuff, I may have to look at it when I try bigger. Thanks for the tip.
Joe
I knew when I built it it was a bit fast. I thought I would try it using what I had without buying stuff to do it right. It may end up being penny wise and dollar foolish. I don't think I will have logs that go 20 inch so maby I will get buy with it.
QuoteAlso if you have problems with your belt slipping you can use idler pulleys to make it so the belt wraps more than half way around the one that is slipping. That way you get more contact area. I had to do that on my mill.
I didn't want to buy the correct size pully which would accomplish what you are saying. I figured the worst that could happen is I would have to buy it later and I would just have a funny looking idel pully that I payed $24 for that nothing goes to. With kb's imput, it will no longer be as easy as buying a proper sized belt because the tension pully will still be on the feed side.
I am going to try it as it is on larger stock and am very happy with how it worked on the little cedar log I tried. Mostly I have my fingers crossed.
I did go out and use the string trick on the track and make the required adjustments. Some day I am sure it will have to be made solid but I still can't wait to try it like it is.
I may have got that done but got something in my eye and have some really funny things happening from that situation and am pretty much down and out today. The light from the computer is killing me and keeping one eye closed is not helping.
Thanks for the help.
gww
Hello Kbeitz, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum. 8)
Please add your location to your profile so that we will know. ;D
It sounds like you've gotten a little welders flash, GWW. Some time in a darkened room for you today. If it lasts more than 12 hours, or becomes very painful, you may need to see a doctor. In the future, make sure you wear a pair of safety glasses with UV-A/B protection as well as your welding mask.
cold wet cloth over your eyes will help too. Don't rub your eyes
interm
I thought about that as I went to bed and something seemed to be in my left eye. I got up the next day and worked half a day with no bad symtems. Then last evening it got pretty bad and I dug around a bit and used a bunch of drops. Today was really bad and besides tearing from the left eye I had a runny nose and slept all day. My daoughter is a eye doc but lives 2.5 hours away and is having a baby in two days. I thought about going to a doc, but they would probly just try and refer me to a specialist. I am going to give it anouther day or two and then I will be visiting my new grand baby and I do hope to see that. I haven't been to the doc in about 5 years (I am thankfull) and I hope time will bee enough.
I do weld with a harbor freight auto dark $29 dollar shield and the thought did cross my mind but one eye is definatly worse. Mom said put milk in it.
I hate going to the doc. I did find the other sysmtems troubling. Nose running, other eye and sleepyness. I just took two shots of wisky and will hopefully sleep all night and be better in the morning.
I sit or slept all day with my eyes closed.
Thanks for the tip on the sun glasses under the mask.
gww
QuoteIn the future, make sure you wear a pair of safety glasses with UV-A/B protection as well as your welding mask.
Note that he wasn't just suggesting "sunglasses". There is a difference.
Quote from: gww on April 12, 2015, 08:31:28 PM
interm
I thought about that as I went to bed and something seemed to be in my left eye. I got up the next day and worked half a day with no bad symtems. Then last evening it got pretty bad and I dug around a bit and used a bunch of drops. Today was really bad and besides tearing from the left eye I had a runny nose and slept all day. My daoughter is a eye doc but lives 2.5 hours away and is having a baby in two days. I thought about going to a doc, but they would probly just try and refer me to a specialist. I am going to give it anouther day or two and then I will be visiting my new grand baby and I do hope to see that. I haven't been to the doc in about 5 years (I am thankfull) and I hope time will bee enough.
I do weld with a harbor freight auto dark $29 dollar shield and the thought did cross my mind but one eye is definatly worse. Mom said put milk in it.
I hate going to the doc. I did find the other sysmtems troubling. Nose running, other eye and sleepyness. I just took two shots of wisky and will hopefully sleep all night and be better in the morning.
I sit or slept all day with my eyes closed.
Thanks for the tip on the sun glasses under the mask.
gww
I hope your eyes feel much better in the morning. If you have something in there, you should try to flush it out with cool clean water. It's uncomfortable but it works.
The safety glasses do not need to be expensive or even tinted. They just need to have the UV A/B rating to prevent welders flash (and stuff getting into your eyes). I wear them all day at work. They were a annoying at first, but once I learned to stop touching them and scratching them, I forgot they were there.
SHHHH...... A little secret.... I'm also building a sawmill on the sneak. Don't tell anyone :D
I've found that a bottle of saline solution that is found in the contact lens care area of a drug store works great for flushing crap out of your eyes. It isn't uncomfortable in the least tiny bit. It's actually quite soothing for an irritated eye. And it's cheap too! You can either drip it in or squirt it forcefully. Always works for me to get stuff out of my eyes. I buy the big bottle. Less than $5 last time I knew and it lasts for a long time.
Thanks for the comments. I am no means healed yet but this morning shows I may at least not be totaly incopassitated.
Thanks for the comments and suggestions.
QuoteSHHHH...... A little secret.... I'm also building a sawmill on the sneak. Don't tell anyone
Can't wait.
gww
I bought this hand held USB microscope off E-bay.
It's great for seeing if you got something in your eye.
I was going to post a picture of what I use but I get this message when trying to post a picture.
Selected album does not exist or you don't have permission to upload in this album
k
If you read my first post you will see I also was having difficalty posting a pic. I did figure it out by going from the attachment setting below the responce and then going to the open picture from here. I then in the new window hit new folder. Untill I typed the name of my new folder I could get nowhere. After I made a new folder I hit download file and then brouse and it worked. I didn't have to figure out how to resize my picture. I hope the rubbish writen above helps in some way.
Thanks for the effort. I still feal like something may be in my left eye but most of my troubles must have been from weld burn cause I am much better. I was able to drive 3 hours and see my brand new grandbaby born today. I couldn't have driven that far or at all just the day before.
Thanks
gww
Congratulations on the "new" family addition. smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup
Congratulations!
Yes, I am excited about it. I am already trying to teach her how to say " I like gandpa best".
Thanks
gww
Congratulations on the new family addition! The sooner she knows Gramps knows all the better off everyone will be. :D It sounds like you must have gotten flashed if your eye is getting better after a few days. I hear after the first flash troubles your eyes will become more sensitive and take longer to heal afterwards. Thankfully after dozens of accidental flashes I haven't had any troubles but I bet my day will come. Or not. Who knows? Life is funny that way.
ox
I was surpized my troubles started on the day I had did no welding. It had to be weld flash though cause nothing else really makes sense for taking out both eyes like that. I hope I don't become more sensitive cause hounestly I am not the most careful of a guy.
I agree that the sooner the grandkids all know I am smartest, the better it will be.
I am back home as of right now so time to find a log or a mushroom.
Thanks for the good wishes and hope your build is going well. (if I read the other post correctly)
gww
Congrats and best of luck on your mill
A friend of mine got flash burn too, hit her the day after welding...
Buzzy
Thanks
gww
I tried you picture upload procedure and now I get this message...
DO NOT USE THIS FACILITY FOR UPLOADING PHOTOS!
They dont make it easy posting picture on this fourm...
Did you review this tutorial? Pictures (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,61788.0.html)
If you are still having problems, then tell us where you are failing and someone will be happy to help.
Did you say your daughter is an EYE Doctor? Go see her, she'll love you coming. Taking a couple shots of whiskey was good too. But, go see your daughter and tell us what she says.
kb
If you click on the attachment it will say what you said but if you scroll down it will say "click here to add photos to post. Clicking that will open the gallery window and you can add a new gallery folder. After you type in the name of your gallery, you hit select album and pick the name that you typed for your gallery. Then select upload file. Then select brouse and load your picture. Then when it shows in your gallery hit add to post.
I at first thought it was pretty bad but when I didn't have to resize my photo I decided it was ok.
Again, I hope this helps. comunication is not my strong point.
On my mill. I had issues again today. I am pretty sure the waves I had in my cuts are due to a poor cutting rail. I broke a belt and had to finally buy a proper size belt. I feel kind of stupid cause I replaced an idler pully that had locked up so I could use the other belt. The proper size belt was $22, the idler pully I no longer need was $24. Now you guys know how I gethered enough stuff to build this thing. I end up with extra handy things cause my brain only works part time.
Cheers
gww
vally
The eye doctor is the one who had the baby. I figured she was busy enough at the moment. I am good enough now. I just need to keep in mind the safty glasses that where mentioned earlier when I start welding again. I have did some welding (I call it that) before and have never noticed an issue. I will probly do so again even if I haven't got the safety glasses though I am a bit scared after my recent experiance.
Thanks
gww
I should have explained the safety glasses. The UV A/B protection blocks almost all of the harmful radiation that causes welders flash. I imagine you can still get it if you're not careful, but the chances are greatly reduced.
julian
interm
Mostly I understood and magicman made sure there was no mistake. I don't know how careful I will be. I only go to the store on haft to basis and I don't always remember to look for things I need later. I have some safety glasses at home but am pretty sure they won't meet the standards. I have a feeling my cheap auto dark solar powered hood doesn't help but I don't plan on going back to the pure dark hood cause welding is so much easyer with the auto dark. I had too many days in a row of welding and don't see any really big jobs. I have a feeling it was a cumulative type thing.
I do appretiate the suggestion.
Thanks
gww
Trying again.........
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Hand_held_USB_Microscope.jpg)
The USB Microscope is also great for finding splinters .
The old eyes dont work so good anymore.
They are also very inexpensive.
Another trick I learned is if you get a peice of metal in your eye is to take one of E-bay super magnets and suck it back out of your eye.
Congratulations on the picture !!!
Also thanks for showing that USB Microscope. I had no idea ??
kb
Thanks for being persistant. Also thanks for posting the magnet trick. Magnets are expensive, I know as I have built a couple of wind turbines. I do however have a strong magnet around due to the above. Number one, why didn't I think of that? Number two, will I remember when needed?
Thanks for the suggestions.
gww
Thanks for the USB magnifier pic. Had no idea. Hope to see some pics of yours using the magnifier.
Wonder how it would work to get a digital pic of the end grain of wood prepared very smooth. Suspect great pic. Anyone done that?
I've used the magnet when getting steel piece in the eye. Wasn't a super magnet, but one I had nearby and could feel it pop out the steel piece and be attached to the magnet. One of those moments when a split second before it happens the brain says "put the safety glasses on!"
A good source of very powerful magnets is in a computer hard drive. If you don't want an old hardrive anymore, tear it apart and get two very powerful magnets.
I thought of the magnet trick a few weeks ago when I had what I thought was a piece of steel from grinding stick into my eyeball. Turns out a strong magnet didn't do a thing so I figured it was a piece of the grinding wheel. I tried every trick up my sleeve but to no avail. After a few hours I couldn't take the needle in the eye feeling any more so up to the hospital we go. A few drops to numb the eye, a drop of dye and a black light so they could see and a Q-tip to scrape it out. 1 1/2 hours total time to the tune of just under $3,700. This country is in dire straits...
Darned safety glasses! I live in the things all day and still get stuff in my eye, and they're the real close fitting type too! I have to learn to squint just a little bit when I'm grinding.
Hard to beat a flip down face shelf for grinding.
I really good strong magnets will also take metal splinters out of your hands.
This is a snap I took of a small chunk of metal in my eye.
There was no way I could see it without the scope.
I don't know what I'm doing...
I pretty good at working on computers but I spent 20 min trying to put in another picture.
I uploads fine... Just wont show.
Out of all the places I hand and post pictures this place the picture uploading sucks.
Very unfriendly...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Image5~3.jpg)
20 trys and I got it....
Wow.....
It may not be this site that is the problem... ;D just sayin.. Keep on workin the bugs out. ;)
You are gettin it.
I can "see" where that USB magnifier could be very handy to have. smiley_thumbsup
I'm guessing that's a picture of your eye with something foreign in it. Pretty impressive the magnification you can get at home with today's technology. Looks kinda like what I remember in my farmin' days when a fresh cow would cast her withers (uterus inside out on the floor) after freshening. Like some kinda demented pepperoni pizza... steve_smiley
Ok, I am on my third blade. I don't have the lumber to show for it.
I finally brought up another log. Some kind of oak. It had dead leaves on it I am guessing from last year. It was about 18 inches butt and 13 small side top. I cut it just under nine feet long. The next up small logg look doudy. This one looks solid.
I had to reset my blade guides wider and everything went down hill from there.
When I retensioned the blade the tracking was off and needed adjusted. I cut with the blade riding a bit forward on the wheels and the blade started diving.
Then my motor quit. It has started in no more then three pulls everytime. I took the breather off and the little black thing that the gas goes to and shook it and it is running great again but took some time and must have some dirt floting around or something.
I brought the log up with my dads kobota so that part worked great.
I tried to cut and the blade dived till it would almost stall the motor.
I put a new blade on and the saw cut like butter. I have made the track stronger by legg bolting it to some railroad like ties. Maby 6x8s or so.
The saw cut perfectly on getting rid of the bark on two sides then the Idler pully bracket broke and by the time I welded it back it was getting dark.
Now for the issue. I must be losing blade set fairly quickly on the tires. This is my third blade and I have barily cutt enough wood for one blade though I did have other issues. The last blade going so quick surprized me.
I still havn't got a board from the last log but the saw was cutting great and I really speeded up my cut without the motor being very stressed.
How can I adress the blade riding on the wheel and losing set?
The wheel have 37 pounds or presure in them now by my tire guage as far as it can be trusted.
Would putting 45 or 50 lbs in then round them up or do I need to find some way to shave them rounder?
Anyone have any thoughts?
Thanks
gww
gww- You might try re-reading my reply #14
Have you examined the blade to see if the set is noticeably different on one side from the other? It may not be that the bandtires are pushing out the set. Possibly your blade roller guides are not aligned correctly. A search should yield some threads about guide alignment.
Not disagreeing with you MikeZ, just want to eliminate the roller guide alignment variable.
That's ok. it's just my 2 cents worth of been there done that. I originally thought having new radial tires would negate this problem but it didn't. The reason I went with tires was 1/4 of cost versus steel band wheels. Reading his posts is like reliving my experience. Used three brand new Lennox bands cutting maybe ten feet. Got rid of some rubber where the teeth ride and lots of troubles left.
Mike
Just how did you trim where the teeth were riding? What did you use to do it? I saw a you tube vidio where a guy said he used a hand planer to garentee his wheels were true round.
I did remember the post and knew I may have to do that, I am not sure how yet.
Changing the drive wheel did seem to help with the other blade cut.
Fishp..
The blade guide have turned out to be very fickle on this mill. My desine sucks but I still don't see a better way to do it. I will admit that I may have ruined a blade while messing with the blade guides. If that is not the case that I ruined the blade that way then it has to be the tire. I put the last new blade on and did not readjust the guides and it cut perfectly. I did install my guides poorly however, which is why I couldn't just move it sideways when I widened the cut area. I didn't get it welded square so every adjustment in or out means also doing a whole adjustment. I also only have a bottom plate on one blade guide and it is a bit long as the gullot of the blade is actually inside the bar of metal. It needs shaved shorter. My last cuts where really good just like when I used the other blade while new on the two little cedars.
I will say that I don't know what I am doing and what tha cause and effect is. I find with four traking adjustment bolts, that I turn the wrong one the wrong way more times then not, so getting the tracking correct is a time consummer. I had it tracking correctly with no adjustment for ten times and then I greased the bolt and it must have turned easier cause today I had to adjust tracking after tensioning. I don't discount any suggestion cause I know I am green.
Thanks
gww
Ps mike I just moved back to MO after spending the last four years in kokomo IN. been back here for going on two years.
Fishp...
To answer your question, I did look at the blade but couldn't see a differance in set but I don't own a caliper guage and would not trust my eyes.
gww
gww-I just typed for ten minutes, went to post and I had timed out.Try again. I'm about 1 1/2 hrs north of Kokomo. I bolted each rim to drive axle and used a cutoff tool from lathe. A sharpened pc of steel would work. Clamped a steady rest from framework. My tires had a center rib about 3/4" wide on them so I went to next open groove where teeth would be. Having tires spinning(not fast) ease tool into rubber slowly and carefully. Widened 1/4" and 1/4" deep. Make sure you can hold onto your tool securely. !?!?!? Lots of luck
Mike
Thanks
gww
Somewhere back in the forum I recall seeing a homebuilt mill with the same pneumatic tire problem and they used a big file held against the tire to shave off a bit. I wouldn't get in the line of fire of anything you use to shave the tires.
I made one of these to clamp to the blade to make sure the blade is level to the deck, I run trailer tires on mine and have not had a problem with set. The clamp portion is a piece of 14 gauge square tubing and I gut the one side off leaving the other three, then I welded a nut to the bottom with a bolt going through it to clamp to the blade. I then cut the slots and slide in a 36" metal measuring stick. I then measure both ends of the measuring stick down to the deck and adjust the rollers as needed, this way you can level the blade with the deck and know it correct. Also if you are trying to push the blade thru the cut instead of pulling it, I think you are going to have problems, as the blade heats it will lose tension and cause the problem to get worse.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11029/Leveling.jpg)
Fish and gf
Thanks for the ideals.
I cut that log today. It was 18 inch butt and thirteen inch top 8.5 feet long.
I did no changes on the mill and I am sure I will pay with a short lived blade. I do notice my guide bearings are freezing up every so often and I an shooting them with w-d and freeing them and cutting some more. I know not Ideal either and more to adress.
I got 9 ten and a quarter inch boards. This would be close to sixty board foot wouldn't it?
I did find one curious thing. I turned the boat winch two full turns down and 7 of the boards came out exactly 1/16th under one inch both sides. The last two cuts came out:
1. was 1/16th under the other seven.
2. was exactly 3/4 of an inch.
I don't get this. They were good in every other aspect.
I have found that I can only cut down to 3.5 inches left on the deck. I was trying to get to 1 inch but my doggs and the nuts on the blade guide with the bottom plate stop me. I countered this buy taking the bark off of one side, flipping the log 180 degrees and taking the bark off the other side and then just leaving a bark side down for the bottom that I am cutting towards. This still leaves a pretty thick piece of bark that in perfect conditions I would have got close to one more almost 8 or 9 inch board if I could cut low enough.
The boards seemed perfect in every way though it did seem to cut a little slower at the end. It could be changes in the wood or my imagination or I could be dulling my blade quickly. I want to make improvements but the mill was cutting the best I have ever had it do and I was scared to touch anything so dicided I would use it this way, sacerfice another blade and count what I got out of it and adjust when I have to change.
Gf
You mention feed rate. I was going slow and not taxing the engine due to intimidation but some said you are just dulling the blade if you go to slow. I was now speeding up a bit trying to keep the engine a bit under load. I still go pretty slow but am mostly listening to the motor. It still isn't real fast, but a bit better and fast enough for me. I was trying to watch chip size but it all looks like powder to me. I have some hitches in my feed due to welds being a bit to close to the wheel bolts on the carrige. It causes some walking and I can't belive it doesn't affect the cut but it doesn't seem to.
I just lined up the guides by eye and it doesn't seem to matter what I do it seems to cut square with the track. It will seem like one side lifts when I start the band and sometimes when cutting it seems to walk but the cuts came out perfect.
It always seemed to do mostly fair side to side. I do notice after the cut that the drive wheel side of the band is a blade width lower then the cut. I was lifting it and pulling it back over the cut so I could keep consistancy with my two turns of the boat winch so I could test consitancy of my using it to measure board thickness. Sorta just a test to see if I could get by without a ruler to measure cuts. I don't get the last two board being different. They were perfect in every other way. Does my harvest from the log seem about normal?
I guess I need some more logs to see how long the blade last so I can compare it to any fix I might do and the next blade after said fixes.
I was happy with the quality and will only be cutting for myself so may not need the perfection of a production mill. I could never cut for anyone else cause I don't even understand the lingo. 4/4, 8/8 ect. I understand 2x4, 2x6, 1x12 and 4x4 which is probly what I will try for in any project I do.
Any more comments or suggestions?
Thanks very much for the help.
gww
PS I am getting some sap build up on the blade and soap and water does not seem to phase it.
Most like photos.
Mill track strengthening
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000417.JPG)
what I cut today
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000418.JPG)
stait edge.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000419.JPG)
Left over from cutting deck due to only being able to cut lowest 3.5 inches high.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000420.JPG)
Do the saw marks from the drive wheel side have any meaning as far as adjustments go?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000421.JPG)
As you can see my text compared to picture is in wrong place. I couldn't see the picture while adding the text and now you know how long my memory is.
Thanks
gww
gww
You can always modify your post and fix whatever is wrong. Can move the text or move the pics.
Just use the Preview button and see what is where, and have it end up where you want it to end up. ;)
beenthere
Believe it or not I did use preview before I started typing text, I just didn't use it after typing to see what I had did.
It ok, I figure most will get the picture and I had a hard enough time the first time.
I needed to run then and now I am not ambitious enough to change it.
Thanks
gww
Gf
It took me a bit to get how your picture and description worked but I think I have it. You use two measuring sticks. One in the clamp and one to measure the one in the clamp, in front of the clamp and behind the clamp to the deck. If this sound correct then I have it.
Thanks
gww
@gww (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=29533) @kbeitz , GF's illustration shows perfectly how the alignment procedure is setup. The parallel stick across the top of the blade doesn't necessarily have to have any type of measuring graduations on it, but a metal ruler works great. Actually, Woodmizer and Cook's sell a metal blade guide apparatus that looks like GF's. I have one or two myself. The long parallel piece just exaggerates the amount the blade is angled from parallel to the logbed. I am sure there is an image of this somewhere on the forum. In any event, if you take a level or any straight edge and lay it on the log bed similar to how a log would lay, then put the GF's blade alignment tool on the blade directly over the level. Next measure the distance from each end of the blade alignment tool straight down to the level. If they are the same front and back, then your guides are holding your blade parallel. Do this near both blade guides to make sure both are aligned properly. Clear as mud?
gww,
RE: your final board thicknesses:
You are dropping the head down with the winch, correct? If you look at your cable, I'm willing to bet that your spool was nearly full when you started. As you unwound it, the first 7 boards used the cable from the same level on the spool. Then the 8th board was split - about ½ from that layer and ½ from the next layer down. The next layer down is smaller in diameter so a little less cable to run out (and the head didn't drop as far). The 9th board was cable from this new layer (full two revolutions) and a bit less cable payout, hence the thinner board.
fishpharmer
Both gww and kbeitz are already in the discussions in this thread, so no need to use the @ function to call them in to your post. Causes the boss some grief that he doesn't need, and we don't want to lose the @ function as it is great to tap someone who is not participating in the thread. Just FYI.
ljohnsaw
That was a good catch and explanation of the apparent problem.
Quote from: beenthere on April 24, 2015, 01:46:12 AM
fishpharmer
Both gww and kbeitz are already in the discussions in this thread, so no need to use the @ function to call them in to your post. Causes the boss some grief that he doesn't need, and we don't want to lose the @ function as it is great to tap someone who is not participating in the thread. Just FYI.
ljohnsaw
That was a good catch and explanation of the apparent problem.
It had me confused... Got an E-mail saying I got tagged. I had no idea what that meant . I got it covered now.
Thanks beenthere.
I could not agree more with the comment below.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on April 23, 2015, 11:55:29 PM
gww,
RE: your final board thicknesses:
You are dropping the head down with the winch, correct? If you look at your cable, I'm willing to bet that your spool was nearly full when you started. As you unwound it, the first 7 boards used the cable from the same level on the spool. Then the 8th board was split - about ½ from that layer and ½ from the next layer down. The next layer down is smaller in diameter so a little less cable to run out (and the head didn't drop as far). The 9th board was cable from this new layer (full two revolutions) and a bit less cable payout, hence the thinner board.
Quote from: gww on April 23, 2015, 05:48:39 PM
Gf
It took me a bit to get how your picture and description worked but I think I have it. You use two measuring sticks. One in the clamp and one to measure the one in the clamp, in front of the clamp and behind the clamp to the deck. If this sound correct then I have it.
Thanks
gww
I think you have it, the bolt and bracket are only to clamp the metal edge to the top of the blade firmly while doing the measurements, you could easily cut the slots with a bimetal sawzall and weld the top of the cut back shut.
Ok guys, it looks like I got behind on my responces back to everyone. Just know that I have read the descriptions you guys have provided and it has impoved my understanding of how things work. Looks like I am going to have to install a cutting guide after all. Thanks for taking the time to help a dummy, it is appretiated.
I am impressed with the comunication skills and the fact that you took the time to help.
Thanks
gww
gww - try not to be too hard on yourself. You aren't a dummy. You started your project without much research at all, right? You made a mill that would somewhat saw lumber. There aren't very many people in this world (proportionally) that have built their own sawmill from scratch and can make useable lumber. After some info and research you fixed a few things and now your mill is better, right? You're doing just fine. These guys are the best and they are great in communicating their thoughts simply and effectively. I sometimes know what I want to say but can't get it down on paper without sounding like a mental midget with random thoughts all over the board. Thankfully we have these eloquent men around. And a big cheer for Jeff, the founder of this forum, for starting and keeping it going! I can easily say it's the best if not one of the top three I've ever read with the politeness and knowledge available. - Ox
Quote from: Ox on April 24, 2015, 09:36:27 AM
gww - try not to be too hard on yourself. You aren't a dummy. You started your project without much research at all, right? You made a mill that would somewhat saw lumber. There aren't very many people in this world (proportionally) that have built their own sawmill from scratch and can make useable lumber. After some info and research you fixed a few things and now your mill is better, right? You're doing just fine. These guys are the best and they are great in communicating their thoughts simply and effectively. I sometimes know what I want to say but can't get it down on paper without sounding like a mental midget with random thoughts all over the board. Thankfully we have these eloquent men around. And a big cheer for Jeff, the founder of this forum, for starting and keeping it going! I can easily say it's the best if not one of the top three I've ever read with the politeness and knowledge available. - Ox
I'll second that statement. This forum is pretty great! A lot of good people sharing their knowledge and experience with inexperienced folks such as myself. Thanks Jeff (all of you, really)
Julian
Ox
Ok I am not a dummy, I just make a lot of dumb moves. I am with you on the disjointed thoughts and I can't spell to boot. I think you have did pretty well in you comunications to me. I do agree that some poeple just have a talent for using words to draw a picture. That talent is really inhanced when they also know what they are talking about and are willing to share. I may have muddled through some of my problims if I didn't get so frustrated that I just give up, However joining here has speeded up the problim solving and my chances of success. I again thank everyone who is helping. I am kind of a loner but this proves that it is easier when poeple help each other. I hope at some time I am abit of help to someone. Surely a subject will come up some day where that is the case.
Thanks
gww
I too am kind of a loner. So I understand you. I'm not good face to face with people. When I can type I can be slow and re-read and re-think. I have all the time in the world to not sound like a stammering fool. And you WILL be helpful to someone down the line. One of the best things to share is your experience in what works and what doesn't work for you, your machine and your situation. Other peoples' results may vary but in providing your experiences the other people can put it all together and at least get an idea about what may be best for them. Just recently in this post I remember me and another member had different experiences regarding blade tooth set and trailer/car tires. He had the problem of the tires taking the set out of the teeth and I've never had or seen that problem. Just goes to show, ya know? :)
VERY well said there Ox 8)
smiley_thumbsup
Quote from: ljohnsaw on April 23, 2015, 11:55:29 PM
gww,
RE: your final board thicknesses:
You are dropping the head down with the winch, correct? If you look at your cable, I'm willing to bet that your spool was nearly full when you started. As you unwound it, the first 7 boards used the cable from the same level on the spool. Then the 8th board was split - about ½ from that layer and ½ from the next layer down. The next layer down is smaller in diameter so a little less cable to run out (and the head didn't drop as far). The 9th board was cable from this new layer (full two revolutions) and a bit less cable payout, hence the thinner board.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Thats always the problim with advice. It could be misunderstood what was being ask or the asker left out an important fact that may change the advice. I am always a bit scared that I missed some important fact and therefore jump to the wrong conclusion.
Sometimes I agree with the advice but can't find the time or put enough importance on it due to only having so much time to do things. It doesn't mean I don't listen or apretiate what was given, It only means in the end I am the one that has to do it. I like hearing it all and then I decide what I am capable of doing. Never do I try to be disrespectful when getting advice. I plan on mudling through and doing this and doing that till I get it good enough for my needs. It may never end up as good as some guys would need.
I know the above is a lot of gobbly gock but I want the advice even if I never get to implimenting it.
I have joined a couple of forums and it goes against my grain to do so and most times I am in a hard place and don't know where to turn. In almost every case I have actually been helped. It hurts my pride to need it but I am always thankful when it works out well.
I have picked through the responces and have directions to try and will keep trying them one or two at a time till I get it good enough for my needs and or run out of time or die.
I also will help someone and say in advance if I cost someone hardship I will have been trying to help, so use your own common sence when getting advice from me.
gww
Well my mill went to crap again today. I started another log and it cut great while taking the bark off but I lost the guide bearing that had been freezing up. The saw was cutting slower and then the bearing. I freed it up and tried to push through another cut and the cut was looking worse. The top of the cut board was black so I am guessing the blade was getting hot. It didn't really feel hot but the bearing did.
I do think my guides are killing me but I also wonder about the trees I am cutting. I cut a dead tree again and had to cut it at 8' 11" to get to solid wood. Above that was spongy. My blades seem to be going all at once when they go. They cut and then they dont.
I spent another 30 bucks on bearings to mess with and I am going to try a new configureation and then I am going to call myself stupid for not just buying the cook roller bearings and being done with it. I would have liked to have found some way of fixing with local stuff cause I am impatent and when something breaks I like to work on it right then and not have to wait 3 days on the mail. I find the same thing with my zero turn mower belt cause it is so long. I will go to 3 places and they will all say we can have that here tommorrow and I always say I think I am going to go some place else and check. I have always been able to get one the same day with enough running.
I Looked as close as I could at the blade and it almost looked like the set was of on the side that was not running on the tires. It also looked to me like maby there was a little rounding of the points of the blades. It was dusk so I will check again tommorrow on what it really looks like.
I changed the soap and water flow and made it heavier.
I had the blade guide bearing issue.
I had the debarking issue of a fairly dead tree.
I am not sure of the cause and affect of each of those things and would have liked to have only the effects of one issue to think about.
This is turning out to be pretty hard. I have other things to do but only want to work out the issues on the saw. Also, but it is hard to tell, I had one wave in my last bark cut and so I was trying to cut a quarter inch to straiten it and it felt as if the blade was diving but it came out on top of the log. I then added another quarter inch cut and the blade seemed to be diving but it actually after the first bit cut pretty strait from then on.
I used bearings that were used for my blade guides. I considered them practice to see if the would work and then I could get more if they did but failed later. I used roller skate wheels in the very beginning. I wonder if any of the tractor places sell bearings like cooks. I don't want to be unfair as I know cook is maby a sponcer here but it would be nice to come up with something that is kept in stock localy for an instant gratification purchase. Are most of my problims my guides? If it is my guides can one pass with miss alined guide cause compleete blade failure. My last blade failed compleetly but the new blade cut one log perfectly with no adjustment from a setting the other would not cut from.
The tire could be affecting set and I will look closer again tommorrow but tonight it sure seemed like the set running on the wheel was better then the otherside. I am going to put it by a new blade and compare.
Is cutting only dead trees so far hurting my assesment or a no factor. The part I cut still had a redish pinkish hue to it. It had a small bit of lose bark but not all over.
I believe the blade and the guide going at the same time points to the guide but I am not positive.
The mill seems like a peice of crap at this time and is bugging the heck out of me. I did see the potential in nine boards I cut but have to stop the breakdowns and ruining of good boards. I would have got 5 or so 2x12 boards if I could just keep it cutting.
Ok I almost feel better after my rant.
Thanks for reading.
gww
Thanks
Quote from: gww on April 24, 2015, 11:23:05 PMIt also looked to me like maby there was a little rounding of the points of the blades.
Dull blades will not saw. I would not attempt to address your other issues.
Thanks magicman
I am just trying to figure out what is dulling the blade after just one, I think my math is correct, sixty board foot log.
gww
One log should not dull a blade so the obvious question is "was the log clean"? Just a little dirt is too much dirt. :-\
When you push into a log, is the blade being pushed back too far into the guides where one or both of the guides is taking the set of the teeth out? Like MM said, a little dirt is alot and one rock or hardware strike and it's all over for a sharp blade. Maybe the tires themselves are taking the set out? Just take a grinder and a steady hand and grind a very shallow channel around the tire where the teeth ride. Take some chalk and mark the tire first then spin it by hand. It won't take much. I wouldn't hold the grinding wheel on edge but flat and using just the top of the arc of the wheel as if you're trying to flatten a weld bead. But you said it looks like the teeth on the side away from the tires looked duller than the side towards the tires. I'm running out of suggestions. You didn't accidentally hit the bunk dogs or clamps, did you? All it takes is a slight graze on anything metal and the blade is toast.
gww
Try running your saw with a sharp blade without pushing it through any wood, and see how long the blade lasts. Just thinking it may not be the wood doing the deed.
I agree with BT's last post on letting it run not in wood and seeing what it does.
Something I think I caught in one of you responses was you had added some grease to one of your adjustments and then it went out of adjustment on you. Question, do you have clamps, bolts or jam nuts you loosen before making adjustments and then tightening these up again after your adjustments locking everything in place? If not I would sure think that just the vibrations from the engine alone will let it re-adjust itself.
Something else to think on a bit. You say you are sawing dead logs, are these logs partially rotted out in spots? I know when I had my mill with a 6.5 HP engine on it that I had to watch my log for knots and slow down a bit or the blade would definitely act differently. If your going from some soft stuff to solid wood it's going to act differently also.
Ok,
Log cleanliness. It was muddy out but I did not drag the log. I carried it with a tractor bucket. On the end that had a small amount of dirt. I took a wire brush and brushed it the best I could. I don't trust old trees. I had a pine tree die and eventually fall and It dulled my saw almost immediatly I never did get that tree compleetly cut up and I still have a 6' stump sitting down in my wood.
I also may be going through the bark to many times due to wanting to get the most wood posible. I look at the log and thing I am deep enough but then come our on top of the bark and have to cut again.
The guides. I don't think so. I had a bottom piece of steel on one side that could have maby been long enough to take the set out. Since the bearing went out on that side I have now replaced that guide but have not used it yet. The other guide and new one should hit the back bearing just before getting to where it could affect set. My guides suck but I don't think are taking out the set.
I can do the grinder thing to the tire as I now have to change blades again. This is my fourth blade and my 6th log though two of the logs were 9 inch cedars. The three oaks were all about 13 to 14 inch logs on the small end. I only really have 9 boards that I am proud of. My first boards were a test and was only about a 6 foot log. They were cut pretty good but not very uniform thicknesses. My second log, I cut the boards into firewood due to wavyness of cut. I changed the drive wheels and cut the cedar. They would have been ok but my track was making a u shape. I am drying them and that is not the saws fault but they did use a blade up cutting them.
I fixed the track and got nine boards and the bark off this log and the blade was gone again.
I did speed up the feed rate when I put this last blade on. I can slow it down when I put a new blade on and see what happens. Man it cut good for a little bit.
I looked at the set again today and I just can't tell. They look ok buy eye but who knows.
I have not made the blade leveling guage to check my guide levelness yet.
I thank you for your suggestions and as soon as it stops rainning its back to the grind.
Before I go out I am going to watch the blade folding vidio again cause they are starting to pile up.
I will let you know what I did and did not get done and wether it helps.
Again, thanks
gww
Quote from: Magicman on April 25, 2015, 07:04:08 AM
Quote from: gww on April 24, 2015, 11:23:05 PMIt also looked to me like maby there was a little rounding of the points of the blades.
Dull blades will not saw.
If the teeth tips were rounded, then something did it other than just sawing a couple of logs. Maybe you are not getting the teeth tips sharp?
Justallen
I had read on here that the proper feed speed was just taxing the motor and too slow dulled the blade for less wood cut. I was feeding slow and dulling blades so I tried speeding up. I don't mind going slow and maby even before I wasn't slow enough.
I did have a bearing locking up and I sprayed it with wd for a few more cuts and it disinigrated.
My guide bearings are made with water pipe. differrent size black iron. I have all the adjustments I should need but every one of the adjustments means adjusting every place. I have drilled and tapped holes through the pipe and welded nuts to the bolts out side those holes due to the swoftness of black iron. I do have to be sure when tightening that the adjustment I am going for isw not affected. I have used a couple of bearing setups at the end of the pipe but the basics have stayed the same.
Thanks
gww
Magicman
I may have been wrong about the rounding of the teeth. I looked again in full daylight and did not see that. I did however put a differrent bearing set up on the side that went bad and about 30 percent through a cut it started pouring rain and I quit. I was only cutting about 1/4 deep to see how the new guide reacted. I can say though that the blade is toast as it is cutting so slow you can't even see it throwing sawdust.
Thanks
gww
Ps I just take the blades out of the box and put them on. They are new cook blades. I haven't graduated to sharpining yet though the way it going I am going to be out of blades and need to sharpen.
gww
To be frank, I think you have some serious problems affecting your blades, and going slow, sawing dead, dry wood, and/or sawing through bark are not the problems.
There is something you are missing, and sooner or later it will boil to the top and be recognized.
But continually burning up new blades is like having a short in an electrical system but just keep sticking in a new fuse to see it blow again. Need to find the "short/s" in your sawmill first.
Don't mean for this to be offensive to you, as your tenacity to build your own and sticking to it is very commendable.
beenthere
I agree with you. I think it might be guides but when I think about it I can't see where my guides are doing anything differrent then others except they are not lasting as long. I am burning up bearings. I would hate to spend $200 and then trash the saw anyway cause it didn't fix it. I have made a change of some kind every time I change a blade. Changed the drive wheel then put a new blade on. Also strengthened the track. I put another blade on today. I did grind the tires and they looked pretty rounded where the set would sit but when I tensioned they ended up looking about the same. I used a cutting wheel edge on the angle grinder and it doesn't take it off to fast. I have some 35 grit sandpaper wheels that I will try on it next.
I am burning out bearings on my guides right and left but I don't think they ever get quite deep enough to reach the set of the blade. I may be compensating for squareness of the wheels to the track and I guess I need to make the stait edge clamp and measure with no guides on though I would think that the guides would help compensate since I am using down pressure.
I did not change the idler pully to the return portion of the belt and maby I am getting some slipage. I could see this causeing wavy cuts but I don't see that as dulling the blade and I get strait cuts in the beginning although my last cut today with the new blade had one wave on the nondrive side a little after the beginning of a cut.
My issue is having no previous experiance and problims using a band saw, I don't know the cause and affect. I am making all the mistakes at once. Its like a poker game when you are pot committed. You got enough in the pot, a start of a hand and sombody bets. You either throw in or put more money in the pot to try and save what is already their.
The saw looks like it has potential but you are right, It defianatly has a short and I need more then a fuse. I put my own solar and wind in and I used to have rental properties and wiring problim solving can be hard.
Throw in the towel or have as much in it as if I would have bought a new one.
What kills blades?
Thanks
gww
Justallen
A quote from your post.
QuoteSomething I think I caught in one of you responses was you had added some grease to one of your adjustments and then it went out of adjustment on you. Question, do you have clamps, bolts or jam nuts you loosen before making adjustments and then tightening these up again after your adjustments locking everything in place? If not I would sure think that just the vibrations from the engine alone will let it re-adjust itself.
I answered your post with something differrent then you ask. You were refering to when I greased my tension bolt and then added more tension then I had thought. The tensioning of the band makes the band wheels flex towards each other and when I added more tention then I had before, I had to readjust the band tracking. I do not have a locking nut on the tension bolt but do not believe it is wavering from where I put it. I have looked at the wheel flexing and have not come to a good solution to beef it up. I can't believe it even flexes like it does. The wheel bearing is welded directly to the head bar, so it couldn't have been made any shorter.
Thanks
gww
Kinda of an odd idea. But,go to a lumber yard but 4-5 2X6's put them all on your mill side by side and saw them. No big knots,no rot,no bark. I would think if you just sawed a ½" at a time that should answer some questions or bring more up. ;D Good luck.
Are you certain that your blade guides/blade are staying absolutely level with the sawmill bed when the blade is tensioned for sawing?
Magicman
QuoteAre you certain that your blade guides/blade are staying absolutely level with the sawmill bed when the blade is tensioned for sawing?
I am not certain. I was doing it by eye then I used a bubble level the best I could. I am going to have to do the strait edge on the blade and measure now. I have not did that yet cause the mill cut good till the bark was off the second log and the guide bearing went bad and I made a differrent guide, tried to grind a bit off the tire and then put the new blade and guide and set it by eye and tried a cut to straiten the log from the last blade. I put the guide on the old blade and tried to level it with a bubble level just to see if it would cut or not. It actually didn't do to bad straitness wise, it just took a really really long time and I had to quit in the middle due to really hard rain.
I do set the blade guides while the saw is at tension and then spin it by hand to make sure of the tracking. I can't do it at half tension like i seen on a manufactuers vidio cause I am never sure of my blade tracking til fully tensioned.
Would blade flutter affect sharpness or just cut? I also think my blade speed is on the high side but I am not sure. briggs and straton run about 3400 rpm but I read somewhere that the tiller motors are 1700 hundred rpm motors so I am not sure. 1700 hundred would be correct or a little slow. 3400 would be fast.
Thecfarm
To your point, the log I am trying to cut is 12 inches wide. I wanted to make 2x12s but am in the prosses of making more fire wood. The oak that cut perfectly was a 10.25 inch cut and the cedars where 6 inch cuts.
Thanks
gww
gww, I really feel the first thing you should go back to is strengthening up the system that your wheels are mounted to and your tensioner. If you can make the exact same thing and put it behind your uprights and weld ribs between the two I feel it would either decrease or stop the flexing you say it has going on with your wheels when you tension it. If your wheels are flexing it sure seems your blade would track differently on your wheels, which would also put it in a different spot on your guides and possibly be the reason for burning them up.
Another random thought, the next time you have the blade off you might check your wheel bearings.
Keep going Buddy, you'll get it working.
gww,what I meant was,it would take away the problems of,is it the log or the mill. Cutting lumber,wood,with no big knots,no rot,no bark,would take away a list of "could it be". Even 2 2x4 side might give you an idea about where the problem is,maybe. I have no idea if it would help or not.
But I did see this in your reply.
"The oak that cut perfectly was a 10.25 inch cut and the cedars were 6 inch cuts."
Something must be right with your mill. :)
Racers and tractor pullers do a lot of tire shaping and have developed the tools for it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tire+grinding+disc&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rtw8VZqiLsikoQT1mIGoCg&ved=0CFcQ7Ak&biw=1329&bih=633
I agree with justallan1 in that the saw frame should be stiffer.
One way to go after a problem like this is to reduce the number of variables. I would remove the guides and work to get the blade tracking well without them. In my opinion a band saw should be able to do light cutting with the blade running on just the wheels. The guides are there to improve performance not to fix a problem.
But then I do not have any experience with car/trailer tires as saw wheels.
Just noticed your comments on engine speed.
You need to find out just what you blade speed is, if you have or know someone who has a non contact RPM meter use it on the band wheel.
If you are running the band at double the speed it should be that could account for almost all your problems. In the best of conditions guide bearings are often running close to there max designed speed as is doubling that speed will do them in quick.
Ok I have read the above comments. I believe ox might have jinxed me. He ask about the blade running to far back and the guide taking off set. I ruined anouther blade but this time I know what happened and I did it to myself. The nut came lose on my new guide and the pionts for the blade ran on the bearing. It had a self locking nut. I double nutted it and it came lose again. This is not something that caused my other problims but shows that I am a crappy builder. Thanks ox :D :D.
I did grind more off the tires today. Andre, your link did not work but it could be from my side, I am running satalite internet.
I agree that I need to beef up the frame. It is harder to do then just adding a mirror behind it unless I buy some more metal that will slide on each other cause the weigth set metal and orange stuff was one of size and can't be matched. I am going to start with just one 2x2 square on the frame right below the motor mount and some blocks of metal in weak areas. This will make my deep cuts a bit smaller and make it harder to adjust my guides. I will also look and see if anything can be added to the front. The non movible frame will be easier to beef up if I have to go that far cause I made the saw taller then it needed to be and have open space to work with.
I also am going to break down and buy some cook guide bearings. I don't know how far to go in that Ie whether I buy the bearing for $52 each the bearing and adjustment for $104 each or the bearing and adjustment with bottom plate for $200+ each. I don't know if I need the zerk bolt and key also to make it work and have a hard time knowing exactly what I need without seeing one.
It is hard to know how much stuff to do cause I am a minimalist and it did cut good some. I am not going into sawmilling but would like the bare minimum of it working to use some of my trees and keep up with my projects.
I think the wheel bearings are ok.
I think trying to get it good without guide bearings is a fair suggestion. I want guide bearings but it would be nice to start correct before adding them.
I did understand the bought lumber cutting. I don't discount the suggestion but believe that will be for later as I have some issues now that can be seen already to work through.
I thank everyone for their suggestions. I really thought I had it when I changed the drive wheel and had that one small good run.
Thanks
gww
Gww, just a suggestion. I've been watching this thread from the beginning. Before you tear any more hair out, why don't you try getting together with another band sawmill owner and discussing his mill with him? Home built or factory doesn't matter much. You would get a better idea of what it takes for a mill to work correctly and learn where your stumbling blocks might be. You could also get some hands-on experience with a working mill to see how it should cut, and why it does so. I'd expect there are plenty of people within a reasonable distance who'd be happy to help you out.
Nomad
Their might be but plenty around but I wouldn't know where to look. I did have a guy that I rode to work with that has some kind of sawmill who said he would saw logs for such and such price if I needed it and I might be close enough for him to show me. I really don't know anyone else and have not approched him and don't even know if his is circular or band. It is something that doesn't cost much to check. I don't think he has cut much cause the last time he called me on accident I mentioned it and he said he needed to start doing something. I really don't know how a guy would find others. I had the same issue with bees. I have only met one guy who is helpfull but I know there are many probly around.
Funny thing, the bee guy and the mill guy are friends. Me and the mill guy retired from the same place. I will call him. I hate to bother poeple who don't volinteer. I talked to the bee guy but he did volinteer and I didn't push.
Thanks
gww
Ps I really am kind of a hermit, I don't have a very big circle of friends and I guess I am a bit selfish. I really only go to mom and dads fairly regular. It is sort of a gethering place for my bothers and sisters and the rest of the time it is my children and there children coming here. I believe I almost have a mental problim, cause I will look for hours for a bolt rather then go to the store and get one quickly.
You oughta see all the jinxing I do to myself. If it weren't so funny it would be sad. Or is it the other way around? Hmmm... At least you caught a problem and that's one more thing to cross of your list of things to fix, right? :) Each time you get closer and closer to getting done, so it's a good thing.
Ox
I think I mentioned it before. I am always overconfident in my projects. I look at it and it looks easy. This is not the first time I have build crappy stuff. I helped dad fix a leaky washing machine hook up. The kind built into a wall. I tried to take it lose at the wall then pulled a wood floor so we could get in the crawl space then put the floor back and cut a hole in the wall and fixed it. I had to cut the wall in the end and it would have been a 15 minute job but I took 4 hours to fix it. Also 3 trips to town to end up with the correct parts. That is the differance between a learned profesional and a screw up like me. I usually get it done but I definatly take the long road.
You have to laugh cause crying doesn't help and it is funny anyway.
I do the best I know how and just keep muddling. Believe it or not, dad was still happy with me.
Cheers
gww
gww - By golly, we could be brothers. We sound exactly alike! However, I've found that stubborness and patience will take care of most trials and tribulations. If we just keep pecking away at something it'll come 'round eventually. You'll get your mill just where you want it sooner or later. Just don't give up on it and it'll all come out in the wash, right?
ox
QuoteJust don't give up on it and it'll all come out in the wash, right?
That is the hope. In the end, I ruined a chain on the chainsaw trying to cut slabs and then filing to hard and taking out the temper of the metal. How bad could this be? By the way ox, thanks for the supportive post through all this.
gww
gww, it was many years and only after I joined FF that I was able to successfully complete my homebuilt mill. Building your own mill makes you appreciate all the engineering that goes into a factory mill such as a Woodmizer. Bandmills are rather complex for what seems so simple.
gww - You're very welcome! Us poor old boys need to stick together! ;) I don't know about taking the temper out of chainsaw chain teeth. I've filed down so far that they were just little triangles...
fishpharmer - I totally agree. You said it perfectly.
Fishpharmer and ox
I typed a big responce earler today and when I hit post it just dissapeared and then I couldn't even get on the site. I was going to go through what I did today and explain how to ruin a chainsaw blade but now I just don't have the heart. I worked on the mill all day. Some went ok but when I went to try it the tension portion was still flexing so now I have to beef up the four bolt adjustment plate and hope that is the issue. When I was done the blade seemed paralel to the track but one side was 1/16th of an inch higher then the other side. I am going to someday try a cut before trying to do better on that. I don't like it but over a 20 inch span it may not even show up in a 10 inch wide board.
I hope it is the four bolt plates that are now flexing cause I don't know what to do from here if it isn't. I beefed up the tension slider that I though was most of my problim but when I put the blade under power it walked to the front of the tensioning tire also the tire with the plate. The plate with the four bolts is all bent to heck from stress so surely that is it. I did have it tensioned to just crunching the tires. I could back of a bit of tension but if I can get it to hold at the high tension I will feal better. I did cut the welds on the drive wheel and drive a couple of pieces of metal in to change the position and it seemed to be paralel better then it was. I did not make a clamp to a strait edge for the blade, I tensioned it, put a 2 foot level on the blade and measured to a strait edge on the track in front and behind the blade. Maby a little more rickity but I checked about a hundred times and believe I have it paralel to the track.
None of it matters If I can't get the flexing out of the tension bar which I beefed up.
Thanks
gww
I beat the system this time, I copied my responce and just pasted it when it dissapeared again when I tried to post. I do wish this site had auto save so you didn't lose your whole post every time tou tryied to post and had connection problims.
gww, I commend you for your persistence in the mill build. Certainly sounds like your on the right track. The flexing is okay if its consistent as long as you can adjust for the movement. As you mill more often, you will learn all the "secret codes" to its operation. One of which maybe compensating the tracking adjustment for the known flex. I wouldn't worry about the 1/16 off from one side to the other. It will throw off your cant a little so that its not absolutely square. You could shim under the cant to even it out.
Keep up the good work.
Fish
Fishpharmer
The flex was consistant before I beefed up the slide bar. Now the flex is when I put power to the drive wheel. I will eventually take pictures so you all can laugh at me. I made one part as strong as I could think to do but I think it stressed anouther part even worse. I am pretty sure that I am on the right item as the band was only moving forward on the tension wheel not the drive wheel.
I hate the next change cause the change today means I can no longer take the slide bar compleetly out due to welds. So I will have to add where I can on part of it while on the michine. I also have to remove the tension nuts and then put them back. I do see some of the reasons that I thought some of the other mill builds had what I thought was wasted metal. Some of it is to keep things seperate so you can work on one thing at a time.
On a differrent note, I one time thought of raising fish and your name has me curious to what it means.
You guys really do help my morale.
thanks
gww
Oh, the frustration of spending time typing just to lose it all. THAT sucks. Constantly working on and improving something that will help you in life, like your mill, doesn't suck! ;D Pretty much ditto to everything fishpharmer wrote. He seems to be able to put his thoughts down alot better than I can. Thankful for that. And yes, gww, there seems to be alot of extra steel on some mills but you're starting to know why now. Something that may be too late for you now is the idea of bolting things on the mill instead of welding. Weld angle iron or flat steel on the ends of things with say a 1/2" hole drilled in it and tap a hole behind it for say a 3/8" bolt. It allows for solid mounting and adjustments as well. On my mill there's some holes that are drilled 3/4" with a 3/8" bolt through it with stacked washers for clamping. They're for the blade guides. It's necessary, at least on this mill. It's a pain to get adjusted right but when it's there, it ain't movin'. I drool over the Cook's replacement guides with all the adjustments right there. Maybe someday. And yeah, I'm wondering what happened to your chainsaw. Maybe next time when you get the energy to type like crazy again you'll tell us the story! Keep at your mill, bub - you'll get her. Everything you try will either be worse or better so through the process of elimination it'll come round. And nobody will laugh at it so don't hesitate to post pics. You can post pics, alot of us can't so who's laughing at who, ya know? ;)
I can't believe I just lost another replie and for got to copy before hitting post. This is two days in a row for bad internet or a virous. Ox I typed a lot but now you have to wait again for the chain story. This is getting old
gww
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that sucks SO much. I feel your frustration clear up here. :( A tip if you don't already know - look up SuperAntiSpyware free download. It's an anti-virus/anti-spyware program and it works great!. It's what the main computer store in my area uses to clean up infected systems. And yes, they use the free version. It has updates and everything with it. It's all you need. It saved every computer I pointed it at. You'll be amazed at how many things it finds that aren't supposed to be there. Jeez, it sounds like I'm a salesman for a free download... ::) But it won't help with dodgy internet, unfortunately. :-\
Ox
I know this sounds crazy but I run my computer with no anti virus and windows update turned off. I have been doing this forever. Nothing is free however, about twice I have had to reload the original factory disk which wipes out all the new stuff. No banking on line for me.
I still don't have the issues of my mon and brother (knock on wood). I don't keep important things that I am afraid of losing on a computer.
I have hughes net and I am not impressed and it is getting worse.
I am sorry about the missed stories I typed for you and the thanks and pleasure I get from reading your post. I just don't have it in me right now to redo it.
I do wish this site had autosave cause then I wouldn't lose everything.
Thanks for all your support.
gww
Quote from: gww on April 27, 2015, 10:34:21 PMI have hughes net and I am not impressed and it is getting worse.
It is bad to have to wait for a cloudless sky to have reliable service. :-\
That's too bad about the internet issues. And from what you're saying about the updates and such on your computer it's a good thing you don't bank online! I remember you saying awhile ago you have a little trouble typing and such so if you don't feel like any stories and such I completely understand.
MagicMan - your last post sounds like you're talking from experience? I've looked into the satellite internet but I'm always turned off by the fact that you're limited to a certain amount of GB or whatever and I have no idea how much my family and I go through in a month. I'd hate to hit the limit and get socked with a big bill for over using whatever it is.
With internet, you gotta do what you gotta do! I've learned so much from the web that I can't believe it myself sometimes. :)
Quote from: gww on April 27, 2015, 10:34:21 PM
I do wish this site had autosave cause then I wouldn't lose everything.
Thanks for all your support.
gww
You could type up your message using word, wordpad or even just notepad, save to your hard drive and when all is ready copy and paste to the FF message editor.
magicman and ox
Thanks
andre
I just tried to answer kbetz post on his build and I copied before I hit post. It is now on my computer and all I have do is paste. Then I post and couldn't even get the site to come back up. Some funny things happend when I first got huhges net then things kinda calmed down. I had a router go out and I think their equiptment must be hard on routers cause it is acting funny again. I do not like the company and when my two years is up I will try fidelity. My only two choices where I live.
I guess the gist of this post is even auto save wouldn't have saved me cause I still have the responce on my computer. Lets see if this post goes through
gww
Andre - that's a good suggestion. It's a little bit of a pain but at least gww won't lose massive amounts of time typing just to lose it all. This way what is typed can remain until the post will finally go through. Good idea! Keeping stress and frustration down is the secret to happiness in my opinion.
Ok, I put the batteries for the camera on charge. I cut a very small amount of wood today. It was only about 4 inches wide. I took some bark off the wider section first but due to the bark it was hard to tell exactly what was going on but it looked ok.
I am cutting with out the guides on. I never did get the flexing out of the machine when I put power to the drive wheel. So I just loosened the tention till the blade would track just a bit forward on the tension wheel. I also put my 5th new blade on.
It cut strait and at the end of the cut the blade did not raise or drop. With out raising the head I could drag the mill back to the start and the blade would ride the cut perfectly. I am cautiously optimistic though I have been here before. a 4 inch cut is not much of a test so I need another log to ruin or even better get boards from.
I have to work on guides. The cut was uniform on both sides althoug again a 4 inch cut is not much. Also the real question is how long the blade will last. Am I close or is this as "beenthere" would say, just another fuse in a bad electrical system.
Ox
The biggest stress of losing the post was I really wanted to tell you about the chain and I like responding to poeple that take an interest in my success. My biggest frustration about the whole thing is how lazy I am at times. I just couldn't make myself type it again cause it was a bunch of work at something I am not good at (typing and spelling). The closest I can come to repeeting what I typed is I tried to take the chain angle to 10% from where it was much to fast. I typed it to shaw I did not just build a mill right off but tryed to get wood other ways that did not work that well either. I used examples of how I try things and usually fail before I succeed, like wind turbined and chicken pluckers. Half of it was probly fluff that would have wasted your time anyway.
I did take fishpharmers advice and just try to come up with a way to live with a little flex if I can get the mill to cut wood and not ruin blades. I couldn't get it out anyway so it is good advice.
Thanks
gww
Still curious if your blades are level with your deck. If they are not level the back side of the blade during the cut can rub against the wood causing friction and then it will cause heat, when the blade heats it will then loose tension. I would make sure the blade is level with the deck to eliminate this issue, make sure to check it with full blade tension.
Also curios what your SFPM is, the calculation is Motor RPM X Motor pulley diameter / Driven pulley diameter X Bandsaw wheel diameter x 3.1416 / 12 = S.F.P.M. Here is a link to an online calculator you can use http://vintagemachinery.org/math/sfpm.aspx
The average motor running RPM of small engines is around 3200 to 3500.
Example: Engine RPM 3400, 5" motor pulley, and 12" drive pulley, 20" tires
3400 X 5 / 12 X 20 X 3.1416 /12 = 7417SFPM
Here is a one of the pictures of my fully hydraulic sawmill I completed back in 2004 from my gallery, it also uses tires and I have not had a problem with them, I also run the Cooks blade guides. I started out using bearings like what you have, but found out real quick they will lock up. I have taken the Cooks off a couple of times and trued them up on the metal lathe since the fronts round over after a lot of use.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11029/Walnut22GF.jpg)
Gary
Gary
I spent the last two days trying to make sure the blade is running parelel to the track. I think I have it but my wheel tracking adjustment is differrent then most mills and I am sure it would be easy to lose. I did have to cut welds and tilt the drive wheel to obtain that.
I believe I have seen your mill from trolling this site an it popping up in search engines while trying to research building one. It was a very ambitious project and you must be proud. Good to hear that the tires cause you no issues.
I did go to that site to caculate speed and my mill is on the high side depending on motor rpm. It sounds simple to say 3400 rpm motor but when you search the internet they give you speeds of 2500 to 3400 and thay say in places that the briggs that were put on garden tillers were less. worse case sinario I am at 9000 fpm or above. I have a 3.5 pully on motor between a seven or eight inch pully on the wheel and my tires are 20.5 inches. The problim is the only possible change without building a new mill is a motor pully reduction.
Here are the pictures of my recent attempts at helping my cut. I forgot to show where I cut and wedged stuff and rewelded to change my wheel tilt.
Here is the one inch square pipe I put inside my tension slide bar and welded in front and back. Trying to strengthen it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000422.JPG)
Here is the other side of the tension bar that the one inch pipe is sticking out of (hard to see it). I also doubled the back plate that the wheel adjustment bolts go through.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000423.JPG)
Here is a piece of rebar I welded to the back side of the head to get whatever it would give me. No real room anywhere unless I decide to make my cut depth smaller.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000424.JPG)
Although this picture is simular to the one above, I took it to show the water pipe that I welded to the back side of the two pieces of steel holding the wheels, one of which is the one the tension bar slides in.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000425.JPG)
This is a board I cut with no guides, a new blade and after the above (improvements?).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000426.JPG)
This picture was to show what I am using to put my guides on, water pipe sliding in water pipe with nuts to tighten with. The other pictures probly show it better.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000427.JPG)
I don't even know why I took this picture.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000428.JPG)
Well tha-ba tha-ba thats all folk. I had to end with porky pig cause I figures I am posting a comedy. Have fun and comments are welcome. It may not look like much but it took me two days.
Thanks
gww
gww
I'm not keeping up very well... but I've tried. :D
So much "welding in place" where seems to be a need for the ability to fine adjust things. Especially when there are forces that will bend and twist the plumbing pipes and connectors that you are relying on to keep things straight.
I sure hope it works for you eventually and cuts some lumber. Truth be known, I don't see it being a possibility but give you big kudo's for your determination and grit. Wish you the best.
beenthere
You might be right although if you are talking about the last pumbing pipe, it was just put there to help put more tension so things couldn't move, If it is the guides only one peice is welded and the rest moves with pinch nuts to lock it in place. It was the only thing I could think of that would give me movement in every single direction. On it what I worry about is is it heavy enough or will bounce get me. I actually thought that the ideal was to make everything except two things compleetly immovable but as you can see I can't claim to have building skills. Most of the advice I got was to make it stronger so it wouldn't twist and turn. I hope it cuts some day without ruining blades before there time. I know it looks rickity but it has what some of the simpler mills that are outthere have. Or I missed what they have which is also possible. I haven't got it proven to be right yet but I do have an angle grinder till I burn it up. I will keep adjusting till I get some kind of board out of it.
You may be right though, I may never get it right. It is my best though for what it is worth.
Thanks
gww
If you got a decent board without using the guides, why not run it some more like that? Run it at least twice as long as you did with the other blades after they went bad on you. This should tell you for sure if the guides are what is causing you trouble. And heck, if you're not after speed or production, why not run it without guides. It's just for a few boards here and there, right? You can watch the blade tracking to see how hard to push. If your mill will do for you what you want it to do, to heck with it - run it like it is! I think your mill looks like a fella had a need and filled a need with what he had on hand and with the smallest possible cash layout. Nothing wrong with that! My first mill was built that way. Sawed two boards and everything went to heck. I didn't have the heart at that time in my life to keep trying to get it to work and it was before I found this forum. This was around 5 years ago or so. Bad times then.... Keep it up, you're doing fine! I love redneck/hillbilly ingenuity. It's amazing what we can accomplish with what we have on hand.
P.S. If you ever saw me you'd swear I just crawled out of the swamp somewhere... ;D
Ox
I noticed the cuts had a thicker washboard look to them. Not thick enough that I couldn't use the board for my needs and all but one (I only did 4) were uniform thickness on both sides all the way down the lenght. I am sure there are guys who have sawed enough that just by looking at the blade marks on a board, they could tell if something was out of wack and probly what that something is. One had a slight wave but there was a knot there. Over all it is cutting second best I have ever seen it. I would like to get some guides at some point that work cause I might be able to milk a blade just a bit longer. I still don't know if their is someone who can sharpen around here and I have a feeling shipping is a bugger though if I actually got 400 board foot out of a blade these last six might last me forever. I hate being down to my last and needing one and having to wait on shipping cause I don't plan my life well enough for that, I am a more this needs done now and then now that is more important. I pretty much do what is interesting enough to modivate me or that I have no choice on.
I am going to try and get another big white oak tommorrow while I still have dads tractor. (I think it is a white oak, I am not sure) . This one is a bit bigger and I am hoping I can still carry it with the bucket rather then drag it. His tractor seemed slow lifting this last log. Either way I can't keep the tractor forever. That is the plan now, it may change in the morning.
I will cut with out guides untill I get alot better guides then I currently have. We will see if I even get one good cut on a bigger log cause a 4 inch cut only helps my confidence a small bit.
I really did spend a lot of time measuring from the blade to the deck and am pretty sure I have it right or really really close.
I agree that I was doing my best with what I had to work with. I would not have bought a new one but somehow can justifie in my mind trying to do it this way. I really do hope it works good enough for my needs. I built my chicken nest and bee hives with a bunch of nonstandard sizes and a whole bunch of differrent species of wood so it doesn't need to be perfect but does need to be usable.
I have my fingers crossed it all works out.
thanks for the pep talk and advice.
gww
The boards made me happy but it wasn't much of a test.
You're right. This next bigger log will tell you alot I think. And I also think that "usable" boards really makes you think. I guess that firewood is usable as a building material if you mortar it up in cordwood construction. And I suppose you could make some kind of structure using fenceposts. In the old days they used split boards. I guess it all depends on if you're happy with it. I built a chicken coop a few years back off my neighbors slab/cull pile. Larch. Splintery darn things, larch boards. Looks great for a chicken coop and the chickies don't mind a bit. Most people in today's society would have gone to a store and bought brand new lumber and such. Those of us on this board are not these types of people.
I think you're probably wise to continue to improve your guides. I think there's a reason all these mills have them. I was really hoping it would work for you to your satisfaction without having to continue the trial and error stuff. I know how that is. My hat's off to you for your dedication.
With your chainsaw story I'm guessing you tried taking a grinder to get your teeth to 10 degrees for milling? Heh. Me too. The second time around I just used the new chain as is and when needing sharpening I started moving the 30 to 10 each time I had to file. This was years ago too.
Here is an article you may want to read of fpm and HP from Cooks Saw, they have a lot of helpful information that I researched during my build.
http://www.cookssaw.com/Articles/bandsawturn.php
Here are some guidelines from the article: 8 hp max speed 3,500 fpm, 12 hp max speed 4,000 fpm, 16 to 18 hp max speed 4,500 fpm, 25 hp max speed 5,000 fpm, 30 hp and above max speed 5,500 fpm. It also talks about what happens when you exceed 5500 fpm even on higher horsepower sawmills. I dont recall the fpm on my mill when I calculated it but it was under 5000 fpm using a 31 hp engine, I lost some HP due to the hydraulic pump being driven from it also.
I also could not tell from your photo of your blade guide if it slides in and out using round pipe, if this is the case what keeps the blade guides level with the deck when you adjust it in and out. You may think about using square tubing with a nut welded on the corner edge of the tube with a bolt locking it in place and keeping it square. Just a few more ideas.
Ox
On the chain, yep you guessed right.
Gf
I love you ideals. I did read that thread when I was building. My problim is I was only using the stuff I could find when I build and I tried to keep those guidlines in mind but I didn't want to buy much stuff cause I wouldn't be creating anything and if that was the case I would have looked for a used one on craigs list and tried to bargine for it.
On the guide with the pipe that slides. I put two pipe going up and down. One is just a support that slides up against the head of the michine so it can't move up and I am using down pressure on the blade so I didn't worry about it bouncing down.
I don't know if it will work good. I looked for square pipe that would slide in and out of each other but I don't live in a town with a lot of bigg stores and am too impatiant to order and recieve it later. If they would have had square pipe when I shoped, I would have got that, they didn't but did have pipe. I may have to redo it someday but that didn't seem to be my problim. My problim was destruction of the bearings I am using.
I cut one tree today and got two eight foot and one 9 foot log from it today. The smallest end out of all three was 15.5 inches. I don't have many trees this good on my place. I almost took another log out of it that would have went above 10 inches on the small end but it had big branches on it and I thought it might be two squirly to cut and try to dry.
Thanks
gww
Ps I also read on that site (I think) that they had a blade they recomend running at 8000 fpm
You may want to look at this calculator http://www.rbkmfg.com/calculat.htm. If your bearings are 1 5/8" (just guessing) in diameter and your running 9000 fpm across them the bearing is turning 21155 RPM, not sure that the bearing is going to last very long at that RPM, even if you put on some Cooks blade guides.
GF
gf
Yea I know, I might have to end up with the pinch plate type guides it I can't get anything else to work. I really wanted the down pressure if I could get it cause from my point of veiw, I thought they might help cover shoddy workmanship if something else is a bit out of wack. I worked hard enough to get the blade parralel to the track and think I have it (maby), perhaps a differrent type of guide will work. I am going to try the down pressure guides just a bit more before going a differrent rout. A 2 inch pully on the motor (if they make them) would probly bring the speed down to the 5000 fpm though I didn't run the numbers on the caculator you posted. One good thing that comes with the higher speed is torque.
The only way I could change the wheel pully would be to rap some flat iron around it and baiscally build another pully inside the current one. Lots of balance issues with something like that when using the meager tools that I own.
I see your point and had seen it before building but I was hoping it wasn't a deal killer and pushed ahead anyway. I did see one site that said the tiller motors from briggs was 1700 rpm. I didn't put a lot of creadence in it cause you know what is on the internet. I did however see that the rated horse power on some was at 2500 rpm which brings my mill back in the game. I thought about running at a lower rpm by just not opening the throttle all the way. They run the harbour fraite mills with 7 horse power motors.
I am not saying the thoughts above make sence to a normal person but they are the things that were going through my mind while I was building.
I could see the speeds affect on bearings but would not have thought it would eat blades. The mill cuts good with out taxing the motor althoug by good I mean speed wise not wonderful cut although a few times the cut was wonderful. The only time I saw real heating of the blade was when I used soap and water and also had a guide freeze up. It turned the sawdust between the wood black. Even then the blade must cool quickly cause I have never felt it so hot I couldn't hang on to it. the bearings however are another story. I would not leave my finger on them for long.
Besides just trowing the mill away. What are your thoughts on addressing the speed issue?
Thanks
gww
I am hoping to take this:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000430.JPG)
And not make it into this:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000431.JPG)
This was a very nice tree for my place. I will start on it if my wife will let up on the honey do list, I have my doubts that that will be soon though.
Cheers
gww
On the speed issues why not just try throttling back and see how it does? It might have enough grunt to pull it. Engines very rarely make their best torque at max rpms anyway, usually it's around 3/4 or so.
ox
I may have to half throttle if I can't find a bearing that will hold up.
I have actually cut that way on accident and it will do it, It does seem to to it better at full throttle though. I knew when I made the homemade pully that it might cause issues. I had another choice, I could have used a front wheel drive wheel bearing with a shaft and put any size pully I wanted on it. I have several sizes laying around. It may sound stupid but I decided to go this route cause I watched a youtube vidio where a guy said he had to reduce his 12 inch pully to 10 inches because he was using a small engine and it didn't have enough torque. He mentioned he thought eight inch pully would even be better, so me being me, I went aginst all conventional wisdom and went with the guy who was saying what I wanted to hear.
It really seems like it should work. When it cuts, it can do well and I am not blazing through stuff but it doesn't seem slow and the motor dosn't seem taxed. It just only last for one log and my blades are toast. I am waiting to see what it does without guides on something bigger, like what is sitting on it now.
However, my wife has gotten jelious of the mill and I now have a pretty large honeydoo list. I can probly sneak some cutting in in the mornings.
I tell you how confident I am that a couple of the boards will be usable. I painted the end of the logs with some bright pinkish paint cause I heard it is easer to seal that way before cutting then it is after it is boards. If it ends up as fire wood it will atleast give some color to firing the stove.
Ox
I am glade your bad time 5 years ago is better. Most things are worse at the time then they end up being later.
Thanks
gww
what is the size of your tires in inches. 28" ? what pulley is driving them and what pulley is on the motor? and what motor is the HP? i will figure your speed up with what you got now. and see what maybe you could change without costing much?
stoker
It's all been gone over a few post back. The motor 9 horse briggs tiller motor, motor pully 3.5 or 3.6 inch, wheel pully 7 or 8 inch I can't remember exacly. Wheel 20.5 inch. Depending on the motor rpm, if it is 3400rpm I am around the 9000 fpm range. The only possible cheap way to change it is maby a smaller motor pully. I am guessing a two inch would bring it to the 5000 fpm but did not take the time to caculate it for sure. The wheel pully is part of the wheel bearing and it can't be changed. I cut a tiller wheel up and welded the ring I cut off it to the back of the wheel bearing to make the pully.
Thanks
gww
yes a 2" pulley would slow it down and let you use the torque of the motor better. it would put it at 4560 feet per min. your setup now is 8207 FPM. if you could find a B type 2" pulley and run a 1/2 inch wide belt it would help.
also if you could move the motor over closer to the wheel pulley and use a shorter belt, it would help you if your having belt slippage.
Looking back at some of your pictures it looks like there may be room for a countershaft or jackshaft between the engine and the drive wheel. That way you could stay with larger pulleys on the engine and the second pulley on the counter shaft.
With very small pulleys the belt does not bend around it very well and you lose a lot of contacting surface area, then slippage becomes a problem.
Other options to reduce tire speed?
I can think of two that may or may not work, one would be to add a shaft with a step pulley or 2 different size pulleys and a second belt to reduce speed, the other idea would be to cut a grove or flat on the tire behind the blade to run the belt on. Not sure how well belt on a tire would work.
andre
Whats the math to put it all together? In other words what size extra pully are we talking about to end up in the 3500 to 4000 fpm range?
Stoker
I don't think I am getting much belt slipping at this point except when I first start the blade and maby when I forget to squeeze hard enough. Some times I am consintrating on the cut or something else and I just forget to keep squeezing. I do put some stresses on the michine pully assembly cause I added a heavyer spring and welded a bolt on the idler pully so when I pull it it doesn't go all the way around. It is the light duty idler that came off the tiller and it has broke once at the swivil and I rewelded it. It is holding up and I don't think I am getting much slippage, I am pinching the belt further around the pullys when I pull the idle pully tight.
Thanks
gww
if he could find a 6 inch and and 4 inch pulley he could make a jackshaft and slow it down. his ratio right now is 2.2222 he needs it to be around 3.5 ratio. so a 3.5" on the motor into a 6" would give a 1.71429 ratio on the other side of jack shaft would be a 4" and his homemade 8" would be a 2 to 1 ratio. so 1.71429 x 2 = 3.42858 ratio.
Looks like Stroker beat me.
The two ratios are just multiplied together to get the overall ratio.
find a car belt tension thing off a junk car to put on one of the two belts and use your handle on the other one
Ok first. Does the belt from the pully to the drive wheel have to have a tension pully also or is that just so the belt is easy to change?
what issue is the fast blade causing. Just the burning up of my blade guides? Or is it contributing to the blade dulling really fast?
I don't know what a jackshaft is but am assuming by the conversation it is a shaft with two pullys on it. Do I have this correct?
On the wheel being the pully also, I actually saw a mill on utube that the blade ran on the drive pully. That would probly take a pretty large motor pully if I tried that.
I hope for some imput on what issue running to fast is causing.
I had not thought of any of the suggestions except a smaller motor pully.
Trying the 2 inch pully seems simplest if I didn't get slippage, 4500 is still fast for my motor but should not be to fast for the guides.
Does anyone agree with my last statement?
Thanks for the comments given and any to be given.
gww
stoker
What fpm does the 6 inch to 4 inch extra pullys give me?
Thanks
gww
Ps 900 rpm correct?
I don't know why I didn't pick up on this before but that blade is running WAY too fast as you guys have already figured out. I actually ran a belt around the drive tire on my first mill the first time I built it and a belt on a tire works really well! I needed more blade speed and had a pulley laying around so I welded the pulley sheave on the backside of the rim which made the driving side a smaller ratio, thus increasing blade speed. If you could line up the engine pulley you have and run the belt around the tire I think you'll like the results and it's probably the cheapest way to decrease blade speed. I think you're cooking your blades and guide bearings with blade speeds around twice as fast as should be.
Quote from: gww on April 29, 2015, 11:43:43 PM
stoker
What fpm does the 6 inch to 4 inch extra pullys give me?
Thanks
gww
Ps 900 rpm correct?
Should run around 5000 FPM. where is the big pulley off the tiller? you could use it.
yes 900 rpm at the axle of the tire. here is a jackshaft idea i was thinking about
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39691/aw37a.jpg)
give you a idea.
Just a thought. Think about cutting metal or wood with a sawzall , if you run it to fast it gets hot and the teeth dull very quickly, if you run it at the correct speed it cuts and the blade does not overheat and dull nearly as quick. I would almost guess your blade is running so fast through the wood the tips are overheating and dulling. Will it cut with a blade running fast, sure, but not for very long.
Two things I would look at doing at the very least:
1 Get the blade FPM in the correct range for the HP of the motor.
2 Make sure the blade guides are level with the deck lengthwise.
One thing I also did on mine was to balance the wheels, this will take additional vibration out.
GF
Ok
I cut some more wood today cause I get up before my wife and get a little time each day from other pojects. The stupid thing is cutting pretty good through some real knotty oak.
I looked at my pullys and I have a 12 inch and a seven inch. I was thinking that a twelve inch from the from the 3.5 inch motor pully and then a 7 inch which is close to the wheel pully size making it about 1 to 1 ratio. this would give me if I am correct somewhere in a 3.4 reduction from motor speed. Does this sound correct? The issue may be the shaft and belt sizing as it would be a lawnmower type axil and the pullys would be more the origional tiller type belt width. what will the extra friction do to motor torque?
I have the tiller pully still, I think it is a ten inch pully if I am not getting mixed up with what I am measuring. I have a lawm mower pully that I didn't measure but looks to be in the 4 to 6 inch range.
The tire is 20.5 inch. I am guessing I would need about a 5 inch pully on the motor if I tried that. I wonder it the trailer tires are wide enough to fit a belt and blade on also.
I did notice on my board cutting that I am getting the log squared up and it is about 1/8th inch out of square. The thickness is uniform on both sides of a cut board for the lenth. Am I correct that this could be cleaned up by losing a very small portion of board width to a table saw?
I tried the 1/8th inch shim under one edge of the log for one cut and it seemed square but when measuring the ends of the squared log it was 1/8th inch longer on both sides.
looking at the board it doesn't look like a problim, will this really cause issues when trying to built with a board that is off square that small of a amount? It doesn't sound like it would ad up on a two by four. One side was 10 inches and the other side was 11 inches for this 1/8 th of measurement.
I am sure I explained the above clearly, right :).
Thanks
gww
If you use 3.5 to 12 then the 7 to the wheel pulley it would gjve you around about 3.75 that would be great.
That would be around 4921 FPM.
Would it be better to use a 13.5 pully to the seven incher. I would think by what gf posted that if I have the stuff getting closer to 3500 fpm is better. I will have to measure if it fits the axil and if it is for sure 13.5 but I believe it is.
Is it bacwards from where I want to go if I used a 5 inch pully with the 12 incher? I have one of those also.
Thanks
gww
Find out what you got and if it will fit you shafts and we will go from there
Option A water pipe 12 inch pully and either a 5 inch pully or a 6.5 inch pully. The two mentioned pullys don't quite fit the pipe but it is close enough that I think it can be made to work. Benifits of this ideal is I already have two pillow block bearings that will fit the pipe. It also looks like the pullies will take a wider belt then option two.
Option two is a 12 inch pully and a seven inch pully a three inch pully and the 10 inch pully on the tiller looks to be the same size shaft but it is still on the tiller so I am not 100% positive.
I believe that the pipe and 12 inch with five inch is what would give me the proper speed. I have it that I would be at a five to one ratio and that if my motor did do 3400 I would be running at 4100 fpm. I would not say my math is correct though and I wonder the motors real rpm.
Thanks
gww
745 rpm at the wheels, 4000 FPM with 12 and 6.5
stroker
Does that sound like what I want to you?
gww
Thanks to Stroker for stepping in and helping! Numbers sometimes just rattle around in my brain box. Depends on which day, time of day, etc. I'd say anything between 4 and 5 thousand fps is what most mills shoot for. 4 would work good for you and won't be burning up blades and guide bearings! I think you've finally gotten to the root of your problems thanks to the others' help! 8)
i think that would help in the bearing area. these small bearing are not made to run 90 MPH and i think that is what you have been doing(maybe not that fast lol). they can run 20 MPH all day long.
Ox
Only time will tell what this means. I myself will do what I always do, proceed with my fingers crossed. The only thing differrent between me and you on the math is, you just tell everyone you are bad, I on the other hand put it in writing so everyone can see it ???. I did the math that I wrote on the 5 inch pully but taking the wheel 8 and deviding it by the five and then took the 3.5 pully and devided the 12 inch pully by that and then added them together to try and get the ratio. It come up to five and I then went to the caculator that "gf" posted to come up with the fpm. It aparently came up wrong doing it that way so aparently I am missing something.
I always thought that I didn't have to know everything as long as I knew where to go to get the answer. This is a perfect example of the best answer is working with poeple who are smarter then you. I only wonder why the bother with me. I am thankfull though.
gww
Ok stoker
I have a plan. Spring has upped my work load, so I am not sure when it will be implimented, but I will try to update on my progress as you guys deserve the results by becoming part of the fix. I really needed the help and I will be honest, it is comforting when more then one person sees the same thing. I feel I am on the right track. I am thankful for the added spicific mechanics to go with the general ideal.
Thanks
gww
your welcome
smiley_thumbsup
gww, look at the bearing problem this way. Depending on which figures you are using, thos gyide rollers are turning 20,000 + rpm, maybe as much as 30,000. At that speed, unless they have some super fine seals, all the lube (grease or oil) will sling off before you get halfway down the first log. Then you have a dry bearing turning severl times it's design speed. There is a good reason most all the factory built mills use sealed bearings..Keep plugging away, 1 problem at a time till you get it working like you want..
i thing another problem you might have is you blade speed is so fast it wasn't cleaning out the saw dust out of the cut.
piney
I'm working on it slowly.
stroker
There was plenty of sawdust left on most of the boards. I am new enough that I don't know what is normal when I see it.
I got no time to work on the mill today, I am behind on chores, paying bills, and can't keep up right now, verry soon though.
Today I had to help dad get and old cornpicker cut lose from a bunch of trees growing through it. I ended up getting the backhoe stuck and worked for some time and it is still stuck. supposed to be dry for a few days, so will try again. Mostly trying to catch up on chores cause all I really want to do is get the mill working. I have put off a few things and spring also brings gardening. I get an hour or so a day no matter what, but my hour might be about 5 min. worth of work for a normal guy.
Thanks
gww
Thanks
Ok
Some good and some bad. I put the pully set up with the 12 inch pully to the six inch pully to the wheel.
The good, It seemed to cut fine and I also found when tensioning the blade that my flex has gotten a bit better and I can tension more with out the blade wanting to creep up to the front of the tire. I don't know how much tighter I can go cause I had other issues before doing more expermentation. I am using no guides during test and cutting a twelve inch oak 2x12.. I got some waves when hitting knotts and when I tightened the tension a bit more it seemed to help but only cut three boards.
Bad
I have to take the blade, tire and pillow block bearing off to change a belt. I was getting some belt slippage on the wheel, enough that it wore out the small belt in three cuts and the belt fliped its self. I was really expecting it to act this way but me being me, I wanted to cut something. I believe if I get a wider belt it will fit the pullys better and I will just have to tighten it even more. I am using a hydrolic truck jack turned with my fingers before tightening the pillow blocks. If that doesn't work I will have to come up with some kind of belt tensioner which I hope not to have to do.
It also made my engine belt tight enough that everything turns when starting the motor. This is not a horible problim but if I go with a longer belt I will have to move the current belt tensioner and may anyway. It does mean I have to slip the belt off to check tracking when I first adjust the tension. Most of these issues don't really cause a problim for the way I cut as I kill the motor after every cut anyway. I am mesuring every board before I cut and may never put a cutting guide/mesuring tape on the saw cause I haven't found it slow me down enough to bother me (yet).
The only real issue I may face is belt slippage being harder to deal with while using the shorter belt on my home made pully. The longer belt didn't seem to need to be as tight and it still griped well. A wider belt may help this a bit.
Thanks
gww
But you can tell it slowed down and the motor isnt bogging down as easy?
Stoker
The motor didn't really bog down before. It doesn't seem to run much differrent. It might bog down a tiny bit more now but is cutting good. I was hoping I hadn't took too much life out of the blade by making the few cuts I made while it was running fast.
It doesn't seem to cut much slower but you were correct. I am not getting as much sawdust left on the board after the cut. As an experment I ran one cut with the motor at half throttle. I could tell the motor stugguled a bit more but it still cut pretty good.
I put a new belt on the wheel. The guy told me it was a half inch bigger then the belt I was replacing. When I put it on it was actually smaller. Now my pully is cocked at a downward angle. When the motor is running the blade is turning. The motor belt looks a little loose but I do not need to use the tensioner to cut. The first thing that happend was the wheel belt fliped upside down. It doesn't slip when cutting though so I will probly ride it out this way and check blade life till something breaks. My opinion is that something will be the motor belt. The mill threw the belt twice and it is a matter of time till it gets caught in the blade and gets shredded. I figure the wheel belt will stretch the way it is running and I may be able to adjust better later.
I could probly shim behind the back pillow block and losen the motor belt a bit more and it might change the dynamics on the belt throwing just a bit but I would have to move the pully tensioner for sure and I am not up for that yet. I don't think I have enough adjustment to go up one full inch lenght on the wheel belt and that is what the say they sell in the 5/8th width belts. (it would be close). I had a half inch belt on it and they say they go by 1/2 inch incriments. I almost fell like making a keeper to keep the belt from being able to get to the blade rather then fixing the other stuff. It hasn't come off while cutting and its easy to slip back on and it is cutting very good without using guides.
It might eat the upsidedown running belt up pretty quick, I don't know how that is going to go but guess I will find out. One belt is $22 and one is $14. I figure that they wheel one running upside down, that the damage isw done so I might as well ride it out. It may end up not being an issue. I am a bit surprize that the bit of tilt is causing the motor belt to come off. It make you wonder how people run twisted belts. It may be the belt is lose enough with out using a good tension pull that it is just hopping of but you would think I would have terible slippage. It might become clear before I do get a belt cut up by the blade.
I know how the above sounds but over all I am happy with the potential of the blade slow down.
Thanks
gww
Ps The washboard look of the cut is much smoother now, It could be the higher tension or it could be the speed.
The slower speed is going to save your guide bearings and blades in the long run. Plus it should not dive down as much now because your getting that sawdust cleaned out of the cut better.
Stroker
That all sounds good to me.
I really like cutting. I hate stickering. I found that I can barily handle a 8 foot 2x12 oak. The two by fours are a little easyer though.
I have no ideal what to cut in advance. I know you need to let it dry and I can't figure out what I am going to need later. I have enough 1bys to make bee hives now and I keep thinking that 2bys as wide as posible can always be cut down to 2x4s.
The having to let it sit so long to dry makes it hard to decide what to cut. I mostly have oaks with maby a cedar threw in once in a while. Does anyone have suggestions or is cutting wide and thick the way to go. Does anyone ever substitute oak 4x4s for something like ceadar? Will oak work if it is dried first for post? I know it works well on deer stands and barns. Will oak if dried work half as good as treated lumber for raised bed gardens?
I would be interested in what people cut for themselves and what it is used for.
Thanks
gww
I make some raised beds and install plastic inside them to help with rot from the soil inside. They seem to last OK.
Good job, gww. Sounds promising! Reminds me of an old Allis on the the farm that wouldn't keep a belt running right for beans. It would flip and ride twisted in the pulleys and be like that for months. Weird. Lasted longer than you would expect.
Plastic will last darn near forever (underground) as long as you keep sunlight off from it. It's a good idea to use it in raised bed gardens like tmarch suggested. Tarps or the plastic construction rolls at the big hardware stores, clear or black or blue it doesn't matter which. Whichever is cheapest!
Tmarch and and ox
I probly have about 12 raised bed gardens if you can call them that.
Most are made out of 2x10s or 2x12s some are toung and groove 2x6 stacked double all treated lumber. I made some out of some old oak eaves and those are pretty much toast and replaced but I don't have a good ideal what would have happened as they were pretty much toast before I use them.
The treated has not all acted the same and some have rotted where the dirt is and and expesially close to the ground. I am running sort of a test. I just put up a grape aubor and used six cedar post and two green 4x4 oak post. I could have cut two more cedar post fairly easy but figured what the heck.
I probly won't do the plastic as I never have yet though I believe it is a good ideal. I usually put another row of boxes under duress when I my wife ask enough times that I feel I have not chioce. I might put her off a year and then one day go coble a few together.
I mostly am not a planner which is why I was wondering what most felt was a good board to dry and have around. I gave the other examples of things I have did or will have to do and also since I had done some of it before and pretty much used what I had or could get and because I have more oak then any other type of wood to cut, I am just trying to figure what it will work for. I don't have many cedar and the widest I have been able to cut out of about a ten inch is a 7 inch board. Lots of cedar but most good for post with no real size.
Still having belt issues onthe saw but have another log squared up and ready to see if the blade will keep going. I still have not worked on new blade guides. what do most use one bys for? The only thing I can think of is bee hives, shelves and maby some kind of furniture which I probly won't be doing. What else is a good use for one bys? we did use a bunch for stringers to screw tin to on buildings.
Thanks
gww
1 bys for siding, flooring on top of underlayment, furring strips, fencing, beehives, chicken coops, dog houses, window trim,
etc.
2 bys for construction, studs, framework
I've heard guys cutting/squaring the cant out of logs and setting it aside for later for when they know what they need out of it. This is what I would do if I didn't know what I needed but wanted a stockpile for future use. It's easier and faster getting boards from a cant than a tree.
Many would probably seal the ends to help against cracking and such.
I've heard everything from Anchorseal to roofing tar to regular house paint. I suppose they all work to some extent, some better than others.
Ox
Thanks for the very informative post. That is what I was looking for.
gww
I slab, stack and sticker and dry most of my lumber just to have it when I need it. Amazing what some people can think of for uses for live edge stuff.
T
I am slab,stack and stikering now cause to get the saw working I have no choice. What does live edge stuff mean?
Thanks
gww
Live edge means it still has the bark on the edges. Saves me turning the logs to make a cant too. 8)
T
Thanks for the answer. I have been turning and may continue cause it seems like it would be an easier starting point having an edge for the table saw. These last three logs I painted with latex paint before cutting. I had heard it is easier then painting the boards. I did some earlier by rubbing some toilet wax on them. I had bought a couple cause it supposed to seal really well when grafting trees. My first at that too.
These latex logs where a bright pink. I had a can that rusted through the bottom and it was curdled. The good thing is that since I have no more paint and so far the boards have turned out good, I know if I get a pink ended board it should be a good one.
How important is the weight being put on the very top of the pile? I cut some 1/4 inch stuff to try and get rid of waves and it really curled up before I could even cut my leftovers into fire wood. I am putting my best boards on bottom under a lean to that won't block the sun from the ends, its too tall. I haven't put weight on the top boards. I am having a hard enough time cutting stickers every day to keep up with my average `1/2 log a day of cutting.
I did half of another log today and the blade is slowing down. I screwed this test up by sawing the few boards I sawed before slowing the mill down. It still has cut more then the other blades but by doing the fast cut I have skewed wether I have actually addressed my blade wear factor for sure. It is still cutting srait boards with out blade guide though. In the morning I got some small wave at some (not all) of the knotts.
It seems to now be cutting through the knotts with no wave but just a bit slower. Is the wood a bit harder near the heart of the log?
I got tired of trying to roll the log on to the deck and used a chain and hand winch insted. It really worked well except for an error in how had it hooked. I had it on my squaring slot and when it went as far as it could I gave it one to many pulls and bent one of my squaring slots. I hammered it close and it still seems to be square but it still was a newbe stupid mistake. I do need to drill some holes and put some more leg bolts in my track if I am going to use it like this. I'm very glad this time that it was not an electric winch.
Thanks for the answer.
gww
It's been said that if you can cut straight (slowly) without guides that you have your mill set up properly. With the guides installed it should be just as good as the rest of the mills out there as far as a straight cut. The knots won't be affecting the cut near as much after putting decent guides on.
As far as the heart being harder in a tree. I guess I don't know. Unless it's punky of course. I've heard ash has a "corky" pith, or extreme center, in the logs. All the trees I've been around being sawed were usually just sawed through and through, unless it had a bad crook in it, and used all the boards for whatever was needed. I remember seeing a white oak having a board sawed off the top and it peeled up just like a giant banana. You could watch it "smiling" more and more after the cut was made. This was on an LT70 super hydraulic so the log didn't move because it was clamped tightly. Some trees just don't want to be boards. They just want to be a tree.
Ox
Good points
I finished my log this morning. It cut slow but good till I got to the last 5 2x4s which I was only cutting 3.75 inches wide. It zoomed through those. This is the first blade that has cut two logs and I am going to try the last biggest on with it also. Shouldn't be any knotts in this one. I may have a small track alinement issue jet as the end of the log is thicker than the beginning of the log when I get down to the 3.5 inch bottom which is as low as I can cut. I ended up with three 1x11, three 2x11, five 2x4 and one 3.5x3.5. All are good boards. I do find that measuring each cut is not giving me perfect diminsions. It is not off buy much but apparently I am not good with a measuring tape and it is made a bit harder with the little bit of blade flutter where it first inters the cut. Over all today was the first day with zero machanical issues or adjustments that needed to be made.
I am very happy to be this close. You guys have helped a bunch.
Thanks
gww
Quote from: gww on May 04, 2015, 10:58:12 AM
<<snip>>
It is not off buy much but apparently I am not good with a measuring tape and it is made a bit harder with the little bit of blade flutter where it first inters the cut.
<<snip>>
Are you marking the log and then trying to cut on the mark? What you should have is a scale on your vertical post with a pointer on your saw head. Use that, measuring relative to your last cut. If you search the FF, you will find people that have made custom measuring sticks that have the thickness of the the desired board with the allowance of the saw kerf built in to the spacing. You can either make them stay put with a nut/bolt or attach with magnets so its adjustable.
gww, 1/8" should be allowed for kerf of blade. So if you measure down from top of cant and hit the bottom of your first 1" mark, the saw will remove approximately 1/8" as sawdust and your board will be 1". Ljohnsaw points out the fact that when you layout your log allow for the kerf on each cut. So eight cuts would remove 1" of log as sawdust. If you don't add the kerf to your total your bottom or last board won't be as thick as you may have wanted.
Ijohn and fishp...
At this point I am killing the engine after every cut. I adjust and then move the blade to just touching the log. I measure from the top of the kerf to the top of the blade on every cut. I did today measure the kerf after every cut and then take a magic marker and mark a line on the non sliding colum of the saw in blue magic marker.
I have not gotten to making a measuring stick yet and don't mind for the amount of wood I am cutting (this might change) going slow. I also don't really know what I should be cutting. I am getting mostly close to 1.75 inch on my two bys and mostly at or 1/16 under a inch on my onebys. I don't know if this is what I should be trying for or not. My uncle has a planer and I have a table saw but for most of the stuff I do I think I would use as it is and just adjust. I could see having to clean up 2x4s if framing so you don't have wavy walls but I don't really know what is important yet and I also don't know if drying is consistant or if they all come out differrent anyway.
I don't need perfection but are their some general guideline/goals I should be shooting for? It is hard to try and come up with a measruring system when you don't really know what measurments you want to end up with.
Thanks
gww
Ps since I added the new jackshaft pullys, I have bumped my head on it about ten times making cutting measurements. You would have though one would have tought me. I don't know which saying to use. You can't teach an old dog new tricks or old habits are hard to change? I believe I am disproving the saying that pain is the fastest teacher.
8) about the blade lasting longer due to slower running speeds!
I think you're doing fine just shooting for as close to 1" and 2" boards as you can get. When you want to build something that really matters tolerance wise you have the tools available to make all the boards the same. Outdoor farm type construction and buildings aren't so picky although closer is better. Cows and chickens and bees don't care if all the boards are different or the same, and neither does the roof sitting up there to keep out the weather. When it's all built it'll look just fine from afar and nobody's gonna be taking a tape measure to check your boards.
Ox sounds good. I don't want to saw for others but thought if I cut like the ones that do saw for others I would be happy with mine also. You do pretty much seem to handle things like I normally do. I have noticed on other anomally from my saw. I think when I cut the very first cuts on a new log. The one where my head is raised the highest, I am getting more wave in the cut then when I get to the the board cutting after squaring the log. I first thought it was a tension issue but I am cutting the biggest log yet, (about 25 inches at the very widest part), I notice that the first cuts are the wavyest. It isn't terrible cause I always after chopping the log down, end up with a really good strait edge for the boards. I think my mill is to flimsy for the tall cuts and am deciding wether I am happy or need to beef it up. I don't have very many 25 inch logs.
I don't think the blade is going to make it through the third log. The smallest part of the cut so far is 15 inches wide so it might cut better when I get to my normal 11 or 12 inch width but I have my doubts. I will know more tommorrow.
Thanks for taking the time to throw in a little common sense to my disjointed thoughts.
gww
You're very welcome. I think you probably have it right in thinking your mill is a little wobbly at the top cuts. But if you don't have much big wood and can live with it, why change it? Between a planer, table saw and your mill I don't see why you need anything else. If it cuts to your liking at the size of your most available logs, good enough! However, always trying to improve things has merit as well. Determination (or stubborness!) will take care of most anything. ;)
Happy Birthday Ox. 8)
Thanks, Magicman.
Ox
Took me all day to cut my last log up. The only consulation is that the boards were good and mostly uniform. I put another blade on but it might have been premature. It was super slow too. The hardest wood I cut yet and harder near the heart. More machanical issues. Mostly with the belt set up. I am still using the same belts but both are getting ate up rather quickly. I think I may already have a pillow block bearing going out. I can't tell if it is blade or pully but I do know the belts are stretching and needed tightening today. I will make it better after I eat these belts.
It seemed to make a very big differance cutting 13 inch wide boards compared to 11 inch boards. Something to remember.
Happy birthday, I guess majicman knows more then I.
I love you saying about learning and can relate to the trying to retain some of what is learnt.
I used the planer on my attempt at chainsaw milling. It was hard to adjust hard to run and made one heck of a mess and I will only mess with it if it is for something important. The table saw is a much nicer animal.
I have some high labor boards and I don't really see how people make a living at it. But my dad keeps saying lumber is high.
I like making 2x4s best cause they cut like butter are easy to move and really seem to come out great. I wonder if a framing nailer will go through oak? I am cutting wide boards with the knowlage that they can be reduced to 2x4s if needed but man I struggled today with the 13 inch cuts. Lots of sawdust left in them too.
I did unload 1/2 pickup of cow manuar before cutting.
Anyway I am out of logs and may have to give my back a rest.
Thanks for the advice/thoughts.
gww
A 13 inch board is a pretty wide cut for a homemade mill built out of scraps - I think you and it are doing great!
If you have a Tractor Supply Company near you, I've found the blue "fabric" type belts last quite alot longer than the regular rubber ones and at the cheapest prices around my. The blues last longer but the rubber ones grip better.
Thanks for the happy b'day.
Alot of sawdust on the boards usually means too much set in the teeth of the blade. This would also account for working harder to cut in hardwood. Hardwood needs less set, softwood needs more set. But if given a choice, too much set is better than not enough.
I finally got my mill finished today and sawed a punky old red pine to check everything out. I'm pleased.
Pulled some old downed trees out of the lot as well. Many more left. Around 100 red pine to saw yet for projects. And a mix of hardwoods to play with eventually. I wanted to make my kids each a loft bed so they can push their desks in under it and free up some space in their tiny bedrooms. Figure I'll use some of the now-dead sugar maple that the stupid horses girdled 2 winters ago. Deadstanding that long I don't figure on any shrinkage!
Ox
QuoteI finally got my mill finished today and sawed a punky old red pine to check everything out. I'm pleased.
Now that is exciting, You gave yourself a birthday present.
How cool.
gww
8) 2 1/2 months of building averaging 6 hours a day with 2 1/2 total days off. It's been a long 2nd half of the winter, that's for sure. It reminds me of the old ketchup commercials with the old glass bottles - "good things come to those who wait".
I forget... are you still cutting without guides?
Just got a call from insurance gal. Guess I forgot to pay car insurance last month and I have till tomorrow to come up with $143.40. We'll have to dig in to the savings the wife has been working overtime towards to take the fist vacation in 17 years.
I hate my memory. I've been diagnosed with having pre-dementia from having traumatic brain injuries. ::)
Ox
I don't know how long mine took to put together. The frame was really short. The problims, I'm still building. I believe you had a bit more planning involved and may have more important uses for the end product then I will.
I just posted on a personal message that my dad has early altzimers or dementia and that I believed I was starting a bit earlier then him. I can't coun't the amount of times I get up a day and don't know why, or go to a store which I hate doing and come home with something other then I even went for. It's unbelievable.
I have been married since 1982 and I don't reamember ever porposely taking a vacation. I did go a couple places under duress due to work and having family commitments. I believe vacations are over rated and I probly was not the greatest catch for my wife. She might have looked around a bit more. I have lived in a few places other then home due to having no real choice IE; army and to get my retirement from work. I have always ended up back home which is where I like best. I do know that some people really get a lot of enjoyment and I enjoyed where I have been but its like the old saying, I wouldn't take a million for the experiance but wouldn't give a plug nickle to do it again. I really hope you enjoy your vacation when you get there and I do know it makes life better having something to work toward that you are looking forward to. That why you put the time in on the mill and I believe the type of mill you built is going to give you a much nicer reward then what I did (unless you enjoy fixing problims).
I really think it is something to be proud of that you built your own and even if it would have cost a bit more when counting your time, two things
1. sometimes people have more time then money
2. You can't help but know everything about it which in my opinion put you ahead of the game.
I am glad the wheight of building is off your sholders and it is now time to reap the benifits.
Good luck
gww
PS I forgot to answer your question. Yes I am still cutting with out guides.
Ox
I also would like to say, You have been a big help with my moral. Your outlook make me think I aint crazy after all and your little common sence advice on the little dumb questions like what to cut have really been helpful on me working out in my own mind how I want to handle what I do with the mill.
Thanks
gww
gww - Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, cause you're not! :D I understand about the dementia crap. I always say after I screw up, "Don't pick on me - I'm dementiated (duh-men-shee-aited). Usually it's good for a chuckle from somewhere far off.
If you're cutting what you are with no guides I think it's fantastic!
I'm glad to have been able to help you out in some way. Makes me feel good! I've always tried to help, go above and beyond but I always end up getting trod upon in the end. And then I'm pithed off to no end. But it's really my own fault for putting myself out there so far when the other "person" wasn't asking for it. But I also think that they should try to help me too. You know, one hand washes the other.
I believe you and I would make good neighbors.
The vacation is all my wife's idea. I'd prefer to stay on my hill. But I have to go to protect my family from whatever is out there.
I used to drive truck, regional, for a living and I know I don't like being away from home.
I used to be on farms too and mostly liked it cause I was close to home.
Guess what I'm saying is I'm a homebody!
We're quite alike, you and I. :)
I completely agree on numbers 1 and 2. There's 2 forms of currency in this world: time and money. If you don't have one you better have the other. And knowing your mill inside and out absolutely gives you a heads up on things cause as soon as something is amiss you'll know it, pretty much.
P.S. My first mill was like yours is now, but worse. I cut 2 boards and gave up on it. Took a week just to get the blade to stay on. Guess it was my learning experience of what NOT to do on this second one. I've had the pleasure of being around a few factory mills in the past so I kinda know how it's supposed to be. However, you can't compare much to a Woodmizer LT70 Super Hydraulic either. What a machine. Anyway, you're a better man than me for sticking it out. I'd be proud if I was you. After all, how many men have built their own personal sawmill? Not too many at all. And figure in the dollar amount you have in it, heck, ya can't lose!
Ox
unless I do pretty good with the last few blades with few breakdowns, It would have been cheaper to buy boards. I have probly close to $500 in it now counting the blades and not counting an 11 lb of flux weld wire and what ever cutting blades and stick welding rods. To show what a nut I am, I used some concreete blades in my circular saw to cut some metal. I already had some left over from some other job and though they were not optimal they worked and didn't live on my shelf for years. Of course if I need concreet blades I will have to buy them.
I don't believe I have $500 worth of wood. I do have a pretty decent pile though. Its mostly eight foot long though even though I could cut 12 foot I can't handle the logs. I would be close to a 8x8 shed worth of wood if I used plywood for the floor. I still have 4.5 blades to improve on this. I wish I could find a local resharp shop so I didn't have to deal with shipping. The little nine horse briggs is not great on gass either.
I still would have built it but do like to come out even or a bit better.
You mention truck driving. When I was 16 to 17 years old I thought that would be the coolest job. Then I got a job that I drove to 1.25 hours one way for 26 years. Road construction one way or the other for half of those years. I'm so glad I don't drive a truck for a living. I could have moved closer but I guess I'm a mommas boy cause I couldn't make myself move past the 15 mile area I grew up at. I did have to move to indiana for about 4 years to get my retirement but moved back as soon as I could. In indiana I was 5 minutes from work so I used the time to build solar panels which turned out bad and wind turbines which are ok.
You say you worked on farms. I put up enough hay in my youth and grew up from about 11 to 16 on eighty acres and raise bucket calves and slopped hogs enough to know that it is a hard way to make a good living. I sure look fondly at the independance and privacy of that 80 acres though.
I don't think I help that many people cause my circle of friends is not that wide for much opertunity to do so but I do try not to be a draw on anyone either. The only people I abuse most is mom and dad cause dad has much better tools then I do and I am rough on stuff. His and mine, but he takes it in stride and I try to make up for it in other ways.
Cheers
gww
Here's how I look at the cost vs. savings thing. Yeah, you have $500 in your mill blades included. Which is a phenomenal price for something that can produce lumber. You will always have the mill from here on. It may take awhile but you'll recoup your money eventually because now every time you see a log you'll be thinking sawlog instead of firewood log. It'll come back around where you are winning on the money game. You might see things on the side of the road or have blowdowns, neighbors, friends, etc.
I too have not been able to leave my area of growing up. I live 4 miles from the homeplace. I even tried to go to aircraft mechanics school in Alaska (they have the best school for that stuff). I lasted 2 months and got so homesick and depressed it felt like I was slowly dying. It's just the way it is sometimes.
The independence on the farms is just the word I was looking for but staggered my way around it like a drunken fool. See? You just helped. :)
And I don't have a bunch of people I can help around here either but the way we can help is by remembering there's lots of people that read this forum and by them reading about your mill they'll know what works and what doesn't work. You may say dozens of people butt-aches by posting pics and discussing in length about everything you've done.
I think this forum is awesome in that I don't feel like an outcast or weirdo anymore. Every time it gets mentioned that I'm trying to mill lumber I always get, "Why don't you just go buy it? It's easier." Well, if money was no issue that's great. But now I have a mill for the rest of my life and can just keep milling to complete my projects. Hopefully. If my health holds out. :-X
Ox
Everybody keeps asking me what I am going to do with it, what do I need the wood for. I just tell them, I don't know but if I need the wood for something and I decide to do it, I will have wood.
Thanks
gww
Picture of my new rickoty speed reducing belt system.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000434.JPG)
Thanks
gww
I get that alot too. "What are ya gunna do with THAT?" I hate that $#!&. What do you care? - Is what I feel like saying.
I think some of it is well camouflaged jealousy.
I think your jackshaft looks great. And besides, who cares what it looks like as long as it works. Function first, pretty later.
Maybe someday you'll find a few cans of spray paint on sale and it'll look that much better.
Well done
Good to see you've got the picture thing down. Someday when I get bored I'll try it. Very busy right now.
Ox
Some of those poeple that ask are already thinking of how they can use it too. They won't be able to though cause I built a bunch of buggs in it that only I will understand how to make it work :laugh:. Some will actually probly help make it better before it is over cause thier personality won't allow such sloppyness and they will be compelled to fix some of it and will be better at it then me. I think they like the mill just don't understand me.
My belt system is not working but I can fix some of it. Some of it may cause me trouble for ever. The bad part of fixing it is more do re me and more searching for parts. I need another keeper so I can adjust the pully out for better alinement. I need a idler pully and strong spring for both the motor pully and for the wheel pully. Alinement would maby fix the belt eating of my home made pully because it didn't eat pullies untill I changed my drive situation. An idler pully would allow me a bit less stress on tightness but probly still not slip cause it wasn't slipping bad before and is now unless I tighten it till it is continually stretching the belt. Not a lot of room to work with though. It cuts better every time I tighten the belt.
I will never paint it cause I don't care, I might find a way to cover it to keep it from getting water in every thing.
I just want to cut wood well and today it did not cut a cedar very well at all. Lots of waves and following knots and I am convinced that most of it this time is due to belt slipping. I don't think that was the case when it was running fast and cutting waves.
I wish I could coat my home made pully with the stuff they sprayed in my pickup bed.
Anyway, I still think I got it about wupped as soon as I adress the belt slipage.
Bet you wanted to know all that huh.
gww
"Bet you wanted you know all that huh" - You bet I do. The more I learn about how you are the better I am able to try to help you!
The building in bugs part had me laughing, too funny! :D
The first cutting problem was running too fast and burning teeth. Second cutting problem is now belt slippage. If you can't keep the blade running the same and the engine running the same speed it'll do weird things. You know that and you're on the way to fixing it which is good.
I don't care much how things look either. I paint things to keep rust at bay. The looking better part just comes along by itself.
Have you ever thought of going to a junkyard and getting serpentine belts and pulleys for next to no $? You can't hold a candle to a v belt vs. a serpentine belt for longevity and grip. Any of the older Chevy small blocks work great and replacement parts are pretty cheap now. Heck, you could throw and old non working alternator up there just for the pulley as an idler. Bearings in those things last forever.
Maybe it's a good idea to let a feller you know can't stand things being the way they are on your mill to use it for awhile. Tell him it cuts now but needs tinkering. Let him use it but the payment for rent would be to fix it up some. Maybe by doing this enough times it'll be right where you want it! Sounds like a good trade off to me...
I enjoy this what we have going on here. What a nice place to meet and hang out with good people. I am glad for the Forestry Forum. :)
Ox
QuoteHeck, you could throw and old non working alternator up there just for the pulley as an idler. Bearings in those things last forever.
Funny you should mention that. I just took an old altinator apart for the bearing and it is on my old guides, you know, the ones I burnt out. I was looking at the pully on it at the time to see if I could make a roller guide out of it.
I finaly moved my motor tensioner to a differrent place. It was right after the belt was leaving the pully on the motor, it is now before the belt gets to the motor. I believe this is backwards but I had no way to use a spring like it was. I could have maby figured a way to use it on the same side as it was with a spring but I had a brain fart and thought I was putting it on right till the minute I sit down to write this. jeeeze. It was ok and didn't seem top be slipping where it was but I was throwing a belt every once in a while and it was flipping all over the place due to loseness. I put a plastic pipe over my gas line cause it was bouncing up and rubbing it intermittidly. With the tensioner pully haveing a spring and me being able to tighten it, it takes that flopping out.
I had to buy another wheel belt. I bought a keeper so I could move the pullys out a bit. I had every intention of puttin an idler pully on the drive wheel but in the end I just used the jack and tightened it well. It doesn't seem to be slipping and the belt did not flip and though I only made two cuts, It didn't seem to be streching the belt or tearing it up. Time will tell. I bought this belt at orslens and the last belt was at an auto parts store. This one was ten buck higher and I was going to stop at the auto place but couldn't make myself go to two places when I knew I could get everyting at one and not take a chance of having to come back cause they didn't have it.
Every thing was going well and then my blade broke. I don't quite get that but I was pushing it a little. I had put the blade that I had cut the two and a half oak logs back on and it seemed to be cutting ok, not great but ok. I am wondering if I might be running a bit to tight on tension as it was probly tigher today then I have ever run it. It was tigher but not more then one bolt thread tighter. I hope it was a fluke cause that is the first blade I ever got more then sixty board feet from. I had made three fast cuts with it before I slowed the mill down so there is still hope for the other blades.
I really didn't see that much of an improvement with the new blade that I will be putting back on when I was cutting the big oak which is why I put this blade back on the mill.
I have enjoyed this forum as well and may not have a very good mill yet but it was worse. If the alignment helps belt life I probly won't go the serpinteen rout cause even though it is hard to tell, I get tired of having to redo everything sometimes too.
My next project will be working on guides and hoping what I have done helps with blade life. I am not getting enough boards for my blade. It is better but not good enough.
Cheers
gww
Cool! Sounds promising, don't it (belts)? I know that blades want to be tensioned. I know that you can't over tension a blade using tires. No matter how much you air them up, when you tension that blade too far it'll roll the tire right around the teeth and chew the rubber right off but quick. Maybe even take the set out. You would think a looser blade would last longer but I think when they're looser they wander around more, increasing flex and shortening life. You know, like when you bend a piece of metal back and forth it'll break. Same thing with the blades. A well tensioned blade will last longer than a looser one I think.
I also know that it seems like in a box of blades you'll have one that's really great and one that's not so great and the rest are very good. Seems that way anyways.
I'll give you a big thumbs up for your determination. Speaks volumes.
I see you're able to give some advice to another feller building a mill from a golf cart. Pretty cool being able to pay it forward, ain't it?
Ox
QuoteI see you're able to give some advice to another feller building a mill from a golf cart. Pretty cool being able to pay it forward, ain't it?
Its only cool if the advice is good. I believe in what I am telling him but would feel very bad if it caused him more work with no bennifit. If I am out of line, I am hoping it generates a smarter person who may not have answered to call me on it,even if it makes me look dumb so they can look smart.
It is hard to do a bunch of work and get no good from it. It could cause someone to give up when they were close.
There are times when a guy might should give up and start over. I kinda think that is what "Beenthere" was saying about my mill, but for some reason, I still see some potential and it gives me something to screw with and in any case, I like everybody still like to have a success once in a while.
Cheers
gww
I believe what you say 100%. It can't be said better!
It's easy for others to say, "Just do this" and "just do that" but in reality it's much harder and time consuming.
It's also easy for others to spend your money. "You need to get this and this and this". Hundreds gone.
I find myself getting dragged into that way of thinking sometimes but try to think back when I made my first mill out of nothing while giving ideas or advice when others are trying to do the same thing (building a low cost mill). It cost me nothing but welding rod and wire. It worked like it cost me nothing, too! :D Yours does much better than my first one.
I was fortunate that I was able to salvage some big steel out of that first frame even though it took me a few days to cut out the old welds and grinding to clean it up.
Cutting some old seasoned black locust now for my raised beds. Hard stuff. Been down for 5 years and still wet inside.
Also just realized my guides are for 1 1/2" blades and the blades I'm using are 1 1/4". Don't know why I didn't see it those months of building.
Had to order new ones. Cooks. $130 total just for the rollers. There goes most of our propane money for this month.
It'll be alright, we have enough to get through to next month now that it's not below zero anymore.
Propane
I don't know how you made it through the year before last. I got all *pithed off with the company I was getting it from then and just quit using it and used space heaters with electric. I kept a lot of my house colder then I used to and they say heating with electric is most expencive but my highest electric bill was $220 and the propane I had in my tank at that time had cost me $700 for maby 250 gal. I still used it for hot water but when I run the tank dry I bought a differrent one and told the company to come and get theirs. Last year was much better. It aint that I couldn't have heated with propane on the bad year though I do use about ten gallons a day in cold weather. That company was gouging me by almost $0.30 per gallon. Now they get none of my money and I go where I want.
See you touched one of my hot button topics.
Cheers
gww
Ps you could have just orderred a inch and a half blade though eventually you will want to use up the one and a quarter inch blades. Now you can do what you want based on what you get the best deal on.
gww, your making good progress. If it works, don't worry about how it looks.
Fish
Thanks
gww
I tightened the tension up even more and cut some more and the belts seem to be doing ok. The cedar cut slow but strait, this blade has never cut as fast as the rest of them but I am not complaining about the boards. except I wasted some by not taking good time to measure and cleaning up some waves from the belt slipping days. I think I got two good boards but I got more good cuts. I was working between rain and visiting and I made my last cuts right before dark and was mostly consintrating on the belt system and what the cuts looked like. I cut some half inch thick stuff so I could cut a few more times before running out of log.
I was mostly happy except for the speed maby, I am not in a bigg hurry but the slowness make me think the blade is not going to last long. It didn't get any slower though, so maby it will limp along like this for 200 board foot. I need to do one more log and see how the belt holds up and the rest of the mill, If all goes well, I will start on getting guides on it again.
I am also going to keep adding tension a bit at a time till it quits tracking on the tires or I hit a really sweet spot. So far I had it tighter today then before and it tracked well but I ran out of log. I have to tighten the tension with the blade running under speed so I can see if it is moving forward on the tire. The new belt system with all its flaws, has seemed to make the tensioning flex less. That is a good thing I am sure.
Cheers
gww
gww - We joined a co-op propane buyer's group last year. Costs $50 a year but if you use over 700 gal. a year like us then you get it for $1 less per gallon. 500 gallon above ground tank. Just checked and it's $1.485 for us. If you use less than 400 gal. a year it costs $2.485. Everything is propane here now, including the shop. When I get my porches built, the back one will be enclosed as a type of summer kitchen like they had in the old days and the old wood stove will be in there burning slabs buzzed up with the old flat belt driven buzz saw with roller table. Old is good.
The first propane company we were with kept jacking the price. We ended up paying almost $4 a gallon 2 winters ago when others were at $3. Told them no thanks and did this here which is doable. Energy companies can be nasty, I'm with ya cause we went through it too. The company we have now is really good, kinda small time family type feeling.
I wanted to keep with the 1 1/4 for cost and longer blade life. Like you said now I will have both for whatever the future holds. Mill down the road has a whack of blades in all widths so ya never know...
Just realized you posted when I was. Good news with the belts and new drive system holding up!
Judging on your past problems I would say more tension is better at this point. Hopefully things hold up and your tracking will behave.
I think you're wise doing it this way first and then messing around with the guides. Others doing homemade mills would do well by carefully reading this post. Good job!
Ox
Thanks, One thing about it. I plan on posting whatever happens good or bad and people can take from it what they will.
gww
That there's the finest way to help people in the future.
You've tried many different things and people will want to know about it sometime. Even right now in another post. What works and what doesn't work? Now everyone will know. Very commendable.
The getting logs from my own woods is turning into quite a job. I can never decide what to cut. All my giant trees are old fence lines and have barbwire in them. The where probly left when it was logged in the way distant past. Long enough ago that there are no stumps left. I am back to using an atv trailer and hand winch so I look for easy access and can't move bigg logs. I have lots of 12 inch and smaller stuff. I looked for an hour before I picked what to cut. I ended up hanging it in a between two trees and had to mess with it with the hand winch untill it broke through. If I was cutting fire wood, I would have just cut from under the log up till it fell or got light enough to jerk out.
I have two 12 foot logs that are about 14 inch and one 8 footer and a maby ten incher that got riped in half from the one I fell (make a beam out of it I guess).
So, as soon as I get them to the house, I am back in business and the saga continues.
It is now time to drill some more holes and put some more legg bolts in the track to the beams it is sitting on cause I have been using the track itself to hook the chain and winch to to roll the log on to the mill. It will also solidify it and make it so that if I ever need to drag it around it won't fall apart.
I will probly cut one more log and play with tensioning and then it will be time to try and add guides back to the mill.
I hope the belt system holds up during all this and it looks fair so far.
Man for a little log, I really like this tree. It might have a small bow at the bottom but it was super long with hardly any taper. It might look differrent when I get it on the mill but seems in the woods to be a very consitant thickness to the top.
I can't tell if I am having fun or not getting into trouble and then getting out of it.
I wonder if this is how the adrenelin junky feels.
Thanks
gww
As long as you don't despise what you're doing you're on the right track!
On the fencerow trees, can you high-cut them? Above the fence line height? We have lots of old stumps around here that stick up 4 or 5 foot because they were cut in middle of winter (snow depth).
The big ones might have to wait until you scrounge up bigger log handling stuff.
Sounds like a good idea to get your track more solid, it'll be better in the long run like you say.
Good luck on your tinkering/next steps. Sounds like you got the belt drive much better than it ever has been.
In the tool box to the bottom left is a neat thing that tells you the biggest cant you can get for a certain diameter of log. Lots of neat stuff in the Forestry Forum Tool Box!
Ox
Dang, your good, I didn't even know the tool box was there.
gww
;D
gww,
I read where you had a blade break, this will be where the blade guides will help you out. If you look at the blade that broke, it may have stress cracks on the backside opposite the teeth. Without blade guides you are curving the blade as you cut and put pressure on the front since you have no guides to prevent this. When this occurs you will get stress cracks on the backside eventually causing the blade to break. Also be very careful when cutting without any guides or guards, if you hit a nail, or even worse a drywall screw in a log there is no telling what the outcome may be. Keep working out the bugs out and before long it will be cutting without any issues.
GF
gf
I really apretiate your earlier insistance on my speed issue. All things in good time. I am going to have a guide system but having access to suitible matirials has been an issue and having so many problims to work on at once can be overwhelming. I do think in the end, that getting it to cut without guides was a step in the right direction cause having to many things to look at at once make it hard to diagnose which one is the real issue. I also have a lack of patients and want to keep throwing in a log to cut as much as posible.
Thanks for your help
gww
I had to go to blade seven today, the last blade never did pan out strait from the box. The seventh blade just showed me how bad the other one was. It still cut strait, so it wasn't a set issue it just didn't cut.
I am still eating the drive wheel belt and still throwing the other belt every so often. I tried grinding the homemade wheel pully once and ground all the weld off and had to re weld it. I wonder if I bought a tube or two of liquid weld if it would smooth it out enough and maby hold up for a while?
I wonder if the slag left and not smooth enough is eating it while turning or if it is still slipping enough that it is being ate?
Might make a differrance in how I adress it. It is still cutting strait if I am careful around knotts. I don't know if getting a serpintine belt to work with the wheel pully is possible.
The good news is after about a month I have about 1/10th of the lumber cut that magic did in one day :D.
When counting the board foot of a 10 foot two by six cut to box store standard of 1 and 1/2 inch thick, would that be 10 board foot or about 7 board foot for those who cut for others and charge by the board foot?
Anyway, Thanks for reading.
gww
Here is my acumulation of what 6 blades got me not counting the firewood pile which is bigger now dang it. I also used the bad stuff on the grape aubor.
Every body likes pictures.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000435.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000437.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000438.JPG)
I have one log squared and reddy to cut on the mill and one in the woods.
Oh well still trying to get better.
gww
6.88 bf is what the calculator in the tool box gave me for a 1.5" x 5.5" x 10 foot board.
Looks like you're gaining on your whack o' lumber! Nice arbor, too. Someday I'll have grapes too.
Thanks for taking the time to post pictures, gww.
I think if you took your time and filled in all the nooks and crannies in the pulley it'll make the belt much happier. I would recommend the epoxy putty where you break off a chunk and knead it until it's uniform color then put in on and work it like clay or play-doh for this job. The liquid type weld is pretty runny. And when you wait until it's set enough to stay put somewhat it's almost to late to use it!
Ox
I guess I will have to walk the isials at a friendly neiborhood store when I go in for my next belt replacement. I don't ever remember seeing the type of epoxy you are talking of. Be really nice to end up with something tough enough to hold up that also dried a little tacky. My belt could be run loser to boot. Thanks for the advice.
I will check it out.
gww
I figured out what was eating the belts and throwing the other belt. I bought some epoxy and smoothed the belt out but what is really happening is the home made pully is not the same angle on where the belt rides on both sides. The belt is trying to climb the less steep side and it gets tighter and tighter the whole time. I have not got in my mind how to fix this yet and so I put the old belt back on so I could keep cutting while I think about it.
The new blade is amazing right now compared to the other one right out of the box. Time will tell if it is going to hold up and I have made very few cuts with it as of yet.
It is cutting like butter and strait to boot so far.
Thanks
gww
I know this is probly a stupid question but here goes.
There is usually a crack/split at the heart of a log. Comon sence seems to say that you would cut the log up parelel with the crack and no in a way that makes it into a cross.
Is this correct and is it worth turning a log,m because of it, to get better lumber or is it a wash no matter which way you cut it.
Thanks
gww
I'm no sawyer but I think MagicMan says to saw parallel to the primary heart check to minimize the bad boards caused by the split.
Herb
Herb
It's what I thought but it is nice to get some confermation. I have a couple of wide boards that I did not watch on and it looks like they are going to split right down the middle.
Thanks
gww
Yep, try to contain the check crack(s) in one board if possible. If it's a perfect looking crack I'll saw right into it and hope for the best. You get the idea.
Of course, my lumber is for us and not for a customer or for sale so I'm not quite as picky or studious as some of the other guys have to be.
Is there any chance of mounting an actual store bought pulley in place of your homemade one? What size is it (shaft and diameter). I may have something here for you.
Ox
It is part tiller wheel and part wheel bearing, aint no changing unless I rebuild that side of the mill and turn the motor around.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000439.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000440.JPG)
I should have tried a 2 inch on the motor instead of the jack shaft, so far nothing but trouble. Potential but more breakdown then cutting. I was getting the best cuts I ever got and then switched the blade to an old one and tried to half "Dan G" it to give it a point with an angle grinder. Got one good cut and then belt problims then waves. took all day to cut one log and only got about 5 good boards and the rest is fire wood. Still expermenting but not doing great on the belt thing. I have a small width belt on it now and am cutting but can't push it cause the belt slips and I could tighten it but then it just streches faster. Did get to add to the lumber pile though. Its a good thing I have lots of time. I will get it sooner or later or I will look for stuff to change it with, Or I will keep putting belts on it. I already have a wider belt bought but had two thin ones to go through sitting around the house.
Cheers
gww
I can now see how the pulley is. I'm sorry but I can't think of anything to help you out in this situation. I'll think on it and if I come up with something I'll let you know.
I'm hoping a wider belt will be happier on this pulley and won't get chewed up on the others as well.
i had a wider belt on it but I have added a bit more epoxy and I thought I would let the small belt wear on it a bit and maby make the ridge on the shollow side a bit steeper. It cuts ok and I might just add guides and go through the belts I have before I move to something differrent. I will be out of blades by then and 100 degree wether is on it way pretty soon and I will be done with this project till it cools down again. I am a bit on a wimp in real hot weather. I am going to keep messing with messing up my messed up blades with the grinder untill I find some one local to sharpen cause the hassel of figuring out shipping and such makes it easier to buy more new ones. I am a cheep guy but also lazy on dealing with modern things like shipping something. I am pretty sure the first blade I ground on is toast but it is an interesting experment. You tube has given me several bad ideals :laugh:
Now that you are cutting are you getting anything done?
Cheers
gww
Sounds like you have a plan of attack (P of A). I wonder if a half round or half moon file sized to fit the tooth face and gullet would work? You might be able to do a few strokes and hit the face then move and hit the gullet, then flip file over to the flat side and hit the back of the tooth.
I'm the same way in hot weather. It kills me. Last week we had several days well into the 90s and I wasn't doing too well. I actually looked forward to crawling down into the 200 year old hand well we're clearing out. It's so cold down 8 feet or so it hurts your hands digging the field rock out that they filled it up with.
Yes, I've been building raised bed gardens. Slowly but surely. Realized I can't swing a hammer much any more. Arthritis is getting into the rest of my body. Feels like electrical fire running through my fingers. Had to buy an air nailer. Works well even on rock hard seasoned black locust. Got 3 beds made at 10' x 4' x 16" and seedlings planted. Peppers, tomatoes, broccoli, cauliflower so far. Still plugging along. Need another 3 beds made at least for this year.
I truly hope your mill problems get weeded out. You keep calling yourself lazy and stuff but you're always tinkering and trying to do things. That's not lazy in my book. Keep us posted, buddy!
Ox
QuoteYou keep calling yourself lazy and stuff but you're always tinkering and trying to do things. That's not lazy in my book.
The reason I am tinkering is cause I still want some things but if you notice, I always do bare minimum and take the long way because of it.
I had a rough night cause I got weld flash in my eyes again and haven't did much yet today. Really bad night but seems to be getting better faster then last time. Time to go back to the plain non auto dark helmet.
Cool on the raised bed gardens. I really don't like anything I can't put in a row and use a tiller on but my wife (who does the real work) just loves them so I have a bunch and will get more myself. Mine are all from 10/12 inches high. Takes a lot of poop to fill them. Seems like more watering too but they do grow well cause the poop is consintrated in one place. I will be making more.
On the blade sharpining. One guy only grinds on the back of the point to make it pointyer and never touches the gullet. I think I will try that next as I was not steady enough trying to do it all with out gougeing the metal pretty bad. I would feel good if I could get 400 board foot out of my $19 blade. Maby even 200 board foot. Then if I got more it would be considerred a bonus. I like everyone would want more but if I could just get close to that I might not feel I wasn't getting at least my money back.
It is good to know that a nailer works in hard lumber, I believe I ask earlier if it would work on oak. It is one thing building with other then pine, but it takes away the incintive if you have to pre drill your holes. While it is green I can put screws in but I tried to take them out and they just break. If a nailer works it will really make cutting my own boards more worth while. Course I will have to get a nailer and probly a better compressor. I will probly be able to borrow my uncles nailer but I definatly don't want to buy one without trying it first.
Thanks for the comments
gww
Sorry to hear about the flash. I've never had the problem yet, thankfully. Hopefully it doesn't happen to you any more.
I've had some cracking of course when using the air nailer but it's to be expected when not drilling a small hole first. I would expect seasoned oak to do the same. But a full size framing nailer will definitely shoot the nails through. Sometimes when the little compressor is lacking on pressure I'll have to come along after and give a few nails a few whacks but that's no big deal to me. It's like night and day as far as the pain is concerned. I would highly recommend you get one if you can.
I filled mine about halfway so as to leave room for more poop and leaves and such to compost in. My hill just has poor clay soil with no drainage. Raised beds are our only option. If I could I would do it the old way and space the rows for a tiller.
Ox
Its good to know the nailer works. O have found with my little staple brad gun that I get less splitting then I get driving small nails by hand. Either way it will be better then doing it by hand.
Thanks for the answer.
gww
I have one more issue solved on my mill if I don't screw it up. Forum member Leggman, who also has a thread on this site on his mill build, has built me some guides and sent them to me. I had ask about his guides and he sent me a personal message saying he would build me some. I was thinking I was getting the roller guide that he turned on his lave. That is not what I got. He looked at my mill and built a guide system, I mean the whole thing and made for my mill set up. I still have a few humps to jump on install and hope to not screw it up cause looking at the neatness of his work I am almost scared to do my part.
Guides was something I was struggling with and this is a god send for me.
When I get going and get the pictures up you will see just how good his fabercation skill is.
The bigg bigg thing is. He saw I was struggling, had some mill spicific answers and volinteered. Wow.
So anyway, I am feeling a bit like a mouch by now and that maby I am using his good will and so I offer up some doe re me $$.
His answer to me was to find somebody in need and buy them groceries and that would be his payment.
I can't wait to get them installed and am hoping that I don't screw it up cause the really are a work of art. I don't have a time line that I will have it done but you guys will get to see it when I get there.
I do have a decision to make. I can cut to an 8 inch depth right now. I have two ways I can install. One will leave me at around a 4 inch deep cutting ability and is really strait forward install. The other is to grind off the water pipe that I put on the mill to help with flexing when tensioning. I believe if I get rid of the pipe that my tensioning will still be ok with the crappy belt set up I have now cause when I changed to it it seemed to have the most impact on flexing. However, Is a four inch deep cutting ability enough as the guides could be fit there with no mill modifications and would have less length which would make them even stronger though I don't believe they will ever be weak no matter what I do.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
gww
PS Leggman is the man
Holy cow! Leggman! This is a beautiful thing! There are still people out there like that, it's plain to see.
About the cutting height - 4"x4" posts are useful. You can always set the 4" that's left over up on top of another 4" that's left over and keep cutting boards from it.
Leggman - it's truly a pleasure to know about this.
gww - hopefully you know a family or person who is struggling and truly trying to make it through tough times and NOT mooching off the system like so many seem to do, all the while crying poverty and living and eating better than us.
Ox
I don't have a plan on the repaying of leggmans generosity yet and will probly do what I honestly try to do in life anyway and just watch in my circle of life for a way to help some one that really needs it. The only differrance now in my watching for that need is I now owe the help and won't be doing it cause I am a nice guy. I don't have a plan for that yet but have no choice but to try harder now. I will say it will have to be a lot of grocerys or what ever cause what leggman sent me would cost $500 if you when to one of the manufactuers. It is also very professionally done.
I am guessing by your comment that I might be able to live with the 4 inch cut rather then trying to streatch it to 6 or 7 inch cut and possibly weakining the mill a bit. I believe that is the esiest way to install.
Thanks
gww
I think I might have misunderstood. Can you only cut a 4" thick board off a cant or can you cut down to 4" from the bunks, leaving a 4" cant or board left on the mill because you can't cut any further down?
Ox
I think you missunderstood but it is a non issue cause I have installed them and can cut to a seven inch depth. I could only cut an 8 inch deep cut before. I am talking the blade being seven inches in a board before the log top hits something. With 20 inch wheels I was looking at a 10 inch max in anycase.
Look at this
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000441.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000442.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000444.JPG)
Like I said, Leggman is the man'
gww
Hey, all right! That's awesome!
Thank you, Leggman, for helping gww out. This was mighty generous of you. Hopefully this takes care of some problems.
I'm certain gww will pay it forward when the opportunity presents itself and the time is right.
Leggman did one heck of an excellent job on those, he spent some time fabricating those, they look like factory. Those are going to make a world of difference when cutting. It was great to hear what he did for you, its nice to know there are some very thoughtful people still left in this world.
gf
I don't think you can see just how good his work is. I have never seen a factory with cleaner welds and he thought this out from a distance with no access to the mill itself. It is unbelievable. I looked for his adress so I could send him something that would have probly imbarresed me and couldn't find it and mentioned that and his answer was to do something for somebody who needed it that he just wanted to help. I was scared to death to install it cause I wanted it to be as good as he had built it to be and didn't want him to think he had wasted his time with me.
I did get them installed and cut down one about 8 inch log. It was all I could get my hands on quick. It was about 13 inches onthe butt end. The guides made the blade smooth as ice and even with some belt slipping when pushed it cut like glass. Very strait and very few teeth mark in the cut. The rollers did not get hot and the settup was very solid. He has out did his self. It did take a lot of work and I am humbled. He is building his own mill and all I did was ask about his guides. I did not ask for this but did really need it and he seen that and helped. I have to find a way to help back. He mentioned doing some hydrolics on his and I am dumb as hell but I am going to be looking at dads log splitter and tractor so I can try and learn what to be on the look out for something that will help him and I am still going to buy the groceries or help someone in some way.
Ox
I still have issues but guides that work are not one of them.
Thanks for the comments.
gww
YAY! Nice smooth cuts! 8)
I'm pretty sure that when you get to your wider belt it'll help with some of your slippage issues. It'll be stiffer, stronger and not so likely to slip due to more contact area. At the very least it should make the belt ride higher up in the homemade pulley so it doesn't get chewed up.
If you're getting flat, smooth cuts with the blade changing speed in the cut due to belt slippage, I'd say you have your mill set up pretty darn good.
Leggman is very humble about this. Haven't seen or hear a word from him. Only good men do what he did. I wish I could shake his hand and tell him how much I appreciate that there are still people like him around.
I wish I had more like him around me. I've got nosy, condescending neighbors who think that you should do as they do because, well, it's what they do. ::)
I think they feel threatened when a cripple like myself can build things and do things and they aren't. I may be very slow but things slowly get done.
Ox, as you become more familiar with the forum and it's members, maybe even meet some of them personally, you will find that kind of generosity is very common among the members. This is just a good place... 8)
Piney
I spent a couple hours yesterday going through your log turning thread. That was a pretty neat thing to share.
gww
smiley_applause. Mr. Leggman, you did good sir! gww keep up the good work!
Fish
My work seems a lot better with that type of help doesn't it.
I might start getting more boards then fire wood.
gww
I cut another log today. It was on the edge of doudy near the edges. I found about eight to ten trees near a run off low area that have died. Some are to far gone. I cut four down, have one hung up in a pretty dangerous way. Three of them are still solid and pink in side. One was compleetly hollow. I got one to the house and cut up so far. It gave me five 2x6s and three 1x9s . I am cutting the two bys at 1 and 3/4 inch so that is what I call a two by. Might be maby one or two more still standing that will give something.
The mill did great. The belt still can't be pushed too hard but doesn't (knock on wood) seem to be getting ate up. I could tighen it but it is just good enough that I am going to try it for awhile and see what happens. I had no machanical dificalties and if the belt keeps holding up, I don't forsee any. I do have some heavy catches on my track where things are rubbing and on the opisite side it used to catch but it doesn't seem to affect the cut when I hit them and pop the carrage through them. I will take a grinder and try to improve them a bit but I am getting good boards.
The mill is still binding on the up and down but does seem to be losining up with use.
They guides made an unbelievable differrence in cut and in forgivness of small errors on my part. I am still glade that I got it cutting before putting the guides on but I can tell a great differrance in cutting with them. Now my boards are perfect and I am also having an easier time measuring the thickness of the board before cutting it. Before I got a bit of chopping as I entered the board and it made it harder to get acurate measures. Now the blade starts and ends exactly at cut highth.
I am also getting much better at handling and turning the logs. I am getting better at getting them on my trailer to get to the house. I aparrently am not getting better at dropping the trees, which is harder when you are trying to only take one out of a bunch.
The saw is not fast but I do only have a nine horse motor and even it could do better with a stronger belt set up but it wouldn't do a lot better and I think I am close to max potential of the mill. My next worry is that the motor seems to be burning oil. It doesn't show it in the exaust and starts easy and runs good but I ran it out and locked it up. I put oil in and have ran it for a while and it seems to be doing good but may use a quarter of a quart of oil every 4 tanks of gas and when it was a tiller it didn't use any for 15 years.
Over all if I can keep this streak going and they mill doesn't degrade, It is doing better then could be expected and I am very happy with it. I would say those that advised me to slow it down and to get the blade level and expesialy leggman, all deserve my gratitude. I am not sure about the drive wheel change but It may have had a big impact but I had so many problims at once it is hard to tell. I like what I have now.
I also thank ox for thinking that this peice of crap I built might have value even though it was a piece of crap. It was mostly a cheap to build peice of crap (If you discount the $500 it would have cost if not for leggman) and I am going to build something now just cause I can, though I am not sure what. Maby a small shed I can sell for enough to get 10 more blades.
Thanks for all the help.
gww
Wonderful news! smiley_thumbsup smiley_clapping smiley_roller
gww, I admire your perseverance and ingenuity. Glad you finally got her going!
G
I don't know if there is anything to admire but as far as being glad about getting it going, You and me both. I still worry about the belt as it is running up side down but seems to not be stretching as bad and isn't ripping apart yet. Fingers are crossed but going great right now. Thanks
gww
Ps I think I am going to build a small portable shed maby 8'x10' and just see if I am any good at it. I am interested in the board and batton siding and general building and hope to sell it for enough to buy some more blades and just practice. I doubt I sell anything else but I went through so many blades that I want to recoup and then just stock pile for later. It should give me an ideal of what type of board I might use most. I am just going to consider the time it takes as part of the building of the sawmill.
This is a good idea, gww. Get your feet wet and see firsthand what you think you may need in the future.
If you're making a portable shed, can you use some of the leftover cants that you can't saw all the way through? They would probably make good runners (like on a sled) for pulling it around to where you want it. My chicken coop is made this way.
Ox
QuoteIf you're making a portable shed, can you use some of the leftover cants that you can't saw all the way through? They would probably make good runners (like on a sled) for pulling it around to where you want it. My chicken coop is made this way.
Yes that is the ideal. The things I haven't figured out yet is.
Flooring: can I use one buys on the 2x6 joist or two bys. Ply wood would be easer but I want to not buy anything. I also won't toung and groove but could make "L" shape cut outs on the flooring boards for overlap on the table saw. Probly wont help cupping but may help with getting srinkage. Wood is very green. If it was for me I would pour concreete and not need a floor.
Board and batton siding: Should I inset the walls and then just put one by stringers or should I put the walls on edge and build two by cross beams in the wall frame. I think the stringers are easiest as we did that when building dads 40x50 foot garage. (the stringers were harder then building the walls in my opinion) His garage was coverred in metal.
Roof, shingles or tin. If tin can I do it with just stringers like we did dads garage. I will probly have to buy plywood if I go shingle. I like the look of shingle better.
Weight. an eight by ten shed built with green lumber and a green lumber wood floor will probly wheigh more then a ton.
Any comments from those who have built? I want to sell it so don't want it to be bad.
Thanks
gww
If you are gonna build it to sell either use treated lumber for skids or build it to set on concrete blocks. I'd just build it and tin it so it's lighter to move similar to a pole building.
Competing with a lumber yard or store is gonna be tough price wise, and many of them build these. Good luck.
Sorry, gww, I can't help you with the construction thing very much. Everything just jumbles up in my head. I'd have to be there and have stuff in my hands to be able to be of any use.
Maybe you should start a new post?
Maybe search the forums and look for pictures?
I wish I was of more use with this... >:(
tmarch
I didn't use treated lumber for the rails but will mention they might also want to put it on blocks. I also am thinking of using all my crap wood that should be in the fire wood pile for the floor. I have the base built and it was 2x6 joist and I am going to put my wavy, thin and just ugly boards on the floor. I figure it it goes bad and they want to change, they can just lay plywood on top. I have no intention of compeeting with the lumber yard because the can put more then one a day together. I am having to drill every hole before nailing and it is hard and slow to square long stuff on a table saw. I don't know how long it will take me to build but I only got the joist and two rails done today so it wont be fast. I don't want it to fall apart but am hoping to end up with something useful and not totally ugly. I consider this more practice on using stuff that may not be exactly like the lumber yard so I can learn just how time consuming it is to build with non standard and how hard I should try to get to the exact board mesurement when cutting or wether an eight one way or another is easy to deal with. I do believe the shed will be unique compared to what can be bought but maby not in a good way.
I am trying to find a use for stuff I couldn't quite put in the fire wood pile and make room for better and practice building. The lumber yard sells thier 8x10 shed for six hundred. I figure to ask around $400 but will probly take $200 hundred cause I need the room, get to get rid or stored nails (If I build anything big for me I am using a nail gun and not drilling every hole). I am also learning the working with oak insted of pine and will be interested in wether it is worth it or not. Blades are around $200 so I can cut better next time. I am interested in the look of oak building and also seeing board and batton in person.
Ox
Don't worry about it, Thats how I roll too, Just jump in and face problims as I create them and hope to learn and retain some of the learning for later.
I did look at a few vidios and looked up some free shed plans but can't say I am really following them. I didn't print them and can't remember with out it in my hands.
If it ends up to bad I will have a bond fire.
Cheers
gww
I already know cutting 12 foot is better then cutting eight if you don't know what you need.
If you don't have a cut list cut them as long and as wide as you can, they can all be cut to length and width as you need them. ;)
tmarch
Down deep I knew that but eight foot logs where so easy to handle compared to 12 foot logs.
Cheers
gww
It sounds like you already have a solid plan as you're dealing with the unknown. I don't see anything wrong with your approach. This is exactly how I tackle things as well and things usually work out fine.
Don't forget, (I do a lot) that your mill is the best edger in the world. It won't leave a milled edge like a table saw but it is good enough for rough building and it's much faster and you can do a whole bunch at one time!
When I need to edge some boards I try to make at least one dimension of the trimmings 1" so that I'm ending up with stickers at the same time.
I would think that if you keep your price around half of the big box stores that you'd get some business. Explain that it's built the "old fashioned" or "rustic" way with true dimension lumber and not nominal lumber. Lots of people like this kind of charm in today's world.
Ox
This is going to sound funny but here goes. I actually wanted to use the mill to edge all the wavy stuff I stored. It is cutting strait as an arrow. I have been working for a day on the table saw and only have about half of the 8x10 floor covered. The only reason I did not use the mill was cause I rolled a 12 foot log on it and didnt feel like rolling it back off. You wouldn't believe how many one bys it takes to cover a little floor and I still have siding to do. It is stupid cause I would have been done with the floor by now if I had rolled it off. You mention delexia or what everit is called. I have my own mental quirks at times which is why I will look through millions of junk and make things that don't fit rather then have to go to the store to get the right thing.
I am not that worried about the building and selling it. I am learning a bit. I hate selling which is why I give so many eggs away. I will probly set it by the road and if nothing happens I will end up using it. I am doing it more just to get a feel for matirial usage and I do need more blades. I think it is going to be an ok shed but if my intentions were to use it I would not have made it portable and that alone would save lots of boards on joist and flooring. I knew I would be slow but believe I will learn a bit and be better if I ever do it again.
There is some joy in using my own stuff and stuff I have sitting around just wasting away. Hopfully I am creating something usable out of stuff that people don't even use today. My wife was at a yard sale and someone had a bucket of nails for a couple bucks and she called me and ask if I wanted them. I told her no cause I had a bunch. If you bought them in the store they are not cheep and I should have said yes but every body for good reason uses nail guns now and nails are sorta obsolete. I always use screws. It is kinda neat to be using my stored nails even if I did have to drill a few holes. I am on a limmited income but have all the time in the world and don't need to be profesional as long as I enjoy what I am doing. I do wish I could be more professional but am gaining what knowlage I can doind what I do.
Thanks
gww
By golly, you've just said the exact way I look at things myself.
The only difference between you and me is when I get to a point that I realize it's going to take massive amounts of time to get something fabricated from junk vs. spending $100 on something that makes my life more stress free, I'll scrounge the money up somewhere. You have the drive to do whatever it takes to make something work. I do too, 75% of the time. But you're at 99%! And that has merit in my book.
I've noticed that siding or flooring with boards usually takes twice as much as you think or see in your pile. It's like gravel or crusher run, always twice what you figure. It always amazes me.
I had a 1965 Kaiser 6x6 5 ton dump army truck I brought back from the dead and restored and sold for a tidy profit years ago. I did some driveways and ditch work and such and figured real quick in my own head what I THINK it'll take to do the job. Say, 20 yards. Then I'd tell whoever it is that it'll be close to 40 yards. It always was so darn close they thought I was a pro and been doing it for years. Makes you feel good, ya know?
You're doing your project exactly like I would, if that makes any difference. There's some guys on here that are so good it makes me look stupid but I always try to tell myself that chances are I'm good at something they may not be. It's just the way of the world! That's why I'm thankful we have this wonderful forum and nobody has to worry about asking any questions, ever. :)
gww
Any pics of the shed build yet? Sounds like a good project for your production.
This is what I have so far and worked hard. Bent two nails for every one I got to go in.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000445.JPG)
This is why I worked so hard. Used the table saw rather then roll that log back off the mill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000446.JPG)
That log looks like it is going to be one bys.. I looked at my lumber and tried to guage how much I had. I thought, I have enough for a small shed. I believe I will have enough with boards left over to build the shed (though I am not done yet) They were not all prime boards and so I thought not much risk in seeing if I was gaging correctly what I really had. I figure to replace it with better boards and have more of an ideal of what I can do after this little experment. I don't think I will have enough on bys and I am not sure I can come up with a 2x8 that I need for the eves that is long enough. I have a 2x6 that is 12 foot long but I think a two by eight takes the measuring out of building strait forward easy eves.
Ox
I am probly more like you then you think. I did buy the tires for my mill knowing that dad had some that might work but I didn't want to wait. I get impatient and splurge lots more then I should. I also have my car worked on every once in a while when I know I could do it but just can't get in the mood.
The log on the mill is old but seems to be solid. I should move it cause it aint lined up anyway. I need better equiptment but don't do enough work to justify it.
I hope the floor is good for a laugh, just keep in mind I am going for utility. I am hoping it won't be an eye sore though and used most of my bad boards on the floor and now what I have left is mostly good. It a good thing my bee traps arent catching a lot of bees cause I am not going to have the one bys to build more hives which is what started my even wanting to build a mill in the first place. I ran out of boards I could scrounge building the stupid bee hives. Now that I have the mill and it is starting to work I am in a builing mood. I need to slow down cause I only have 12 acres of woods and not that many good trees in it and I don't want to thin it too much anyway. I am haveing fun though.
Thanks
gww
Ox
One other thing that make it easier to piddle harder then most. I am retired early enough to have just enough heath to still goof of a bit. I did 30 years in a factory and now have a pension. It is a little easier to do stupid things and survive it when making a living is not takeing up all your time. It is a blessing that is disapearing in america but I was lucky enough to have worked before it was gone. I will say it still seems like I have no time and am always behind. Time also seems to really be rushing by. I am the happyest I have been in my whole life to be able to play with things that interest me even if I am no good at it.
I don't have a lot of money but now have more time and enough money to not have to worry too bad. It fits me cause I really don't want much anyway. I try to find things that interest me that don't cost too much and might even in a pinch give a little though if not in a pinch I wont sell stuff cause I don't want to deal with people in that fassion. I would rather have a little extra and be able to give then to need to sell however would like to have something to grab a little if I ever find I really need it. I don't think I will though. It is unfair to be proud of my bull headedness and compare it to anyone unless they are having as few outside interferances as I am.
It is a blessing to be where I am in life. I wish every one could experiance it.
Thanks
gww
By golly, that's a good looking start to a shed if ya ask me. It looks nice and neat and that you care about it. Mill looks good too! It's good that it's cutting straight now. I'll never (willingly) forget the name Leggman and what he did for you.
I'm happy to hear that you're happy in your life and lifestyle. That's the secret to life right there.
I'm content with my life with the exception of my deteriorating health which I don't want to get in to. It would take far too much time and would sound like a pity party or something. My health frustrates me to no end when I have the drive and knowledge to do many things but simply can't. It's almost like a version of a living hell that will only get worse. But I tell myself every day that there are those out there far worse off than me and it settles me down.
I really am happy to hear you're pleased with how your life is. It gives me a sense of well being somehow. Weird, huh?
I'm looking forward to seeing the shed being built from your trees and your mill and your lumber. It's a feeling most in this world will never know.
Ox
I wish you the best that it can be with your health.
Leggman surprized me as few people have in my life. Many times I have had good intentions but not the skill level to help more then I hurt. He reached out to me with no prompting and had the skill to pull it off and make it also really succesfull. One of a kind and has my gratitude.
gww
how big is your solar system in the background? Grid tie?
Ozark
The little rack in the picture is home made solar and probly gives about 350 watts total to the battery. I am not grid tied in the sence that I can sell back to the electric company, I can't, but I do use the grid and don't make enough solar for my needs.
I have a 5800 watt system and a 48 volt fork truck battery.
Cheers
gww
This took me all day.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000447.JPG)
One wall. It was the easy one cause I didn't have to rip wide boards for 2x4s. All I had to do was square the ends and cut to lenght.
I really regrett my decision not to just inset the walls an inch on the floor and run stingers or whatever they are called to nail the board and batton on. It is decision time now as I can still do that to the next three walls. If I don't inset the walls then I am going to cheat and use screws for the little nailing rails that go inside the studs. I am a little slower cause I am designing as I go and have to stop and go measure the window I am going to use or measure my other shed for ideals for the doors I want.
I am still having to drill all my nail holes. I am so uncoordinated that my whole life I was never good at driving nails and that now is what is taking most of the time.
This experiance is going to make me appretiate the extra expence of nail gun nails.
Oh well, I am going to keep mudling though.
Cheers
gww
Ps did I mention this thing is going to weigh a ton or more :D
That would take me all day, too. Maybe two days! Looks like alot of bending over and crawling around and such.
Looks good and rugged, that's for sure. If somebody buys it, they'll be getting a good deal.
And yup, it'll take 3 men and a boy to move it.
I wouldn't sweat moving the walls in much at all. Just cut an angle at the ends of your boards and battens so the rain will drip off away from the building.
You can always nail a spacer board all the way around the bottom the same thickness as your nailers/stringers/purlins and finish your board and batten siding ending up on that. I'm not sure if you're going to run the siding clear down to the ground or leave the bottom/foundation showing.
Hopefully you follow my poor writing skills enough to see what I'm trying to get across.
Ox
I understand what you say. I also must not think things through cause what a simple solution to just add a one inch board on the base. I feel like an idiot that I didn't think of it. Don't stop telling me things cause it makes me look stupid, I get mental block sometimes and would rather know even if I look stupid.
I think some things will get better. One If I could come up with a better storage and sticker area where I could put all 2x4s in one place and all wide one bys and narrow one bys. You get the ideal. It wouldn't have helped me before cause I was cutting bad stuff that I couldn't throw away and now things are better so I might be able to seperate the wood sizes cause going through the whole pile to pull out spicific boards is taking a lot out of me and a lot of time. I was going to park a tractor in half the leanto that the boards are in but now I am going to come up with a differrent plan for that. I did get a plain wall with 5 studs in it and it needs six, so I got a little more done today.
The plan I sorta looked at for ideals suggest cutting a slot in both sides of each batton to stop capelary action sucking water in.
We will see if I go to that much trouble or not.
The plan I looked at does not take the board and batton all the way down but does want it, I can't remember how many but some inches below floor level.
I am just sorta playing things by ear and trying to figure them out when I get to them. I look at other successful plans and such and then put my twist on it. I don't do this cause their plans are bad but more due to lazyness and somtimes working with differrent materials. The only reason I am getting away with this much time toward the shed and mill is cause it is staying so wet. I will not have tomatos by July 4th but may have the best weeds in the county. My wife keeps wanting the grass mowed but I keep telling her we need to cut it as little as possible to save gas. I also tryed to tell her we need to let the grass bloom for bees and we should practice now. Needless to say my compulsive nature has kept me focused on the mill but that won't last forever.
Thanks
gww
I'm glad you can follow what I'm trying to say. I felt very good that the idea just popped into my head at that precise moment! Made me feel a little smarter for a bit.
But then I couldn't think of the simple word "base" that you used. I used bottom/foundation. ::)
You see? We put both our brains together and we can come up with half a brain and get something done! :D
By the way, I've never thought you were stupid or dumb or anything like that. You remind me of myself in more ways than one. I'm willing to bet you're gruff outside and nice on the inside. I am.
"I'm willing to bet you're gruff outside and nice on the inside. I am." I would never admit that. ;)
I believe it feels better to be nice, I wish I felt good all the time but I don't.
Thanks for the help
gww
Quote from: tmarch on May 24, 2015, 09:54:42 PM
"I'm willing to bet you're gruff outside and nice on the inside. I am." I would never admit that. ;)
:D Good one
Been following along ( gww) and i like your determination and ambition . keep up the good work.
Dusty
Thanks for the encouragement.
gww
They say if it was easy girls could do it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000449.JPG)
Girls arn't dumb enough to want to.
The mill is cutting great and strait since the guide. I did break two more belts but consider them to be due to operator error. I ran the guide into a log that was lose enough to move hard into it and stop everything. I am kinda glad I had the small belt on as it snaped immiediatly.. I also broke the big belt but figured out the cause and it is somthing not hard to watch. The pully on the motor is walking out and throwing the belt. The allen won't tighten enough to stop it but it takes a long time and is easy to watch. It gets a little far out and bam with the hammer and it is back in place for some more logs. I have the belt tensioner on the opisite side of the motor pully. I cut two short logs and everyting is peachy including the drive wheel belt. Here is a stupid picture to show the uniformity of the cut.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000450.JPG)
So any way I am about a third done on the shed and have to cut some siding and maby roofing.
Update done.
cheers
gww
Looking real good, gww! You should be proud of yourself. I would be. Nice shed, it really is. It's gonna look even better with homemade b&b on it. If it were mine, it'd be hard to sell since it's made all from scratch.
Find you some red locktite and smear it all over that shaft and setscrew for your pulley and put the pulley back on and let it sit overnight, it won't move again. If you have to take it off later, some heat applied to it will let it loose again. That moving back and forth will be bad in the long run. It'll just get looser and looser until some major work will have to be done to fix it.
Your mill is cutting sweet going by the pic of that little sticker. Just as good as mine or anybody's! Thank God, right? :D
I'm so glad to see things are working out for you. It's been a longish road, ain't it?
Ox
I am kinda proud of it now but am scared about six months down the road. I don't know what to expect with the green boards and don't want to set anyone up for a fall. will they shrink and bow and make what is strait now look crooked. I also am not sure of the straitnes now. I won't know for sure till I start putting perlings on. I am less worried about the siding although I am going to try to come up with about 54 eight inch one bys. I have about 15 oak at this point but am going to get a couple of cedar logs tommorrow. I might mix and match if I think I can make it look good. I am also considering the roof. If I go tin, it is strait farward and if I go asfault I have to cut even more one bys but lenth is less important. I am leaning towards asfault as it will take more wood but I like the look.
The above decisions are making it hard to come up with a price to ask for it. It is going to look nice I think when newly finnished. It might take shims to get really strait lines. It also is a lot of work.
It is worth $1500 in the new condition and has the wood in it to justify that price. If it shrinks and bows or rots cause it doesn't have treated joist and rails then it will still last a long time but may only be worth $200. It would then not be worth doing again (not that I want to). I have learned how far a pile of wood would go and only misjuged on the one bys. It takes quite a few loggs of the 15 inch diamiter to make a shed.
I really don't want to set anyone up for a fall and may have to keep it for 6 months are so to answer some of these questions. The biggest question being how does building with green wood change after being built with time.
Either way I am going to get to use the saw some as I need about 40 more one buys to do the siding not counting the roof.
Any thoughts on the above?
I also am suprized but the motor is using lots of oil and is not really giving any signs of it. I don't know how long it is going to last. It doesn't seem to smoke bad and starts well and has no power issue but can only be a matter of time till it dies. It is cutting great.
I doubt I use the lock tight right off due to the question of the motor and maby wanting to salvage the pully if all goes bad. The pully has a key way and if it gets too lose I could always tack a small weld and not hurt too much if the motor is really on its way out. It is running so well I hope not but I can't denigh the oil loss.
The mill is cutting sweet.
I think moving the shed and hauling it is going to be hard. It is tall and heavy and wide. If I tried to put it on dads trailer I would not get past the wheel wells. Now is when we find the real screw ups. The siding and roof line will tell a lot.
Ox
I am always thankfull for your intrest and positive supportive attitude. It makes posting the good and bad something to look forward to. It has been a long road but one I am not sorry I traviled even it the motor blows tomorrow. I have found this exciting and interesting. I also was drinking a few beers with my sisters and mom and dad today and got to tell the leggman story and all where duelly impressed.
Thanks
gww
Gww, I have to say that I have enjoyed this thread. Now then as to your "walking" pulley, have you got a bearing lock collar that will fit your out put shaft? You can use it to keep the pulley in place, we have done this several times to get us by out here on the farm. Of course we keep a stock of lock collars on hand. It would get ya by but you'll need to replace it before too long.
I built the wife a Women Cave with all green lumber. Cut the tree,haul it to the mill,pound nails in it. Sometimes all within 2 hours since the tree hit the ground. BUT all my buildings are like a shed. All open,no interior walls to keep the moisture in. When putting 2 boards together,like boarding an exterior wall,they will each shrink about a ¼". Usually less,but there is still a gap.
Plowboy and Thecfarm
Thanks for the suggestions, I don't have a stock of collors around anymore. I cut pretty low volume and an just going to watch the pully for now (probly to my detrament). On the siding, I expect some shrinkage but if I come up with enough boards it will be 3 inch battons on 8 inch boards, so it should have lots of room for shrinkage as long as it doesn't fall off. I also have no interier cover plans as it is just a shed or chicken house or whatever. What worrys me most is rot near the bottom and the lines of the shed going all crooked and making it an embarresment for who ever has it in there yard. I haven't got the roof and siding on and when I put it on it may already have waves that are noticable that I am not smart enough to cover. I will just do my best. I will at least know what it looks like at that time. I am just hoping it doesn't change dramatically down the road. I have seen houses that have really crooked rafters and they don't look that good. This is a smaller area to try and control and I hope to do good but I will be honest, doing my best, me and measuring tapes don't get along real well. I am heartened by your experiance though.
My dad has a new farmer and he brought a dozer out to clean up access to all the feilds and I am headed out there to see if I can salvage any logs. Mom says there are three bigg cedars and a leaning tree. It is already hot so I need to get moving.
Thanks for the comments and advice.
gww
Board and batten siding is good for when all you have is green lumber for siding. The very nature of this type of siding allows for shrinkage without leaving gaps. You'll be fine here as long as you overlap at least 1/2" on each side of the batten.
As for the framing - I put up green red pine when I took out most of the second floor, really it was a half-story, above my shop and had to put some large bracing in the corners running from halfway up the wall to halfway up the rafters. It shrunk down enough that it left up to 1/4" gaps where they were nailed. I just came along afterwards and pounded them back flush with a heavy framing hammer.
Using shims under nailers or purlins to get them straight and plumb isn't unusual in sheds and barns when not using engineered trusses. Take a straightedge and your eyes to see if you have any sags or humps. Unfortunately, there's always a risk when using green lumber because it can still do anything it wants. Nails will help hold things where you want when drying out but the fact remains that if a board really wants to move there ain't much gonna stop it. If it came off the mill reasonably straight and hasn't bowed much yet chances are it'll be OK. Using seasoned lumber most of the movement is done so you know what you have to work with.
You can take some used motor oil and slather it on the bottom to help with rot. Don't let the tree huggers know about this. You can say that you mixed some charcoal with linseed oil if anyone asks. Or use some black asphalt "paint" for fences and roofs.
Thicker oil will help with the oil usage in your engine. However, that's a very fine line because a splash lubrication engine like you have (any engine without an oil filter) needs thin enough oil to get splashed around until it warms up. If the oil is too thick in there it'll just act like molasses or honey and not get splashed up around. I've used up to 15W-40 diesel oil in tired engines like that, but only in the hot summer months. It helps some. Winter has to be back to 10W-30 or 40 unless you preheat the engine and oil inside for the initial start.
I hope you find at least one thing out of this rambling helpful or useful! Thanks for keeping us posted. There's more people following this thread than you think, I believe.
I wouldn't worry too much about the engine dieing anytime soon. I have a 7 hp that when I first got it running would burn up a quart of oil in about 15 minutes. You couldn't see it through the smoke. After a few hours of run time the rust on the rings must have broke loose and now a quart of oil lasts 1 1/2 and keeps the bugs away cause of the smoke. I had planned to replace it once it died but two years later it still runs like a top.
Amazing, isn't it?
I pulled an old Sears engine powered compressor from the dumpsters years ago. Engine was set up but compressor was spinning. Pulled the plug and put Marvel in it, got it loose and it still runs. Burns oil, hardly any compression, but runs.
Engines are like the human body. It's amazing what they will endure but equally amazing what little it takes to shut them down.
I have used z max on old engines before with great results. Makes them like new
Ok guys, thanks for the help. The motor is still cutting so it is still thumbs up. I bought the motor new probly 17 or more years ago on a tiller from western auto. I tore the tranny apart twice and replace gears. It has been used hard. The last time it was used was probly 4 or 5 years ago and I had never changed or had to add any oil in all that time. It set for the 4 years and when I got it back it started on the third pull. My uncle may have started it before I went and got it, I don't know. Every body talks bad about briggs motors but I have had really good luck since I never change to oil and only check it sparatically.
I may or may not try the Z thing as I have a hard time remembering what I need when I get to a store. I will definatly try it if I remember but probly won't make a special trip. I hope I remember.
Thanks
gww
I like Briggs engines. They've always worked well for me.
Tecumseh on the other hand... The engines are good and tough but I've never had a carburetor on any Tecumseh that worked well.
I cut two more logs into 8 inch one bys for the shed siding. I can't believe how much wood an 8x10 shed takes. I judged well enough on the framing stuff but the floor and siding and maby roof is taking ungodly amounts of wood.
The saw cut great. The guides are holding up well. I broke my tension pully again at the swivil piont where it had broke once before. I was in the middle of a cut and finnished and it cut fine so I cut another log and it cut fine. The belt seems really lose but is not slipping when running so I am going to use it like it is till I have problims.
I am still on my 7th blade and have did several logs and I am still using it. I believe I have gotten my hoped for 200 board foot or more out of it. I need to find the vidio I watched and thank that guy cause the little trick of grinding on the back of the blade where the pionts are makes it cut like new every time I do it. My blades may not be doing better but this makes them last for me. It may only hold for a half of log to a whole log but that is all I was getting with new blades. I am not recommending every one do it but since I don't know of a resharp shop next to me, it works really well for me.
I have one wall of board and batton on the shed. Long way to go.
Two logs in one day is close to a record for me. I cut them from the woods to the mill. I do waste a lot of time looking for which tree to cut but this amount really wore me out.
Update done
gww
Thanks for the update, gww!
It takes so much more wood and work to get things done from scratch, doesn't it?
2 trees from woods to mill to boards is really good in my book. I can only get 2 trees down, bucked, and staged and I'm about done. Body can't take it. >:(
I wish I was there to help ya.
I cheated today. I had dads tractor. It was only one tree. I got 2 eleven foot logs out of it. They were about 14 inche on the small side of the butt log. They were already dead and I lost some edge but the middle looked like good wood. I would say I got 15 1x8 and maby 10 3x1 and two 3x1.75. I end up with that cause my mill only cuts at its lowest to 1.75 inch.
I put a long day in to get that and got 5 batons drilled and nailed up on the shed and then just gave out and had to quit.
I am thinking it is going to take a minimum of four more logs as good as that to finnish the shed walls and maybe get a good start on the roof boards for asfault unless I poop out and just go with metal.
Doing it from scratch is hard. Not being able to drive a nail with out drilling doesn't help. I was able to drive some of the boards without drilling and then today the battons had to be drilled. I am pretty bad with a hammer to begin with. It makes plywood for floors and metal for everything else seem like a better deal.
It may not be a better shed but it won't look like the other stuff I have built in my life. Maby I should just start making out houses and selling them. It sorta reminds me of them.
Thanks for looking. I will post some picts if I ever get done, good or bad. I will take all comments good or bad.
I do love how the mill is working right now. Even the drive belt is staying pretty consistant and not tearing itself apart or stretching all over the place. Knock on wood of course.
gww
I'm really happy your mill is working well! That's a feeling that's hard to describe, when your creation works and works well.
That last 1.75 that you can cut to - you always want 2 x whatever for framing, right? Just remember that and always try to leave the last board at 2" and you'll constantly keep getting framing lumber.
It sucks having to pre drill holes for nails. I remember in the past working with such hard, seasoned wood that even screws were snapping off and bending over on themselves. Unreal sometimes, ain't it?
Doing this work sure sheds a new light and new found respect for the old timers, doesn't it? Imagine having to make hand split shakes/shingles for your roof! And hand hewing your beams and splitting logs lengthwise for boards!
I remember reading an article somewhere that the settlers would burn their house down when they wanted to move because nails were so hard to find and expensive. They would pick the nails out of the ashes and use them for the next house build. Hard to imagine. Of course, each nail was made individually, one at a time by hand by a blacksmith. That's hard to imagine as well!
I think of things like this and it sure puts my life in perspective. :P
I told somebody recently that if you did anything out of the ordinary in the old days, You had to be truely inovative. Now days you can do almost anything and all you need is the internet. You don't have to be very smart at all.
gww
PS I have helped my dad split logs lenth ways while young to make stave bolts. If he got layed off from work we would make a few staves for dough.
I decided to go with metal for the roof. About $81 before taxes. That will save me lots of one bys and I think is cheeper then the shingles and tar paper.
gww
sounds like you are making good progress on the shed. I would like to see pics.
I think metal roofing is best for the same reasons you mentioned. Lighter, too.
Leggman and ox
I was hoping to be done by now. It is getting hot out. I have three side almost sided and still need to do the front and make a door. I need four more hinges and I went shopping cause I had to take money to the bank and I made a list and everything and still forgot the hinges and knew I was forgetting something while I was shopping. I have been thinking for three days trying to remeber what the boards are called that you put over the eves and put tin on. I am going to go back a couple of post where ox metions it just to remember. Oh well, enough belly acking.
I was going to put up pictures when I got it done but I may never get done so I will try to take a few of progress.
Leggman, will you get to the cutting point on your mill this weekend? I can't wait.
I broke blade seven today. I did get several logs out of it and it was my longest running blade. Its a shame cause I had just took the grinder to it and it was cutting pretty good.
It is unbelievable how good a new blade cuts. It is a shame it doesn't last longer before it quits cutting like that.
I tried one of my old blades but the set was compleetly gone and it went to instant dive. I guess I will mark the cost ot the first six blades to the cost of building the mill. I am not going to try the other 4 cause by the time you have to straiten out a bad cut in the log it is not worth it. The should have me getting pretty close to having $500 to $600 in the mill. I have lost count but know I have at least 5 belts to add and was at 340 not counting blades before.
The mill is cutting strait boards, I cut another dead 11/12 inch log already this morning. I got I think five 1x8s and maby five 1x3. not a lot but boards I need. Its better then the log yesterday that I got down to a cant and quit cause it had a rot spot going through the middle coming from a knott. These are old dead trees I am milling. I think I am going to have a bond fire cause the scrap boards have gotten ahead of me. I was cutting them into poor fire wood cause I hate waste. I would put an add on craigs list and give them away but there is not quite enough and my yard is not dry enough to drive in with a truck loaded with wood. It is enough to be crowding my milling area though. I am going to nail up my new boards and then try and get one more log today if it doesn't make me quit cause I got to hot.
I will try and get a picture posted cause I am sure somebody needs a laugh.
Ox, I wish I had an answer for your threaded pipe and dust problim but had no clue so couldn't answer your thread.
Thanks for the interest.
Cheers.
Ok Update
The tin roof.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000451.JPG)
The shed
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000452.JPG)
The board and batton so far. Be neat to leave the false front huh?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000453.JPG)
The long purlins for the tin roof, see I did look at your old post ox. Been trying to think of that word purlin for three days. It was on the tip of my toung.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000454.JPG)
And last but not least. All the above add up to a crouded sawmill work space.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000455.JPG)
Enough play, now back to the grind.
Cheers
gww
Very nice update, gww. Thanks for taking the time to type and post pics. Things are looking good. Hopefully you can get it done before the heat gets ya!
You might want to do a search on here for pineywoods $1.98 setter to put the set back in your blades for next to nothing. If you're trying to pinch every penny, this is the way to do it. I think he even made up a dual tooth setter for like $10 or something. Between that and careful grinding you'll be able to squeeze more out of your existing blades until they break.
Your shed is looking fit for any yard around here, it's nice.
Ox
Thanks, I made it less then an hour and was soaking wet. I am drying off and cooling down and then going out for a bit more. I will look for pineys setter before I go, thanks for the suggestion.
gww
I just noticed you have an old Johnny Popper sitting there. I love everything about them but the hand clutch, especially backing up or in the woods.
I had a 1952 A model with the semi-mounted sickle bar mower, John Deere also. I forget which model. Had to sell it to move this used double wide in here. Tree hit our first house trailer.
Ox
The tracktor is atually owned by a guy that lives in the city. He owns a six acre lake that corners my property. I had it in the lean too where my wood is but some one bought the place behind me and the guy let him try to use it. I had it started a couple years ago and when the other neibor died I brought it back to my house. I parked it there because I thought I would start it and drive it to the leantoo but I just can't get into it. I built the leantoo for the tractor till he let the other guy use it. I could use it but really like my dads kabota much better.
Cheers
gww
I knew you'd be a good neighbor! ;)
It's good to know you've got it to use if needed. You never know, might need a tow or pull someday.
My father's got a Kubota with loader, too. They're nice machines. Hard to beat a hydrostatic drive behind a loader with 4x4 too.
Ox
We had an old oliver 80 on the farm. tricycle tires are scary and the speed those types can travil make it even scarier. I have put up lots of hay behind the old johny poppers during my youth. I drove that tractor around my field one time and decided I didn't like it much for such a small place as mine. The three point on the old fords make them quite a bit handyer. The kabota is a step up from that cause the hydrolics work with out the pto and 4x4 drive is great. Dads has turf tires and that is not the greatest but the loader is handy when carrying logs that you don't want dirty.
It is still hard work cutting and getting the logs and if I ever make the tops into fire wood it will be even harder. It is also dangerous and the l3300 kabota has tiped pretty good just like the old nine N ford used to pop wheelies when pulling logs. The bigger logs on pretty small hills have brought one or the other back tire off the groung if you turn the wheels wrong. I always keep the bucket pretty close to the ground so if it gets to tipping really bad the log will hopfully hit the ground. Interesting stuff. I could be more cautious. I got dads backhoe stuck on the bank of a claypit. Broke a log chain getting it out. I would not borrow me equiptment cause I am to rough on stuff but dad still offers all the time. I hope I make up for my abuse in other ways. I am hard on my own stuff too. I have always mowed my yard at full blast no matter what I used. I mow about 3 acres and it takes some times. I now have a zero turn I bought used that does 12 mph and that is what I mow at. I have so many ruts in my yard that it is like riding a quarter horse at a trot for ten hours but now only takes me about 1.5 hours to mow.
I noticed the conversations on the other thread about painting. I am not painting anything that works unless that is the only way to keep it working.
I think I am going to like oak board and batton cause I believe if it is like the old barns and has a small overhang on the roof, it may fade but should survive with out paint. The bee hives I made are not going to be painted either. I used to own some rental houses and have spent lots of time painting and am not doing any more if it can be helped.
Funny how mentioning a tractor could bring all this out of me huh. I must not have a life to spend this much time typing (which I do about as well as I spell).
Anyway, thanks for your interest.
gww
Ps If a tree hit your other house I see why you built a sawmill, getting even right? :laugh:
I really, really enjoy reading your posts. They usually make me chuckle somewhere in there. It's just nice to see similar people halfway around the country, ya know. It's comforting somehow.
Thanks for taking the time to do all the typing and posting pictures. Someday I'll post pics of my stuff and place. I do love to read your stories. :)
There's many others enjoying as well, just quietly sitting off to the side and listening with a nice smile on their face.
Quote from: Ox on June 06, 2015, 11:59:44 PM
There's many others enjoying as well, just quietly sitting off to the side and listening with a nice smile on their face.
;D
They are probly smiling cause they wonder how I survive. They are probly quiet cause their mommas told them "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything.
Cheers
gww
That's not it at all. I think it's joy in watching someone start from scratch and work and struggle to get where he's at and continually improve himself through determination. This kind of spirit goes back to the early pioneers of this country. It's a beautiful thing.
Ox
All I can say is that you have been continually supportive through out this whole experiance and I thank you for that. Your comments to my questions have had common sence value and have helped me. You supportive comments have helped in another way.
So, thanks
gww
GWW, I have enjoyed this story from the start. I don't say a whole lot on here but read quite a bit, and have learned quite a bit, even from you. So don't be too hard on yourself. Take care, keep posting.
You're very welcome, my friend.
It makes me glad and gives my life purpose if I can help people in some way, shape or form.
Around here it seems I'm surrounded by hillbillies (like myself) but they are wanna be yuppies. My old fashioned ways of thinking and doing things are scoffed at a lot of the time. Like reusing and repurposing things. People do that "psht" noise and purse their lips because THEY would have bought new materials and had someone "professional" make whatever it is I just made. I really hate that. They'll be saying, "just do this and that" and I have to remind them it's pretty easy to spend somebody else's money!
Heck, once I dug a test hole in the side of my little slope to see what it would take to put in a root cellar for storing produce. I was accused of digging a bomb shelter for the end of the world and was laughed at.
My aunt put up a temporary shelter "to build a boat" and I was accused of building it for myself to build an ark for the end of the world. This from a state trooper who still acts like he's in high school. Yes, I went to school with him. He hasn't changed much. ::)
Sorry for getting off on a tangent...feels good to vent a little to people who probably understand like nobody around here can or will.
plowboy
Unlike ox, you are from Mo and close to home. I will have to look up on map quest to know exactly where. Even in Mo I don't always know my way around. I am in Rosebud Mo. The town is only a couple hundred strong. Thanks for the kind words.
Ox
Nobody enjoys being laughed at but I try not to let it stop me from doing what I want and sometimes I have to laugh at myself. I have my ups and downs but figure that is life and sometimes I am ahead and sometimes I am behind. In ten years it usually doesn't matter which way it is now. I have one tennet and that is to try and cause no one harm (unless they are trying to harm me, I am not a potato.) I might cause myself harm due to my actions but try very hard to not affect others. Honestly I don't help many cause I can barily keep up with myself but I do try to not be a draw on other poeple. I try to make my own way and as long as I am doing it and causeing no harm I could care less. I do like affirmation just like everyone but it is not my primary motivation.
I understand about venting and personally enjoy yours, not cause of the pain involved but more because I have a better feeling that I am dealing with a real person and not just a shell. Plus what is good for the goose is good for the gander, I do a bit of venting and reminising also as I am sure you noticed.
You are gold with me and I have been helped by knowing you at least in the way I can know you while interacting on a forum. I am sure it would be even better in person.
I have enjoyed the project but am glad some of it is working out ok. Nobody likes to just spin their wheels. I mostly just bull through till it works out in some way. I usually over estimate my ability and everything take three times as long as I thought but I am usually proud of my little projects anyway and I also know it was done with help from here and plenty from you personally. I also am reading other post and can see you are a nice guy that tries to help others.
I also know you don't have quit as much me me me in you as I do and could tell you where truly impressed as I was with leggmans gift.
Anyway, I have found this fun.
Thanks
gww
:). I can't say anything better than a genuine smile can say regarding your last post.
I truly believe you and I would be good friends if we lived closer.
I believe most people on this forum would be good friends in real life if they lived closer. I know many of them have met in person and made solid friendships.
I also understand that friends can be just on forums, and that's neat in itself.
Keep on keeping on, bud.
Ox
Thanks
Could some one explain or post a chart of what it means to cut 4/6 or 6/6 or 4/4. I am lost all the time while trying to follow the post on this site cause I don't know what these terms mean.
Thank you
gww
4/4 means and is said, four quarters. Means 4 quarters of an inch, which equals an inch. 4/4 is an inch thick board.
6/4 means and is said, six quarters. Means 6 quarters of an inch, which equals an inch and a half. 6/4 is a 1 1/2" thick board.
There are sawmill scales that are either an inch rule, the quarter scale (beginning of this post) or both of these are on the same "ruler stick". The quarter scale should have the kerf of the blade accounted for, so you just pick out what kind of boards you want from the cant, say 4/4 (1") boards, and keep dropping down to the mark on the 4/4 part of the scale. You don't have to figure kerf in to your measurements as it's already figured out for you.
I'm not sure about the 6/6 or whatever. Hopefully someone smarter than me will reply on that. Never heard of a "sixth scale" but I'm also not a professional sawyer.
Hmmm. I'm not a professional anything, I guess. Jack of all trades, master of none. ;D
Ox
You are a master of explaining the above to me as I am no longer lost. Can You believe I have been here this long and couldn't figure that out with out you.
Thanks for your help again.
gww
smiley_thumbsup
Don't feel like the lone ranger! I remember hearing "six quarter boards" for the first time and had no idea, only after it's explained does it make you painfully aware how simple it really is.
Ok
The shed is as done as I intend to make it.
Inside
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000456.JPG)
outside
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000457.JPG)
Lastly, a really unrelated bad chicken picture that you can't even see the baby that is sticking its head out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000458.JPG)
I just put here cause I sorta get excited when a chicken starves herself and acts like a zombee and then is succesful. I had miss counted and thought the eggs where going to hatch two days from now on my wifes birthday. I guess I count like I use a mesuring tape, not that good. Threw you with the chicken picture though, didn't I.
Cheers
gww
That is a NICE looking shed. I'd be proud if it were mine. That sucker is built to last. Well done, gww!
The last part of your post made me chuckle. :D
I've had hens act like statues or zombies and others that are quite alert and protective. I wonder why the difference?
And make some guards too - It's hard to do all this stuff, even harder with only one hand or one arm.
Mike
I understand. I may however keep using it with out gaurds. I think I will gaurd the jack shaft though but the wheels, not so much. If anyone ever starts working with me or I loan it out I will probly do the gaurds but working by myself, it is a non event when a blade breaks cause I am behind the mill and kill the motor when I am not. I like seeing it working more then seeing it covered.
The jack shaft however is another story and could be an accident waiting to happen cause it is in the work area.
Thanks for the suggestion.
gww
"zombie chicken"... now that one made me laugh out loud for real :D. I've enjoyed following your journey, just can't offer much help as I went the easy route and bought a mill. Not sure I'd want to do what you guys are doing. My hat's off to you.
Ga
I'm not sure I want to do what I am doing. I think I am having fun but my body tells me I am dieing. I am the same age as you and I am just muddling through life. I am just compulsive enough that when I get an ideal in my head I can't stop acting on it. My problim is I always over estimate my ability. The chicken thing is amazing. Like ox says, it goes both ways with them. Last year I had this same zombee like chicken and a one eyed crazy chicken that would attack you like a roster with both feet (a real nut). The crazy ones eggs didn't hatch and she wouldn't move and so I put more under her and she sit over 40 days to get chicks. My dedication to my mill doesn't quite meet chicken standards. I wanted to buy a mill but didn't want to use it enough to justify owning it. I have found with the projects that even if I lose money. I do it at a slow enough rate that what I am doing is payed for and so losing doesn't seem to hurt as bad.
I have gotten plenty of help from the forum and am glad to have some one else watch my antics and hopefully get a bit of enjoyment if for no reason but they are glad they did what they did and not what I did.
Thanks for the kind words.
gww
gww - you crack me up more times with what you say! Lovin' it. :D
I especially love the "I think I'm having fun but my body tells me I'm dying". Had me snorting because I know how that feels even at my "younger" age. I've always said age is just a number. Don't mean diddly. You can't change the hand you're dealt, good or bad. My health problems makes me very old in the body. I'm riddled with arthritis and degenerative spine disease and a touch of Parkinson's and some pre-dementia. Just so's nobody can say "oh, you're just a young buck." or "you're too young to have all those problems" like I'm lying about it or something. I hate hearing that. Heard it half my life and it ruffles my feathers every time. >:(
Sorry for the rant there. ::) I feel a little better. By the way, I'm not whining, just telling the truth. I've kinda side stepped it a bit for too long, figured I'd put it out there for good or bad. No sense in withholding the truth I reckon.
Have you decided what you're doing with your nice new shed yet? ???
ox
Rant anytime you want. I was a union official for several years and I have learned not to go by appearances. I have seen some pretty healthy looking poeple that had problims that I couldn't fathom living with. I have seen 30 year olds that should have been in wheel chairs and barily getting around but still coming to work every where.
I also understand the demetia. If I have one real issue that I can see being affected most on myself it is my memory. It is unbelievable how many times I am standing somewhere and don't know why I went there. My body just hurts but I know of nothing wrong with me but I don't ever check anything out I just lay around untill I get good enough to move. If my back goes out for a month, I hobble for a month and hope I can get up when I need to go to the bathroom. I usually don't go to a doctor cause I want it to be a surprize when I go.
I feel for you and even when I am hurt or sick, I usually feel lucky to have made it this far. I know a lot who didn't. My memory is worrysome but my veiw is if it can't be changed I do my best not to worry about it.
I put the shed out by the road and put a sign on it for $1200. I don't care if I sell it yet cause I would like to see it as the wood dries. I would take much less and who ever buys it is going to have a hell of a time moving it. It is heavy. I moved it on a wet day with a dodge deisel and messed my yard up a bit. The kabota would not even pick up one front corner of it so I could put a board under it to pull it. It took me about 5 hours to move it a hundred yards. Some of that was traction though.
I am going to get some bees next week and if they live through the winter I might have some honey next year. I am getting more eggs then I can give to my circle of freinds (Don't have many and don't get around too much). I had though about setting an honor stand and selling stuff. The shed is in a perfect place to put stuff in and if people want to buy it fine and if they don't fine but either way I wouldn't have to sell stuff in person. These are just ideals in my mind and I have no set plans except I am not sitting all day to sell stuff and don't care enough weather I sell anything or not. I kinda like the ideal on a very small scale. I would like to make small amounts of money that I could throw to the wife every once in a while but don't need it.
When I get more clear on what I am thinking I will get more serious on doing what it takes to get rid of the shed. It has rained every day and I can't get more trees without tearing stuff up though I might try again tommorro anyway.
I keep forgetting to take a tape measure when I go to get my log and the last time I forgot to put gas in the saw and it was raining when I got back to the house.
I found some good dead trees on mom and dads but it is to wet to do anything.
I was going to sell the shed to mom who really wants it for $400 but she doesn't need it just yet and we would probly have to hire a mover cause of the wheel wells on dads trailer. If it dries and becomes a bit lighter it might be easyer to move. I would kinda like to see it in six months so I can do better next time if needed.
Thanks
gww
I guess I don't know and will just play it all by ear.
Sounds like you're proactive enough to put things in motion just in case but are content to wait and see what happens. It's a good way to do things.
My body hurts all the time too. It's another health thing I forgot to mention. Huh, imagine that - I forgot something again!
Mine is fibromyalgia. It's like a deep, dark, muscle type pain all over my body. Like I just climbed a mountain or something. It's a nervous system disorder that causes bad pain all over and the only thing that works for me to help deaden it is the hydrocodone (for my back) and Aleve and ibuprofen three times a day. I'm sure I'm burning my liver but I can't stand the amount of pain without it.
This might be your problem as well. It sucks when the mind says I wanna but the body says are you nuts?!?
I too walk somewhere and just stop, staring at the ground or floor not knowing why I'm there. It's not a good feeling knowing it'll just probably get worse. All we can do is the best we can while we can.
One whole entire side of my family (mother's side) got Alzheimer's in the end. All 5 of them. They say it's hereditary. My mother's showing a few signs now, too. No more than me, but it's there. Oh well, keep on keeping on.
Ox
I did go out and get a log today. It is one of the stupider things I have done recently. I really really rutted up the woods. It is really bad when you screw the top soil up in the woods cause it washes ruts much worse then if it was in grass or where grass would take back over fairly soon due to enough sun shine. I knew it was bad but it was worse then I thought. To top it off, the log I caried back is going to be worthless inside. I am going to have to start cutting live trees again cause I am through the cream of the crop for the dead ones. Yesterday I built a cedar chest out of some reclaimed cedar siding that my mom just couldn't let my sister burn.
It took all day but I am happy enough with it. I don't really like that type of wood work but mom wanted it. Now my wife has seen it and has mentioned "it would be nice if I ......."
It is raining all day again today and I believe the rivers are causing some trouble. I don't live near a river but it is a guage of the amount of rain we have been getting. No garden this year. I have planted tomatoes twice and they are just drowning and dying.
My dad has beginning altzimers but I look at him and me and I don't think he is that much worse then me at times. I think I felt my worst mentally when I hit thirty and phisically now but mentally I am ok and enjoying myself. I got burnt one time and was bed ridden for about a month or two. I figure on pain that all you can do is keep doing cause there usually is no choice anyway. The last three weeks or so in the healing process I did go fishing for a couple of hours every night. I still hurt like hell when I went back to work but tried to be thankful for the fishing time I had. When you don't have a choice we just do the best we can and that is the way it is.
I am sorta like an ostridge, I just stick my head in the sand and everything is ok.
I wish you the best.
gww
What is pulp wood? What do the pulpwood mills use it for?
Thanks
gww
Pulp mills break down wood to get at the wood fibers which are digested and bleached, then run out through a screen on big drying rollers to remove the water and make paper products.
Different species of wood have different length of fibers which is important to what kind of paper products are made.
Beenthere
Thanks.
What sizes and what types of wood do poeple sell to pulp mills? I have a hard time keeping up with other post on this site everytime someone mentions this subject. I would like to understand it just a little better. I have enjoyed the recent post on ties and can put two and two together by the explinations of what poeple are doing but I don't understand what is actually happening from the cutters perspective on pulp.
Thanks
gww
I realize this is a usless post and am also reminded of the old saying "Pride goes before the fall".
I love how my mill is cutting. I am losing money on deisel to get the trees and just not being very efficiant and needing better equipt ment for log handleing but I love how the mill is working. I would say that I would still be stuggling more then I am ecept for leggmans gift of the guides and the mill may break tommorrow but it is cutting great. My belts are holding up and the motor hasn't blew up yet. I am still at a production rate of less then a full log a day from tree to mill but the wood is good.
My brother is going to build the lake if it ever dries up so we will see how long the mill last. I may have to put a ruler on it to cut faster. I can't decide wether to move the mill to the trees or keep it close to the welder and move the logs to the mill. I wonder if moving boards or logs is best? I could only move 2/4 logs at a time and it is 9 miles away. I do have a generator and a cheep 120volt wire feed welder that might work. I ran dads old lincoln welder with the generator and turned all the way up it bairly got the job done on putting sides on a trailer. It will be about 3.5/4 acres with some really nice logs. Dad has a back hoe for loading if I move them.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
gww
Ps
There are quite a few large hickory and piggnut trees. Should I do the oak and not the hickory till I run out of logs or the mill falls apart. If it was you and you might not do it all would you bypass the hickory?
PS PS I would not be this far in cutting good wood with out the help I have recieved here.
I would cut all i can out of there , and probably saw the oak first, hickory's not fun to saw. and you can always sale the hickory if you want.
As for moving your saw, that would be up to you i guess . my first thought would be do you have many thieves around, i would hate to leave my mill setting around not being looked after.
Dusty
Two things, It would be very private in the middle of two hundred acres and the mill would not be on wheels. I see theft as no problim.
If I hauled the hickory to a mill, it would be probly 30 miles one way and I couldn't haul many as I only have a sixteen foot double axel trailer. I have zero ideal at this time what loggs go for but if it is $30 bucks or so per log we are talking $100 loads per trip tops.
I sorta like the ideal of going out each morning and cutting a bit and coming in the house and then going out in the afternoon and making a few more cuts. I would have to drive every day to cut at dads but would have helpers there on part of the weekends.
I also am not going to get all of the logs no matter what cause the dozer building the lake is going to get in and shove it all around and I am going to work around him and grab what I can to the side to work on. Looking to take the cream of the crop but not slow the lake builder down. Probly going to lose more to dirt then I am able to save.
I do have a power washer at home and dads but not where the actual clearing will be.
I think I will consintrate on the oak. I can't tell my trees apart but is there any tree I don't want to mess with no matter how good it looks. Beach, elm etc etc?
My brothers woods are lots better then mine and we are going to lose a lot of nice trees due to efficiancy and having to pay the guy clearing the woods. We thought about leaving some stumps in the lake but the lake builder may need dirt from where the trees are and stumps don't help with that. So, the lake is first and the wood is secondary but maby still an opertunity.
Thanks for the imput.
gww
If it were me, I would move the mill to the site if there's more than say, 10 to 15 logs to mill. You have a way to fix welds if needed out there, so that's taken care of. You would keep the mess, sawdust, slabs, etc. out away from your place this way. The cost of moving logs is greatly reduced. Theft isn't a worry so that's a plus. Any chance you can temporarily mount your mill on your trailer? This way you could more easily move the mill out of the way of the dozer if needed and closer to any whacks of logs that may be laying around. I would also mill the oak first and any pine also. Then pick the nicest whatever after that. Get what you can!
These are just my little ol' opinions and not instructions, by any means! I might trigger another idea for you, who knows? :)
Keep us posted.
Ox
I know of no pine in our area except those planted in yards. We do have cedar and every once in a while some are even big. 12 inch to 14 inch (a guess, not measured).
I don't see why the mill wouldn't sit on the 16 ' trailer. It is on two good size ties and on its own in not to heavy. It would stick out about 5 feet beyond the trailer but the ties should compensate for that. It would take the trailer out of use. Dad has several trailers but this is the best and longest one.
If I could keep up, there would be quite a few more good trees then 10. I have to feel we are going to lose most due to the speed the dozer can clear the acrage if not interfeared with. I think the dozer guy is figuring 5 hours or less per acre.
I will have to think on it. I think first move will be to seperate and pile as many logs as posible and go from there.
Thanks for the comment. I am indesicive at times and this exorsize keeps me thinking on it till I have to actually do something. I cut a log yesterday and go 120 board foot of 12 foot 2x12s. I got another log today but it is a curvy sucker so I don't know what it is going to give.
I am still playing at replacing the wood I used on the shed by double or more. The two bys cut yesterday will make one more row of raised garden beds nest spring after drying a bit.
Cheers
gww
Ps
also got some bees yesterday and if they don't die over winter I am on my way there too.
Sounds like you have a tentative plan anyways and that's good. Head in one direction knowing what you need to do and don't get wrapped up in unknown details is what I usually do. Just trying to save as many saw logs as possible sounds like a solid plan to me. Come back later and deal with them at that time, right?
I hope your bees make it. And nice thinking ahead for your garden beds too!
2x12s is some stout lumber and will work nice for you.
And crooked logs always tick me off. So much wasted wood to get any kind of cant out of them. Seems like about half of what you think it should be. Oh well, all the slabs go into the woodstove once I get it installed again. No waste around here if I can help it!
Ox
I have a wood stove in the shed but have way too much wood to burn for that. If my dad was still burning the out side furnace it would eat every thing including the tops. The waste will work ok but it is so small that it takes a hundred little trips to fire the stove. We used to split the wood just small enough to be able to lift and fit the door of his furnace and it would still take 6 or so peices to fill. The big round stuff seems to hold a fire longer too.
I am with you though that it is hard to waste any of the wood. I am leaving a lot lay right now and some of it is already cut in fire wood.
Yes on the logs, pile what I can save first and process later.
I got 42 board feet out of the curvy log. I have the other curvy part of the tree on the mill right now. It is 13 feet nine inches long which is max for my mill unless I add track (which I have but may never add)
I doubt I get much off this log but had it cut and though it took an hour and a half with the kabota to get to the house, I had it cut and didn't want to leave it.
The guys that cut 500 board foot in an hour would be proud that I get 500 board foot in a month. I average about 40 board foot a day. The 12 foot 2x12s were impressive though. I had to move them one side at a time cause I can't lift them. I have found that the real wet trees leave lots of sawdust in the cut and are really heavy and then I will cut a dryer one and the cuts will be really clean and the boards much lighter. I don't know my wood spiecies though. All are some kind of oak I believe.
You sure are a supportive guy and it sounds like you have some decent uses planned for your production also. (wood stove) If we are going to waste our time doing this we might as well use it as well as posible.
Thanks
gww
Well, Yesterday turned into an expensive day. I had a brain fart and droped a tree right across the power lines. I have been cutting along a pipe line on my place and when I got to dads yesterday I was cutting along a power line and didn't give it a second thought. One of the stupider things I have done recently. I don't know what it will cost but do know they sent 6 guys, two trucks and it took three hours.
I have 5 good (expensive) logs sitting by the mill today. One is 26 inch but and 19 inch small side. One is 13 feet long and 18 inches the lenght.
I can't afford to cut my own wood :D.
I knew it was going to rain today and rushed to get a couple logs yesterday (to my detriment) cause dads back hoe is compleatly usless on wet ground.
Oh well, goods stories to be told on me when everyone is sitting around the campfire drinking.
I am a pretty intertaining guy.
gww
Don't feel like the lone ranger, gww! I've put trees places they shouldn't have been as well. As well as taking out the phones for the whole back road and corner down below me.
I've laid a tree on the power lines once, didn't break them, but the tree started smoking! I kinda rolled it off the lines with the hoe eventually. I figured the tree was grounded better than me sitting on 4 large rubber tires so I was safe. Worked out that time.
I was drilling post holes for a wood fence for a guy from the city down below me on the old back road with an auger and a bobcat. Just doing my thing out in the MIDDLE of a pasture. A few hours later I find out there's no phones for the whole road and around the corner. Turns out there's a main phone line for that road that runs through the middle of tillable farmland. Who woulda thought? 3 guys came out and spliced together what seemed like 100 wires and had a good laugh at the ignorance. But seriously - who runs phone line across farmland? Why not along the power lines, alongside the road like most everywhere else?
I hope they didn't try to charge you for the repairs. Around here once or twice would be OK but after that I could see charges stemming from stunts like that. Don't forget that long, big ropes are our friend with iffy trees. I've had so many go where I didn't want that I don't have any confidence in my felling any more. I'm not a pro by any means but there for a while I was doing pretty good. Then like everything else in my life even my felling started going backwards!
Good thing is, those boys that work the lines usually give guys like us a break. At least we're out trying to do something productive instead of sitting around all day every day.
Sounds like you're going to find out how your mill cuts wider, huh? Cool. Thanks for sharing - I look forward to hearing your updates!
Ox
one of my last logs was 21 inch at the base, I got 7 2x12s nine foot long out of it. I couldn't lift them without danger to myself. I screwed 2 of them up by putting them on top of a board to try and cut them 1 and 5/8th inch thick. The must have not layed well on the board cause they did not come out a consistant thickness the full length. 5 were perfect though. I am going to waste them on a raised garden so the bad ones will work well. 13 inches is the widest board so far and it did them well.
I noticed on Kbitz's build thread the picture of the kabota. The kabota I used would not lift the 9 foot log high enough to load on the mill without the back wheels coming off the ground. I had to roll it up with the bucket. His has a back hoe on it, so he might get the big ones done if the bucket will lift it. Mine wont lift it with strait up lifting. I have to raise the bucket as high as it will go and then tilt the bucket to get the log to come off the ground. I am not sure how I am going to move these last two bigg logs.
I believe for a manual mill and my tractor that 16 inch logs would be the easyest to cut and still get some boards. I got these logs though and believe the elect. company will charge me so I am by golly going to get them cut up.
I put my solar in two years ago. The grass hasn't even grew where I trenched for the wires. My wife wanted to plant some trees and I got the holes started with an auger on the tractor. I augered right in the dirt where the wires for the solar where run and didn't realize what I had did till I was done. I got lucky that time and also did not plant a tree there. I am an idiot at times though. I amaze myself at the bone head things I do.
The people I hang with can't make too much fun of me though. I shot two deer one time and one got up and ran off. I gutted the other one and my mom took it to the house. The rest of us started searching for blood. My dad found some and we followed it for about and hour before we realized it was from the dear my mom hauled to the house. They give me any crap and I will just remind them of our deer tracking abilities :).
gww
I got the big log on the mill. I bent the heck out of one of my dog/rods while getting it positioned. This is the first time I have to move my guides out and I am hoping they are level enough that all I have to do is slide them sideways. I believe I am going to have to chop the but down and don't beleive I can do it perfect with the pith or crack in the center or whatever it is called. So I may not be able to maximize my take from the log but will tell you how it goes after cutting.
gww
First pic is log with its ears off. Look at the back dog and the damage the ears did to the mill. It is a good thing I cut such a big log. When I raised the mill head high enough I noticed that two nuts had come off the motor mount. They are double nutted now.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000459.JPG)
This is the second log from the same black oak. It is 18 inches on the small side and fairly strait. 13 feet long.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000461.JPG)
This is what came off the little sister that came above the last pictured log. It was between two big limbs and crooked and my intuition was to leave it. It took all day to cut and this is what I got but it is done now. 3 1x8s, 3 2x4s, 1 2x6 and 1 4x4.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000460.JPG)
The log on the mill is only close to 9 foot. I don't know how I am going to get the 13 foot log to the mill. The tractor moved this one buy dragging one corner of the log on the ground and one back wheel of the kobota off the ground the whole way.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000462.JPG)
I still have a maby 14/15 inch 13 foot long log down in my woods. I am sitting in the basement now cooling off and trying to decide if I want to cut two bys or one bys out of the log on the mill. I really can't believe how much I can jack around and cut so slow. I cut, take a break and think about it, then cut, take a break and think about it. Could this be why I only get 100 or less board foot cut a day :D?
I am scared to jinx myself but the mill is acting great.
gww
Ps I now have to lower my 80 foot wind turbine tower. We had a thunderstom come through and it broke the tail off. It is common for these types of turbines if you don't really have good balance and build it up really well. You are supposed to drop yearly for maintinance but I am at the two year mark. It is easy to get behind even in hobbies.
Those are some fine looking logs and your mill is cutting nicely as well - fantastic!
Is your wind generator a furling design or an internal brake? I don't know much about them but I did read into them a while back and I think I have the terms proper.
The best part about not knowing what to saw is looking back to your shed and what it took to make it. Cut accordingly and you should always be in lumber for whatever you need. If you need more of a certain stock, make more! You have your own mill, you can make whatever you want! I love that feeling.
If you wonder about the pith or have bad checking in a log just make a post out of the center and mill down to the post accordingly to what you're after in boards. Sounds easy, right? ;)
Thanks for taking the time to share your progress and to post the pictures, I really enjoy hearing from you and seeing what you're doing. It's been quite the journey, huh?
Ox
The turbine is furling desine and 80 feet in the air it take a real beating and has survived many times that I should have shorted it out and stopped ti from turning.
I used 90 amp harbor freight wire welder and it would have been prudent to stick weld that particular area.
The pith may split off some boards but they are 12 inch wide so I should still end up good. If I never do siding again then cutting two bys is best, if I do siding then one bys. I am not going to cut any one bys unless they are at least 7 and 3/4 inch wide. bee hives and siding need about 8 inch boards but a quarter inch one way or the other is not noticable.
I am cutting two bys mostly. When I built the shed I had to finnish up with several logs cut one by cause I had one heck of a shortfall. It took 54 eight inch one bys and around the same 3 inch onebys and that doesn't count the flooring.
The logs were big and the pictures just don't really show it. It really filled the mill when the butt was still 26 inches. I still only ended up with a 14 inch cant. the log was a strait 19 inches if you discount the butt ears. I do waste some wood here and there due to not using a ruler well and poor judgment.
I have found both in using and cutting that if I square the end I am cutting from with the chainsaw everything works better. This big one was wider then my chainsaw and it was to hard to get square but when I take the time it is worth it. It really helps in building to have a square end that does not need cutting again.
The big logs and the big ears or bumps are very hard on a mill and to work with. I could not have did this log with out dads tractor. I have cut 21inch butt and 18 inch small end with out the tractor but odd shapes on a log really make it impossible. A fairly round one even with a little bow, I can usually get done with out the tractor but apparently 5 extra inches is alot cause I could not have did this one or the small weird shaped one. Something to consider when I give dad his tractor back.
I let my son inlaw cut a board today. I think he was impressed even though it is only nine horse and cuts kind of slow. He has a forister degree and was valavictorian (or what ever) of his colledge class. I on the other hand joined the army at 17 and didn't finnish school. Not that my spelling shows any of that ;)
My daughter is an eye doctor. I tried to raise them right but they just wouldn't listen to me. My wife kept sending them mixed signals by telling them they need to do good in school cause they didn't want to end up like or with some one like me. I kept telling them, the teachers isn't god, they arn't always right but I guess my wife had more influince.
Oh well, a bunch of crap you didn't need to know except that it was still me and my mill that impressed them a bit. I think there is some kind of moral in that little story.
Cheers
gww
PS What I really need is to ad the second twenty feet of track but I can't seem to get up the will power. I built an 8 x 10 shed due to the limmitations of my board lenght. There are probly ways to build strongly with shorter boards and still end up with tall/wide buildings but I don't have the knowlage or skill yet.
I've always known that the blue collar guys are the ones who get things done and make the world spin. When the white collar guys need something done, who do they go to? Blue collars. But on the other hand, when we need to see a doctor or get eye glasses we need the white collar guys to help us. It's a symbiotic relationship, really. I just wish some of those white collars didn't keep looking down their nose at us. I realize they all don't do that but enough do for me to take notice. I think you showed a fine lesson to that boy. I hope it sticks.
It's a good feeling having your homemade mill take care of big logs, isn't it? 8)
Maybe an idea for you in the future for log handling is making a log arch big enough to straddle your mill so you can get logs on without needing that tractor? Or maybe set up a parbuckle system to use a vehicle to "winch" the logs up and on from the side. I wouldn't like the feeling of wanting and needing a piece of equipment and not knowing if I'll always have it when I need it.
ox
QuoteI wouldn't like the feeling of wanting and needing a piece of equipment and not knowing if I'll always have it when I need it.
I don't either, however, I don't need the wood and can't justify getting too many things that I just won't use enough. I need to build a log arch but like the mill don't need it enough to spend lots of dough. I do some times get things that I don't use a lot just cause I really want them. Just a winch and a couple of stratigic placed ancores to use it from would solve quite a few handling issues but I am not going to but one right off. I will watch for something that works and then one day when I am flustered enough I will go get one no matter what it cost. Mostly I am piddling and learning and hopefully after beating myself up trying to keep up I will have learned enough to get or make just the thing I need. Till then I collect ideals and file them away so that hopefully I can see oppertunity if it is staring me in the face.
I complain here but get quite a few good ideals because of my complaining.
I really like seeing what poeple are doing and what ideals I can steal for myself. I like your log arch ideal but haven't been able to get the matirials in a fassion that is justified by my small amount of cutting and need.
Keep throwing your ideals at me cause I am loving it.
Thanks
gww
If you have a lawn or garden tractor or a four wheeler, parbuckling works well and requires just some cable or chain or a combo of both. I remember seeing some threads on here about it and there's a few videos on youtube on it. Very simple and rugged if done right. I use it on the bigger logs using a hand winch. Your mill sits on the ground or close to it and would be faster and easier for you to use a machine, even your car, to parbuckle with! Something to consider, anyways.
Ox
I didn't know that is what it was called till I looked it up on you tube but I do put my logs on the mill like that with a hand come-a-long. I haven't figured out how to get them on my little trailer in the woods using that method and I haven't figured out how to use it to turn logs on the mill with out it putting too much pressure on the mill and bending things. I bent things once just rolling a log on the mill cause of how I had it hooked up and didn't relize I was at the end of the pull and needed to reattatch it for more distance. I felt stupid that time but came up with less stressful ways to roll it on the mill. I had not thought of using a pully and my 4 wheeler as the winch and may have to look at that avenue.
I have a fence beside the pulling side of the mill but a pully attached to something solid and I could pull from 90 degrees.
Good thoughts. If I made side ramps to go over the wheel wells of my little trailer I would probly need a winch with a much longer cable then my little hand come-a-long. It takes a lot of ratchets to move anything very far. My sticker lean to needs reworked as well. Unpacking and packing boards due to differrent lenghts is killing me. It also just won't hold enough boards and give me enough walking room to be able to stack and unstack. I split the one bys and two bys on differrent pallets but then I cut differrent lenghts and widths and it leads to stacking and unstacking.
It would take a lot of resources to be efficient in board making and cut out wasted movements and my hat is off to those who have got the prossesses down. Your earlier ideal of just keeping cants around and cutting what you need when you need it has more and more merrit. If it were not for wanting to get some boards dry, I believe it would work the best.
Just thinking out load here. It is on my mind cause I just stickered and stacked the boards from the log in the picture on the mill and my back is killing me.
Cheers
gww
I know the overwhelming feeling of so many variables that can happen and being afraid of making the wrong choice. I can also relate to the different length stacking - that's the worse there is! Sounds like you need a day or two to rest up your back. You don't want to be crippled up in the middle of everything now.
I really don't think there is a perfect answer to sawing lumber, not knowing what you might need, and having a backup plan all at the same time unless you have a huge yard, huge woodlot and lots of equipment and time. These are luxuries most, if not all, of us don't have.
Maybe saw at 2 1/8" for 2x and you'll be able to throw it back on the mill and split it for 1" stuff if you need it? Heck, if you saw right at 2" and split it, you'll still have 2, 7/8" boards. I think. You might want to check my numbers and ciphering including kerf taken out. Me and numbers are NOT friends. I'm just rambling hoping to maybe turn on a light bulb for ya.
Ox
QuoteMe and numbers are NOT friends.
And mesuring tapes hate me and I hate them ;D
gww
Well broke blade eight today. I am down to two blades left before I am destitute. I do not like not having extras around incase I am in the middle of wanting to do some work and have problims, I can keep moving. I am going to have to break down and get more.
I can not for the life of me remember how much wood I have cut with this last blade. I even went back in this thread trying to figure it out. I was wanting to remember so I know when I am getting close to what everyone else gets from their blades. I know I have gotten at least 200 board foot but it might be half again more. I think about 7 logs but only two where the 18 inch type log. I am not sure though. I hate it cause it was still cutting quite good and I wasn't pushing real hard. It is better then when I begain but not good enough yet. I am on the last of the logs I took pictures of and have two sides squared on it. I am out of trees for now and starting tommorrow it is supposed to rain and storm for 3 days. I am having a hard time deciding on wether I want to try a 7 degree blade or stick with the ten. I have heard some where that the 7 degree blade stays sharp longer. I am scared to switch from what I am using now cause I am getting good cuts. I have been reading the other threads on this subject but will probly just get what I already have. They where the cheepest shipped I could find.. I am going to check shipping on the kasco blades. I am using cook blades now.
Thanks
gww
I've been sharpening all my blades to 7° and I prefer this to 10°. Seems to stay flatter in the cut and lasts a bit longer before dulling. Some guys are running 4° for everything and I may try this with 2 blades someday just to see how I like it. Don't hesitate to get 7° blades, you'll like them.
Ox
Thanks for the responce. I do have one more question. I think but am not sure that I orderred the 1.3 blade per inch. I have a small engine and am also cutting mostly oak. taking the above in consideration. what is best on teeth per inch?
Thanks
gww
I think that's 7/8" tooth spacing and is the most common and will work fine. I use Cooks too, Silvachrome cause I want them to last as long as possible.
Ox
thanks
gww
Ox
After a lot of searching and looking, I ended up buying 10 of cooks exel blades, silver this time. I thought about trying the super sharp crome but they only offer packages of 20. I looked and wood mizer, wood master, lenox etc. I had cooks black last time which are I guess harder then the silver for faster speed. I read a bunch on blade breakage and think I am going to see if I can cut strait with less tension and tighten as the blade dulls. I am guessing that my wheels being out of ballance and maby not perfectly round is helping the blade break a bit faster. My guess after reading. I guess I will also sharpen the point a bit more often and see it that helps the blade last a bit more.
I could find no cooks 7 degree blade anywhere and didn't want 15 kasco blades cause they charge tax and quite abit more on shipping.
Time will tell.
gww
Yep, you're right about all the messing around with blades - only time will tell. Maybe take notes so you don't forget what you've done and what works or doesn't work?
I take notes all the time. My desk is full of notes. I sometimes forget what they were for or where to find them, but at least I can't be faulted for not trying!
Only thing I don't like about the Cooks blades is they don't take a backstop hit like Lenox or Woodmizer blades! ;)
But I do like them a lot, same as the other two I mentioned. They all seem to be good blades. Someday I'll try Woodmax or Timebrwolf just to try around. Maybe one will just totally stand out as exceptional for my mill.
A significant determining factor with blade manufacturer choice is "where/who" will sharpen them. You could twist yourself into a web.
Magic
I have not figured a sharpening proceedure out as of yet and am basically running untill breakage. I would like to get it figured out but I am not on a level to send but about 4 back cause 3 are broke and small scale doesn't seen to work for anyone who sharpens. I also don't understand shipping and how to do it reasonably. I am looking for someone local and the closest so far is 80 miles away.
Ox
I thought this thread was a pretty good note pad as I haven't left much out but I couldn't figure out how much the last blade cut from it.
Cheers
gww
Quote from: gww on July 02, 2015, 02:26:03 PMand am basically running untill breakage. gww
That is really not good, but you knew that already. My comment was suggesting that you use one manufacturer/source so that resharp could be an option. WM resharpens only WM blades because of different profiles. The cost for 10 blades resharpened including shipping is ~$100. All things considered, that is not a bad price.
Magic
What do you use to ship to them (ups, fedx)?
That is not bad if the metal is not already fatiuged from a bouncy mill. Cooks has a resharp but charges more for six blades or less. I have not added cost cause I don't ever ship anything and live in the boonies and am not exactly sure how to go about it.
I admit that I am a dummy.
Thanks
gww
WM has a shipping contract with FedEx. Mine are shipped each way in an ~18" cube box that holds 10 blades.
I guess I should have checked harder. It is hard when you are cheap and know nothing to boot. If I make it through all my new blades (which is questionable) I will have to look harder. I spent 5 hours on the computer yeterday looking at differrent blades but didn't know what to do. I think I had blades orderred from every company so I could check shipping. I think wm was $30. I then cancelled the order. I thank you for the info and kinda wish I had had it earlier. I am hoping I am picking up some things from you smarter guys so that I get a bit better at this. It did say that the blade profile of the blades I bought could be sharpened with wm sharpening system.
Quote from there site.
QuoteCook's Excel™ Bandsaw Blades - Not your average bandsaw blade, but you can sharpen like one
The Xcel™ blade incorporates an industry standard tooth profile while providing a superior body for performance sawing. By having this tooth profile, it allows sharpeners set up to grind common profiles found on brands such as Simonds, Lenox, Munkforsager, and Woodmizer to grind the Xcel blade as well.
I wonder if wm would sharpen these blades? Do they also have a minimum prosses number?
I like fedx. I have only sent one thing with them and they came to my house to get it.
I wonder if it is a waste of time to contact wm?
I guess I will see what I can find out on their site but if you have an answer that stops another long internet search I would be happy to have it.
Thank you for your help so far.
gww
I called cooks and they said it is usually around $20 to $30 to ship blades back depending on where you are. So It is $75 for ten blades to be sharpened and then $50 to $60 to have them shiped both ways. That is $125 to $130 for resharp if all the blades are good enough for resharp. New blades are $178 shipped. So that is about $50 savings unless two blades are too bad and if it is three blades I start losing money. I would like to save but am worried that I might not really be saving. I have zero experiance on this stuff and don't know what I will have when I get my sharpened blades back.
Thanks
gww
I did look wm up and notice they have a resharp shop in Mt vernon Mo. It is over three hours from my house. I have a daughter that lives in springfield Mo that looks to be about 30 miles from there. There is a resaw shop 80 miles the other way but I never go that way now that I am retired. I lived an hour away from wood mizer head quarters in indianapolus for four years till two years ago. I don't see any real easy avenues as of yet.
gww
Honesty... Take one of your old blades that you have givein up on and take a deamal to it.
I'm useing 5/16 normal stone and it take me about 5 min the do the blade and
I'm not even taking it off the saw... I am very happy with my results.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Dsc03182.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/DSC03184.JPG)
Kbitz
I thought that is what a deamal was when you mentioned it earlyer but with pictures, now I know. I have been sharpining the points from the back. I have a couple of blades that I believe are sharp but the set is gone on one side. I seen a home made setter on ebay for $35 bucks that I almost bought. It isn't worth it cause it really looks easy to make but I haven't made it yet. My total consintration has been getting logs and getting them on the mill and then cutting at my leisure. I am to the point that it is cutting bairly good enough and I sorta know my cost on the blades even though they are much higher then they need to be if I would just take a little time to make a setter and ballance my wheels and maby work on getting them more round.
My problim is it is putting good boards in my lean to and my lean to is not full and I am having a hard time switching gears.
I appretiate that you also mentioned the size deamal you are using as now I can try to find one. I don't have the driver for the stone either.
I sorta like what you are doing cause it fits my anti social style to be able to just get by at home with out having to leave.
I really like what you are doing with your mill. I just can not justify going that far for my needs and probly don't have the skill anyway. I rushed through my build with one goal and that was to make enough boards for my needs and I have pretty well hit that mark. Now I do need to take a bit of time to try and make those boards a little cheeper.
Thanks for posting here.
gww
PS except for the 4 blades with bad set. The others I have given up on are in one long peice. I have broken them. I do believe that if I kept them sharper sooner and more often that I would not break them as soon. I have read what the manufactures say about band breakage and sharp blades helps even on a poor mill.
Quote from: Magicman on July 02, 2015, 04:09:59 PM
WM has a shipping contract with FedEx. Mine are shipped each way in an ~18" cube box that holds 10 blades.
I noticed that Fed X label in the box but I always send mine UPS as they are a lot closer to me. Is this dumb on my part? I do the 10 blade boxes also.
Guess you can just call me old school...
Yesterday my radial arm saw was pinching the boards.
I took a marker and marked one tooth.
I then grabed my adajustable whench and hand bent every other tooth to the left.
Then the next every other tooth to the right... Works great.
So when I think my bandsaw blade needs set i will find a way...
Do you sharpen just the face and part of the gullet where the stone fits like in the picture or do you hit the back of the tooth and the whole gullet as well? As in a big "C" shaped sweeping motion. If this works it seems like a viable option for many folks.
As far a an old timey quick setter, why not an old piece of railroad iron (track, rail). The old timers used these for setting the old misery whips (two man crosscut saws) and I don't see why it wouldn't work with a little practice and a caliper to check the tooth set. The rail is made with a weird shape and the set will vary depending on where you place the blade before you strike it.
I only sharpen the gullet right behind the tooth.
I think this keep the shape of the tooth and changes nothing.
Taking some off the top of the tooth would change the shape of everything.
On my blades the 5/16 fits right into the blade degree.
Sorry but I do not know what degree my blades are. So this size stone might not be the right stone for you.
Also taking off the top would be taking some of your set.
I could not believe how well this works. Cuts great and was so easy to do.
I dont even tilt the dermal. Striate cut on each tooth.
Stones can be had real cheap on E-bay.
Gf
I can't answer for magic but the last time I had a return address sticker from a company, fedx picked it up at my house. You cannot get closer to home then that.
K
I am like that alot. I really like not having to deal with outside entities if I can figure it out myself. I will eventually get to it but no matter what, didn't want to run out of blades that would cut incase when I get to it, it doesn't work well. I also have cut up several loggs that I cut into lumber, into fire wood. I did this while working through previous problims. I am having a hard time sacraficing a log for a trial at this time. I will soon but was in a board hording spell since getting rid of my stockpile on the shed I built. I really want some boards to be drying for a while. I don't really know if I am going to like working with dry boards but want some cause I am thinking if some of them end up as raised garden beds or something I heard dry last longer in contact with the ground. I really like that you tell things that you have did that worked for you. I am a copy cat and since I know I am not an original thinker, I spend my life collecting things I want to try or might need from others.
Keep sending me things to try that make my life a cheaper exsistance. The more I can do for myself the more independant I feel. I don't even want to make a lot of money, I just don't want to spend all mine to the point I have to quit playing with my little hobbies.
Ox
I don't have calipers either and have never used one. I get the ideal but am a bit sloppier in my mesurements in most things. I seen a dreamal on youtube that had sort of a guide and went around the whole tooth. I was having fair luck with just angle grinding the back of the point but can still tell a real differrance when adding a new blade. I was still breaking blades but had improved my board foot by more then double. The last blade I did, I got in the gullet a bit and it started cutting a little wavy and then broke. For $35 bucks it is almost worth buying the ebay setter which is just like pineywoods. I just can't make myself spend the money when if I took the time I could make it and I would need a caliper no matter which way I go. I think I am just lazy or have not made that my top pryority yet. I am still messing with something on the mill every day 7 days a week but just not that. Yesterday was the first day I didn't atleast spend 2 hours and sometimes 12 hours on the mill. Today all I did was make a half pallot to put boards on. I canned 5 quarts of peaches though.
You know I love you guys ideals
Keep it coming.
gww
Good, cheap info to be had here, that's for sure. People have already sharpened this way and here's another testament to it working.
If I were you gww, find a cheap rotary tool (check Craigslist) and do what Kbeitz is doing. Then figure out a setter of some sort and you'll have at least twice the life out of your blades. If you pull them when you notice they're getting dull you should get around 6 times the life. It's more messing around but it's saving you money.
There's two forms of currency in this world - time and money. If you don't have one you better have the other! :) ;)
Only one thing I would do different. I would hit the full gullet to get rid of microscopic cracks that form there. This is the leading cause of blade breakage. Grind the cracks away before they get bigger equals longer lasting blades.
Ox
I don't know if this is worth reading but I read it again yesterday.
http://www.cookssaw.com/index.php/sawmill-blade-insight/the-real-scoop-on-gullet-grinding
My take on it is it doesn't help to grind the gullet but it doesn't hurt and it really helps if it means you are always getting the other part sharp for cutting sooner so the stresses are less in the gullet.
They may just be hyping a product, but it sorta makes sence that sharpining often is good. I would have to sharpen after every single log and near the blade break point usually do. It has helped but may still not be soon enough or sharp enough.
I may never get total life that could be expected if you believe the bounce factor to the level the above link believes it.
Thanks and hope to hear more thoughts from you.
gww
Ps to your point, getting rid of the cracks is like in glass, you try to stop it before it spreads.
Well I'll be DanGed. That's the first time I've read about that. It makes sense too. Now everything I've been taught is upside down. But I still have to get the gullet when sharpening to keep the profile correct for "optimal" sawdust removal. It just appears that it isn't as important for the reasons I thought. Very interesting article, thanks for sharing that!
I'm thinking that even it the complete tooth/gullet profile changes (gets shallower) when not getting the gullet, those of us with smaller, homemade mills will probably not even notice or hardly notice the difference when the gullet gets shallower from just sharpening the tooth itself.
It's the same thing with not having razor sharp mower blades. Sure, it helps and is nice being that way but dull blades cut too. Things don't have to be laser precise to work with milling and this article kind of confirms that. Keep them halfway sharp with decent set and they'll cut! End of story! :D :)
I have read so much stuff I can't keep up. Then real life and your spicific situation is taken into account. It is nice to go for perfection but doesn't work well for a just good enough type guy. I have little issues that I decide to live with because to fix them at times is a case of diminishing returns. It doesn't mean that certain things wouldn't help, just that for my needs they wouldn't help enough to justify doing them.
I do want the (like you said) cheap things I can do to get a bit of improvement and am always on the look out for those types of things.
I know the guys who have employees they are responcible for and famliys that relie on there ability need to take the little efficiancys to a higher level if they want to survive. I get to pick and chose. I am losing money on this hoby except for that I don't have to count my time at all and that helps make up for some of the loss.
I have all these things we talked about today in my mind and will watch for oppertunity on all fronts to make improvements but probly based on what I see from now and need the worst. Translation: I will be danged slow about it.
I am still glade to know what to watch for and try.
Thanks
gww
Well I have been a machinist all or most of my life.
I do a lot of welding and fabricating. So I know a little about metal stress.
I also do metal hardening and I have my own oven made to do this.
My opinion on this is any metal will develop stress and cracks when moved or bent many times.
This is why some things should be bolted together instead of welded. It needs to move.
Every time your blade runs around the wheels it's bent back and forth.
Metal can only take this for so long. I think the reason is happens in the gullet is because thats
the spot with less metal so it's the easiest part of the blade to bend.
So I think most of the bending of the blade is in done in the gullet.
I don't think any amount of grinding going to change that.
The only way it might help is you might be removing a small crack that starting to grow.
But if a crack has started that means that part of the blade is the easiest and weakest part
and you not going to stop it from bending at that point so your crack will continue anyway.
Just my $0.02...
OK guys, looks like you have a sort of handle on sharpening. Sharp is important, but so is set.
go here and build yourself one of these.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,50749.0.html
Takes care of the set problem with just about zero expense.
Piney
I have read your thread numerous times and also your thread on the log turner. I love that you shared. The guy on ebay is selling your design for 35 bucks free shipping. It has been on my to do list but what I was saying above is lazyness and inertia is getting in the way. I am throwing nothing away and if the motor doesn't blow there will be a day that I tackle this. I might even remember to by the cheep plastic caliper you mention. I don't go to the store unless under duress and that usualy screws my brain up and I forget to buy half the stuff I need. I do intend to adress this and your method will be how. I do thank you for posting. Also as stupid as it sounds for a guy that made his own chicken plucker (me) I do have this erge to buy the ebay one and be done with it with out the work even though free with the stuff I have laying around makes more sence.
I do shop better on line than in a store if shipping doesn't kill me.
I still love that you post these things. Log turning is one of the real buggers for me on my mill. I don't at this time think I will be cutting enough to justify adding it for what, about 1000 bucks but glad it is there incase I change my mind.
Ox in this thread has pointed your setter out to me in an earlier post.
Ox is on the ball. Piney I will be watching your post like always.
Thanks
gww
Ps piney I also saw your bridge. I steal as many ideals as i need and it may also come in handy on my dads place.
Piney is one of the "men" on here as in "you're the MAN!" :) I wish I had his mind and a new body and I'd be unstoppable.
Two updates.
My tension bolt set up went south on me. I just could not get a nut to stay welded to a metal plate. Today I just ground off most of the weld crud and cut up a sissor jack and welded the metal I left attached to the sissor jack to the plate I was trying to weld the nuts to. I used the stick welder and a 6011 rod and it seems to have welded easy. My cheapness may still come back to get me. I had two sissor jacks, One heavy and one light. I just couldn't make myself cut up the heavy one so used the light one. The one bennifit of the light one is it has a swivil handle attached to it. That is handy and since I am losing my stearing wheel I was using to tighten my tension, it is noce to have something that is attached and can't be lost (if it holds up).
Either way I am thankfull for little johns build thread (I think I got that right). I would have never thought of the jack otherwise. Time will tell if it is an improvement and if it holds up.
I also did buy the $35 tooth setter off ebay. It was supposed to come with a instruction vidio but didn't. It does however seem to be made well enough and was not something I wanted to tackle cause it has 4 nuts welded on it and I am having no luck welding nuts. I have ran one of my bad blade through it twice now and then put it on the mill. I am basicaly doing it by trial and error as I still have not bought a caliper. I was haveing no luck getting it set enough to get the blade to stop diving and come in the house and look on the internet on where I should be trying to get the bend. I believe I have my answer from looking at a cooks vidio on their single setter. He said it should bend close to the gullet cause it is heat treated above that and that you have to over bend due to it springing back some. I am only trying to do one side of the blade at this time. The blade is really sharp but has no set on the wheel side. I have four blades that I may get some use out of if I can get them cutting strait. Another interresting thing that the vidio said was the set being perfect is not really that important as long as it makes it cut wide enough to clear the blade body.
Well I am about done sweating and ready to hit it again.
gww
Two poor grade pictures to go with the above post.
I am going to miss the cool looking steering wheel.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000463.JPG)
I know, a really poor picture of the setter and a heck of a mess around it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000464.JPG)
A couple of thoughts.
The tension bolt works well enough or is differrent enough to change my blade tracking with out bending the bolt. So I guess it is working well.
I did get the old blade to quit diving buy putting quite a bit more set in it. I guess my third time of doing it was the charm.
The setter in the vice is really hard on your hands and I am getting blisters in a couple of places. I also found that rather then lossening the vice enough to drag the points past the setting bolts, it worked better just lossening the vice a little and raising the blade in the setter high enough that you are dragging the body of the blade past the setting bolts. Every time I hit a snag the other way, I was losing count and had to get the flash light out and find my last place I had set the blade.
Over all it worked so I have no complaints.
I did only try all this out on a 1.5 inch board but think every thing is working well and that I am going to get some use out of the old blades that I had ruined the set on in the beginning of my mill build. As cheap as I am, I am not mad that I bought the setter from ebay instead of making it. I am learning more a bit at a time.
Thanks for reading this.
gww
Quote from: gww on July 17, 2015, 01:52:10 PM
<<snip>>
Either way I am thankful for little johns build thread (I think I got that right). I would have never thought of the jack otherwise. Time will tell if it is an improvement and if it holds up.
<<snip>>
gww
:D Never looked at my user name that way. You're welcome - scissor jacks (ACME thread) are made for pushing and pulling, a regular bolt thread is not and wears out quickly.
I was trying to set up a user name on another forum (35,000 users) and, of course, John was taken. So I tried adding part of my last name (JohnSaw), but that was taken :(. So I added my first initial and came up with LJohnSaw. To keep my life simple, I use the same name just about everywhere. On this forum, it kind of takes on a new meaning - Little John Saws :D :D, though I don't think of myself as little, I like food too much.
Glad the setter worked out. Salvage a few blades and you come out ahead of what you spent
ljohn
That shows my memory. I am glad you used all the smileys. I also believe you posting your build has bennefitted me. Thank you
East
I agree on the cost of the setter. I just couldn't make myself tackle it myself. I wish I could find some cheap blades at the scrap yard like Kbietz did durring his build. I would play with them till I started ruinning too many logs then I would buy new again. I like learning what might work and consider the cost part of my education.
Thanks
gww
For what it's worth, gww, too much set is better than not enough set. Too much will rob you of horsepower in the cut and leave lots of sawdust on the boards but will always cut. Not enough will bind and pinch in the cut, robbing you of horsepower and heating the blade and causing wavy cuts. I would rather brush sawdust off from straight boards than looking at cleaner, wavy boards.
Ox
QuoteI would rather brush sawdust off from straight boards than looking at cleaner, wavy boards.
Agreed, thanks for the advice. Doing the set by guess puts me in an odd position for awhile. I have one old blade that was diving and is cutting strait now but I only really worked on one side of the blade.
I then adjusted the other side by just trying to get close to the side I adjusted to fix the diving blade. I did the blade that was still cutting good with these settings. I want to do the other 3/4 blades ahead of time but need to cut with the blade to see if I did something funky to it. The testing to see if what you are doing takes some time and doesn't in the beginning let you stock pile.
I helped dad fix a bathroom floor today and I got another log. My uncle pushed a tree down with his back hoe. I hauled it on my pickup. My back is hurting so bad from bending working on the floor all day I don't know if I will get to it or not. I had nothing but a "two by" to try my setting on so far. It is 100 degrees and I have to work on a differrent floor tommorrow. It will be funny if my back goes out right when they are starting the lake build next week and I need to be healthy the most.
I am sitting in the basement cooling off and thinking about it.
Thanks
gww
Looks like someone is selling "pineywoods" setters on ebay. I guess he shoulda patented it.
Yep, the guy said he made it with the help of forums. I wanted to make it but didn't have the skill. I had read as many of pineys threads as posible just cause he shares so many ideals.
Cheers
gww
Hope you get to feeling better.
east
Except for really hurting all over and more when I just get up from sitting, I am not really hurt now. There have been times though when it went from this to something really bad. I am not expecting that but have a really lot of work comming and am scared that murphy might be just around the corner.
I am just a wimp and should not have said anything.
I do thank you for your very kind thoughts.
gww
I thought I would update what my saw has did for me so far.
Here is a picture of the lake where I got all my logs during its build.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/20151005_144520~0.jpg)
After one rain where we got about 5 inches. See half of the logs piled up by the cedar in the field.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/DSCN1070.JPG)
What I am doing with the mill and logs so far.
Outhouse, I just love the cut up tire door hinges, they work great.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/DSCN1097~0.JPG)
Poor picture of inside.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/20151005_144922~0.jpg)
My version of a club house, An office trailer with a pavilion built over it with an upper deck and an insulated bedroom on top of trailer. Had to buy 6 4x4 and 20 2x4s cause my mill only cuts 13 feet long. The rest of the boards are what I cut.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/DSCN1092~0.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/DSCN1094~0.JPG)
Perhaps this is not much in the big picture but I am still kind of proud of it. You guys are still welcome to laugh at me if you feel like it. I am just a slob and don't mind if you get enjoyment out of me :).
Cheers
gww
Ps
This is how I get the logs to my house.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/20150803_193958.jpg)
Dodge diesel
I ain't laughing, I like it. 8)
Thanks magic
gww
Love the outhouse. All ya need is a Sears/Roubuck catalog!
I've watched your progress and frankly I'm impressed with you build and use of your resources, nice job. 8)
Bates
Thanks, reading is important.
Tmarch
Thanks, the hinges for the out house come from the tiller I took the motor from to build my mill. The mill is slow as molasses and I have issues that I still have to work around and I am still learning. I wouldn't want to cut furniture grade boards but for rough construction I am doing fair and haveing fun such as it is. I did find that an air nailer and screws is better then drilling every nail hole like I did on my shed.
Thanks
gww
I'm jealous, gww. Thanks for the update. Appears, despite some battles and setbacks, your mill has done good for you...or have you done good for it??!! I dunno...you are a very resourceful fella, and should be proud, everything looks great!!! Inspiration!
Sounds like you need to add an extension to your mill. ;D
That all does look good. My Grandfather use to use thick leather pieces for door hinges. It works.
Lookin good .... I like it.
Bk
I hope your new mill is doing what you hoped for.
thecfarm
I atcually have more of the same rail the mill rides on and also the same ties it is sitting on and it would only cost time to lengthen the mill. I get urges but am basically a lazy guy and it seems when I get it just good enough to barely get by, I find it hard to keep improving. I also wanted to use leather but it is not. as common to find as it used to be.
Kb
Thanks, The clubhouse is on my brothers land and the lake is on mom and dads land and the out house and the wood to build and my labor is my contribution to what is basicaly my brothers dream. For my part I needed to build something or quit cutting boards cause I had run out of storage. I figured this stuff was good practice of building with my boards so I could learn a bit more. I want to build a barn like structure on my place Though my wife is not that excited with the ideal cause she is afraid it won't look good enough and that I will get more junk if I have a place to put it. I am going to cut toward the barn but am not sure if I will follow through or not.
Thanks for looking everybody.
gww
Thanks all
I don't see a single thing to laugh at here, gww. You've come a long ways from where you started and you should be proud of yourself. I haven't built a single thing this year except for a chicken tractor. Thanks for sharing and keeping us up to date and for posting pictures. This thread is no doubt an inspiration and a source of knowledge for more than a few people looking to do similar things. smiley_thumbsup smiley_sun
Another idea for hinges - maybe some old work boots cut up? Soles or the leather parts folded over on itself for more thickness? Tires are great for many things.
Hey Ox
Good to hear from you. Couldn't have did it without you, leggman and a couple others. I was spinning my wheels pretty hard before the advice I recieved from the forum.
Cheers
gww
Thanks gww for remembering me...says something bout a fella...new mill working out, still paying for itself...things aren't always easy, as you know, but we keep going. Your pictures prove u ain't lazy!!! Thanks again for reminding us all of humble beginnings, and progress!!!
Bk
I am lazy and it makes me really slow. I do keep piddling but unlike you, me being me, I would have no hope of making a living doing this type of stuff. Unlike you, I worked for someone else till retirement age and now can play with things that intrest me. I have no lack of confidence and feel I can tackle anything but it always takes me minimum of 3 times longer to do them then I thought it would and 6 times longer then someone who is good at it. I do move forward rather then backwards by trying though. Thanks for your comments and yes I do remember you and hope it is all working out well for you. I am sure it will cause now that you made the move, making it work is all that matters. Second guessing is over. I don't always comment but I do watch your progress through your post on the forum. I am proud of your guts.
Cheers
gww
Gww looks great, glad to see what you've been up to. As I recall you had a few health issues during all this so it wasn't any easy road, don't discount your efforts too much. Keep us updated. Take care bud. smiley_clapping
plowb
Nothing dangerous health wise like some on here deal with. I did get taken out of action three times with some kind of eye issue that I thought was weld burn till this last time. Its all good. Thanks
gww
Gww, your lumber and construction look great! Keep plugging along.
fishp
Thanks
gww
Well sorry to revive this old dog of a thread but this is also sorta a juornal of my mill build and when I have updates, I try to put them here.
My pull rope on my 9 horse briggs had broke and I re-tied it at half lenth and with starting fluid was getting it to fire but not start. I have went through about 4 cases of oil using this motor since building the mill. Not cheep.
I just bought a duromax 18 horse motor for it today. $319 shipped to my house.
In one way it was kind of a stupid move cause I was getting enough boards for my needs with the nine horse and I am sure that if I looked around a bit, I could have found a 7-9 horse motor to replace it for free.
This was just one of those want buys. The new motor will have electric start (not a must need) and will be new although probly junk at that price.
I don't cut enough wood to justify it and my mill may be to rickity for this motor to be a good fit. It was too warm out today and yesterday and I guess it gave me spring fever and made me want to cut up a log. Now I have a new motor. When it arrives it will probly be freezing again.
If nothing else happens, I will get to see what a differrance in horse power means. It won't fix my belt slipping and over all flexing of the mill and may even make these seem worse but the thinking is over and I am now just waiting to see.
I just turned a $500 mill to an $800 mill. Not my original goal but oh well.
Wish me luck.
gww
I'm sure you'll enjoy it and after all you would have spent that on oil. GOOD LUCK :)
tmarch
QuoteI'm sure you'll enjoy it and after all you would have spent that on oil. GOOD LUCK
This is true though now I will spend my money on more gas.
Thank you for the well wishes.
gww
Hey gww - maybe with that bigger engine you can change some pulleys around and run her at half speed, saving you gas and wear and tear. However, I've also heard that these new engines don't like to be babied and need to be run at full throttle to stay cool with their cooling fan fin designs. Beats me. The newest engine I have that I run at slower speeds is around 50 years old and it's an old Petter air cooled diesel rated at 6.5 hp turning a 4 pole generator head at 1800 rpm. That engine is rated to go up to 2600 rpm if I remember right. At 1800 rpm it's putting out 5.5 hp and I can run my house with it during a power outage. I need to be selective with the loads at the breaker box, though. I'll watch the well pump like a hawk and shut most everything else off to run it. If I still had an electric water heater we'd be in trouble! Thanks for keeping this thread updated. I'm sure it has helped many newbies, probably more than you will ever know.
Hey ox
Hope things are going well for you. I don't know how I will configure it. I thought about a bigger pully on the motor and putting the belt on the tire. If it made my cutting zone smaller I would probly not do that. I will look at it and do what is easiest and then work through it till it works. Pretty much how I do everything.
I hooked up an old 5000 watt generator to my house last year but truthfully our electric never goes out and even if it did go out for a few hours or less, I wouldn't know it due to the solar system I have. If I ever have to use the generator and if it starts after sitting and me not starting it every so often. I too would have to watch my well pump like a hawk.
If I could make the mill strong enough and the belts tight enough, maby I could slam through my logs like I see them with the production mill I see on you tube :)
Really, I am curious if the horse power will make it where I can milk the cuts a bit longer with a bit duller blade and sitll get a good board. I dream of the day that I could get 500 bf out of a blade with out sharpining like magic gets 1000 bf with a de-barker.
Either way, at some point I will be able to tell for myself what a differrance in horse power really adds up to (if any) and so will be a little smarter then I am now. Being a little smarter about things is a bit of its own reward.
Cheers
gww
Ok, First I hate my camera and I hate it even worse when it is really cold out side. After two tries I can show you just how lazy and low tech I am. I had other ideals but this is what I had on hand to work quickly with.
I made the motor tilting with a real rickity set up but believe it or not, it works. Two door hinges just welded to the mounting plate on the mill and bolted to the motor.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000472.JPG)
I put a welders clamp on the motor. It ran fine with out it just from the weight of the motor but the hinges are so light duty and I am so used to just starting the motor before the cut and killing it after the cut that I figured it would be less stress on the door hinges and I would only tilt the motor if I needed a belt change. If I put a bracket there to actually tilt the motor to stop the blade, I might have to go beefier with the hinges and would have to come up with belt guides to keep the belt on the pully when lose. It did ok when I tried it without a belt guide but I would hate to lose a belt to the blade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000474.JPG)
I slowed down some of the flex in my mill under tension buy adding some small supports. I wanted to put a bar in front of the tires but was too lazy to find everthing I needed to get that done so this is what I did do on both sides of the mill. It does make it slower to change blades compared to how easy it was before. Probly not the strongest but seems to be some better if the welds hold.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000473.JPG)
I have made 5 cuts in a dirty log with a "not" new blade and it seems to be cutting very strait. Not as fast as it has potential for due to possible belt slipping on my homemade wheel pully but with a dull blade still an improvement. I can't believe how fast the logs I cut last summer seem to be degrading.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000475.JPG)
Over all I am happy if not confident that the new stuff will hold up.
I may never get the electric start hooked up as even turning the tires and blade while starting, the rope pulls really easy and it starts with very little effort.
I hope this post has a bit of intertainment value and welcome any comments including ones that point out how sloppy I am and such and such. I may learn something from them.
Cheers
gww
Hey.... what ever works... I'm sure it put a smile on your face...
K
That it worked the little bit better then it did, did make me smile.
Thanks
gww
Yessir - it doesn't matter what it looks like because it seems to be milling nicely. And if it improved on what it used to be and made you smile....well, that's enough said right there.
Keep reminding yourself how much cash you have invested and you're able to mill lumber. Not many people in this world can say they've built their own sawmill. :laugh:
Ox
It was so cold today or I would have at least finnished the log on the mill. Time will tell how long I keep the smile but so far so good.
Thanks
gww
Were you able to tighten the blade up more because you added the supports and kept the mill from flexing? I think I remember you saying your blade would run off the front if you tightened too much before you added the supports because of the flexing.
I still haven't gotten a chance to cut with mine since the weekend and probably won't for a little while, but I will let you know what happens when I do. Hopefully we will both be happier than we were.
Thanks for all your help and answering my questions!
G
I still can tighten my tension enough to run it off the front of the tire. Even the tube I added is flexed a bit. I added to 45 lbs pressure in the tire and then tightend to where it started to creep forward. Then I losened to where I liked it. I can now scrunch the rubber on the tire a bit now and have it losened where that is not happining. I am about the max I can do and it is tighter as long as the welds don't break. I wanted what you did because I believe it is better but also believe I am getting plenty of tension on mine now if it holds up.
I still want to hear about yours when you get to it. If any ideal I had helped, I am thankful but you did the work. I believe it will pay for you.
Thanks
gww
Gww.
I increased my psi from about 45 psi to 60 psi. When I ran my mill this past weekend I tightened the blade until you could start seeing the rubber of the tires "give" in at 60 psi. Obviously I don't know if this is correct or if it will continue to work, but just thought I would mention that to you.
I actually decided this time to let the air out if the tire to release the tension while I'm not using. I hope this enables me to put the same 60psi in the tire and continue sawing like I was before (I didn't change any other adjustments).
Good luck
G
I wanted my tension just above scrunching the tires due to fear of it taking the set out of the blade. I am no expert and so I just try things untill I like them. I think it should be pretty easy to get your same settings back using a tire guage. Can you change a blade by letting air out or do you have to move your tensioner?
Mine was easy before, I always untensioned with 17 turns and put tension on with 17 turns. It will be a little harder now but not bad.
If I don't freeze to death, I may finish the cant that is sitting on the mill. I doubt I load another log but who knows. I try to do a tiny bit of something every day but lots of days a tiny bit is just that.
I noticed your other thread and if it is any consulation, log handling does get a little easyer the more you do it. I have found one of the handiest items is just a pretty strong stake for putting leverage to slide the log around and some wood wedges to keep it from rolling while sliding it around.
Good luck
gww
I'm not sure if I can change blades by letting out the air. I think I can especially if I let it out of both tires.
I have always done as you say and counted the number of turns to get where I wanted. But, since I added the front bar I would have to get both adjustments the same each time I loosened and tightened.
This is doable, but I figured I would try air. (Not as much work and I'm lazy).
G
Quote(Not as much work and I'm lazy).
Me too.
gww
You guys can make a tension gauge fairly easily. Clamp a digital or dial caliper on the blade and measure the stretch.. IIRC
beenthere
Yes, I was actually going to buy a caliper to check set with also. It was $10 something on amozon and when I got to the local store it was $25 or so for the cheepest one and I couldn't make myself do it.
I only remember I am missing one when I go to use it or some one reminds me I don't have one. I usually end up with what I need about two years after I find I need it. ;D
gww
Best home-made tensioner I have seen is by arnold113. Ram and pump off a cheap floor jack, drill and tap a hole on output side of pump, screw a cheap pressure gauge in it. I think he has some pics in his gallery...
Piney.....
I will check it out. Thanks
Well, some good news bad news.
I cut the cant that was still on the mill and everything went well and the boards were strait and no wave.
I then hooked up the starter and it didn't work. I called the company and he said he would send me a starter but that it was a buger to change cause the bolts were behind the flywheel. I ask him if he was interested in just reducing the price to the motor that didn't have a starter and he was fine with that .
I am now $25 richer. The only thing he could come up with is that me using a car battery insted of a mower battery may have fused the starter due to too many amps. I said that would be hard to believe and he said that this isn't the 1950s and that things were made really cheep today.
I am not that upset that I didn't end up with electric start even though I did order it. I guess I am used to what I am doing already. He didn't act like I was doing anything bad to him and I guess I don't mind pull start cause it pulls pretty easy and for now starts really well.
I really didn't feel ike messing with it and can get done what I want with it the way it is.
My one week spot is still some slipping on my home made pully but the blade was dull and I saw it slow once or twice but it cut good boards and is a bit quicker then it was before. I believe the tension increase was a step in the right direction along with more horse power. I could use a caliper and redo the tension side of the mill but it is doing pretty good and I probly will live with it till something breaks. It is really hard to work on things that are giving you what you want.
I still to this day have never seen a manufatured mill run in person unless you count you tube. I did look at a timberking b16 in person but didn't get to see it run. I believe my mill is doing very well now but don't have a large referance base to know for sure.
Cheers
gww
Hey gww...Sometimes your best reference base is the one you already described... You mill runs, works, cuts good lumber most of the time, acceptable lumber the rest, and some firewood... It's much like the rest of the mills. It does what you want it to, makes you happy, is clearly constructive, and even better yet, no payments!!!! Life is good...never perfect... It's what keeps us on our toes. You've learned and done so much since your start, there's no doubt you can handle and sort out these little issues. Thanks for continuing to check in, I like to see what you are up to, and what you are doing...
Bk
Thanks and I hope you are now making more of a killing on lumber then you are on general maintanance. I agree, Its all good.
Cheers
gww
My saw is lots of maintenance, but few breakdowns... A few killings here and there, but not much...still making payments and putting food on the table...IT IS ALL GOOD!!! I love to saw...
I like sawing ok but hate stickering and also having to resticker everytime I dig for a board. I almost feel like building stuff I don't need just to use the stuff before I have to sticker it. I am hooked. I have a whole bunch of non standard logs, lots of junk. I just keep cutting till I run out of places to put it and then try and find something to do with it. I haven't found a way to even get my little investment back but it keeps me doing something I am still enjoying and keeps me from being a total couch potato.
You had a home built right? What ever did you end up doing with it?
Cheers
gww
Gww..yeah, I started with a home made mill that got me started, and served me well. Between me and the machine, it couldn't do the production I needed only being able to saw part time, do what I love, and still make money, so now I run an LT40. I'm kinda stuck in between now having what I needed, but having payments too, but that's OK. I took apart half of my mill with intentions of "retooling" it into a wide slabber...right now the head sits on a pallet in the mud. I haven't been able to get back to it yet...but I will...
gww - I think I remember you had some problems with that homemade pulley of yours. Have you ever priced a store bought pulley? Do you think it might be worth the cash layout just to get rid of that little headache? Something like that might just possibly put me over the edge and I'd buy one even if it was $100! After all, band blades changing speed in the cut is one of the biggest reasons for weird cutting problems... It seems like someplace like Surplus Center might have very good prices on some of that stuff. I'm glad your new engine is working out for you. I also have an electric starter on my Chinese engine but use the pull starter. It looks just like a Honda 13hp but is painted black with different words. Runs 99% perfect. A little lean just off from idle, so sometimes when you try to throttle up either slow or fast it just dies. Do you have this problem with your engine?
Ox
No bought pully unless I rebuild that side of the mill. The pully is part of the wheel bearing. The only thing I could do is buy a wheel bearing that accepts a shaft and put a pully on the shaft. The funny thing is that every once in a while I will basicaly stop the blade and have to stop for a bit and let it take off. Only happens when I am not paying attention and pushing a little fast.
The amazing thing is it is not causing problims in the board, just the speed I can cut the board. The board doesn't even show that it has happenned.
I have ideals that could make even the home made pully work a little better but can't make myself tackle them plus the fear is there that I could make it worse. I could weld a piece of metal around to build the ridge up and give the belt more surface area but I have not figured out how to make the ends of the peice of metal smooth enough that it doesn't tear up the belt with out better tools and more skill then I have. The other ideal would be to use a longer belt and put a tension pully to rap the belt further around the pully. Not alot of room though.
The problim is the mill is working very well as it is. The pully is my weakest point right now, but not weak enough for the effort to change it till something breaks.
I have had the motor die when I idle it down and once or twice during the cut. I have since unhooked the oil senser and believe this is what has caused the dying during the cut. I read the reviews before buying and oil senser sensitivity was mentioned. I have had it take three or four pulls to start but most times it starts half way through the first pull. It calls for gas of an octain rating of 89 or higher but I am using and will keep using the 87 octain gas.
I may change the drive side some day and know that a toyota front wheel drive wheel bearing will fit my bolt patern for the trailer tires I am using. It would be very tight fit though and may not even be posible. If I could keep the belt from flipping it would not slip, I believe. The ridge on one side with a strip of metal would probly fix it but I cleaned up so much welt slag to get it smooth from the first time when I made it that I just am scared to tackle it and I do also burn lot of holes at my skill level. All little things to think about when deciding what a guy can live with.
Thanks for asking'
gww
I completely understand your mind set after you took the time to explain it - thanks for that. I also understand the hesitation of "fixing" something if it isn't really broken. Trying to improve something sometimes takes you down a long, twisty and expensive road. Hopefully things will stay working to your liking and you never have to touch anything again for as long as you care about it! But.....it's a sawmill. It's definitely hands on. :)
Bk
I read your post but forgot to acknowlage it. I think a wide slabber is a neat ideal although handling giant logs on a manual does't sound that fun.
Ox
Yep that is about it. I did notice on the motor today that even with the oil sencer unhooked, the motor went through a small spell of trying to die while cutting where I had to stop forward movement and wait a bit for it to catch and take off. Must be some type of gas feed issue. It runs good mostly but this is a little surprizing and worrysome. Oh well, just keep cutting till failure is my moto.
I hate stickering boards.
gww
I hate stickering and stacking, too. Worst part but most important part of milling. I realize you probably don't want to hear it, but running high test gas, non ethanol gas (if you can find it locally), will make a difference in how your engine runs. I've switched over to high test, non ethanol gas in everything and I no longer have any carburetor issues. Also, if it has a fuel shutoff valve, turn it from off to on a few times. Why? I don't know, but this made a sputtering engine come back to life for me once. Must have had something floating around in that little valve. It shouldn't be with a new engine, but ya never know.
Ox
Thanks for the advice.
gww
Because everyone likes pictures, I will post a few more of things I have done with my saw mill boards. I hate my camera and couldn't even take enough pictures in row to get everthing I wanted. This is sorta my record for what I do with the mill cause I got a virus and had to start over by reloading my computer with its factory software. I lost my pictures on my computer. Its fine and I don't care that much but it is nice to have some on this site saved.
First is a cedar chest I made though it is a terible picture of it and it is actually shiny, pretty bright and looks good for me being the one that built it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000477.JPG)
Built a couple more raised bed gardens with more to come and skinned the outside of an old one that was rotting.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000479.JPG)
I am currently working on a swing set to intice my grand children to put pressure on their parents to visit more or at least to give them something to do when they get here. I got to keep removing boards in the little lean too in the lower right hand corner of the picture if I want to cut more logs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000478.JPG)
The above picture is where my camera quit. I wanted a couple more pictures to show all the swarm traps and hive bodies and frames for inside the hive bodies for honey bees that I have built this winter. I don't know if I will try to put them on here later or not. The camera is hardly worth using. I wish I knew how to use my phone and transfer the pictures to my computer. I don't have a data plan but it does take pictures but I can't do anything with them.
As always. I am always surprized at everything that I build, that it adds up to using lots more boards than I thought which means cutting lots more logs then I thought it would take.
Cheers
gww
Pictures look good.
It's amazing how much lumber it takes to build stuff, isn't it? Nice pics. Your raised bed garden boxes look IDENTICAL to mine! Too bad about your 'puter. I switched to using Linux because I hated paying Microsoft. Linux is awesome, runs fast, no bugs or viruses because not many people in the world use it (couple million compared to couple billion?) and I just upgraded to the latest long term support version (supported until at least 2019), Linux Mint 17.3 and we love it. It cost me $8.65 to get a disc here and I can use it on as many computers as I want. It basically updates itself, as well. Maybe this is something that may benefit you. Any questions, just ask.
I am amazed at the amount of wood it takes. I get alot more waste due to sawing lots of low standard logs. Not much clear lumber and so lots of waste when working around the bad.
I have a differrent view on the computer thing. I just don't use it for anything important or put stuff on it that I can't afford to lose. I turn off the update and anti virus and when things get slow on it, I just format the hard drive and reload it back to factory.
I mostly use it because it can make a dumb guy like me just a bit smarter if I know who to listen to on it. Every time I decide I want to do something, I get on the computer and try to learn how to do it.
When I first retired I went without the internet for about a year cause I thought I could live without it and save the money. When I got the internet back I was like a drug addict.
I figure it is a double edge sword cause I do things I wouldn't be skilled enough to try without the computers help and there fore I buy things that I had never needed before so I can do the stuff I am interested in. It saves by allowing me to be smarter then I really am.
If I was doing all the work in the garden, I would do rows big enough to get a tiller down the middle but my wife is a better gardener and she just loves the raised bed gardens. She does have to water almost every day due to using them though.
Cheers
gww
Quote from: gww on June 14, 2015, 08:22:43 PM
Ok
The shed is as done as I intend to make it.
Inside
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000456.JPG)
outside
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000457.JPG)
Lastly, a really unrelated bad chicken picture that you can't even see the baby that is sticking its head out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000458.JPG)
I just put here cause I sorta get excited when a chicken starves herself and acts like a zombee and then is succesful. I had miss counted and thought the eggs where going to hatch two days from now on my wifes birthday. I guess I count like I use a mesuring tape, not that good. Threw you with the chicken picture though, didn't I.
Cheers
gww
Nice "shed" looks like a two seater at least to me :laugh:
Leggman
Long time no hear. I actually called your number to see if everything was going well but only tried it once cause I wasn't sure of your work schedule.
Not even the out house is a two seater but I still think it is one of the neatest things and handiest things I have made yet.
Your guides that you made for me and gave to me are still keeping me cutting fair boards.
Have you cut a log yet?
Really good to see you are still kicking.
I hope all is well for you.
gww
Quote from: gww on July 17, 2015, 01:52:10 PM
Two updates.
My tension bolt set up went south on me. I just could not get a nut to stay welded to a metal plate. Today I just ground off most of the weld crud and cut up a sissor jack and welded the metal I left attached to the sissor jack to the plate I was trying to weld the nuts to. I used the stick welder and a 6011 rod and it seems to have welded easy. My cheapness may still come back to get me. I had two sissor jacks, One heavy and one light. I just couldn't make myself cut up the heavy one so used the light one. The one bennifit of the light one is it has a swivil handle attached to it. That is handy and since I am losing my stearing wheel I was using to tighten my tension, it is noce to have something that is attached and can't be lost (if it holds up).
Either way I am thankfull for little johns build thread (I think I got that right). I would have never thought of the jack otherwise. Time will tell if it is an improvement and if it holds up.
I also did buy the $35 tooth setter off ebay. It was supposed to come with a instruction vidio but didn't. It does however seem to be made well enough and was not something I wanted to tackle cause it has 4 nuts welded on it and I am having no luck welding nuts. I have ran one of my bad blade through it twice now and then put it on the mill. I am basicaly doing it by trial and error as I still have not bought a caliper. I was haveing no luck getting it set enough to get the blade to stop diving and come in the house and look on the internet on where I should be trying to get the bend. I believe I have my answer from looking at a cooks vidio on their single setter. He said it should bend close to the gullet cause it is heat treated above that and that you have to over bend due to it springing back some. I am only trying to do one side of the blade at this time. The blade is really sharp but has no set on the wheel side. I have four blades that I may get some use out of if I can get them cutting strait. Another interresting thing that the vidio said was the set being perfect is not really that important as long as it makes it cut wide enough to clear the blade body.
Well I am about done sweating and ready to hit it again.
gww
Go back to Ebay and get the one I sell on there. It has a dial indicator built in, and does a great job setting the teeth - or unsetting them. It costs a hundred, plus shipping, but I make them myself for a little extra cha-ching and aI've used my old welded up messed up one for a while now and it works great - and I've had great feedback from the folks that use them.
Gideon
I will probly go to ebay and check yours out. I will probly not buy as I am getting by using the one I have and am a cheepskate.
I am over setting a bit and it is cutting well but leaving quite a lot of teeth marks and needs played with a bit more but I cut such a low volume that I can't justify spending much on it if I can get what I need. But who knows, I may fall in love with yours and buy anyway.
I am glad that somebody makes stuff that a small time user can justify buying if he doesn't have the skill to do it hisself.
Thanks
gww
Just an update with no good pictures yet (I hate my camera).
I stopped my belt slipping by wrapping a small electric fence post around the home made wheel pully on the side that wasn't steep enough and was flipping my belt. I tach welded it and then built it up with $20 worth of liquid weld and it has made my mill work better then it ever has. New more powerful motor and no belt slipping is working great.
As a side note, the shed I built in this thread was moved to my moms on the trailer that I have been hauling my logs with. Talk about a job. I put it on the trailer one inch at a time with a kobota on the back rotating the bucket for max push power and a 2000 pound winch pulling on front. It was much easier to unload with the backhoe at the clubhouse we built but hard to get placed in its final resting spot there. The window didn't get broke and it will need a couple of nails put back in some of the batton siding that drug the ground here and there but over all ended up in pretty good shape. It got the tin on the roof kinked in two places from rubbing against trees getting it there also. If you build with all oak stuff is just unbelievably heavy. It was just a little wet and the backhoe is only two wheel drive. Mom bought it from me for $400. I had made my mind up not to sell it because I liked it by the road and wanted to maby make an honor stand to sell stuff out of it but had offerred it to her for that when I built it cause she liked it. I don't think the clubhouse will ever be done. Put electric to it yesterday and know the heat works and got our fingers crossed on the air conditioner but it was to cold to try it. Still have a boat dock and swim platform to build and a sliding door in the middle of the trailer portion and a porch in front of all the doors, steps to the upper bedroom and concreete in the pavillion and mom wants to stain everything wood.
Cheers
gww
Good job, gww. Don'cha love when a plan comes together? More power + less belt slip = happiness. Glad you made your ma happy, too.
Ox
I was scared to death to touch the mill cause I was afraid to make it worse and couldn't reverse it but got lucky and it is better then it has ever been. Hope it last and I have not quit cutting yet. Brought three more logs home day before yesterday.
I did make mom happy. She tried to give me $550 and didn't think I should come down much from $1200 if I sold to anyone else. I had quit trying to sell it to anyone else after the first month cause I had gotten used to it and am not good at trying to sell things anyway. It matches the club house and out house sitting by the lake.
I always feel guilty taking any money from mom and dad but feel they didn't do bad and it will be my brothers in the end anyway. I would have made them feel bad if I don't let them give me a little. They just bought several thousand fish for the lake and several loads of gravel and paid the power company to get electric close. My brother is coming out like a fat cat but I aint mad. He is not a selfish person and will share and doesn't make good money due to the factory we both worked in closing down and this was a dream he saved for well before the factory closed down. He is a lot younger then me and I moved for 4 years to get retirement but he had a small child and would have to had left him for 15 years to get a retirement. Different cards delt to differrent poeple.
I don't want to do it all and I don't want mom and dad to have to do it all and the rest of the relitives have helped well with the building and labor. It is a family affair. I took the money from mom but it was hard but hopefully fair.
Like you wanted to know all that.
Cheers
gww
When welding nuts try useing these... Gives more room for your weld.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Image3q.jpg)
K
The way I weld, even those might not be long enough to stop me from ruining the threads. I tried several differrent looking nuts and sometimes it looked like it was doing ok but none of them held. Leggman told me to grind off the finish a bit but I still had no luck. I am good with out it now and found ways around needing it but I sure was getting flustered.
Cheers
gww
Don't worry about ruining the threads. Just run a tap through it. That's what I do.
John
I actually did that also but my nuts either melted half away or just had slag build up around them (and actually hold for awhile). They all eventually stripped or come lose. I had a couple of places I tried it. One was on the guides and the other was on the tensioner. The guide is holding now but may not get the bolt out for adjustment but it is on the stationary side. On the tension, I just got rid of the bolt and used a cut up sissor jack (stolen from your build thread).
Its all good.
gww
Ps I cut with the bad welded bolts on the tensioner for several months before they came lose enough to not work anymore.
How do you hold them in place when welding? I use a bolt through the nut and then another nut on the other side of what I'm welding to. Then it won't shift around, no matter what you do (like the rod sticking). Then I run a bead nearly all the way around from my one position. When you back out the bolt, all is good (usually).
Start your arc on the chunk of metal that your welding the nut to.
After you got a good bead jump over to the nut just long enough to get a good penetration.
Then jump right back to the metal. Do this 3 time around the nut. You should be good to go.
John and K
Don't take what I am about to say wrong. I am very glad you guys have given me good advice. I am not going to practice or try to weld a nut untill the next time that I have no choice but to try cause I need it. Again, I am very thankfull that you guys, that I know can do it well, are advising me. I am sure I will do something someday that this advice will help me. I hope that day is in the future though :).
Thanks
gww
Ps Gideon, I did look up your setter. It looks like it would not hurt your hand like turning the handle on the vice does when using the one I have. Is there a vidio on you tube? I don't understand how to use the guage and how the guage helps you. I still am not going to buy one at this time but would like to know more and am still glad it is there incase I change my mind.
Well I am on a roll. I went to get more logs and a hydrolic cable busted on the backhoe and I only got to bring home three logs and now have to make time to fix the backhoe.
Got home and the next day while sawing a log, a wheel bearing went out on the mill. Ran all over town and finaly got some bearings that would work. I first put them on but left a race coupling on the shaft. Didn't even see it. I took it apart and took the race off the shaft a put it back together and ran the mill and the bearing was still getting hot. I took it back apart and I had put the bearings on backwards :-[. I fixed it and then noticed that my guides had cracked the weld and were a tiny bit lose.
Since I was already in a fixing mood, I pulled out the welder. I then did the one thing I have been extremely scared I would do since starting the build. (Can't believe it hasn't happened till now) My mill is tube inside of tube for the head up and down. I bet you know where this is going. I welded the outside tube to the inside tube. :'(. I have welds everywhere on the mill and always knew that the outside tube was very thin. I have burnt holes and built slag to keep things tight (which is why the guides come lose every so often) I filled a couple of those holes and thought I was using a light touch, ha ha.
Angle grinder and chisel and all I have to show so far is a blood blister and a couple of bruses where I missed the chisel and hit my hand.
I didn't even know I had did it till I loaded another log on and tried to make a cut. I had checked the wheel bearing earlier but apparently hadn't tried to raise or lower the mill. Surprize surprize. Dang shame too cause the mill was cutting great.
Oh well, tommorrow is another day.
Cheers.
gww
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one that has those kind of days! :D
That does suck. I feel your frustration. Try to look at it this way: If you're not making mistakes, you're either not doing anything or you're dead. ;)
Is this fixable all the way or do you have to start over with fresh material and build the uprights over again? I think I got that you were able to fix the mistake.
I've spot welded slip tubing together by putting the clamp on the wrong piece to be welded and the ground jumped across inside where it slips and no more slippy. Luckily a BFH (big "flying" hammer) fixed it. Sometimes a huge maul is just the tool for certain things. ;D
plow
To add insult to injury, I shoveled out all the saw dust from inside the tracks before adding the next log. A two hour hard job. Yea, everybody has days like this though I do try to make enough mistakes to stand out from the crowd.
Ox
QuoteI think I got that you were able to fix the mistake.
Not yet. I am hoping to get something to work with what I have but am not sure yet. Every thing is fixable but can I do it with out building a new head? Time will tell. The hammer? I am using it quite hard but no luck yet.
I thought about cutting a chunk out of the uprights and seeing what I end up with but can't get to it well. Something will come to me even if that something is building a new head. It is a shame cause man it was cutting so good.
Good to hear from you.
Thanks
gww
Ok, after another 3 hours with a hammer chisel and splitting maul, I am back in buisness. I pluged in the battery charger for the batteries in the camera but no garentee that it will work. If it does I will show you my operation techniques incase someone needs cheered up with some shoddy work.
Good news for now. Now the backhoe hydrolic line is next if I don't decide to finish the log on the mill first.
Total desaster adverted and all systems go.
Cheers
gww
Ok, the first picture is where I took an angle grinder, made a whole that I could stick a chisel in and hammer at.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/054.JPG)
The second picture is the other side and the same thing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/055.JPG)
The last picture is where I added a fence post on the left of my home made pully and then filled it with $20 worth of liquid weld. It stoped my belt from slipping and made a world of differrance in the cut and possible cut speed I could obtain.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/056.JPG)
I wanted to take more pictures but had to delete 3 pictures to get these. aparently the camera will hold 58 pictures. I came in and deleted a bunch more for next time I try to take pictures. The battery will only last for 5 or 6 pics but I am ready for next time.
I made one cut with the mill and everything is back to working perfectly. The wheel bearing is staying cool, the tension is great and the guide that is only held on by a thread is hold well now but will probly have to be reinforced sooner or later. No belt slipping with a dull blade but a strait non wavy cut.
Now to the backhoe.
Cheers
gww
Fantastic news! I'm glad you were able to fix it without a rebuild and that your mill is back to sawing nicely. Hopefully the 'hoe hose isn't one that runs down inside the boom. If not, should be easy enough, just a little time consuming perhaps. Thanks for the update and pics.
ox
QuoteFantastic news! I'm glad you were able to fix it without a rebuild and that your mill is back to sawing nicely.
You aint just whistling dixy. I was very glad it is going without having to build a new head. And I made one more cut and it seemed to be doing great.
I replace two hoses on the back hoe. The hardest part was laying on my back and working (always hard) and the junk that kept falling in my eyes. I can't believe how lucky I seem to have gotten on that also. I just picked the two worse looking hoses without starting it (when cold it needs to be plugged in for a bit). When I did start it, It seems to be not leaking any more. Yea ha.
I picked up a guy walking on my way back home. He said he was coming from a second opinion from a doctor who was telling him he only had 4 months to live from lukemia. He had a bottle of wiskey and I had a cold and so I took a half a cup and I must be out of practice cause I had to take a nap which is why it is 9:30 before answering this post. Needless to say, I hope if the guy is telling the truth that things go as well as they can for him and maby he can beat the odds for a while and as for me, tommorrow is another day to either get a few more logs or finnish cutting what I have. It is supposed to be nicer then it was today.
Thanks for listening.
gww
See, this is why you're getting the good luck with repairs. Karma! You picked up and gave a ride to a stranger. And this is always why I enjoy your posts - you talk about real life and it gives me a chance to see how others are walking this life. Glad the 'hoe repairs went well, too.
ox
QuoteGlad the 'hoe repairs went well, too.
Me too, I figure I got lucky and I have always said it is better to be lucky then good. Of course I will put it to a real test today or tommorrow when I get more logs. As always, fingers crossed.
Cheers
gww
Well I decided to charge the batteries for my peice of crap camera and give a update of my progress using the mill. The first is what I call my "hickory, sickomore, maple and beech junk wood shed. Built with no standards but I believe it will be fine under roof. Started around the 25th of april. Man I am slow and lazy. One hour on and 3 hours off and the weather is good now. I get worse as it gets hotter.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000486.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1463316324)
and a differrent view.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000487.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1463316447)
I thought I would also show my loss of stickers used in my wifes fight to keep chickens away from her prized stuff.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000488~1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1463316770)
Lastly, the thing that has side tracked me a couple of days.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/P1000489.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1463316919)
After two years of trying I have finally caught two little swarms of bees in my swarm traps. It is only fair as "free wood" for bee hives is the reason I first got interested in building a mill.
Cheers
gww
Ps The type of constrution I am using for this shed is my answer to not adding an extention to my mill. Building this way allows me to use short boards, 13 foot or less.
Looks good, bud. It always amazes me how long those projects take, especially when you're a one man show. It looks like very worthy project ideas. Glad to hear your perseverance paid off with your new bees.
Ox
It only takes so long cause I dig out three boards (digging out is hard) put them up and then use running out of boards as another excuse to take a break. In the beginning when I was gung ho a bearing went out on my blade guide and I had to wait a week to get it cause none of the auto or tractor places had one. I orderred 5. I have lost my excitement except for a little bit each day. I am excited every time I see it cause I want it but have no get up and go. I am spending just as much time sitting on a bucket watching my bees come and go as I am building. I did want them too. In the begining I couldn't keep a charge in my battery drill. Now I can't run one down :D.
I am a one man show but like it that I still got to interact with you even though I have a anti social hermit type personality.
Thanks for the responce.
Cheers
gww
"Anti social hermit type personality".
You just described me to a T. I'm OK on here talking but in real life I stay on my mountain as much as possible. I don't like society in general. The people on here are a different breed, though. I hope you know what I mean. This is a good place.
Ox
Sociaty is a bit differrent then before the 80's. I am a bit differrent then I was then also.
I come here when I start getting lax to get pumped up for more. After your responce, I actually did a bit more then I have been doing.
Thanks
gww
Ps I guess I am like everyone else. I need fed by others once in a while.
I'm glad to hear that, bud. I think we all need some positive reinforcement from time to time. Even us hermits! I know sometimes it seems like I go a long ways between positive stuff being said. Sometimes I just don't know what to think anymore. I just try to keep reminding myself that if my ancestors are watching they'd be proud, even if nobody else knows what I'm doing or thinking. Maybe that sounds crazy, but it works for me! Keep on keeping on, gww.
Ox
QuoteSometimes I just don't know what to think anymore.
Even when I thought I knew what to think, I am pretty sure I didn't. One thing I am sure of, life is a trial for everyone cause you don't get all the answers to the test before being tested. I don't need the ansestors cause I got you, na just joking, ansestors are good too. I don't know if I atribute it to ansestors or god or karma but a guy has to do something and I would rather do good but lots of time I am mostly working to at least do no extra harm. Positive reinforcement is nice also. As far as building things go, I am always amazed that the framing goes up fairly fast but the small stuff that needs to be done to the framing to bring it all together takes quite a bit of time.
I hope things are going well for you and yours.
gww
Ps I am also a chainsaw user, I very seldom use any other saw when building things so it is no surprize when I end up 3 inches out of square corner to corner.
Ox
Sometimes I think of these projects as mine and your projects cause you were there from the beginning. I am willing to take responsibility for the ugly parts but am pretty sure the projects would have been uglier had you not answered so many questions for me through it all.
Cheers
gww
It does me good hearing that I was able to make someone's life just a little "better" in whatever way! As far as building something with a chainsaw - don't feel like the lone ranger! I've done it too! And 3 inches off on a roughed in building like that is quite acceptable in my opinion. You should see the "shed" I made from the remains of a small barn I tore down years ago. It's out of plumb by close to a foot! For the roofing I used an old above ground pool (the vinyl outside part) and cut it to sized panels. But it still stands over 10 years later. I don't consider myself a carpenter in any stretch of the imagination. I'm more of a mechanic and machinery operator than anything. Behind those I guess I'd be a fabricator/cob jobber from a land where men are men, the women are too and the sheep run scared. :D
I'm curious about your bee swarm trap. What does it look like? What's it built out of? Where do you put them? Is it just pure luck to get a swarm or can you do something to increase your chances? I love honey (the real stuff, not store bought) and I've been buying it from our local honey farm. I'm wondering if it's worth it to have my own bees. What do you think? How did you get into bees? How did you learn about them? Sorry for all the questions, but I know very little about bees.
Ox
Bees? My son-in-law ask if he could keep bees at my place. He didn't think there was much to it. I knew he didn't have the time as he lives 3 hours away from me. I was newly retired and not above coming up with little tricks to keep my kids visiting me and thought if he was interested it might be a way to keep them coming and keep me interesting. I also decide that living on 20 acrers that it really would cost nothing to do as I like it at home anyway.
I got on a forum to learn about bees just like learning about sawing here. I just read the dayly post and as questions pop into my head I ask them.
I am a year behind due to over confidence that I would be more successful in my trapping and not have to spend real money on bees. Had I bought and not killed them I would be closer to getting something from it, Maby.
Trapping is just setting out a box and putting lemon grass oil in it. I just take a qtip and soak one end and put it in a sandwich bag and put it in the box/trap. If you can get old comb it is supposed to work better. I had two old combs given to me and I cut them into 2 inch squares and just threw it in the bottom of the box. I believe you could spend a lot of money on bees but I made everything including a veil made with a shirt sewn on some window screen. I have lots of time in the project but almost zero money.
I use what is called a medium box for my hives. A medium is 6 and 5/8th inch deep. For trapping you need a box that is 9 and 5/8th inch deep. They are about 20 inches long and 15/16 inches wide. I just make the traps and then will cut them down when I make hives out of them.
I went here for free plans of the things I built.
http://beesource.com/build-it-yourself/
I have been reading for about two years and will now get a bit of experiance. I don't think it has to be very hard to raise bees unless you are profit motivated. Reading makes it seem hard but like everything, I believe once you find the bare minimum to keep them going it won't be too hard.
I have lots of little sites I could post links to that might help if you want to pursue it.
I figure living here and having a place to keep them and it not really taking anything away from that place, why not use it.
I did do the same with bees as I did with sawmills. Watched lots of you-tube vids. You can do anything with an internet connection.
I hope this helps some.
Cheers
gww
Ps trapping is like fishing, lots of hooks and they don't all get full. I had 12 last year and nothing and 16 out this year and caught 2.
Ps ps As you can see about me and money versus time. Just like bees, I figure the shed not counting my wood is going to cost me time and about $1300 to build for the screws, tin, concreet for post and a bit of gravel. Lots of time but not much money.
Thanks for that link. I'll have to start wandering around the net to see if bees is something I want to get in to. I understand fully the time/money thing. An old timer once said "There's 2 forms of currency in this world: time and money. If you don't have one, you better have the other." A perfect saying for folks like us.
Ox
I went foundationless cause then I can build everything myself with buying nothing (except a little bottle of lemon grass oil). I would think having foundation and you wouldn't have to get in the hive very often. If you want to know anything from me or some links to look at just let me know. Remember though that I have no first hand experiance and am relying on reading more then doing. Anything I tell you will be the best I have to offer and given while trying to help and not hurt. I am not pushing for you to do one thing or the other, just want to help if I can.
I am not expecting a responce to this unless you need something cause I wouldn't want to wear out my welcome by trying to keep the conversations going till it becomes a burden to you. There is always something more to say (I guess you noticed all the times I PS after I sign my name :).
Good luck
gww
You'll never "wear out your welcome" with me, my friend. I appreciate your offer to help me however you can, thanks for that. Right now I'm busier than all get out and sometimes can't sleep, like tonight, but I'd like to at least entertain the idea of beekeeping. It may be too much for me because I always have a lot on my plate, usually more than I can handle at one time. ::) Maybe we ought to be chatting with personal messages instead of taking up the forum's space? This spinoff conversation isn't really part of your sawmill thread. I screwed that up by asking you about bees! I shoulda messaged you. What do you think?
:P :D
plowboy - I know, right? ::) :D ;)
That was a perfect post, plowboy. It made me laugh!
Ox
Trapping.
https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/handle/1813/2653/Bait%20Hives%20for%20Honey%20Bees.pdf;jsessionid=E93AA48694C263CE41D7E085AAC48AE4?sequence=2
One guys writing that I could at least understand what he was saying.
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm
I had wrote a big text that dissapeared while I was looking for the links.
I will answer if you personal message me unless I some how miss the message.
I am not that worried about taking this thread off topic. It is now so long no one will read it anyway.
I have taken it off topic with all my build pictures though they are the only pictures I have left due to computer and camera problims and so I am glad I did.
Bees is why I first got the ideal to build a mill.
I build bee stuff in winter when you can't really do much else. Since you can only get bees in spring it can be a long prossess to actualy move forward with bees (like a three to five year plan). I don't think they actually take a lot of actual time from you except the building in winter and if you mass produce and don't do onesies and twosies even that might be pretty quick. (I do one or two at a time though).
I hate when I can't sleep when it actually messes me up for a while also.
I wish I had not lost my first post to you.
Good luck
gww
Welcome to the Forum. Just another opinoin. Make sure your mill head is EXACTLY perpinduclar to your bed ALL the way to the end and there is no bark or sawdust build up in your tracks.
One of your wheels looks frayed like the teeth are riding a little hard on it. I'm no expert but could it be blade speed consistency problem.
I finaly about a month ago got the tin on and have did nothing since the hot weather started.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/0714161037-00_28640x48029_28300x22529.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1468519526)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/0714161038-00_28640x48029_28300x22529.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1468519587)
Ox Just for you, here is my start to having bees.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/0714161028-00_28640x48029_28300x22529.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1468519863)
But the big news is that I finally can transfer pictures from my cell phone to my computer. My mom gave me a micro chip that fits in the phone and made it work. I thank all that had tried to tutor me on this.
Cheers
gww
....and he's tech savvy to boot! Good looking work, there gww. Did you build or buy your bee houses/hives/supers. I really can't remember much about the terminology when I researched some a while ago. It's not something I've pushed aside, just something I can't get to this year anyways! Keep cool if you can...
Ox
It is pretty easy to keep cool, I haven't moved from the lazyboy for a month. Lazyboy GOOD.
I built the hives out of oak or whatever. No pine around here.
Tech savvy, you are funny.
Cheers
gww
Quote from: gww on July 14, 2016, 02:50:36 PM
Ox
It is pretty easy to keep cool, I haven't moved from the lazyboy for a month. Lazyboy GOOD. :D :D
I built the hives out of oak or whatever. No pine around here.
Tech savvy, you are funny.
Cheers
gww
Shed looks good. 8) smiley_clapping
Plow.....
Not done, but now keeping things dry, so it may never get done.
Thank you
gww
Nice shed, gww... congratulations on the completion, looks good! Looks like you have the same problem I have... everything is full before it's even done...
bk
Full before done? Thats why my wife was afraid of what I built, she thought I would fill it with junk. It was needed pretty bad and I want to board and batton three sides but may never do it either.
Thanks for looking.
gww
tnaz - that made me laugh too! gww - I don't get much done outside these days but I try to get out there at least for an hour or two if I can stand the heat and my stupid back.
Ox
I haven't even been getting an hour a day due to the heat. I have been keeping my reading on bees up pretty good over the last month. The computer is close to the lazyboy.
Cheers
gww
Most poeple like pictures. Due to the heat over the last few months, I have only used the mill for one cut to put a strait edge on a board.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/002.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306079) Beech and fire pit.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306151) Shed moved to club house
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/004.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306245) Shed location to club house.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/005.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306331) Dock with little tourches for light.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306411) Current project, two teer swim deck 16'x20' with diving board and slide. Bought treated wood.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/012.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306532)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/013.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306611)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/007.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306674) Path to out house.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/008.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306766) Concreete pad in use.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/009.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472306855) Bobcat killed a couple of deer seasons ago for looks, Ha ha.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/010.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472307032) Steps and poarches from my wood.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/014.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472307111) Slatted racks for bee hives.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/015.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1472307162) My fourth table saw, burnt the motor out of three of the cheep skill ones.
Cheers
gww
That looks like a fantastic place to set and chat and swim. I'm envious. Nice pics and thanks for sharing.
Thank you Sir for the tour. I love the homey atmosphere. :)
Ox and magic
I turned into a monster now that I have figured out how to transfer pictures from my cell phone :D. Magic, "Homey" is a very diplimatic way to point out rustic, thrown together, piecemeal, etc, etc.....
It is all fun and aparrently will never be done but what the heck. It is being used quite a bit lately and is useable as it is, but it still will probly never be done. I can say that I helped on all most all of it and also that my little rickity home made saw mill provide the wood that was the basis of it all. The swim deck will be bought wood but I don't know if that is because of a fear of rot or cause my family was feeling sorry for me having to cut too much.
I built my little michine shed and then hit a slump due to the heat and only now started to move again. I still have some logs but the thought of restacking my stickered wood that was tore apart during the building is making it hard to get back to it. I either have to restack or built new bases to stack my wood on before I start cutting again. My logs are going on the second year of being on the ground and so I guess I will find out if they are starting to degrade again. I only have about 4 or five band blades left and then I will have to make a decision on wether I feel I have built all the things I wanted and am done or if I get new ideals.
Thanks for looking.
gww
Actually I was being honest. Some places display a sense of being sterile and stuffy, while others have a sense of warmth with a welcome atmosphere. I prefer the latter. :)
Magic
I will say that I am amazed at how good it really did turn out. It is on a north facing hill which puts the sun behind you making it cooler. My uncle used the backhoe and cleared out the woods and mostly by accident it the parts of it came out spaced in really handy spots. I am the least appretiative of out door things out of my family and if it were mine it would be a john boat and that is about it. The rest of the family love sitting out doors and drinking a few beers and swimming and such. I did find that the young kids just love the beech. I wish I would have took a picture of the tree right in front of the concreete pad that got hit by lightning. It would have been bad sitting there when it hit. It tore bark the full lenght of the tree and threw it everywhere including all over the pad where we sit. I figured it would be used a few times and then poeple would be tired of it but so far everyone wants to go there to get together all the time. It does have air conditioning but everyone just stays outside and we use a couple of fans. I agee that it is pretty "homey" but think that luck or intuition made it happen that way more then looking over a whole site and planning it out. I can't believe how nice it really ended up being. It is my brothers dream and my mom spends the money and also has lots of ideals/jobs to be done. I am just a grunt that complains when they want a little extra to see if they really want it. I thought a couple of things were more work then they were worth while doing it but in the end after winning some and losing some the overall site turned out unbelievably well for what we were working with.
Still have some big sliding doors to ad light to the center of the trailer if we ever get them put in.
I actually love/hate the work but am proud of my part.
Thanks magic for your kind words.
gww
I'd like to try out those hanging chairs. Where do you find those at? Then I'd like to sit on that upstairs porch/balcony and see if I can spit on peoples' heads. smiley_devil_trident Kidding of course.
MM said it better than I could have. Some peoples' ideas of a camp is so sterile it makes you uncomfortable to be there. Then the other camps are very welcoming and you feel right at home! Real nice place there, bub. Seriously.
Looks good.
My wife has one of those chairs in her Women Cave. Ocean Job Lot. Just a close out place,never know what they will have for stuff like that. We was just there last Thursday and did not see a chair like that.
ox and thecfarm
I don't know where the hanging chairs come from. My brother likes them and they seem comfy but I must drink too much or something, everytime I lean sideways it feels like I am going to fall out of them.
I have found that the upper deck seems to be used very little. It seems to be more of a place to hang out when there are only one or two of you around. I think a lot of us are older and don't love the steps and the real young ones can't be trusted up there, just in case.
My brother in law has a freind visiting from kokomo IN and so we went out today and drank a few and they played guitars and we tried to sing. Now I am roped into going back tommorrow and starting on laying the decking on the swim dock. My brother is hoping for some usefullness for his kids 16th birthday but he has to work. Us retired guys (Me and my uncle) are going to do a little bit and maby surprize him a bit. We wont finish it or anything but might get some decking on it. My view is my brother needs to do a little of it anyway for the pride factor since it is his but he does have a job and only has weekends.
Another party for my 16 year old nefew saterday. I like staying home and my family is pretty close and so I am getting drawn out pretty often.
I sometimes wonder about my energy level compared to the rest of my family. They seem to keep things going all the time.
It is all good though.
It is all worth it due to moms excitement. She has bought the pontoon before the lake was built, a kyak, paddle boat, rubber raft, fish food and on and on and on.
Its all used stuff but you won't even have any open water left the way she is going.
I was there today and still forgot to take a pic of the lightning struck tree. I might be "off" but found it impressive. Could have been bad had we been there.
The tree just reminds you who is really in control of life and luck.
Anyway, thanks for your attention.
gww
Slice of paradise ;D
Thanks for sharing.
Czech
Thanks for looking.
gww
Last project getting close to being done. I can't lie, I haven't helped since the lower floor but thought you guys might be interested in a close to done picture.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/0917161411-00.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1474243842)
They would like to be able to tie it out where the balloon is in the middle of the lake.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/0917161431-00.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1474244090)
Thanks for looking.
gww
I love seeing pictures of your piece of paradise.
Thank you magic.
gww
Update
Well the recoil start broke on my new motor. I am intending on asking those who sold it to me if they will send me a replacement under warrenty but also ordered on off ebay for $40 cause it happened on sunday and I am cutting siding for my michine shed and didn't want to do with out.
Man it is thin stuff they made the recoil starter out of. Two of them probly won't go to waste as cheeply made as they are.
I did find a way to keep it going though it wont last. I drilled a hole and drove a screw through the case and then made a loop in the spring band that was broken also that would catch the screw. So far so good.
I am having one other problim.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/1025161255-00.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1477426376)
My logs have layed around for awhile and my chickens have figured out that I release bugs while cutting. They are not afraid of the motor sound and I almost cut one of the suckers heads off (didn't touch it but). If the rooster is around he will get a whole bunch of birds around. I run them off and then they will sneek up behind me and be jumping in between the rails. It is really slowing me down and I was already pretty slow. Its a good thing I am just playing.
I am still building the shed with whatever comes up log wise. I have been to lazy to go and get more logs. I think this one is some kind of hickory. Probably not good siding but I am betting it last till I die and then some. If it doesn't then it doesn't.
Well time to contact the people that sold me the motor. I do really like this motor compared to the 9 horse one.
Cheers
gww
Gww, one of these days i would like to meet you ,you sound like a down to earth kind of feller. your the only one i know having that kind of trouble. maybe you can make us all some chicken and dumplings :D
Dusty
It will have to be chicken and dumplings and I should be making more of it then I am cause I sure am not getting any eggs right now.
Some of the chickens are getting old and should have been culled but somehow they have become sorta pets. Go figure.
You never know, you might be going through my area some day and decide to stop. I am usually home cause I stay here and piddle and don't go out too much. I have been retired going on 3 years and can't seem to get over how fun it is to stay home. That may change someday but if you come to Rosebud MO now you will catch me here and would be welcome to boot.
I tell every body to stop by if they need a laugh.
Cheers
gww
Catastrophic failure today with my jack shaft. Since it was on water pipe, I am surprized I cut so much wood with it. The water pipe finally sheared.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/1027161551-00.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1477603782)
It took out the tire also.
I bought a tire at orslens for $27 and took it to my uncles who has a tire changer. Bought a 2.5 inch pully to put where the 3.5 inch pully is now and just ran strait from the motor with no jack shaft.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/1027161552-00.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1477604054)
Put that little idler pully on so that I could use my origianal belt insted of buying a new one.
Finished cutting up the 6x6 cant that was on the mill and so far all systems go.
Cheers
gww
Ps the forum tool box puts me at either 5000 foot per min. or 5500 foot per min. Probly a little fast but not so fast that I can't play a small amount with rpm and not lose much.
Good job fixing and keeping going, gww. That big belt don't like going around that little pulley on the engine much, does it? You're right about playing with the RPMs. The trick is keeping the RPMs as constant as possible through the cut which I'm sure you already know. Heck, sometimes I edge a few boards at just above idle, just enough to keep the clutch engaged, and get a kick out of seeing a good cut at slow speed.
Ox
Broke another belt today and so I bought an inch shorter and it still bounces a lot and I am wondering if I should have went 2 inches shorter. I moved the pully out a little and then back alittle and it isn't lined up great but I never do great if I can get it to work. Got another big hickory on the mill so it should be a good test. My motor is not perfectly square but may end up working for a minimalist. I was getting zero slippage that I could see or feel even with the longer belt and it is cutting exelent so if I get it to stay on I should be golden.
My wood is more expensive now due to the two belts, tire and new pully, but it is all good. The only belt adjustment I have is the tilt motor so if I break another belt I will get an inch shorter and try that.
When I am cutting the 3 inch batton I almost have to run or idel the engine down cause it just flys though the small stuff. It is a little slower on the big hickories though :laugh:.
Thanks for looking.
Cheers
gww
Ps the bad thing about a belt coming off is there is that really nice sharp blade there to chop it into peices half of the time.
Hey guys, first comment... I'm sorry, but I've glanced over all 29 pages on this post... Can someone please direct me to the comment(s) where the original problem, wavy cuts and such, was solved (page number, etc.)...
Just fyi, I have the same issued with my saw... It's also homemade and cuts wavy like described... I will post pictures of mine as soon as I have a chance
maz
First of all, welcome.
I can't tell you exactly what fixed the problim cause I did so many changes. When my blade gets dull or a bearing goes out in my guide or if one of the guides gets lose or a weld breaks, I can still get wavy cuts and lastly some logs due to stress in the logs are just impossible to cut well.
All that said, I believe the turning point was when I got the wheels level as I could with the track and then when I got the guide and put a strait edge on the blade its self right near each tire and then measured down to the log deck (bars the log sit on). The measurement from the strait edge down should be the same in the front of the blade as it is down from the strait edge to the log deck in back. At that point, you know your blade is traveling paralel with your track.
Member magic man of this forum has a picture of this process but I looked though his gallory of pictures and he must have a million of them and so I can't really point you to it.
I believe there are other critical things like drive belt slipping and such that could affect the wave also but if you have a sharp blade and a well aligned blade compared to your track, You will have eliminated those as being bad and then can look furture.
If you don't understand what I am saying please ask and I will try harder to make it clear.
If you started a thread of your own and maby posted a picture of what you are working with, there are some very smart people here that may be able to help you like some helped me.
If you don't and want to know more from me cause I did do a lot of things to get mine going. Keep asking here and I am sure we will get it going well enough. I am sure others may chime in here also but am also sure that your questions will be welcome no matter how you go about it.
Good luck
gww
maz
Post 103 of this thread has a picture of one way to put a strait edge on a blade so that you can measure in front and behind it. I will admit that I just put a 2 foot level on my blade making sure it is not on a tooth that has the set facing up. I then put a strait edge (piece of aluminum from a storm door) on my log deck and then measure from the bottom end of the level to the strait edge laying on my log deck. I try to get the exact measurement in front of the blade and in back of the blade.
Good luck
gww
mazdathumps - gww just gave a quick and easy way to make sure your blade is parallel to the bed/deck of your mill. It's the same method I use and it's given me good readings. This measurement needs to be as perfect as you can get it. I'm talking within a 1/16". At least this is how picky I am and I'm able to saw straight lumber except in red pine that's been down or dead for a few years. The slightly punky wood and row after row of growth knots always gives me wavy cuts from the different densities of the wood. Going from soft to rock hard, pitchy knots will throw a blade around every time. The only way I can get straight cuts is to go so slow it drives you mad. I'm talking around maybe a foot or foot and a half a minute. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
Thanks GWW and OX... Very helpful... The reason I ask about this is the fact that I have many variables that could be the cause of my blade wandering (wavy cuts)...
First I will check for blade being parallel to log bed. That seems simple enough (and i'm thinking I did this when I build it all, but will do again)...
Here are my other obstacles:
1) Drive wheel is on the left and pushes the blade through as compared to pulling the blade through. This I plan to change.
2) My drive belt had a little play in it also, so that has already been fixed.
3) Being that I'm using a 5hp Tecumseh, I'm using RPMs to replace the lack of torque, therefore I upped by 1/2" the size of my drive pulley on the engine, hoping to get a higher blade speed at the same or less RPMs. These pulley sizes were key when I built my mill, because I knew that the 5hp engine was so small and would by bogged down very easily. I did math for days and even built a calculator on Excel to figure pulley sizes and blade SFPM based on RPMs. Hopefully this will improve the rate at which my bogged down 5hp engine pulls the blade through the wood. (maybe it was slowing the blade down too much, to be short)
4) My bearing guide assemblies were crap since day one. I think I understand that the blade is not supposed to ride on the guides, but rather use the guides to correct a wandering blade (correct me if i'm wrong on that)... I used a plastic gift card as the space between my blade and guide bearings. These are already removed to be rebuild and adjustable on the mill.
5) My final obstacle is the 5hp engine mentioned above... I assume the higher the HP, the faster and more fluent the cut?? Not sure about this one...
Now that my dirty laundry is out there 8) , is any or all of this relevant to the wavy cuts? lol If i'm going to tear the whole thing down to fix one thing, I want to fix it all...
Thanks in advance for any help and comments... People around my town think i'm nuts for even trying to build this mill...
Pushing the blade through the wood just don't work.. The guide rollers should definitely put pressure on the blade. Most of us run a 1/4 inch down force. Normally 1/8 gap between the back of the blade and guide roller.
are your guides a flanged roller or another bearing ? Of all the adjustments you can make, I find the relationship between the guides and the blade to be the most critical...
Quote from: mazdathumps on January 31, 2017, 09:54:45 AM
4) My bearing guide assemblies were crap since day one. I think I understand that the blade is not supposed to ride on the guides, but rather use the guides to correct a wandering blade (correct me if i'm wrong on that)... I used a plastic gift card as the space between my blade and guide bearings. These are already removed to be rebuild and adjustable on the mill.
5) My final obstacle is the 5hp engine mentioned above... I assume the higher the HP, the faster and more fluent the cut?? Not sure about this one...
Now that my dirty laundry is out there 8) , is any or all of this relevant to the wavy cuts? lol If i'm going to tear the whole thing down to fix one thing, I want to fix it all...
Thanks in advance for any help and comments... People around my town think i'm nuts for even trying to build this mill...
These are your two biggest problems.
The blade guides should be adjusted so that the back bearing surface is a hair off the back of the blade when running. When you start to cut, it will likely touch as you push through the log.
The blade guides the should apply 1/4" to 1/2" of down pressure on the blade. This keeps the blade at the angle (flat) to the log and thwarts the upward movement.
5HP is just too small. When the engine bogs, the blade will wander - end of story :-\ A 10hp would be a minimum with 15-20hp being your target.
I would also be thinking about gearing down the blade speed rather than up with that engine. If you are trying to cut at the band speeds some of the larger engines are using you are going to be using most of your power just to spin the wheels and blade.
Thanks Pineywoods and ljohnsaw... I guess i'm going back to the drawing board (as planned) to reconfigure the guides... I setup my guides as I would a woodshop bandsaw... That's a bit of info that I never ran across with the original build... While on the subject, is it better to use the flanged bearings or 3-sided stacked bearings like i'm currently using (2 top, 2 bottom, and 1 rear)??
As for the engine, I've been looking for a cheap one around my area, but haven't found one... I guess i'm going to have to get off my wallet and buy one... lol
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20160707_204600.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1485874752)
Quote from: Sawmill Man on January 31, 2017, 10:33:07 AM
I would also be thinking about gearing down the blade speed rather than up with that engine. If you are trying to cut at the band speeds some of the larger engines are using you are going to be using most of your power just to spin the wheels and blade.
I'm open to changing this with a new larger engine... As for now, my calculations and pulley sizes have me right at about SFPM on blade matching RPM of engine (+/- 200 SFPM)... My engine runs at about 4500 rpm no load, which puts my blade speed between 3800 and 4000 SFPM under load... It's slow going for sure... I will have to reconfigure pulley sizes with a different engine anyways, so I think I'll tackle that task when I get the new engine (which hopefully won't be too long)...
Thanks for the input, it's helpful...
Quote from: mazdathumps on January 31, 2017, 10:48:00 AM
Quote from: Sawmill Man on January 31, 2017, 10:33:07 AM
I would also be thinking about gearing down the blade speed rather than up with that engine. If you are trying to cut at the band speeds some of the larger engines are using you are going to be using most of your power just to spin the wheels and blade.
I'm open to changing this with a new larger engine... As for now, my calculations and pulley sizes have me right at about SFPM on blade matching RPM of engine (+/- 200 SFPM)... My engine runs at about 4500 rpm no load, which puts my blade speed between 3800 and 4000 SFPM under load... It's slow going for sure... I will have to reconfigure pulley sizes with a different engine anyways, so I think I'll tackle that task when I get the new engine (which hopefully won't be too long)...
Thanks for the input, it's helpful...
Are you running a 2 cycle engine? If not I would not want to
be around it if you got it peg at 4500 rpm.
The faster you spin the blade the less power you will have
from the engine. First you need to change the drive wheel
to pull not push. Did you ever try to push a rope? It doesn't
work.
Maz
The type of guide you have is a standard type on some production mills. Most of the members here favor the cook guides with down pressure. Some mills don't even have bearings on the guide but use something like ceramic blocks. I like the down pressure cause it helps with really fine tuning and not having to relie on perfection of your wheel alighment though you should want that good enough that you could cut with out guides, then with guides you are golden.
I do think if you add the adjustments to go with it that the proper size roller guide gives you that final adjustment to really tune your blade well. I got mine cutting fairly well with out guides and when I finaly added them it really brought it home.
I agree with the slowing of the blade speed. If you want to double check your numbers. There is a caculator in the tool box that is below all the advertizement on the left of your screen.
You might be able to cut with a 5 horse but bigger is better.
I started with nine and then bought a $300 18 horse. The nine did cut some wood though, it just went bad. The 18 is better.
I also changed my drive wheel to pull the blade rather then push it.
Most engines run about 3400 rpm full out if you decide to use the caculator.
I will say this, I would rather try and cut with the 5 horse with a really well alighned mill then a bad alighned mill and big motor. My motor does not fix the cut when something is not right or tight. A bigger motor is lots better if everything else is good.
Some of my biggest problims that I still deal with on my mill is belt slipping and alighnment and flex of the whole mill letting me only get so much tension on the blade. Mostly it is doing good now but did take some beefing up. I still have small things that happen. Guide bearing going out or a nut coming lose. Things do work better if everything is pretty solid with no wiggle.
I really don't know what else to say untill you try a few things. These other guys are good at what they do and also have been doing this and building stuff for longer then me.
Good luck
gww
Everyone else already gave you good advice so I won't simply repeat what they've said. I will add one thing: The 13hp Predator engine at Harbor Freight is an excellent engine for the price. Great reviews, cheap price. I run one on my mill and am very satisfied with it. I milled an ancient black cherry that was around 30" across with no problems. It was a bit slow milling but cut well. The trick here is to keep the RPM consistent. Changing blade speed will cause wavy cuts. On average trees I have zero problems with power. It's all in the blade and alignment and blade speed remaining constant. With your small engine you should be gearing down and getting a slower blade speed. Like downshifting a truck on a hill. Blade speed is relevant - slower blade speed simply means a slower cut rate. In other words: slower head speed traveling down the track while you're cutting.
When your budget allows, I highly recommend Cooks blade guides. Hard to beat.
You want your blade speed so that each tooth of your band
is shaving so many 1000ths of an inch off the wood. Not enough
and the tooth is just rubbing the wood making the tooth dull.
To much and you will bog down the engine.
Feed speed has a bunch to do with this as well, no? Relativity and all that...
Wow. Lots of helpful comments and concerns... Thank you all... I'm planning to take this whole thing down for a little while and get to work on it... I will order the guides from Cooks, since everyone seems happy with them... I will also find a bigger engine... Also, I will swap my live wheel to spin the opposite direction, thus pulling the blade through my wood... My blade speed calculator is dead on with these online calculators, so I'm good I think on calculating blade speed...
With all that being said, It will take some chop, cut, and rebuild on a few things, but I'm game as long as I get this mill working well... My goal is to never buy wood again or maybe even make a few dollars here and there... 8)
I can't thank everyone enough for the helpful comments...
josh
It would be exciting and neat if you showed a couple more pictures as you go through the fixing. No matter what, after you do some of the work, it would be nice to hear the outcome and also your thoughts on what you think helped you the most.
It might help somebody else in the future.
Good luck
gww
If I recall, didn't you have much better results just after changing your blade to pulling instead of pushing, gww? This will go a long ways for you, mazda. like k said, you can't push a rope! :laugh:
GWW, I'll see what I can do for pictures and updates...
for OX and GWW, my first plan is to get the rotation swapped around to where my blade pulls through the wood... It's a no-brainer but I thought it would still work because of the tension, but I should have just fixed this problem when I built it originally...
As for the Cook's roller guides... Ooouch!! Is there anywhere to get these cheaper?? lol
They are pricey, yes. They are also one of the most important parts of your mill. You don't want to take shortcuts with your guides. Trust me on this one. Been there, done that, got the T shirt and said what's next. If I remember they're around $50 each. Don't forget needing that zerk bolt (greasable bolt) that holds them on. Grease at the end of the day every time and they'll last forever.
Or are you looking at the entire $200+ complete guides? No experience with these. But it sure would make things easier for you in the long run being able to adjust perfectly.
Josh
I had a wind fall on my guides. Member leggman made them and gave them to me. I was getting ready to buy some cooks myself. Do you know some one with a lathe? I am pretty sure he used 1.5 inch round stock and I would like to say 3/8 inch bolt. The round stock besides being cut down so it has a flange on back is hollowed out on each end with cheep bearings in them.
I think I could get someone to do them for me now that I have seen them. I have a brother in law with a lathe.
Ox The changing of the drive wheel was the start of getting things better. I did have ebbs and flows after that with getting good cut and then losing it. Speed was the second thing for me as I was going at ove 8000 fpm. By the way ox, You were the first to notice the drive wheel being on the wrong side and I think it was also like your first post on this forum. It was lucky for me that you joined when you did.
I have had lots of little issues and still do some times. One now is how long a blade last. I am better now that I grind on them but still am not going to get 1000 bf of lumber from one.
Josh
If I was you, I would be getting ten blades (about $200) while I was tuning in my mill. You really need good blades when trying things so that you are working with one thing that you don't need to worry about. They will not cut that much wood. Once you get the bugs out you can then go back and play with the blades and try and get a few more boards out of them. When fixing the mill. If you are getting close, go ahead and put a new blade on it just to see what you have when every thing is best. If you change something major, put a new blade on to try it out. When you know you have it, go back and try for more boards out of the used blades.
I think the guides make a mill, I am glad that I got my mill cutting some pretty decent boards before adding the guides that leggman made for me. The reason I say this is cause then when adding the guides, if you have problims, you can be pretty sure of where the problim is, the last thing you did, adding guides. It keeps you from doing a scatter gun attack on your mill where you change so much at once that you don't have an Ideal of which helped and which hurt. Make no mistake in what I am saying, You get better boards using guides. I am more talking of a way to solve problims by insulating them one by one and trying the adjustments you have made to see what effect they have had.
I feel you pain on the major changes like drive wheel and stuff like that. Been there and done that and all I can say is I cut alot of boards for my hobbies. You will too.
Good luck
gww
Ps You guys got me excited enough to start my mill today. I made one cut on a pretty big log and then quit for the day. I did haul off a bunch of sawdust and make a pile. I haven't used the mill for probly a month and a half. I did plane 13 boards day before yesterday so I could keep building bee hive stuff. I am compleetly out of one bys now and cut maby three logs in december to get some stickered and drying for next year.
Besides building bee hive stuff the last thing I built was a king size head board for my daughter. I am slopy and don't like doing furnature type stuff cause I just don't care. Hopefully she will take a ball teen hammer and chain to it to make it look old and then the lack of much sanding and the one gap (so far) wont show so bad.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/0101171602-00.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1485984222)
Cheers
gww
You're too hard on yourself - it looks great. Rustic is the best look there ever was. It looks good and sturdy
Oh man, lots to reply to... hope i don't forget some things...
GWW, the head board looks nice... I have built a few headboards, but never with my own milled wood... That seems exciting... Also glad we got you back on the saw today...
As for the metal lathe... There is a long story behind this, but to keep it short, I was given one (like a real nice big one) but have no way to get it home or unloaded once it's here... It only needs a new motor... The problem is it weighs like 5000 pounds and is like 8 feet long... My tractor would collapse under that weight... lol I will probably end up just buying the Cook's guides since they are proven to be liked by everyone that has had them...
Yesterday, I nearly drilled a 6" phillips bit (yes a #2 phillips bit) through my thumb when it slipped off the screw head, so today has been less productive than normal for me since my thumb feels like it was hit with a sledge hammer... Anyways, I was able to tear down the saw today, leaving the axles and hubs to keep them aligned (don't want to go through all that again)... I've decided to just flip the whole thing end over end and reattach all my items to the top... This will put my drive wheel on the right and pull the blade through instead of pushing it through... I may be done tomorrow with that since I don't like to not finish something once I start... I have uploaded a few pictures of the tear down... Looks lonely with nothing on the frame, but it's all going to work correctly soon...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170201_154308.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1485988460)
This is the currently used setup from the back... This will all be flipped end over end and all the stuff on top willl be welded to the [new] top...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170201_154301.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1485988475)
Just another view of the current setup... I pulled the guides off after my last cut, so don't waste your time looking for them in these pictures...
Not sure why it won't let me upload more... I'll keep trying and post the others of the tear down... There's only 2 more, but it won't let me uplaod...
Did you think about putting in a jack shaft and just turning your engine around ?
Josh
That mill looks like a very solid base. Your enthusiasm for the "ideal" of using your own wood to do stuff makes me think that even with the real hard work of actually cutting your own wood, You are going to be the type that gets pleasure out of having your own mill.
I hope your gaurds are not too affected on the flipping of your platform.
Sorry about your finger, on the other hand, it is hard to get hurt when sitting in an easy chair eating potato chips. You are out getting it and so some pain is to be expected.
I never use any fluid when cutting any more. I did when I first built it but ended up likeing it better with out it. I don't cut pine though. I do keep a little squirt bottle hanging by my hand that I can give it a squirt if I needed to. I don't squirt very often either though.
I like what you got going and am dissapointed you couldn't get the other pictures to work. You got one on so I don't know what could be wrong. Maby you reached a data limmit due to size or amount in one post or something.
I don't expect you to feel obligated to answer everything that I post cause I am retired and may have more time then you. I do get genuine pleasure out of getting updates to what you are doing and how things you tried worked or didn't work. I might learn something.
I really think your mill looks good and when you get the bugs out is going to be a pretty solid work horse.
Ox being so supportive when I was working on my mill was a real moral booster. I see he hasn't changed by his last post. He always makes me feel good about myself.
Good luck with your tweeks and I wish you the best.
Forgive all my spelling mistakes.
gww
Quote from: Kbeitz on February 01, 2017, 06:29:29 PM
Did you think about putting in a jack shaft and just turning your engine around ?
My reason for flipping the saw instead of changing setup was due to the different items that would have to be changed, such as the log bed would then have to be setup differently... I also wanted to throw the sawdust into the vacant land behind me instead of all over my stuff (right or wrong, it's the truth)... I battled with a couple options and this seemed best for what i'm working with... Trust me, I just wish I would have done it right the first time around...
GWW, I could tell that you and OX seem to be on the same page and I'm pretty happy that ya'll are taking the time to help me get my saw issues ironed out... I appreciate you two and everyone elses help... I have nobody around here to go talk with or look at their mills... All the folks around me only know one saw and it's a Woodmizer (there are no others in their eyes)... We have a pretty big sawmill about 20 minutes from me, but it's like a full on 24/7 mill with lots of people hired on... I did hear that he started out with a homemade bandsaw mill tho... pretty cool to think about...
The water line on mine is pretty much there because it seemed lots of mills have them, so I followed suit... Not sure it even does anything other than piece of mind... lol
I'll try to load up these pics again... Otherwise, I'm hitting the hay and starting back on this thing in the AM...
My saying is,We all need to do something twice,so we know how to do it the second time.
One example is when we go away,like a vacation. If we go back to the same area we know what areas to go to and what areas to keep away from.
That's a good way to look at it... I've learned a lot by doing it twice (or more times)...
More blade guide info....Yeah, they are pricey, but worth every penny. Woodmizer guides are almost identical to cooks, and about the same money. On thing that runs up the price, is they are tempered very hard metal. Mine wore off tapered after several thousand hours. I chucked them in my lathe to turn them back flat. A carbide bit won't even scratch them...bearings, don't skimp on them. calculate how fast those little rollers turn and you'll see why.. grease,,,at the speed the rollers turn, ordinary grease will be all slung off before you get to the end of the first cut. Use good quality sealed bearings and forget the grease.
Sounds good Pineywoods... I'm sure i'll be purchasing the Cook's or Woodmizer guides soon... It seems EVERYONE is happy with these...
GWW, I forgot to respond about the blade cover I made... It will NOT fit with the new setup, but the good thing is that was a prototype anyways (and it worked perfectly), so this time I'll make it with some heavier gauge steel or aluminum and rivet it instead of sheet metal screws which just back out from vibration...
As for progress on my mill, rebuild if we want to call it that, I manged to flip it over end over end using the same setup on my axles, hubs, tension plate, etc... I built my engine mounts and battery box and that worked out... The engine mount is a 1/4" steel plate and pretty much allows for easy swap outs on engines - 4 bolts out, new motor, 4 bolts back on, your swapped out... While redoing all of this, I wanted a kill switch (instead of choking the engine down), so I added a kill switch and new solenoid just because...
Now on to my problems, that once again will need some repairs... Trying to mount the tension pulley and lever has whooped me, so far... Apparently, it matters which side of the belt you engage the pulley... After building, welding, and painting the new bracket, I have a very wobbly belt even with much tension on it... I will have to swap the side of the belt that the pulley engages on, which looks like a rebuild, reweld, and trial and error.........AGAIN.......
Another issue i'm having is my pillow block bearings... The set screw holes on some of them have small cracks coming from them, not allowing me to torque the set screws down as tight as they need to be... Thus causing my axle to slip around, throwing off my alignment... Hopefully, this will only require the purchase of pillow block bearings, replace, and be done with...
So, there's my update on the troubleshooting... I think I'll give her a break for a couple days, it's wearing me thin right now, plus I have to work 12 hour nights this weekend and sleep some of the day, which is taxing as it is...
Thanks everyone for the help and info... As always, I can't begin to thank everyone enough... I should be back on in a few days...
Idler pulleys always goes on the slack side of the belt.
And for best traction they should be on the back side of the belt.
Thanks Kbeitz, wish i had know that about 6 hours ago... haha, I know now tho...
As for blade speed (mentioned several posts back), I physically rotated the engine once and measured actual blade movement... Each revolution moves the blade 13.75"... At 3500 RPM, that would leave me at a blade speed of 4010.42 SFPM...
3500 x 13.75 = 48,125 / 12 = 4010.42
Calculators are about 500 SFPM off from that number... My own calculator and misc internet calculators put me at about 4526 SFPM @ 3500 RPM...
My drive pulley is 3", my driven pulley is 10.25", my exterior diameter of drive wheel is 16.875"...
Anyways, this is my info, not sure how 2+ calculators were wrong on the actual blade speed... Maybe the depth of the v-groove has something to do with it... That's roughly 11% off...
Josh
QuoteThanks everyone for the help and info... As always, I can't begin to thank everyone enough... I should be back on in a few days...
Can't wait.
I am so lazy and cheap that on problims like your pillow blocks, lots of times I use a small weld. Not suggesting others do so cause things become more permanate and then you have to buy whole new shafts and things if it goes bad. I still do it all the time though.
To me it sounds like you are reconizing the things that need done. It sounds like sometimes that is happening after the fact but still in the end you will get it correct. If you look at all kbietz toys, you will see he has lots of practice on building things and sometimes probly doesn't have to do things twice like I would cause I need to see it first to know I screwed up.
12 hour shifts and on the weekend too. When I did a schedule like that, I had time to wake up and clean up and eat and it was time to go to work. I didn't build my mill till I was retired and then I worked on my mill full time. You must have a pretty decent energy level. Good for you.
Good luck
gww
Ps My view of your blade speed differrence from the caculator probly has to do with the true rpm of the motor. I am not an expert but think that using that motor, You definatly don't want to go any faster. I always heard that going slower with a smaller motor gives you more tourqe. If you run onto a bigger motor that speed will probly be good. My first motor was off of a garden tiller. Maby you need to ask all your freinds what is sitting in there garages being unused. I think sometimes the trannys on the garden tillers go out before the motors.
Good luck
haha, GWW... my energy levels... Yeah, I'm 35 and got 30 years until retirement... 2017 is already a pretty busy year for me. I put in over 40 hours a week at my local electric company, I have this sawmill I need to get going, I'm adding onto my shed, I make a homemade BBQ Sauce that I'm making legal and having packaged this year for national sales, I have to start on an AA/AS degree for work, my wife is about to start college in July, and I have a 5 year old girl that is all energy... As for my energy levels, I don't have a choice but to keep the wheels rolling... haha
Yeah, I'm looking hard for an engine, but I'm like you, I'm pretty cheap and have been waiting for the right deal on one... I'm not scared to work on it, so even a rough running engine would suit me fine... I tend to think I can do anything I can educate myself on...
The best pillow block bearings comes with a twist collar.
It keep the bearings from twisting on the shaft.
If you have questionable bearing lock screws and are having problems keeping them from loosening up, use red loc-tite. Make sure your surfaces are perfectly clean - carb cleaner or acetone for this. Then put that red on the shafts and screws and everything you want to NOT loosen up. It's what was called for in the blueprints for my mill. It works great. To take apart again, heat loosens up loc-tite. Of course, you do all this AFTER you've set it up and are absolutely sure everything's where you want it to be. Having to do this all over again would be maddening and a huge mess to boot.
Of course, what Kbeitz said is absolutely true. The twist collar, or eccentric locking bearings, are best. It's what's on lots of farm equipment.
Kbeitz and OX, thanks for the info on the bearings... I will look for them when I go to buy the new ones...
I used the blue Loctite and they backed right out... Maybe i'll try the red this time... I also ground a small flat spot on the axle to seat the set screw on - they still slipped... I was considering drilling a small hole about 1/32" deep into the axle for the set screw to fall into, is that a bad or ok idea??
I'm wondering why your having so much problems with your set screws.
They are there only to keep the bearing from spinning on your shaft.
I'm thinking that your shaft is to small for the bearing or it's bent
I've seen 100's of bearing missing the screws and still no problems.
If things are lined up right it should take very little to keep your
bearings from spinning. You might also have a vibration problem.
Kbeitz, I'd like to know too, why i'm having the problems... Once my blade is tight, there is a force that wants to move my axle backwards out of the bearings... It is so strong that even the external retaining ring that holds the hub in place peals out of the groove sometimes... I'd sure like to know... I've replaced about a half dozen retaining rings between the two sides... and probably replaced a dozen set screws because they back out and fall off the machine (even after just one cut sometimes)... I've also broken my 1" hardened steel axles 3 times... The last time one broke, I ground it down to points and welded it back together (then spun it with a file to the correct diameter) and believe it or not, it's straight and hasn't broke since (also added a third pillow block bearing for more support)... I'm clueless as to why i've had so many problems with this saw... It's been one thing after another on this project... I've successfully cut 5 kind of wavy pine logs since I started about a year ago...
I should have joined this forum before starting, maybe I could have seen and heard some ideas that might have steered me in other directions before starting... I can say that I've learned a lot with this sawmill... I'm still learning as we see right now... haha
I think what I would do is to find a 1-1/2" shaft with bearings and have
someone turn down one side for you to fit your hubs. This way the hub
could not move past the turned part. Or... Could you drill out your hubs
to a larger size?
It would be more likely to mill down the larger diameter shaft... How well do split collars work on things like this?
How much tension are you getting on your mill and how do you tell when you have it like you want? If you ever get it like you like it, It seems to me a ridge of weld behind the collor to keep it from pushing back would work as well as turning the shaft. It wouldn't help with the fact that the shaft might need to be bigger if you have already broke it once. However, If you just want it to hold long enough to use it for a while and see how everything works, a band of weld would stop the coller from sliding past. Just a though from someone who uses weld for everything he can rather then buying stuff.
Good luck
gww
Ps Or drill a hole in the shaft and stick a bolt in it to stop the coller and hope it is strong enough. Kbiets knows much more about building correctly then I do though.
They will help you a lot. But it wont fix what ever the problem
is that's popping your external retaining ring out.
Just one very little tiny spot of weld will stop anything from sliding
on a shaft.
I'm thinking your shafts are too small. My mill's blueprints specified 1-7/16" shafts. Close enough to call it 1-1/2". I can crank up to over 3000 psi hydraulically and have no problems. I don't typically run here as it's harder on the bearings but it proves the shaft strength. Not hardened or anything either. Your shafts are flexing, I think. It doesn't take much on a shaft to double your strength in it. That 1/2" extra will likely triple your strength in the shaft.
If you think about it, a bending shaft will break like yours. A bending shaft will want to walk the bearings off, like yours.
The red loctite needs to be on the shaft for the bearings to stick to, too. Clean, clean, clean. Then don't touch the metal so your fingers don't get oil on it. Smear the red right on the shaft then slide your bearing over it. Smear the red around by twisting the bearing's collar on the shaft. Add locking screw with red on it and tighten. Wipe off excess with a paper towel or rag. Don't touch anything or move anything for a day. This will ensure it holds the best way possible.
My shaft size is 30mm. or 1.1811 . If I could have made it bigger I would
have but the 30mm. bearings was inside my wheels. So far no problems.
But I'm also using 4150 steel containing chromium and molybdenum as strengthening agents.
I ran my jack shaft with 3/4 inch soft iron water pipe. Yes it did eventually break, but I also cut a lot of wood before it broke and didn't have to buy anything to use it. I (being the me that I am) would use a 1 inch solid shaft if that is what I had till it broke. I would weld on it and bend on it knowing that everything I do is a throw away item. Then I would use it as long as I could but while using it I would keep my eyes open for something better that I could get for almost no money. My jack shaft with the water pipe did take out my tire when it went which was $27 and so it may have cost more then it needed to. I did get to keep cutting boards for a long time before that happened and so it depends on how you count on wether it was a good thing or bad. I would drop a peice of weld on the current shaft and use it if I thought all that would happen is the shaft might break but would really hurt nothing else even if it broke.
I would do this to keep moving and working out other bugs even if my over all plan was to get bigger made for it.
Just my honest opinion.
gww
The above might mean you have to run with a bit less blade tension and look at your drive wheel mounting to make sure it is mounted to put the least amount of pressure on your shaft.
That's true. If you can keep a sharp blade on you don't need to run as much tension. I've experimented a little with this. I've cut straight hardwood boards with 1000 psi and a sharp blade. How much tension this is on the blade and shafts - no idea. The pressure gauge is all I have to measure with.
Well, I had a big long reply to everyone's comments typed and it all got deleted when I hit POST... Soo, anyways... Let's try again with less typing...
The axle(s) were purchased from BMI Kart's online as 1" hardened steel axles... I've bought two of them so far... They had the keyways in the right places for my driven pulley and external retaining ring slots and keyways perfect for my hubs, so that's why I used them over and over... Anyways, I have already added a third pillow block bearing inline to the idle wheel side (which is also my tension and alignment wheel) hoping to hold that axle together... Fingers crossed or I might have to upsize the axles...
As for the spot weld on the axles, that's not a bad idea... Maybe that mixed with the split collar will solve the retaining ring issue and hold the axle still in the bearings... With the collars removed, I will have room to grind off the weld when/if I need to remove the axle...
I will be pretty busy this week with helping a buddy on some electrical stuff, but maybe I can find some time to work on this... I'm excited to try some new "fixes"... Thanks everyone for the great info...
I forgot to explain the blade tension on my mill...
I have no idea what the tension is... It is tight enough to make a tone when I tap it and a screw driver bounces around on it when I lay it on the blade and tap the blade... It seems tight enough to me... With full blade tension, the center of my tires are not pulled down into the tire and they are aired up about 50psi... You know that "gut feeling" everyone talks about... Well, my gut feeling is the blade is tight enough it should cut a straight line...
As advised, I have a brand new blade on there right now, so once I make these changes I can see how it cuts with a fresh blade...
Josh
QuoteAs advised, I have a brand new blade on there right now, so once I make these changes I can see how it cuts with a fresh blade...
After playing with the shaft and stuff, take a small amount of time to check and see if the blade is parrelel to the bed. I can't wait for your first cut after all this. I think you are going to notice an improvement. I do my tension by the same method as you except I just take a finger and push down on the blade and see how hard it is to push it a half inch or so.
I have enough flex in my mill that I can only go so far and then can not hold the blade on the tires after a certain point. Another member on here did beef his up by putting a bar in front of the tires also. I doubt it is a problim with your mill as it is a four post and mine is only two post. Either way I don't have a guage or caliper and I just guess and I can't scrunch my tires either.
Help your friend and then cut a log and give us guys that are waiting an update on how your mill cuts. I bet it does well and for sure hope it does.
good luck
gww
GWW, I'm anxious to see it working correctly too... Someday I hope to pass on the info learned here with others who need the help... I'm a fan of a network of people... They say it takes a village to raise a kid and I believe it takes a village to be successful... Without resistance, we don't get stronger... I will cut with this mill and learn how to keep it together at the same time... :)
Josh
QuoteGWW, I'm anxious to see it working correctly too... Someday I hope to pass on the info learned here with others who need the help... I'm a fan of a network of people... They say it takes a village to raise a kid and I believe it takes a village to be successful... Without resistance, we don't get stronger... I will cut with this mill and learn how to keep it together at the same time...
smiley_thumbsup
Cheers
gww
I learned a long time ago that if i'm making a long post to
highlite it and copy before I hit the post button.
If you loose it all you need to do is paste it again.
kbeitz, I'll probably do that next time... lol
Can you try running the mill with less tension on the blade. That may help with the shafts moving so much. In my experience the less tension you have they better your blade guides need to be to get a good cut.
Normally I would say with a tire mill you need as much tension as you can get to make a straight cut but if the tension is breaking your shafts is isn't helping you.
Thanks Joe... Right now I don't have guides because of the re-build, but I will be getting some soon... I will have to learn tension all over again with guides... lol
Well guys, I have mostly good news... Today, I took a little time and setup my collars on the axle and drilled small divots in the axle for the set screws to fall into... They work perfectly... I have zero slippage on the axles... The bad news on this deal is I realized my front pillow block bearing is getting pretty hot and the axle near the bearing also... It's touchable, but you don't want to touch it for more than a second or two... That seems pretty hot to me, but maybe it's normal... Still happy about the axle staying in place though... It's a win in my book...
With the axle staying still, I decided I should cut some wood up to see how everything works since the re-build... Again, GOOD NEWS! She cuts pretty good now with the blade being pulled through the wood... I was cutting pretty wide peices (about 9+ inches) with my 5hp and NO GUIDES... It's slow, but I'm satisfied with the cut... I can only imagine the difference those blade guides will make once they are on and fine tuned... I'll be cutting straight I'm sure... With a larger engine, I'll be pushing through the wood in not time... I'm feeling pretty good about the changes so far... I'll try to post some pictures...
Quote from: mazdathumps on February 06, 2017, 06:29:20 PM
The bad news on this deal is I realized my front pillow block bearing is getting pretty hot and the axle near the bearing also... It's touchable, but you don't want to touch it for more than a second or two... That seems pretty hot to me, but maybe it's normal...
I would have to say NO, not normal. Heat is bad and could be coming from two sources, assuming nothing is obviously rubbing. If the bearings are dry (very bad), they will heat up and will likely lead to ceasing up. If the shaft is slightly flexing (due to blade tension combined with thinner shaft), that will result in metal fatigue and eventual failure of the shaft (breakage). Did you ever take a paper clip and bend the wire back and forth a bunch and then touch your brother's arm? ;) Same principle. Keep bending it back and forth and it will break.
I will put a new pillow block bearing in there and see if I still get heat with the new one... If so, then we can eliminate the dry bearings and assume it's the pressure of the tension... I'm really trying to steer away from going bigger on everything... That's a major fix on my saw mill... Lot's of money for all new parts too... I guess I'll have to see what the new bearing does then decide what's next...
If you deal on E-nay you will find pillow blocks at a good price...
I use Amazon Prime mostly... I pay annually for it and it's free 2-day shipping to my door... Can't beat it in my opinion... I think I just paid $8.something per pillow block bearing yesterday for the ones coming tomorrow...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170206_114008_28486x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486426623)
This is mid-process of mounting the collars and drilling the divot for the set screw...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170206_114152_28450x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486427726)
with the two collars mounted...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170203_125020_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486426863)
Frame flipped and mounting everything to this side... The plate under the engine can house pretty much anything that will fit on this sawmill... Built it this way so I can upsize my engine or swap out pretty easily...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170203_130559_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486426899)
I painted the wheels black while they were off... not sure why, but they look alright i guess
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170206_152334_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486426742)
a sample of how it cuts AFTER the flip over... Such a better cut than before... That's usable as is...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170206_120608_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486426735)
This is the biggest gap I was able to find on the first cut after the flip over... This is no guides at all... Not too bad I think
Josh
I am betting the new bearing will fix it. I had my wheel bearings go out and heat is what you get. I cut today myself. I broke a blade and so now am on my last two blades. I ordered 20 more just now. I didn't do my usual and order the absolute cheapest but paid $1.50 more per blade and had to buy 20 instead of my normal 10. I think I will now be using the same blade that ox uses on his mill. I believe they are an 8 degree blade instead of the 10 degree I have been using. I think this is the first blade I broke since buying my last ten blades of the softer type.
My log ended up giving me about seven 10 inch wide one bys.
I doubt I ever use the full 20 blade I bought today cause I am not cutting as often but I still have a pile of logs going on three years on the ground that I need to keep wittling on.
It sounds like you did see some improvement. Now if you can keep your belt from slipping and eventually get a bigger motor. It will be pretty good. If you get you guides lined out, you will probly see more improvement in your cut then you are seeing now even if you use the five horse for a while.
You seem to be pretty happy with your improvements unless I am reading you wrong.
I am happy for you though you did do the work to make it happen on your own.
Good luck
gww
ps I already had this typed before I saw your pictures and so posted it anyway.
Maybe you heat is coming from the first pillow block bearing
being so far back on the shaft. This will let your shaft flex.
You could move it up on the square stock and use longer bolts.
K
That is what I thought to but that is also his tensioner and so he would have to use air in the tire or something to change his blades.
gww
GWW is right... The plate that the pillow block bearings mount to is the tension and adjustment plate... It floats between the square frame and angle iron to allow for adjustment... The pillow block is as close to the hub as I can get it and the wheel is as close to the frame as I can comfortably get it... On the flip side of this plate is coupling nuts welded to the plate. The threaded rod threads through the coupling nuts and adjust that plate inward and outward or more on the back, more on the front, etc... It aligns, adjusts, and tensions... To change the blade, I adjust one side only and count my turns, then to tighten I just count that many back again... Start her up and fine tune it, but usually it's pretty close...
I have no argument on the distance being quite a strain on the axle and bearing, but it's my only choice on this mill... THIS is one of the things I would manage a little differently on the next mill... The 2 breaks were between the front and middle bearings, closest to the middle bearing (which is why I added it where I did)...
Gotta hit the sack... Thanks guys for the input, it's always helpful and keeps the wheels turning... Night 8)
Ok, I lied... I uploaded this real quick before bed... lol NOW, I'm actually going to bed...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20160803_114853-1_28800x75929.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486430894)
This is the bottom side of that plate, as described in a previous post...
Night guys
Josh
Goodnite. You could of course put a plate on top of your adjustment plate and bring it over the square tubing and weld it to you adjustment plate you have now and it would slide on the top of the square tubing. Put a plate on the other side to make it the same higth and it wouldn't matter if your wheel set a little furthure out cause your attachment points would still be closer to the wheels. Not saying you need to do this, Try new bearings first. It would stop you from a compleet redesign if you needed to do it. It would just be two plates of metal with holes drilled in it.
If you can even understand what I wrote, it is just one more ideal to think about. I personally never do anything untill something breaks if it is working at all. I do think of what to do for when it breaks though.
Good luck
gww
I absolutely follow you. I can't believe I hadn't thought of that already. Like you tho, I'll wait until it's a good time to do it...
Quote from: gww on February 06, 2017, 08:31:02 PM
Josh
Goodnite. You could of course put a plate on top of your adjustment plate and bring it over the square tubing and weld it to you adjustment plate you have now and it would slide on the top of the square tubing. Put a plate on the other side to make it the same higth and it wouldn't matter if your wheel set a little furthure out cause your attachment points would still be closer to the wheels. Not saying you need to do this, Try new bearings first. It would stop you from a compleet redesign if you needed to do it. It would just be two plates of metal with holes drilled in it.
If you can even understand what I wrote, it is just one more ideal to think about. I personally never do anything untill something breaks if it is working at all. I do think of what to do for when it breaks though.
Good luck
gww
This could be a good solution. That and running less tension once you get the new guides.
It might cost a few bucks more but you can buy a bearing with a
extended collar.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/extebded_collar.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1486448498)
I think my axle slippage has been solved... My new pillow block bearings came in today, so I will try to get them installed sometime this week (if possible)... Hopefully, this will be all I need for the heat issue... We shall see and act accordingly if it's a fail... lol
As for the nice cuts I got yesterday, today has been pretty bad... Not sure why - nothing is changed... I'm scratching my head... The cut gets worse the closer to hard wood I get (heart of pine in this case)... Could it be blade, blade speed, no guides, or everything together? I do plan to get the guides, but just thinking out loud here...
I'm at work, so I can't upload pictures right now, but the teeth are covered in hard sawdust... Is that normal? Seems it wouldn't be normal... If not normal, what is going on here and how do I solve that?
Josh
Do you have another new blade to put on the mill? You can always put the current one back on later. Is you blade diving or just all over the place and following the grain of the wood? I get the hard build up near the blade tips. I have never cut pine and so I don't know how they act. It may be that you need the lubricant. I never found that soap and water would soften the hard stuff on the blade. I have in the past sprayed the hard stuff with wd40 to try and soften it up. Just something to try once. Some times a blade will dull really fast. I usually try and power wash my logs before cutting.
Are you getting any domeing of the cut where it makes sort of a hump in the middle of the board? That would lead me to think that maby the tension is not tight enough. Guides will help quite a bit but it you have your blade running pretty parelel to your track you should do at least ok. That is pretty important.
If your blade is diving then you may be losing set in your blade though some say your build up you mentioned can also cause this.
It could be as simple as the log you are cutting. Some logs have enough stress that nothing does good. I think the smaller logs are some times the worst. Try a differrent log or flip the one you have for each cut just to see. Maby cut a bought board just to see.
When you get to the end of the cut can you pull the blade back over the cut with out moving anything?
Waiting to hear your thoughts on what I have typed.
gww
Ps is you drive belt slipping or are you pushing the motor to hard causing the rpm to really drop?
GWW... I will try to answer everything as I see it...
I do have one new blade left and I can try that one also... The blade is diving pretty bad - 1/2 inch plus, then I back off to keep from damaging anything... Long leaf yellow pine is common around me and it's mainly used for lumber... It's pretty soft pine with a small heart... If you get a seasoned heart, then the heart is like concrete... The problem with this type of wood is the bugs and worms gets in the bark and turns the wood a gray color (we call "blued")... It's only good for 2by's and such... They are not very old logs, so the heart should be manageable still... These logs had termites in the bark, so it was pressure washed last week, bark free when I was cutting it...
As for tooth set, could the tires be bending the tooth set? I can't imagine enough pressure from rubber changing the set on hardened teeth...
The logs are straight and have very little stress points, so i'm sure we can eliminate this...
The end of my cuts is interesting and It's always been the same way... The blade rises on entrance, then levels out for the whole log, and drops about an 1/8" of the end of the log... I assumed the blade guides would help settle this issue... Should I be concerned with this right now with no guides?
As for belt slip - no... It's very very tight (probably more than it should be actually)... And I try to maintain consistent RPM's throughout my whole cut.. The RPM's set my feed speed, which is very slow with my 5hp... I'm cutting about 3 inches every 10-15 seconds - SLOWWWW...
I think your problem right now is simple: put good guides on, set 1/4" down. You can't expect good cuts without control of the blade in between the bandwheels.
Good guides that hold the blade parallel and level front to back and side to side to the deck, with a good blade will give you a good cut. With the smaller engine it'll be slower.
Josh
You are saying two things. You say the blade is diving bad and later you say the blade is rising and then staying level. Did you lay a strait edge on where the log lays and one on the blade and measure from the one on the blade to the one sitting on where your log sits?
I did grind my tires with an angle grinder where the tips of the blade would be. I did this with out a belt hooked up and it gets the tire going pretty fast and I don't think I took much off. I have a new tire that I did not do this to on the mill now. Some say it will take the set out of the blade. If the set is out on the blade from the tire it will make the blade dive down into the wood. I doubt this is your problim but it is also very easy to put an angle grinder on the wheel and take a small amount off.
I just keep thinking it is your blade to your track. If you look at your blade on your tire you should be able to see how hard the tip might be digging into your tire.
Mine wil drop after the cut for a couple of reasons.
1 A dull blade or one I have ground on a few times and got off.
2 stress in a log. Yesterday mine droped where I could just bairly not pull it back over the cut untill I got through the middle of the log and then it was perfect for the rest of the cuts.
3 If my blade was not parelel with the track. The guides that leggman made me do allow an adjustment to bring the front or back of the blade up or down to make it perfect and so guide can make the final differrence. My view though was that I didn't want to spend that much money on something if it didn't make it work after I got them and so I wanted it to work before I got them so if I had to start over, I would not have just sent more money after a bad build. So my view is you should be able to get it to cut pretty good with out the guides and then getting them will be a plus and not just more waste.
When I have a bearing go out on a guide, my mill will act like you are saying untill I run down the problim. Or if my guide arms get lose.
Did the new blade do the raise and then stay thing on your very first cut with it yesterday when you got your good board. If it did then I say your alighment might still be off, If it didn't then maby your tires are taking out set though if that is the case your blade should be diving.
I have a whole bunch of bounce in my unballanced tires and mostly it does not affect the cut. I wonder if when you alighn your blade if you would rotate the tire 180 degrees and see if it is still alighned.
For a quick check I take a 2 foot level and sit it on the blade and then sit it on the track and see if the bubble in the level is pretty well in the same place at both places.
I would not put another blade on the mill if my first cut with the last blade acted like the rest of the cuts untill I changed something. Grinding the wheel, lineing up the blade or something. But yes, a new blade takes the question away from it being that causing the problim. If the other blade did not climb and then stay till it cut a little bit, I would grind the tire and reline the blade to the track and then try the new blade. Is your blade riding dead center of the tire up where there is a very small arch. (mine don't perfectly on both wheels but is close)?
I don't know for sure what might work and so just keep trying things. I still have issues every once in a while with mine and have to track down new problims.
What are your thoughts
gww
Ps ox posted while I was writing but I pushed post anyway. Hi ox
Thanks OX, i'm anxious to try some guides once I get around to ordering them... I hope they solve a majority if not all my issues...
GWW... I will keep plucking away at different things like you said... And to specify the two different cuts... IF I make it through my whole piece, like what I would consider a decent cut, is when it drops the 1/8th inch (it used to be 1/4 inch plus before this forum)... When it dives pretty badly, I back out and don't finish the cut... :)
Josh
Got it. This seems like it should be simple but I got 30 something pages that show it must not be. When things end up working it still seems kinda simple but when chasing problims......
I think you have a decent base going on and if you keep plugging and fiddling you will get some boards.
Do you think you are where you started before changing the drive wheel are do you think you are getting closer?
Ox may be right and the guides might bring it home. If I was you and you could get them solid and the bearings are good, I would put your original guides on one time and see what you have untill you get the roller guides. There are saws out there with that type of set up and what it does is stop you blade from turning up or down. Look up a hudson mill or woodland mill vidio on guide adjustment for a little more training on what you are trying to do.
You need good adjustment even with the roller bearings that put down pressure on the blade. And I do like them best but since you have the other ones, you have something to play with untill you pull the trigger for roller guides.
May help, may not.
Good luck
gww
Josh
If you ever want to really beef up your mill and get more tension, Here is what one member did (pictures of his fix at the end of the thread). It might solve more problims then you might think but would probly take even more power from your undersized motor. It is worth considering for strait cutting though.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,88250.60.html
Good luck
gww
You said you'r cutting really slow. You want to cut as fast as you
can. Running slow lets you'r band rub the wood instead of cutting.
This dulls the blade and makes heat. The heat will expand you'r
blade so that it's not as tight anymore. A rubbing blade tooth dulls
very quickly. It needs to be taking a bite of wood.
Can you try cutting something other than pine?
Pine and bass wood are the two hardest to cut straight woods if you guide system isn't set up correctly. Red oak, apple, maple, and ash are all much easier to cut straight than pine.
Also I have had rubber tires take the set out of my blades when the blade was riding too far back.
As of right now do you have any type of blade guide system on your mill?
Joe, I have no guides currently due to the rebuild a few pages back... I'm just trying to get a somewhat close cut right now... I don't expect perfection without the guides, but I don't expect the blade to wander, probably in total up and down, an inch different... I have some oak and a small piece of cherry, but they are pretty hard woods, harder than my pine...
Kbeitz, I can play around with this and see where it takes me... I seem to get a better cut at a lower RPM/lower blade speed without the guides... Not sure how or why that works out, but it seems to...
GWW, I would say overall, I'm at a better place now than before with the drive wheel swap... I'm happy with that, and it makes much more sense (something I should have build right to begin with, but thought I knew better)... Original guides were crap to begin with, thus the first thing that got pulled off the mill... They were not solid and weren't ok by any means... They won't ever go back on the mill lol... I will build the new brackets for the new guides once I get them and they will be solid... I will just have to wait until I get those to see how they work... Anything (or nothing in this case) will be better than what I had before...
I work for my local electric company in North Central Florida and we had some bad weather come through last night with lots of lightning, wind, and some tornadoes so I think with work being so busy, it will probably be next week before I touch my sawmill... Just bare with me, this week is going to be busy for us...
Josh
If you are not going to work on the mill you should look at the link to georgia88 that I posted. It was an ideal that a differrent builder had and if you find you have too much flex with the small shaft, something like this would fix you up. I wanted to do it to my mill but it was built in such a way that I am getting by so for with the little bit of beefing up that I did. If you get your guides but find in the end you still need a little more tension or if you see it putting a little too much pressure on your shaft (Which might or might not be fixed with a bigger shaft) this is one more way to skin the cat so to say and is probly the strongest way.
Just more to think about while you are fine tuning.
Good luck
gww
Quote from: mazdathumps on February 08, 2017, 05:31:56 PM
Joe, I have no guides currently due to the rebuild a few pages back... I'm just trying to get a somewhat close cut right now... I don't expect perfection without the guides, but I don't expect the blade to wander, probably in total up and down, an inch different... I have some oak and a small piece of cherry, but they are pretty hard woods, harder than my pine...
Kbeitz, I can play around with this and see where it takes me... I seem to get a better cut at a lower RPM/lower blade speed without the guides... Not sure how or why that works out, but it seems to...
GWW, I would say overall, I'm at a better place now than before with the drive wheel swap... I'm happy with that, and it makes much more sense (something I should have build right to begin with, but thought I knew better)... Original guides were crap to begin with, thus the first thing that got pulled off the mill... They were not solid and weren't ok by any means... They won't ever go back on the mill lol... I will build the new brackets for the new guides once I get them and they will be solid... I will just have to wait until I get those to see how they work... Anything (or nothing in this case) will be better than what I had before...
I work for my local electric company in North Central Florida and we had some bad weather come through last night with lots of lightning, wind, and some tornadoes so I think with work being so busy, it will probably be next week before I touch my sawmill... Just bare with me, this week is going to be busy for us...
With no guides at all I am surprised it will cut at all. Also hardness of the wood isn't the problem. The three woods that are hardest to cut straight are pine, popple and basswood(they are also the softest woods around here) Oak, maple and ash are much harder but they cut straighter.
Also Since you have no blade guides I would assume when you are cutting the blade move back on your wheels? If so it is probably taking the set out of the blade. I wouldn't try and cut anymore until you have a set of guides on the mill, even if you put your homemade ones back on until you can get a proper set.
I would also stick spruce in there as one of the hardest ones to cut.
wow. i'm once again boggled by softer wood being harder to cut than hard wood... I can't wrap my head around it, but I'm new and ya'll have been around this stuff, so I'll swap out the log and try again... I also may do like Joe says and just wait for the blade guides... And yes, the blade pushes back a little on the wheels, enough for the teeth to be just forward from the center of the wheel (possibly changing the set)...
GWW, I will have to look at that build at home instead of work, they block everything... I'm surprised I can get on this forum :)
I think what make it harder to saw is the change from soft wood
to extra hard knots and the pitch in softer woods gum up the blades.
Joe
I got my mill cutting pretty good before I put guides on it. I never noticed the blade ever change tracking while doing so. I have also backed up with the blade still moving in the cut and never had it change tracking on the tire though I have heard some using pullies for the blade to ride on have had the blade come off when moving backwards.
I think with a sharp blade that the ideal is for the blade not to ride on the roller guide back ridge and if it does this is one of the reasons for blades braking. I look at my guide and one of them does have a lip wore on it and so I know mine hits it at some times but reading the cooks website, I don't believe it is supposed to except in extreem circumstances.
I never move my guide in for narrow cuts and pretty much leave them as they are no matter how narrow the cut. I could probly get a little better cut if I did and having guides did make my cutting a bit more consistant but make not mistake. It should cut with out guides. However, if there is a small bit of unlevelness in your mill the guides should give you a decent way to adjust it out, the guide will not preform miracles if your mill is too far out because what happens is the blade ends up wanting to walk off the front of the guide or stays tight against the back ridge.
I have had my mill flex when running causing the blade to want to run off the tire. Like it will ride well untill I throttle the engine up to full speed. I run my tension right up to the edge of the point my mill will do this. I think josh's mill may have some of this in it and his tension could be changing during the cut due to flexing of the shaft that the tires are on. Guides might eliminate this to where it can be lived with. If not then he will need to bring his attachment points out closer to the tires or put a bar in front of the tires or do like the picture that kbeitz once posted of another wheel putting pressure from the inside of the wheel that the blade is on.
I wish my mill was a little stronger as far as flex goes and then I could try my tension up to the blade crunching the tires. I wish I had better drive belt alighment and adjustment so that I could keep my drive belt from slipping. In the end I get by just barily good enough not to have to adress these issues but I do wonder how much it cuts down my production and how much more I might be able to coax out of a dull blade.
Anybody who looks at my mill knows I am not an expert at this stuff. I have had enough problims though to be able to see the cause and effect of certain parts.
I would have rather had a super solid mill and be dumber then I am from building a rickity one.
I don't claim that I know anything for sure but these are things that I think I have noticed.
Cheers
gww
Josh
QuoteGWW, I will have to look at that build at home instead of work, they block everything... I'm surprised I can get on this forum
That build is on this forum.
Cheers
gww
Quote from: gww on February 08, 2017, 07:12:17 PM
That build is on this forum.
Cheers
gww
GWW, it blocks the pictures... I'll have to see them at home... :)
And I'm ignorant for the most part about this, but I feel the blade should still cut also, just can't expect perfect cuts... But like I said, I'm learning this stuff...
Quote from: mazdathumps on February 08, 2017, 08:00:43 PM
I feel the blade should still cut also, just can't expect perfect cuts... But like I said, I'm learning this stuff...
Just to give you an example. My mill can cut with no blade guides but the blade wonders up and down and often the cut has a side to side hump in it. I often have to take my guides off when starting on a log that is too large otherwise. When cutting without the guides I cut extremely slowly so I don't push the blade off the back of the of the wheels.
Just before I rebuilt my mill and I had my second set of crappy blade guides I had a log on the mill that even with a brand new(not resharpened but brand new)blade the mill physically could not cut. I would get several feet into the log and the blade would dive like crazy until the engine would bog down and I would stop the cut. It dove over an inch.
After I rebuilt the mill(I didn't touch anything with the alignment of the tires)I was able to put that exact same log on with a blade that had already cut several logs and I was able to cut it and nowhere did the blade wonder more than 1/16 of an inch. To get it to cut that well I had to pull the blade guide in so they were nearly touching the cant and use a lot of diesel.
I am not saying that the cook's blade guides were what caused the difference, Any blade guide system that keeps the blade rigidly in place and can be pulled in close to the cant would have helped, it's just that the blade guide system that I happened to have that was rigid, adjustable and able to be moved was the cooks system. Either of my other two blade guide systems would have worked if I had made them stiffer and kept up on maintaining and adjusting them.
Joe. My cuts do the exact same thing. They dive. Is it the guides that fixed that issue for you?
Joe
I will say one thing. Once you put down pressure with the guides. The guide needs to be solid. I had a weld break on one of my arms that hold the guide and it was held on by weld slag and not really lose but wobbled just a little bit and it screwed my cut up pretty good. Once I had a bearing disinagrate and my blade just took off in a virtical direction untill it got so tight it couldn't go more with out breaking the blade. Two other times I had nuts come lose in my guide assembly. Mine will cut with out guides but if I have the guides on and with down pressure they have to be right and solid.
I am not dissagreeing that guides are really good, just saying it should cut pretty good with out them. I also get a log every so often that nothing helps on, period. A sharp blade really helps with every thing also. I have had one or two blades that did not do as good as the rest of them right out of the box. I will say this. My blades almost always cut best and longest right out of the box and then slowly degrade and also dull faster inbetween every sharpining I do, not that I use good equiptment for sharpining.
I do agree that moving the guide in and out to the width you are cutting makes a better board. I usually have mine set at about 18/19 inches apart and don't move them unless I get a big log for a cut or two because it is easier to not move them and my cut isw good enough for my uses. I have never seen any mill but mine ever cut a board and so I might be doing really good or really bad but I have no point of referance to really tell. Some day if I get the chance I am going to pay attention to somebody elses mill but so far I haven't ever been near one cutting and have only seen one timberking in person.
Cheers
gww
Ps I have had the hump in the middle of the board you talk about and I get more tension then I used to and don't notice it anymore. I am sure that good guides also help. I also say the guide system leggman made for me is what made my mill really usable.
Josh
If they are only diving and not wondering around. That would most likely be the tires taking out the set or a bad alighment.
Cheers
gww
Ps I can't talk for joe but guides will help alot. You do need the adjustments that go with them for fine tuning though.
Just a curiosity question. How long of a blade do you use? I use 158 inch blade.
Quote from: mazdathumps on February 08, 2017, 10:51:48 PM
Joe. My cuts do the exact same thing. They dive. Is it the guides that fixed that issue for you?
On that particular log yes, But with the same setup I cut hundreds of other logs that cut with just a bit of blade wondering. I was told that the log was red pine and from the bark it looked like it but it was very heavy for it's size much harder but boards that came off it were flexible like noodles. I have never seen another log like it.
With the same guide set up that wouldn't cut that log I could cut any hardwood with blades that were too dull to cut pine anymore and get nice flat cuts out of it.
Since your mill has no guides at all I would suggest either putting your homemade ones back on or wait until you get the cooks guides before driving yourself crazy trying to get it to cut well without guides.
And if you do want to cut without guides throw on a hardwood log(not popple) and see what a difference it makes.
Quote from: gww on February 08, 2017, 11:06:11 PM
Joe
I will say one thing. Once you put down pressure with the guides. The guide needs to be solid.
gww
I agree with that. My first two guide setups weren't stiff enough to do there job all the time. The new set up I have uses all thick wall tubing and is very solid. If I push hard enough on one of the guides to move it the entire frame of the carriage ends up flexing before the blade guide arm does. I had originally planned to put lots of bracing on the guide arms but once I saw that they were stiffer than the rest of the mill I figured it wouldn't do any good without also putting lots of bracing on the carriage frame as well.
Joe
I am betting since your rebuild that you are walking in tall cotton now. It is nice when things work out in a way that all you end up doing is using you stuff rather then always thinking of what you have to do to make it better.
Cheers
gww
Ps Off topic, are your bees still alive? My three mediocor hives are still flying as of 2 days ago.
Stop trying to get good cuts without any guides! It's not going to happen with our little blades. This is only for the big boys with blades like 2 feet wide! Heck, I'd be happy if I only had an inch variable in my cuts without using guides! I stand by what I said a while ago - get some good guides on there and then start fine tuning. Doing what you're doing isn't telling you anything besides the fact that you have your alignment good and that the basic principal of your mill is good. These are two big things, so well done. But we're wasting our time walking you through anything at this point until your new guides are on there. There's no control of your blade, therefore no control of your cuts. Period. :)
hey gww (from one of your earlier posts)
Quote from: gww on February 09, 2017, 10:56:44 AM
Joe
I am betting since your rebuild that you are walking in tall cotton now. It is nice when things work out in a way that all you end up doing is using you stuff rather then always thinking of what you have to do to make it better.
Cheers
gww
Ps Off topic, are your bees still alive? My three mediocor hives are still flying as of 2 days ago.
I don't think any of them are alive. I had planned to treat them for mites once they were brood less in the fall but they had so many mites I HAD to treat them. I gave them 3 treatments, one a week until I got the mite numbers down. We had a warm fall and it looked like all the hives were still alive and active as of the first week of November. I checked on them the last week of November and all but two of the hives were empty with no dead bees left in or around the hives. One was still going strong and a second one was still there but not looking good.
I moved them both home and wrapped them for the winter and since December I haven't seen any activity at all so I hope the stronger hive is still going but I am waiting for a warm day to check. By the end of the month we should be getting a few days where we get above freezing so I will be able to peek in and give them sugar if needed.
I am not sure if it was the huge amount of mites that caused the bees to die/leave or if giving them three treatments in a row killed them. It was kind of a danged if I do, danged if I don't situation. I figured treating them gave them a better chance than not.
Ox
QuoteThese are two big things, so well done. But we're wasting our time walking you through anything at this point until your new guides are on there. There's no control of your blade, therefore no control of your cuts. Period.
hey gww (from one of your earlier posts)
Hey Ox
Too your post, I would say guides will help no matter what. I do think his mill might have some of the same problim mine does with the flex issue and looking for ways to beef that up might give a little more room for not haveing a fight for the rest of the time he is using it.
And he does need to keep his eyes open for abigger motor.
Joe
Sorry about your bees. I am first year and so intend to make the same mistake as most first year bee keepers make. I am doing no mite counts or treating in any way. I did put 15 lbs sugar blocks on my hives and two of my hive were not the recomended winter size for my area but so far so good. Saying that doesn't mean that next year I won't be one of the guys posting I had all six of my hives die. I am too new to it to know what the cause and effect of your actions to your hives were or which might be the right chioce. My view is you make your decision based on what you think you know at the time and then just live with the out come with out worring about it. If you learn more later that convinces you to adjust then you make a decision based off of that. I am giong to let the bees go untreated untill I get a dead out or two and then I am going to autopsy the hive and if I see punctured caps and mite frass, I am going to adjust my management style based on that. I always try to learn everyting the hard way. :)
I hope the two you have at home make it and give you a good start in spring.
Wishing you the best.
gww
Quote from: gww on February 08, 2017, 11:09:43 PM
Josh
If they are only diving and not wondering around. That would most likely be the tires taking out the set or a bad alighment.
Cheers
gww
Ps I can't talk for joe but guides will help alot. You do need the adjustments that go with them for fine tuning though.
Just a curiosity question. How long of a blade do you use? I use 158 inch blade.
I will be looking into the guides soon to buy some... I use a 132" woodmizer blade I think...
Well, I took the financial plunge and ordered my Cook's blade guide systems (2 of them)... $270 later... Once I get them, I'll weld them up and see how she cuts... Hopefully these baby's do the trick...
Why so much... They only list for $60.00 each ?
Quote from: Kbeitz on February 15, 2017, 05:46:53 PM
Why so much... They only list for $60.00 each ?
Quote from: mazdathumps on February 15, 2017, 05:37:08 PM
Well, I took the financial plunge and ordered my Cook's blade guide systems (2 of them)... $270 later... Once I get them, I'll weld them up and see how she cuts... Hopefully these baby's do the trick...
Quote from: Kbeitz on February 15, 2017, 05:46:53 PM
Why so much... They only list for $60.00 each ?
These are the whole system... $130 each, plus S&H...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/cooks.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1487199849)
Josh
I thought they were only about $104 but I guess I was wrong. My opinion is that you did not make a mistake getting the adjustment rod with the bearing. Leggman fabricated those adjustments for the set he made me. He is the man. I do use the adjustments to get the blade compleetly level and you will like it. I was getting ready to pull the trigger on just the same thing. Did you ever look at the pictures of goergia88's mill in the link I posted? You do need to keep your eyes open for a bigger motor and if you still have issues after the guide (and possibly motor), Your possible flex from the small shaft will really be the very last thing that might hold you up.. I am betting it will cut with just the guides added but if it doesn't.......
Some mills come with a seven horse and you will probly be able to cut but bigger makes it funner.
Make your guide mounts really solid.
Good luck and please keep us posted.
gww
Thanks GWW... I'm excited to get these things on and fine tuned... I have a buddy that says he has an engine I can have, we just can't seem to align our schedules for me to go see it and/or take it (if it's worth anything)...
I did see Georgia88's setup... I can probably create something similar If need be...
Josh
Cool. Please keep us posted. I really feel part of your build and may be just as excited as you to see you get good boards.
gww
You did the right thing. I realize that it hurt your wallet just now but in a week or two you'll be thanking God that you got them the way you did. The adjustment that's built in is the cat's meow and will make your life very nice and easy to get perfect blade alignment. Perfect blade alignment, proper blade tension, proper power and speed and proper sharpness/set in the blade will give you the best possible cuts with your mill. These factors won't change with any bandmill. Keep us posted and good luck getting those guides on. You've got a good guy rooting for you in gww as he went through many problems as well and knows well enough about them that he can help you most ways I think. He's very honest and down to earth and that's two things I like about him. Also he's very willing to help if people need it. You picked a good place to start with in his post. Maybe when it's all done you can ask a moderator to move all of your build over to your own personal post for future reference.
Ox
Half the stuff I fixed on mine was with your guidence and support. I also got lots of good common sense on things like that there is a tool chest on this site, what cutting 2/4 4/4 and 8/4 means and also just commen sense of what to cut ahead and how to handle certian things.
Couldn't have done it with out you.
Cheers
gww
That's what this forum is all about, right? See? Now you're helping others. It just keeps getting passed along and it's a great thing. :)
Honestly, without this forum and this post, I'd still be trying to tune in a saw that can't be tuned in as is... I am very appreciative of everyone's knowledge and most of all, sharing that knowledge... I've realized that whether you have a homemade mill, a Norwood, a Woodmizer, or whatever - everyone pitches in the makes it enjoyable and work most efficiently... It's like a family of enthusiasts just trying to be successful as a whole... That is what keeps me going and willing to give it everything I have... Thanks guys...
I will update as I get these guides installed and running... Also, checking into a larger engine this week (may be a FREE one)...
That's what makes this forum so awesome - and I've said it before that it's the best place on the internet. You'll see the more that you read. Usually you can find an answer to your problems by using the search function. Everything from politics to fancy woodworking to building houses to forestry equipment and everything in between is here somewhere. I'd bet a dollar on it! Heck, I think I read just about every post in the sawmill section for pushing a year before I ever posted. Now I feel like a Chatty Cathy doll or something... :D
It's a good thing for this forum cause I don't talk so good in real life. I'm always searching for the next word and stuff...
Josh
QuoteI will update as I get these guides installed and running... Also, checking into a larger engine this week (may be a FREE one)...
Free is best. When most build it is to try and come up with a way to get boards cheeper. Sometimes you have more time then money and if you enjoy it at all, building gets you where you are going. I admit that some do it cause they can do it better then anyone but most just want to make thier own boards.
Ox
I would say that I talk alot in person as well as on the net. I expesially do well if I have had a couple of brewskies. That does not garrentee that the content of my talk is worth listening too. ;D
Cheers
gww
The guides wheels at Linn Lumber are $85 each, that is for wheels only though.
guide bearings alone at Cook's are like $60 I think for just the bearing... I bought the complete assembly(s)... I couldn't find any other brands or companies making them when I shopped around...
Well, guys, I picked up a B&S Industrial 16hp engine for FREE... It's rusted and has been out in the weather for years, but it turns over freely and all vital pieces seem to be in good shape... From what I was told, it was only ran a couple weeks when it was new, then it sat for years... I should be able to start digging into it this week... I'll post some pictures as I clean it up and paint it...
Still waiting on the Cook's blade guides to arrive... I'm less patient than cheap I think (and I'm pretty cheap)... haha
I hope the motor is good. I know 16 horse will be good. I do understand about waiting. I was in the middle of building my shed and was a couple of 6x6 short of getting the poles up and my guide bearing went out. I could find none local and had to order off of amozon or ebay, can't remember which. It took about five days to get it where I was compleetly stopped. They did not cost much but I was dead in the water for a week. I understand impatiance. I keep extras around now.
Hope it all goes well for you.
gww
Did you get the single or twin cylinder ?
Bad news on the engine... It seems to be more work than what it's worth... All the throttle stuff is rusted together (would have to buy all new)... The bolts are rusted holding the cowl on and just ring around, rusted to the nuts behind the cowl... I head bolt is twisted off and even after heating it with a torch, still won't budge... The exhaust is all but welded to the cast head and the whole magneto system, etc is rusted up... It would take $200 just to get it functional, still not knowing if it would run or not... I'm gonna scrap it or give it away...
The good news is, I just ordered a brand new china made 18hp Duromax single cyl. small engine online for $320... Electric start and all, can't beat it... Even used engines run in that range, so I will give it a shot...
Now, I sit and wait on the engine and guides... ::)
Josh
That is the engine I have. My electric start didn't work and so I pull start. They would have sent me an electric start but I didn't feel like messing with it cause it has the easy start pull start and it pulls easy. Over all so far so good with it. It is better then the nine horse I started with though the nine wasn't that bad.
Good luck
gww
If it's the single cylinder it's worth keeping. Twins are a dime a dozen.
Single cylinder are hard to find and aren't made anymore.
Kbeitz, it's the single cylinder one... Cast iron bore - it's a big heavy thing... Right now, nothing more than a paper weight...
GWW, good to hear about the engine - I usually wounder about the knock-off brands, but I'm sure I'll be happy too...
At one time I was heavy into collection of older gas engines.
I had over 3000 engines in my collection. (not a typo)
Out of all my engines I think the 16hp and 14hp Hoz
engines was some of the best engines ever made.
This is a new old stock 16hp. Sure wish you was not
so far away. I would buy your old engine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/77__or_78__rt16.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1487676954)
wow. that's cool man... I did do a little research after you mentioned how good of an engine it was and I see that I could probably piece it out and almost pay for the new engine... I have lots of working parts, its just the rusted up ones would all have to be replaced... Any external springs have rusted together and/or fallen apart... The choke adjustment and throttle cable connection are both rusted solid... I have no idea if the carb works... Air filter is trash... It's a shame because it looks well built...
The biggest problem I ran into is the screws and clips holding the front cowl on are rusted together and the clips broke, so it's just the bolt and nut spinning together and no way to get in there to stop the nut, therefore i can't remove the cowl to get to all the wiring and magneto... It also looks like maybe a rat built a nest inside the cowl... It's more work and money than I want to mess with right now...
Just for a ballpark figure, if I were to get it running, how much would one of these be worth??
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170220_1409035B15D_28576x102429.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1487699567)
This is the picture of mine, I have the air filter assembly, it's just not on for the picture... I pulled the head and the valves and cylinder walls look fine and seem to be working when I spin it over...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170221_1059345B15D_281024x57629.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1487699544)
Here is my cant hook I made while waiting on my engine and guides... all of it was free from scraps I had around the shed...
You can cut off the bolts with a cut off wheel. You can get good
parts off E-bay. If you sell it i would part it out on E-bay.
I really think that you would very very happy with it if you
fixed it up. My engine can sit for months and starts with the
rope first pull. i'm very surprised how easy it starts with a rope.
It has a starter on it that was never used or hooked up.
If you wasn't so far away I would be bugging you for that engine.
Kbeitz, all the wiring would have to be replaced along with anything that could rust (lol pretty much everything external that moves)... I will probably end up selling it to someone who has an interest in restoring it or part it out on ebay... Still debating...
Good news:
Blade guide assemblies made it in excellent shape and ready to be welded on..... after I build the brackets for them - one solid and the other adjustable...
Also got the engine in today while at work...
I've taken this time waiting on the guides and engine to rebuild a bit of the mill... I've pulled all the parts off. Cut, grinded, welded, replaced, moved, replaced bearings, and painted again... Still got some work to do because a couple parts needed improvement from the beginning and I have to tackle this while I'm at it... It will be a few days or week before I get everything back in working order and new parts on... I figure, I've got the basics down NOW, so now I can fix all the "iffy" things I had to guess about from the beginning... I'm actually excited in making it ALL right and functional...
I know your all worried about knocking off alignments and all that stuff, but don't sweat, I made all that stuff adjustable on the spot at any point, now or later or 10 years from now... The only future improvement would be upsizing my axle, bearings, hubs, and wheels (but I think they are manageable currently)...
Whew, lots going on over here... Any suggestions while i'm cut, chop, rebuilding??
Josh
QuoteWhew, lots going on over here... Any suggestions while i'm cut, chop, rebuilding??
Yes, take a couple of pictures and share them, and cut some strait boards and bragg about doing so.
Cheers
gww
My suggestion would be to put an anti-seize on every single nut and bolt combination on your mill. This will ensure easier removal for future reference. Plain old grease works too. We used both on the farm every single time we had to take anything apart. It sure made things easier for the future.
GWW, you know, I try to do this, but always seem to fail to get the most important pictures or videos because I'm so involved in what i'm doing at the time... I will promise to do the best I can... Right now there isn't much to take pictures of - just some metal and holes drilled in it... I'm hoping to make everything removable/replaceable this time around as compared to just welding everything... Also, got the engine unpacked today and I think it will do it's job... The wiring diagram is worthless... Not sure what wires go where, but I'll figure it out and also stripped the solenoid threads with very little pressure but got that ironed out now...
OX, funny you say that about greasing, etc... I was just sitting here at work drawing up some notes with grease fittings and more solid bushings with grease fittings for my tensioner and alignment threaded rods... I'm re-drawing/redesigning the tensioner/alignment threaded rod seats also and adding grease fittings to those... Also, as stated before, I replaced a couple pillow block bearings with new ones... These are all grease able too... That's pretty much all the moving parts on this thing...
I'm still at the drawing board with the adjustable side of the blade guides... I've seen just a few other mills and the basic idea is the same, but I'm not a fabricator... My welds usually don't come out perfectly square, so I may have to actually take my time on these... The closer I weld them to square, the less adjustments on the guides I'll have to make...
Josh
My guides are pretty level for the blade staying at the measurement of board cutting when moving them but they are not so good that the blade rides on them exactly the same. When I cut a really wide log my blade rides probly close to a half inch forward on the guide but luckily it still gives enough support to keep the blade level during the cut and I tried my best.
Good luck
gww
Well, maybe I'll be better off than I'm thinking I'll be. I'm not a real comfortable welder being self-taught sometimes my weld will draw the steel one way or the other and I'm learning, but doesn't change the fact that I'm self-taught. Lol I'll get as close as possible and fine tune from there I guess
Tack tack tack... Then weld
Learn to use the weld to pull what your welding the way you
want it to go.
Exactly. For square welding, you need to keep it square first. Tacking does this. Tack on one side, then the other. What little it moved will be cancelled out by moving to the opposite side/end. That massive amount of heat concentrated in a little tiny area does weird stuff sometimes. For example, if I had a 12" piece that I needed to weld alongside/parallel to another identical piece I would like to see 6 tack welds before I continued. This is just preference and maybe a little overdone, but my mill is also built square!
I appreciate all the tips on welding... I've been through about 6 rolls of fluxcore wire so far since I bought the thing... I feel comfortable with it, but then realize things moved a hair by the end... I'll try more tacks before running my bead...
You can also use line welding to bend metal to where you want it.
If you run a line of weld across the top of a steel plate like in the
drawing the ends will bow up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/weld_bend.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488490601)
Aghhh. That bending must be what happened with my steel plate for my adjustment/tensioner. It had a slight curve to it when I added my third pillow block bearing... I took a sledge hammer to the plate until my axle slid through all three bearings with ease. Water under the bridge, but at least now it's explained. Lol
That's also a way to straighten a warped frame (what K said). I used heat on mine. But beware - the first time it moves alot, second time maybe half that, then third time half again. Doesn't move much the 4th or 5th time so ya better get it right the first time or two. Hopefully you never have to straighten anything like that...
I sure hope I don't have to... haha
From a previous post of mine...
Quote from: mazdathumps on February 28, 2017, 07:16:33 PM
Also got the engine in today while at work... I've taken this time waiting on the guides and engine to rebuild a bit of the mill... I've pulled all the parts off. Cut, grinded, welded, replaced, moved, replaced bearings, and painted again... Still got some work to do because a couple parts needed improvement from the beginning and I have to tackle this while I'm at it... It will be a few days or week before I get everything back in working order and new parts on... I figure, I've got the basics down NOW, so now I can fix all the "iffy" things I had to guess about from the beginning... I'm actually excited in making it ALL right and functional...
I forgot to add (for information purposes) that when I flipped the frame a while back, it placed my axles and all on top of the frame... While measuring for the blade guide construction, I realized that I didn't even have 6 inches of clearance between the blade and frame, so I had to cut and weld the alignment/tension stuff back to the bottom and re-drill and move the drive wheel to the bottom to get as much clearance as possible... I think it put me around 10 inches from blade to frame now... Just wanted to include this for future reference or to help someone else who might thumb through this post for help...
Josh
Since my guides have the bar they slide on go all the way across the front of the mill, My max cut depth is right around 7 and 3/4 inch. I lost maby an inch in the way I installed them. You will be happy for as much cut depth as you can get. A lot of work for what you did but it will be better. I only find two times that my cut dept might hurt me. One is if I miss judge the first cut tapper of the log and the second is when I try to quarter saw boards. I quarter saw by taking a slab as deep as I can cut it and turn the slab up on its side to get quarter sawn boards. My target board is usually 8 inch wide and I can't quite get 8 inch with my cut depth. The good thing is for what I do with the boards what I can get is just close enough to 8 inches to work.
You did a lot of work but I think you will be happy you did.
gww
Ps
I do very little quarter sawing cause it is hard to get logs big enough to get 8 inch boards and the logs that big are bigger then my equiptment to move them. I have got it done a couple of times though and it is nice to be able too.
I think I'll be glad I redid all this when it's done... I just want it cutting right and if it takes a rebuild, then that's what it takes. I'm not scared to work a little and I tend to do things the best I can, so I'm sure it will all be worth it once I'm cutting perfect boards. Ive never cut quarter sawn boards, so if i get a big enough tree i might try it
Before I came to the conclusion that you whittle down a log to become the beam, I thought I needed the ability to cut a very thick cut/slab. So, I made my depth of throat about 21" :o I did this by hanging car hubs below the lower support of my saw head.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Bandsaw_after_1st_cut.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1436587277)
The box that makes up the saw head is 2"x2"x.120"? tube that was already made up into 4'x8' frames. With minimal cutting, I made it into a 2'x2'x8' box. The car hub are hung below and braced. The blade adjustment is a little cludgey and would do it different if I did it again today.
Very nice. That's deep. I have the ability to add spacers between my pillow block bearings and frame, so if I ever decided that this wasn't deep enough, I could go back and change it by just adding equal size spacers on each side. Most of the trees around my area are not very big. I'm happy to get an 18" log and that's big for around here. A hundred years ago, my property was at the bottom of the Suwannee river, so most of the woods around me are young relatively speaking...
Making progress...
This is the frame after mounting the axles on the bottom... Tensioner/alignment setup back on and working also... I had to move the idle side right about 3/4" to keep the pulley from rubbing on the frame...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170305_170351_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488757712)
This is with the motor mount plate added... 1/4" steel plate over a welded 1x1 tube base... It held me on top of it, so it should hold my engine... I had to use a free float design due to the blade guide mounts which I have not built yet that will run about 1 inch from the back of the front frame... That will probably be this week...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170305_173711_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488757715)
This is with the motor mounted to check measurements and belt alignment and all... It is perfect!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170305_174518_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488757723)
Here is a bottom view of the motor mount... It looks simple, but it is solid...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170305_174640_28450x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488758223)
Another view from the front...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170305_174546_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488757743)
These are just mock up pictures to check all my measurements... I think I will be very happy with this new and improved rebuild... With the motor mount finished, I should be working on the blade guides and belt tensioner this week... After that, I can button it all up, set my blade guides, and hopefully cut some good boards... GWW, I will be sure to level my blade front to back... I've already started on a homemade leveler like Cooks sells... ;D
Josh
Hey, thanks for the pictures and update. I believe that the level blade will pay dividends and if your homemade blade checker make it quicker, then that might be the first thing you check rather then the last like me cause it is too hard. I cut a tiny bit of wave at knots today but eventully tightend my drive belt and a few other adjustments, took the dremal and ground on the blade and am now back on track. It only took me a week to cut my last log and I still haven't did the part I hate worst. Stickering the last 12 boards.
I bet you like what the motor does for your cut, looks nice and if it is installed as you say "perfect", Hey, perfect is good.
I am thinking you about have it wipped now so don't forget us when you cut a board. You might have so much fun that you forget to bragg about it. Hope not cause I would love an update.
Good luck
gww
I'll keep the pictures coming... lol
I had so many people doubting me from the beginning of this build and said they didn't think I'd make it happen or I'd end up cutting my arm off... It's nice to have you guys cheering me on... Keeps me motivated... And even the 5hp wavy cuts, people were impressed... I can't wait until the whole thing is rebuilt and cuttin' lumber...
With everyone watching it kinda makes you think that you gotta
get it done....
Heck, I'm ready to be done with it, but I also want it done right, so that takes time sometimes. Haha. I work 40+ hours a week and have a family to keep up with... It consumes my free time, that's for sure, but it will be nice to cut nice lumber and boatds.
I've learned that the haters that keep knocking what you're doing are usually petty and jealous and wish they could do what you're doing. They'll be the ones wanting free milling and welding in the future, too. I hate people like this. Don't let them bother you if you can help it. Keep plugging along - you'll be making sawdust and working harder than ever and be wondering what was i thinking? lol
Quote from ox
Quoteyou'll be making sawdust and working harder than ever and be wondering what was i thinking?
Aint that the truth.
Cheers
gww
I don't let it bother me, but you're right. It will be the same people wanting something down the road...
Today, I've been making the slide rail for my blade guides. Using 2x2x0.25 for the slider and 1.5x1.5x0.125 for the rail... After what seems like endless hours of grinding the tube to slide freely in the other tube, I've got most of it sliding smoothly... One more peice to cut and grind away at then I can get to welding it onto the mill...
After that's done, I have the belt tensioner to tackle. It has to squeeze in somewhere... Not quite sure where yet... lol
Josh
I keep a about a 2 lbs hammer on the side of my mill at all times. When I move my guides, rather then trying to push it sideways and almost having to get on my knees to do it, I just losen the jack bolt and then tap tap tap untill it is where I want it.
Cheers
gww
GWW, I can appreciate the hammer adjustment you have going on there, but I tend to break things if I don't make them work well from the beginning... haha... I've spent a few sleepless nights figuring out these rails and guide mounts and all, I better keep on with it... Below is my progress today... getting closer to cutting some wood...
Here's the raw welds... These are t-nuts welded over the holes in the tubing... This is both of them side by side...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/untitled3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488846486)
This is where the slide rail will be welded in... Still have to cut my groove in it and shave a little off the whole rail so the 2" tubing will slide freely back and forth...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/untitled4.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488846486)
This is some square tube I welded together... It is a perfect 90 degree joint... Thanks to ya'lls welding tips - tacked all four corners, then went back and filled in the gaps... Ground away the bumps and here we are...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/untitled2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488846485)
Painted up and fancy... :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/untitled.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488846485)
Thanks for the pictures, keep trucking.
gww
I appreciate seeing nice fabricating skills. It takes a long time to make things look nice. Your 90° looks very good. Are you using a flapwheel on a grinder? It's one of my favorite tools of all time cause it only takes off the high spots and makes you look like a durn pro. :D
The smooth surface was done with a flap wheel on angle grinder. One of my "go to" tools also. For welds I use a Hobart 125 mig, Flux core wire. I haven't bought the gas kit for it yet. My first welder and I'm self taught. Some days, I'm pretty satisfied with my welds. Clean metal makes all the difference and doing loops I've learned. Heat and wire speed come with experience. The tack stuff yall showed me is something I wasn't told about over the years, so I've had some stuff pull this way or that way on me. I feel my stuff is strong, just still working on keeping it straight/aligned, and lastly making it pretty. I have zero experience with sheet metal. Usually I bend it, drill it, and rivet it when possible.
Nothing I build will ever be pretty. I like looking at stuff that those that go the extra step build.
Cheers
gww
For myself, I rely on the old dirty harry movie monolog: "A mans got to know his limmitations :).
gww - I also have a fond appreciation of gorilla welds too - big strong and ugly.
Ox
Quotegww - I also have a fond appreciation of gorilla welds too - big strong and ugly.
smiley_thumbsup
gww
I aim for solid nice welds, but I often end up grinding off more than I welded. Haha
By the way, got the blade guides welded up and waiting on them to cool down for paint... Lots of numbers and adding and subtracting to get them just right (tried to set the brackets up to a neutral position, so there will be less extreme adjustments on the guides themselves. This will give me room to wiggle with fine tuning)... Probably not so hard the next time around, but I checked and triple checked my numbers.
Josh
Quotebut I checked and triple checked my numbers
I do that all the time and then still measure and inch off when doing wood work :D.
Sounds like you are really getting close. I can't wait to hear how you feel about the differrance when you use it the first time. I am thinking it will be very noticable and nice.
Good luck
gww
It's going to be ba, ba, ba bad, bad to the bone.
Excited is the word for it... It has to be better than what I had before. I've fixed too much for it not to be... haha
I have pictures along the way too. I'll try to post some today again.
Here's the progress going on today... They are painted and drying now, so I think i'll go grab some food...
Tacked on the corners...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170307_095032_28450x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488906063)
Welded up solid...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170307_101120_28450x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488906037)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170307_101127_28450x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488906042)
Fully assembled...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170307_101801_28480x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488906047)
One thing I have learned over the years is to weld as hot as you
can without burning a hole. This will give you the best penetration
and a very strong weld. sometimes you need to zig zag to stay longer
on the heaviest of the two metals to be welded.
I agree on the heat. I usually weld on my highest setting and either speed up or stay slow. Just before burning through. I use just enough wire to keep a small puddle...
More updates for the day...(with pictures) 8)
Fresh after welding the rail in... Notice the t-bolts that hold the tubing from sliding around...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170307_135702_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488930335)
Here you can really see the depth I'm getting now... I think it's 10.25 inches from blade to frame... Blade guides are solid...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170307_135712_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488930335)
Same thing from the back...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170307_135852_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488930347)
Engine mounted and blade guides on... Next is belt tensioner...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170307_164807_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488930355)
She's getting closer. I can see home plate... I might be cutting wood tomorrow or the next day... Also, I used a straight piece of aluminum flat bar I had and laid it on the blade and over the gullet. With a level stretched between my log bunks, I took another aluminum ruler and measured from the level to the bar as far forward as I could and as far backwards as I could and adjusted until they were within about 1/64" difference (as close as I could get)... Did this several times to each blade guide trying to true it up the best I could... Thanks, GWW for mentioning this... I was pretty bad off even though I thought I was good (even up to a half inch off at first)...
It's hard to explain, but here is a video from Cooks MFG about what I did... https://youtu.be/qkwW2iX4Wqw
Looking really good. What kind of paint are you using ?
Don't forget to measure across a straight tooth. A tooth that's up or down might give you a bad or wrong measurement. It looks good, you're almost there! a 1/64" will be good enough. Mine's within 1/32" and it's good enough.
Ox, I set my bar up between the teeth in the gullet...
Kbeitz, Thanks and the paint is spray paint from walmart... Rust-oleum Satin eden color
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170307_191005_28270x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488932195)
Josh
The effort to get your blade parelel will be worth it, I think.
I think you about have it done. The biggest hurtful issue that is possible to be left is the tension. On one web site they have a thing called the flutter test that is supposed to help with blade life by letting you set tension with out have too much and putting extra pressure on your blade. I admit that I do not use it.
It goes like this. You put the tension on your blade like you are now and then you losen tention untill you see blade flutter and then you tighten a little past where the blade flutter stops.
I have flex and just tighten to where when I speed my motor to full throttle and it makes my mill flex enough that the blade starts to ride forward on my tire and then I back it off till the blade is pretty well riding the center hump on my tire.
I only mention the flutter test because you had mentioned breaking a shaft once. So in my mind, even if you can now run the tension real high, if the flutter test shows you do not have to, then why put extra strain on your mill. Just a thought. If I did the flutter test, I would be looking for the flutter between the guides cause my mill tires are not close to ballanced or round or really on hubs made for them. I have four washers on my hub bolts to make the tires ride furthur out so everything fits. So I have lots of bounce, still get good boards though.
Just something for you to think about if you feel like it.
Good luck and looking good.
gww
GWW, I follow you... I tend to tighten my blade until it tries to slip off the front of the wheels, then back off a little... The tension between my guides is pretty dang tight. A rubber mallet bounces all around on it when I drop it from about 4 inches... Gut feeling, It feels tight enough, but the top of the blade (top/slack side) has a little flutter in it, but I can't get rid of that no matter what I do...
I'm not sure what science is behind the blade tension and how to determine tight from loose... Guess I need to do some research on that...
Got a question for everyone kind of off subject... My 14" metal chop saw is like running on half power or less under a load and it just started doing it... Is this the motor going bad or just the brushes?? I've never dealt with brushes before, so not familiar with how they act up...
Josh
I have found most times that when the brushes go, my motor is not too far behind. Lots of times the little copper bars on the stator that the brushes ride on start coming lose and eating the brushes. Brushes are pretty cheap I think and I did get about 6 more months out of an angle grider by using the brushes from a differrent one that I knew had a bad bearing.
You may get a little more use out of it and brushes are really easy to change.
If you have a caliper, you can measure blade tension by blade strech. I can be looked up with a search on the internet.
You sound like it is not going to matter cause like me, you get what you get and as long as it works, oh well.
Do you have a dremal? Your blade will not go through very many logs with out a touch up to the tips. I just got a new set of blades rather then the cheapest ones that cook sells. The bad part is they had to be ordered by the 20 rather then ten at a time and are $1.30 per blade higher then the cheep ones. I believe in the end that I like them enough better that the extra for them was worth it. They seem to fit the size dremal wheel that I can find locally. I got the super sharp silver. I am not pushing you to buy them but just saying. You are going to need blades and unless you have a resharp and in my view even if you do. You are going to have to freshen or change often.
It takes very little touch up to get them to cut really well but also does not last long. Just my view.
I am not trying to over load you but just reconizing that you are so close and that will be the next big money draw.
Cheers
gww
I bet it does not fail on the tension being enough, but if it does a bar in front of your wheels will fix it. However, I think it is going to cut like butter as it is.
I bought this off E=bay to set my tension.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Band_Saw_Blade_Tensioning_Gauge__4~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1488951745)
Maybe it's time for a new chop saw... haha
ANYWAYS, I HAVE FINALLY FINISHED THE REBUILD...
This saw with a fresh blade cuts very fine, straight, and fast... I couldn't be happier with it... That 18 horse engine never misses a beat and I cut through that pine at like 5 inches a second max... I'm realizing now that the axles probably broke due to the stress that the bad cuts were causing... I had no issues today cutting...
At first, i thought i grabbed my new blade and my cuts were kind of wobbly still, but then I hit a hidden gem (old close line cable) buried in the wood and ruined that blade anyways... Went for another blade and realized it was not the new one... With the new blade on there, I'm buzzing through my wood with little effort... Straight all day long too...
I honestly could not have done it without guys like ya'll talking me through it and recommending things... The Cooks complete guides are a god-send and that 18 horse engine is plenty of power... My blade tensioner works well and easy to use... I'm all around happy with this sawmill... I don't know where to start... Thanks to you all for the advise and inspiration along the rebuild... It's all paid off now
Pictures to come... 8)
I'm thinking over the next few weeks or months, I may write up a guide on where to start and key points on building a homemade sawmill... I've considered drawing up the plans for my mill in AutoCad for someone starting with little to no info on sawmills... OR maybe i'm just so excited it's working i'm talking non-sense... Who knows, either way, it's working and a pretty solid build now... Thanks again everyone
josh
You sound excited, and I am excited that we did not run you down too many money eating rabit holes. In the end except for the guides and motor, it was just really hard work on your part.
Very neat.
Now you will find that you are going to need to play with sharpening your blade now and then. I do mine while it is on the mill. A couple of logs and you are going to still be cutting fair and then you are going to take a dremal or I even started just barily grinding behind the points with a angle grinder. Believe me when I say really quick and barily touching the blade for a portion of a second. Then you are going to make another cut and say, wow, I can't believe this made so much differrence, it didn't seem that bad.
That is my experiance anyway. If you intend to use a resharp sevice, you may not want to touch the blade on your own because they reject blades that you change the cut angle on.
Hey man, it sound like you have really made a differrance and are happy and so then am I.
Cheers
gww
8) smiley_clapping smiley_blue_bounce smiley_bouncing_pinky Glad it's working and glad you're happy. This is what the forum is all about!
hey gww - you've now got two good working, homemade mills on your thread!
Hey Ox
Quotehey gww - you've now got two good working, homemade mills on your thread!
I would never say my saw mill is good working just that it is working good for me.
Remember when I said that nobody could borrow my mill cause I put so many bugs in it that nobody but me would know how to use it :).
At least josh's mill didn't take 30 pages to work :D.
Sounds like josh would not mind using his experiance to try and help others.
Cheers
gww
That's just it and it's awesome. We're getting more and more homebuilders on here and it only strengthens the help we can give somebody. One more just came on board. We'll likely not hear much from him the next few days - he'll be busy milling! :laugh:
You helped him a great deal. Makes you feel good to be able to do that, don't it?
Ox
QuoteYou helped him a great deal.
Did I? Every single thing he did to his mill was advice that you guys gave me to fix mine. Who really did the helping?
I see some of the other mills. I try to learn from those builders, not teach them cause most everyone is above my pay grade.
Hope you and your family are doing well up on Ox's mountain.
Cheers
gww
As for who helped the most??... There's really no way to measure the ideas and knowledge of each of you who helped... I'm just grateful for the help and openness in helping... I also have to give credit to Cooks saw mfg. on YouTube... They freely give info if you ever have the time to thumb through those videos...
When I cut a 1/4" slab of pine today, I knew I had succeeded... 8)
GWW, i'm up for trying to sharpen my blades... I already sharpen my drill bits at home, even the cheap ones... I know what you mean about a freshly sharpened blade - just like with drill bits...
I have some pictures, but I want some better ones in the daylight, so tomorrow i'll snap a few and post them...
Once again, Thank You everyone who helped!
Take lots of close up pictures of your guides and there adjustments.
I'm hoping to get lots of pictures and a video or 2 for youtube. The guides adjust in x,y,and z directions (side to side angle, top to bottom angle, front to back, and up and down onto/off the blade)... I can also fine tune adjust my entire frame if my blade guides are set but not parallel to the bunk. I'll get pictures of both adjustments.
Josh
Make sure you post the vidio or a link to it here. I would love to watch.
Cheers
gww
Yes sir, I plan to... I'm anxious to cut tomorrow and take some videos...
I started out using a dremel to sharpen my blades. I think it worked
really good for a cheap way to do it. I ordered 3/8" dremel bit off e-bay.
If you buy 50-100 a a time you can get them real cheap. I now have a
home made sharpener made from a chop saw. It's faster. I also made a
home made blade setter. The list of builds just keeps on going. I'm happy
you got your saw up and running the way you want it. I bet it will change
your life.
Thanks. I might give it a few weeks, but will probably end up with a jig for sharpening. I don't stop making things. I get bored easily, so I keep the wheels turning. Haha
I was excited to cut some wood today and decided to cut out the part of the red oak log that had the metal in it... Well, apparently, it was in another place in the tree too... My last sharp blade is no longer sharp :'( ... I ordered some and am going to try and sharpen one of mine to see if I can use it until my new blades make it... So close to milling up lots of wood, then this... haha oh well, life goes on...
Good news is I got a video first thing this morning of a walk around on my mill... It's like 12 and a half minutes long and my internet is pretty slow, so this upload might take a while, but I'll post the link once it's up...
Sounds good
gww
Here's the walk around video... I will probably upload the high Def video later...
https://youtu.be/xbRF-0qxaBY
Quote from: mazdathumps on March 09, 2017, 02:04:40 PM
Here's the walk around video... I will probably upload the high Def video later...
https://youtu.be/xbRF-0qxaBY
With that cable lift system you really should have some hooks on your carriage that go under your rails so the only way the carriage can come off is to run it off the ends of the rails. I would also then put a bump stop at each end of your rails so you can't accidentally run it off.
On my mill the cable that holds the head up broke in the middle of the cut. That caused all the weight of the head to go onto the blade at the front and the entire carriage tipped backwards, With the engine and blade still spinning. When it tipped over it smashed up the engine and sent shrapnel flying everywhere. It was quite dangerous.
Josh
Couple of things.
I catch fluff for never putting gaurds on my mill. I Know you did have gaurds before. I think on your belt tensioner that you need to put a 90 degree piece on it and bring it to the back of the mill and away from the wheel, blade and pully. Maby put a peice for it to slip under so it hold the tension on you belt also.
One other suggestion for your log stops (the two inch pipe that move up and down and keep your log on the bed) My suggestion is to cut some board to 2x2 and try them rather then using the metal like you have now. It will not be as strong but might be strong enough. I started with metal also but then switched to wood. I have forgot to lower them enough and when that happens, my blade just cuts them shorter but I don't ruin a blade this way.
Just a thought.
I do the jam nut type thing on pipe also and I just put points on the end of my log dogs. Your screws would probly work just as well. I keep a hammer on my mill at all times and what I have found is that it is really quick to just put the end (where my point is) against the log and just hit it with the hammer at the bottom near where it slides and it will jam tight and when you want to losen, you just hit it on the bottom the other way and it comes lose.
I really liked your vidio and do not mention the stuff above in a critical manner but more in the hopes that the advice will speed up your cutting and make it more pleasurable.
You will think of a hundred more ways to speed up as you cut more.
I can't wait to see a vid of you cutting.
You should be very proud of being able to do things like making your own good lumber. You impress me at how fast you did all this and made all the changes you did.
Thanks for the vidio.
Cheers
gww
Ps to joes point, I don't have hold down hooks on my carage but I one thousand percent agree that you need traval stops at both ends of your track.
A lot of innovative ideas on there. You should put a blade guard on it. By looking at your blade it looks like you really should have a lube system on it. With the cooks set up it is really easy. On the steel plate on the side of the blade guide I made another plate and pinched a thick piece of felt from a boot liner between the two plates so that it rubs on the blade and also pinched the lube line in between the plates as well.
One more thing. I would think about putting a guard around your belt so you can't accidentally put your hand in there when you are pushing on the mill.
I think the mill is great I just am trying to point out a few things that I learned the hard way, my criticisms are not intended to be mean.
I am not a safe guy but do agree on the stuff that turns back where you are most of the time that little plates to cover anything turning is probly good. I knew a giant of a guy that got strangled to death on a piece of farm equipment because his shirt got rapped around a shaft.
I used lube in the very beginning but almost never use it now. Most of what I cut is hard woods and so I don't know if that makes a differrence or not. I do keep a squirt bottle of soapy water hanging on the handles where I push my mill at and might sometimes shoot a stream down on the blade but mostly just cut dry.
It is nice to have some of that stuff and what I started with was a gass tank off of a riding mower but for all I know it has frozen and busted cause I quit trying to use it after the first few blades.
I may not have given it a fair chance to see if it really helped because I got by so good with out it. It might help a lot and I just don't know it.
Cheers
gww
Ps Am I seeing it wrong or is there and extra piece of angle iron on the end of your track painted red as a stop? I did read on the forum of a guy that got a bunch of stitches cause he didn't have a stop and pulled his cairage off the mill backwards onto hisself and a friend.
Three other things that I use around my mill that really help me alot is a long board that I can use leverage of jamming the end in the ground and the side against the log to slide the log around.
Some wedges of differrent sizes that I can put on my log bunks under the logs to keep the log from turning while I push around on it or am turning it to get to 90 degree angle for my second cut. This also helps me put the logs with a knot sticking out somewhere other then right against my log stops when I need more room on one side or the other and lets me turn the log with out bending the weaker log stops that I use.
Lastly, I keep a two foot level so it is easy to get the second cut a true 90 degrees.
I bet when you posted your vidio, you were not expecting a bombardiment of suggestions were you? :)
Cheers
gww
I'm grateful for all the suggestions... I plan to read back through them and discuss them later tonight while at work. Lol
Alright guys, first of all THANK YOU for the comments... I take nothing negatively, it's constructive as far as I'm concerned...
To address the #1 concern, the Carriage Stops... They are there, maybe the video and pictures are hard to see them... Below is a picture of them... They work well and as heavy as my carriage is, it doesn't attempt to move past them... That being said, the carriage weighs A LOT, so even shaking it back and forth I can't even get one single wheel off the rail (and that's trying to make it come off)... So, as for the j-hooks, I don't feel they are necessary with the weigh i'm pushing around...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/carriage_stopsJ.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489111624)
As for the belt tensioner... It was the last thing I designed and built and was kind of half finished just to see if it would work and it works great, so I'm sure there will be some future visits with that... For now, I zip tie it down before I start the engine, so I don't have to reach in there while everything is going...
GWW, I love the idea of using wood log stops... That will probably happen soon... I also, have a rubber mallet on my saw to set the log dogs into the wood... The screw is just to get a little extra pressure when needed... I have a tank bar (I think they call it) for moving the log around and 2 can't hooks and my tractor if it gets to be too much by hand... The tank bar is a solid cast steel bar about 6 feet long and weighs about 15 pounds... I can debark, move, hold, bust, whatever I need to with it... I do like the idea of wedges and had plans to make some wood shingles in the future using wedges to cut the angles... As for wedging the wood into place, I have the tank bar and tractor to hold things still long enough for the log dogs to be implemented... As for how much work gets done in a short period of time - yeah, I'm a little obsessive with projects... I go go go until it's done usually - don't eat, don't sleep until I hit a good productive stopping point, then I can't sleep well until it's done, so I tend to get stuff knocked out pretty quickly... ::)
OK... That answers all but one concern of Joe's... The lube system... My question (out of ignorance) is what is the purpose of the lube and what change does it make in the cut?
Below are some pictures of some measurements I took today...
I removed the extra chunk of wood that was under each log bunk... Originally they were there because my cables were too short to let the blade down that far, so I raised the bunk... Now I can bottom out my frame which leads me to think I will add bolts about a half inch under my lowest cut and about 1/2 short of my highest cut... Kind of like a limit to how far the frame will travel...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/bedremovesJ.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489111624)
Here are my measurements as of today...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/maxmeasurementsJ.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489111625)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/mincutJ.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489111625)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/maxcutJ.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489111624)
Hope I didn't forget anybody's constructive concerns... ;D
As for the dull blades, I found a local guy in town that I used to buy wood from that sharpens them for $8... I gave him one for now to see how he does with it and I have 5 new ones ordered... If his sharpened ones cuts well, then I will give him the other 3 I have to sharpen...
Josh
I agree with the putting a stop at about the one inch mark. I cut my one bys at between 1/8 to 1/16 less then an inch. I don't suggest you do that. I did it cause I wanted to use unfinnished boards for building and be close to mixing with bought boards if needed. What I have found it that using a thickness planer that I can not always get both side compleetly planed on my boards. I can on about 60 percent of them but if they have any bow at all, my cut thickness does not give enough board to clean all of them up. I still like it cause I am not building furnature but you may want it at least an inch to an inch and an eight.
So I would set my stop where my last board was at the thickness that I want to cut normal. Then when you get to a sacrafice board, there will be no thinking of which one to sacrafice.
You still could put plating over your shafts that come back to where you are working so lose cloth can't touch it by accident.
I do the same on my belt tension. My blade turns when I start the mill and I kill it after every cut. I will never change but you will have to if you ever do decide to use your electric start. I do not find it hard to just do it like you do it and believe I will never change. The big wheel they put on the motor for easy pull has made it easy enough that it does not bother me.
Is the only reason that your mill will not raise higher due to the adjusment turnbows that you have hooked to you cables. It does not look like your motor is hitting anything just that you are running out of cable. If this is the case, I would get rid of the adjustment and have the higher lift. You have a really good cut depth from the blade up and you may get a big log some day that you want to quarter saw and when possible you will want to cut a giant slab about down to the pith and turn it up on its side. I think that 17 inches could be better if it can be done with out too much extra. So if it is just a cable restriction, I would get rid of the adjustment for the extra inches. If it is the motor hitting, I would use it like it is.
I really like your presentation with all the explination additions writen on the pictures. Very nice.
I can't wait to see you cutting.
The above are just what my brain comes up with, It doesn't mean I am right in any way. I really like what you have done.
Cheers
gww
Ps You have a tank bar, we used to call them dinomite bars, I think if you just got a long peice of wood maby a little thicker then hand railing on stairsteps, you are going to be much happier using it due to the light weight. Everything adds up and I used a full two by four and found that did not fit the hand and was too heavy. Not bossing you around, just throwing ideals. You will also find anytime you can move the log around with out getting on the tractor, you will be miles ahead. The tractor sure helps with the giant logs though.
The reason for the lube is to keep the pitch and sawdust build up off your blade. If it builds up enough it will start to heat your blade a bit and will cause the blade to want to wander. But with a tire mill it is possible to flood the blade with too much lube and cause the blade to come of the wheels. That is why wiping it on in my opinion is a better way to do it than to drip or spray it on. It also allows you to use a lot less. I use diesel for lube on my mill.
Joe, does the diesel make a mess on the wood or the mill?
GWW, the air cleaner cover hits the top of the frame. I have plenty of cable, I bought 50 feet of it. Around here logs don't get very big. The biggest pine I'll get my hands on is about 20 inch diameter or less. Anything bigger and someone will buy them besides me. I get free logs. Red Oak is about the biggest local tree that wouldn't fit into this mill. We don't have very large trees like what's up north. Also, most of my local woods have scrub oak, live oak, and water oak. Really not good for much because they split on you unless you slow dry them.
Josh
Here is a simple add on so you can have a templet for the size board you want to cut. I make mine on the table saw.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/1027160749-00.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1477603463)
Hope this helps
gww
Gww, I'm not sure what I'm looking for in the picture. Is it the measuring stick? If so, I have an aluminum ruler that I plan to work into the mill once I secure my zero point.
Josh
It is just a board with slots cut in it. One is for one inch boards and another is cut for two inch boards. I make my boards 1/16 under an inch and so I have to cut slots that way with 1/8 inch added for the blade. A ruler will not work great because you have to do the math everytime to add the blade to it. Plus your logs will not make the same sized cant everytime and so you always have to start from a differrent place. This is just a board and a weld clamp and it is on the non movable part of my mill and is measuring the movable part. The picture come out sideways and so I can see the confussion. Did I clear it up any?
Cheers
gww
Josh
I put the board on the mill at the last cut that gets me a square cant. So I don't need a zero point because it is put on at the hight of the last cut and when I lower the head to the next notch, the board will come out correct. So I put it on when I have the log squared.
Cheers
gww
Quote from: mazdathumps on March 09, 2017, 10:18:32 PM
Joe, does the diesel make a mess on the wood or the mill?
No. You use very little. A couple drops per cut. Just enough to remove most of the pitch.
This picture is out of focus but it is a steal plate on the side of the blade guide, a thick piece of felt and another steal plate. The piece of felt has a notch cut in it and a piece of 1/8" soft plastic tubing is put in the notch and pinched by the plates enough to hold in place but not quite enough to pinch the tube closed. The felt is rubbing on the blade and the steel plates are 1/8" or so above the blade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35805/outboard_blade_guide_front.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1485363193)
This is the other end of the tube. It is just an oil bottle that I fill half full of diesel with the tube a press fit into a hole in the lid. Normally the bottle is standing up but once I am into a cut 6" or so I tip the bottle upside down and give it a light squeeze and the diesel works down the tube to the felt and wipes onto the blade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35805/Wiring2C_diesel_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1485363223)
If I saw all day long with really pitchey pine logs I may use a full quart of diesel.
Many others us water mixed with soap or windshield washer fluid. I found diesel works the best for me and I don't have to worry about it freezing.
Joe
I don't have pine but you have almost convince me to try it again. I already have the plumbing, just been too lazy to use it.
Cheers
gww
Gww, I see... you clamp it at your highest or most recent cut and measure down from there by looking at your stick. Consistent regardless of cant size.
Joe, the first time I built this I had a 2 gallon jug and 1/4" tubing dripping down on the blade. It made such a mess and I didn't notice any difference in cut. I like the wet felt idea. I may work that in somehow.
Cooks sells these magnetic rules at a good price.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Cooks_rule~2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489150730)
The felt wet sandwich works great. I need it on these nasty pitchy red pines we've got here. Kerosene and bar oil mix.
That magnetic ruler is pretty cool. Ive got a couple aluminum yard sticks just for my mill, just haven't spent the time to install them yet.
I think the wet felt thing is gonna happen at some point on my mill.
Josh,
The issue with the yard sticks you got is you will have to do some math if you want a specific thickness like 1" or 1.5" to account for the saw kerf. But, if that is not an issue with what your are doing, you could go to a hobby store (Michael's / Hobby Lobby) and get a roll of stick-on magnetic strip. Stick that on to the back of your yard stick and then you can mount it on your mill (if you have a place).
On the other side I put my second rule that measures from the bottom up.
This rule tell me how far off the bed my blade is at all times. So if I'm cutting
a cant it makes it so easy. Also on my last cut if I'm say cutting 1-1/2" boards
and what i got on the mill is 2" I know real fast that i need to cut 1/2' off.
I don't even need to know what the last board is to get my cut right.
As for measuring my boards, right now I use a tape measure and pencil. Lol I measure after each cut. While I'm there I measure my cant for more efficient lumber with less "extra" cuts to finish off my log... I'm sure, as I cut more and more, I'll change my process and even be able to read the wood well enough to have a plan from the beginning. For another project I'm working on, I need 2x4s, so I've been cutting them exact. I think I'll pass a few feet through the blade(s) before I jump too much on technical things. Thanks for all the input. It's like a river of experience and knowledge - it just keeps coming... haha
What's your story about the barbecue sauce?
The bbq sauce started when I found myself mixing sauces at restaurants because each individual sauce was missing something. I started with vinegar and ketchup and added stuff until I had a good recipe. I had plans to have it packaged for sale this year, but I think I have too much going on this year. Work is requiring an AA or AS degree in the next few years, so I have that to add to my life this year. I think the sauce can wait a few years. It's really good sauce, just wish I could sell it... My brother in law is a lawyer and he's working on my trademark brand currently, called JED's Brand Sweet Heat BBQ Sauce.
I wish you well on that endeavor - it sounds like you might make it given a little more time.
The dumb part is that the state of Florida allows food sales if labeled correctly. BBQ Sauce is one of the "not included" food items... Every ingredient is store bought, but because I opened and mixed them, I can not sell it legally... It is what it is I guess. Haha
JED's Brand Sweet Heat BBQ Sauce
I like the name. It's something people will remember...
Haha Thanks. I've given away probably 3 gallons locally to friends and all. I've had all good responses and zero negative responses, so I guess it's good stuff. I like it.
The problem I'm having is co-packers require minimum orders of like 100 gallons. That's like 750 bottles. Roughly $4000 - $5000 later... That's a major investment upfront. To break even, I'd have to sell probably 80% of those bottles. Just a lot to deal with on top of everything else.
How about making a small batch and going to a fair or some larger gathering and asking people to taste it and giving honest views. Don't tell anybody that you're the owner, just that you're being paid by the guy to get opinions. You'll likely get good, honest reviews then. I have to admit, bud. If I was down there and one of your friends and you asked me how it was, I'd say it was good even if I didn't like it because I don't want to offend you. Even if it was a lie. Isn't that horrible?
Haha, Ox. I understand your logic there. The time to do that is my problem. Maybe once I get through my college degret for work, I can pursue it.
Well, as my fortune would have it with this mill, I broke my idle wheel axle again - just outside of my weld... Something has to be done with this I guess... I'll weld it back together tomorrow and put it back on... It bent my blade up into all kinds of shapes, so that's done... I will have to bring my other dull blades to be sharpened now while I wait on the (5) I ordered to get here... haha, it's been a rocky road with this thing, but I'll beat it and be glad I never gave up...
I'm ready to make a video of me cutting some stuff but it's getting difficult with things breaking... haha
Is it possible to sleeve it?
Josh
Sorry for your trouble. I have had things break lots of times and it can ruin a half day to a day at a time. You really aught to think about a bar in front of your wheels. You would lose about two inches of cut dept but it would take all the pressure off of your shafts and make for less possible flex during the cut. I don't pretend that I know of an easy way to do it. If you had a way to get both your shafts to come all the way through your wheels, it would be very easy to do cause all you would need is two more pillow block bearings and a piece of square tubing or pipe.
I am thinking you are going to have a continuing issue with this though it could be that the shaft is just flawed due to being broke once before. You might need to cut with a bit less tension if you keep it like it is.
Either way when you get it going, I would still love to see a vidio.
I weld so well that one time I was cutting and my motor fell off due to the weld breaking so don't think I am making fun of anything. Just trying to come up with ideals that help get you where you want to be with the key being "How you want it".
I always just cut till something breaks and then do the minimum to get it cutting again, but, I also don't have another job that steals my time and have no intention of trying to do anything but keep up with my own little projects. You have mentioned maby being able to make a little extra cash off of yours and so may need a differrent standard then what works for me.
You might try just a bit less tension if you leave it built the same and if it cuts well, that would also extend the life of your blade.
Thanks for the update and I am wishing you good luck on your repairs. You will learn more and get much better at all of it as you do it (not saying you are not good now). My mill right now is working better then it has ever worked (now that I am about done with my pile of logs and projects that I was set on).
One thing I have found about break downs now is that they don't bother me as bad now as they used to because I have gotten pretty good at slapping it back together pretty quick and getting cutting again.
Cheers
gww
Ps Or ox's Ideal, he is just a much faster typer then me ;).
It's easy to get stuck in the mindset that ya gotta fix what's there. Maybe a new high strength shaft is in order for that side? For reference I have 1 7/16" shafts on mine, plain steel as far as I know. Why that and not 1 1/2" I'll never know. Probably a cost thing for putting together the hardware kit.
Quote from: Ox on March 12, 2017, 09:52:14 PM
Is it possible to sleeve it?
I feel like if I sleeve it, and it still breaks, I have a bigger mess to fix... I like the idea of the bigger axle, but that's buying new axle rod, pillow block bearings, and hubs... If nothing else works, I may just have to do that or like what GWW has talked about with the front support bar from wheel to wheel...
Quote from: gww on March 12, 2017, 10:12:02 PM
You might try just a bit less tension if you leave it built the same and if it cuts well, that would also extend the life of your blade.
I plan to pull back the tension and see how my cuts come out...
This is the broken axle...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/broken_axlej.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489455139)
This is the welded axle...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/welded_axle_1j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489455191)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/welded_axle_2j.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489455194)
Welded axle mounted up.... again....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/mounted_axlej.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489455191)
So, since It rained ALL DAY today, I wasn't able to get back on the mill after putting the axle back on... Although, since it was a rainy day, I did get some much needed work done under my barn... I wish I would have taken a before and after picture, but either way, this is the after picture... wires ran through the table to a power strip up front... Plenty of room between each tool and they are all removable using wing nuts... I plan to mount this power strip under the front...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/workbench_remodelj.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489455193)
Josh
Thanks for the update and pictures.
gww
I would think that if you would move the one pillow block out
onto the angle iron that It would help a lot.
Can you move the hubs back so they are nearly touching the front bearing and move the being stop to one of the other bearings. The farther the distance from the front bearing to the blade the more pressure and bending on the shaft.
Thanks for the comments...
The pillow block bearings are as close to the front of the machine as they can be currently... This axle is my idle/alignment/tensioner axle, so the bearing has to stay on the plate to be able to adjust...
As for moving the hubs back, there is only about a 3/8" gap between the wheel and the frame as it sits... So no movement there...
On the good side of things, the welded axle is doing great... I didn't tension the blade quite so tight today... I cut an entire log up today after re-aligning EVERYTHING (again) and as soon as I was done, touched the pillow block bearings and they were still cold (in the past they were hot)... So, i'm guessing maybe I was a little too tight on the blade which "could" have been the major stress on the axle... That's still debatable, but it's working fine for now... haha
I think i'm going to add my blade lube next... This pine is gumming up the blade and randomly causing my cut to wander just a hair...
Josh
I have no ideal if it would work but I saw a vidio one time where the guy claimed that if you stoped the forward movement of the cut while in the log that the blade would self clean a bit on its own.
I have never cut pine and so have no experiance of my own. You could get a squirt bottle and put it on stream and just squirt a little diesel on the blade while cutting and see what effect that had. It might get you by untill you get the system installed.
Cheers
gww
Alright, well today was a little more fun than the past few days... haha I was able to cut some wood without something breaking on me...
I made a video of me cutting some wood and close up of the wood afterwards to show the straightness of it...
https://youtu.be/7YkApYzP0iI
I still have to put my blade lube on because this pine is leaving sap on the blade and guides and making my blade dip into the wood... I quit cutting after I noticed this and I'm pretty confident it's why my blade started dipping towards the end of the log... I will have to take a file or wire brush and remove the sap from the guides... As for the blade, I think a good bath in diesel or something will clean it up...
GWW, I like the spray bottle idea and it's cheap... Eventually, I should have a lube system on there that works... Probably the felt pad idea with diesel and kerosene...
Also, here in FLorida, we have termites... They show up within hours of cutting pine... Currently, i'm using Raid brand ant and roach spray when I find them in my wood... Is there something that I can buy at Lowes or Walmart or somewhere to battle these guys before they get into my wood stacks??
If you use diesel in a spray bottle be extremely careful. You need to get the diesel on the inside of the of the blade and if you put too much on the blade can float off the wheels. The best way that I have found to prevent the blade from coming off is to get a few inches into the the cut then spray the diesel while still pushing the head forward. That tends to keep the blade from coming off even if I put to much diesel on.
Quote from: mazdathumps on March 14, 2017, 06:23:57 PM
Alright, well today was a little more fun than the past few days... haha I was able to cut some wood without something breaking on me...
I made a video of me cutting some wood and close up of the wood afterwards to show the straightness of it...
https://youtu.be/7YkApYzP0iI
I still have to put my blade lube on because this pine is leaving sap on the blade and guides and making my blade dip into the wood... I quit cutting after I noticed this and I'm pretty confident it's why my blade started dipping towards the end of the log... I will have to take a file or wire brush and remove the sap from the guides... As for the blade, I think a good bath in diesel or something will clean it up...
GWW, I like the spray bottle idea and it's cheap... Eventually, I should have a lube system on there that works... Probably the felt pad idea with diesel and kerosene...
Also, here in FLorida, we have termites... They show up within hours of cutting pine... Currently, i'm using Raid brand ant and roach spray when I find them in my wood... Is there something that I can buy at Lowes or Walmart or somewhere to battle these guys before they get into my wood stacks??
Mill's cutting good! You should be able to go a bit faster with the feed if everything's holding together. The pitch on the guides will come off with some diesel/kero being squirted on like Joe says.
As far as blade tension - I've experimented with just about everything and the sharpness and set of the blade counts for more that the tension. You can have all the tension in the world but if it's not sharp and set proper it won't cut worth a darn! Hopefully your mill will stay together a while this time and you can just piddle around with it when you feel like. I don't have any idea how to battle termites cause they can't live up here. This is pretty much the only benefits to living up here - no termites, killer bees or fire ants.
Now, I just wish I had all the trees back that I butchered getting this thing cutting right. Haha.
We have ants, bees of all sorts, and lots of termites. It's FL building code to have termite spray put down before a concrete foundation is poured. Stem wall, whatever, has to be sprayed under the foundation.
Next I would be putting a Zero-max right next to you'r engine
to drive a power carriage feed. Very simple and easy to do.
Josh
Maby do a search of this site on treating wood. I think they spay with something called borak or something like that. It was brought up recently in other threads but for the life of me I can not remember which one or I would post it.
I think your mill is doing well. I notice that you don't have near the bounce in your tires that I do on mine. I didn't see anything wrong with your boards and like ox said, the more you use it the more you will adjust your flow during the cut. I still cut pretty slow myself and that could be a factor in my blade not staying sharp as long as I think it should. I thought it did good. I have notice on the what you are sawing thread when there are pictures of what others cut, even the $30,000 mills have some imperfections in thier boards. You are just going to have to put a planer on your wish list if you want perfection. (I don't want perfection and a planer is on my list).
Don't let the tire hit the boards you are walking on though I doubt it would hurt much.
By the way, I jinxed myself when I mentioned the log stops being wood. I forgot another one up yesterday and so it is now shorter. I am going to have to make more of them if I keep wittling them down.
I think you are now walking in tall cotton. Consider those previous logs as part of the cost of building a mill. I have made lots of logs into fire wood, ha ha.
Good job
gww
Ps I don't know what a zero max that K mentions is but I do know what power feed means and it make my tounge hang out and dribble slobber in anticipation. If I had a four pole head and my mill did not walk so bad side to side, I would be looking hard at that.
Also what ox said, a good blade can make up for alot, I am guessing you are still doing this with one of your first three blades.
Water will usually do the trick on my mill just a little drip system seems to work just fine. Gravity fed. Quite a few people just use weed sprayers as well. Like Linn Lumber. You can buy those pretty cheap. Once you have some lube system on there just running you blade with the lube on will typically clean off any build up. That last board look real nice!
Quote from: Kbeitz on March 14, 2017, 07:54:41 PM
Next I would be putting a Zero-max right next to you'r engine
to drive a power carriage feed. Very simple and easy to do.
This might be further down the road if at all... I'm cheap and simple and don't mind pushing a little to save some $$... haha
Quote from: gww on March 14, 2017, 08:07:43 PM
I think your mill is doing well. I notice that you don't have near the bounce in your tires that I do on mine. I didn't see anything wrong with your boards and like ox said, the more you use it the more you will adjust your flow during the cut. I still cut pretty slow myself and that could be a factor in my blade not staying sharp as long as I think it should. I thought it did good. I have notice on the what you are sawing thread when there are pictures of what others cut, even the $30,000 mills have some imperfections in thier boards. You are just going to have to put a planer on your wish list if you want perfection. (I don't want perfection and a planer is on my list).
Don't let the tire hit the boards you are walking on though I doubt it would hurt much.
By the way, I jinxed myself when I mentioned the log stops being wood. I forgot another one up yesterday and so it is now shorter. I am going to have to make more of them if I keep wittling them down.
I think you are now walking in tall cotton. Consider those previous logs as part of the cost of building a mill. I have made lots of logs into fire wood, ha ha.
Good job
gww
Ps I don't know what a zero max that K mentions is but I do know what power feed means and it make my tounge hang out and dribble slobber in anticipation. If I had a four pole head and my mill did not walk so bad side to side, I would be looking hard at that.
Also what ox said, a good blade can make up for alot, I am guessing you are still doing this with one of your first three blades.
I have a 13" planer, but seldom use it... I like the rustic look for the most part...
The boards that I walked on are now stickers for my stacks, they were just parked there for the time being...
I thought about your log stops today... It seems it would be most advantageous when cutting stickers to run the log stops all the way up and just cut them with the stickers... Anyways, that was my thought... Just keep making more of them...
I'm using a brand new blade today... also re-leveled the blade after installing the new one today... I tend to do this a lot - I guess i'm paranoid with this mill... haha
Quote from: JRWoodchuck on March 14, 2017, 08:23:44 PM
Water will usually do the trick on my mill just a little drip system seems to work just fine. Gravity fed. Quite a few people just use weed sprayers as well. Like Linn Lumber. You can buy those pretty cheap. Once you have some lube system on there just running you blade with the lube on will typically clean off any build up. That last board look real nice!
Thanks. Someone mentioned a felt pad that actually touches the blade with a lube on it... I like that idea and it seems more controlled/less messy... I had water on my first build and it was such a mess (which I see now that I was using way too much water)...
I don't think cutting your log stops all the way down will work.
The log is round and after the first cut the log stops wont
be touching you'r log anymore.
I think he was saying just when cutting stickers to use wood stops "temporarily" only for the stickers. It actually makes sense to me. Cut the backstops down with the stickers. When you're done you got a layer of 1" stickers and a 1" stub of your backstops left. I hate doing stickers but it's a necessary evil.
As far as checking your blade level it's a good idea with a newer machine just to be sure everything is breaking in and your settings are not moving around. You'll trust your mill more and more just like everything else.
The only thing I could see bad about cutting the stops down is if one of them as it got cut, ended up between the tire and blade. You know how sometimes the board will slide sideways toward your guides at the very end of the cut. I heard some thing that seemed to catch and send something flying is how I found the last one I cut. I thought I had hit metal or something but when I looked closer I could see my stop was shorter. I think it would be kinda a freak thing if it did pop off and do the tire blade thing cause I have cut them a bunch and it hasn't happened yet. I also think saw dust is easier to clean up then a bunch of little chunks of wood.
I never try to cut them cause between stickers and the log stops and the pallets to stack on, all that actually takes a lot of extra wood and it is hard for me to give up more of what could be boards for one off stuff. Plus I cut my stops on the table saw so they are a little tight cause mine just slide and I don't have a jam nut to hold them in place. So I get a few out laying along the side of my mill and get used to what to grab for what and me being me, I hate change once I get used to where things are.
It is a visious cycle where you have to keep cutting boards so you have a way to store the boards you are cutting.
I do understand the speed and niceness of having five boards stacked by each other and not having to keep going around to lower your stops that are holding those boards up so you can cut them into stickers.
I don't know which would be better and clean up or ease of cutting. I am sure Josh is going to figure that out though.
I hate everthing about stickering. You got to cut them, then stack your board and then when you want a board, unstack them and then after you have your board, restack them and you either have a bunch of stickers when unstacking that are worth reusing and so you have to store them or you have to cut more so you can stack.
Did I mention I hate stickering.
I like best to cut and use but it is hard to start a project with out a lot of boards to get you started pretty good on it and things like the bee hives I make need dried lumber.
I think Ox said it best, now that you have the mill, it could change your life.
Cheers
gww
gww - it really is like a form of structured madness, isn't it? Try explaining to someone who has no idea about wood, trees or mills. Like a shut-in from the city or something. Explain to them the ENTIRE process of milling (felling, skidding, milling, stacking, unstacking, building) with every little detail and then tell them you're glad you're able to do it and I'm sure they'll get scared thinking they're in the same room with a crazy fool!
I hate stickering and stacking too. I don't think anybody likes it much. Some may not mind it as bad but I don't think anybody actually LIKES it! :D
Gotta go play in the 3 foot plus of global warming out there for the next bunch of hours...
From what I gather, I'm not the only one who finds a certain hate for stickering also... Yesterday, I cut like 300 stickers just to have some on hand. I make short stickers, like 10" each and stack more stacks to make it easier to find and take one peice of wood without moving large amounts of wood.
As for the wood log stop, I was meaning for just stickers. I see Gww's concern also. That would be a mess to have one of those little buggers sling up into something vital.
It's a little chilly out today and tomorrow, so I doubt I'll get much done with the mill. I hate the cold more than stickering. Haha
Sure wish I had some of you'r Florida cold right now...
I think I would be out and about...
Yep.
Haha. Yeah, it's not so bad if you're used to it, but I'm not a cold weather person. If I liked cold, I'd move to Alaska and be a bush person and search for gold, but I can't do the cold.
I started on the blade lube system today but technology is not working well tonight at work so the pictures won't load. Anyways, I'll upload them asap. I have good feelings about it.
I hate the cold... I moved to Ga. for 5 years.
I could not wait to come back to Pa so I could hate it some more.
GA is dreadful with or without cold... North of Atlanta and FL/GA line is the only nice parts. Lol
I was in Jesup and that was not to far from the line.
I enjoyed the Okefenokee Swamp and that was all.
I know where Jesup is. I live a few miles from the Suwannee River. I love it here except the cold days. Haha
I gotta know what you consider cold. :laugh:
For me, anything under 50 is cold. I am not a happy camper in cold weather. I can run hard all summer in the 90's with no problem, but I am a grumpy old man in anything under 50. I stay inside usually. Luckily, we have many more hot days than cold. Haha
Boy what I give for a 50.
Crazy. You and me are opposites. When it's 90 it's unbearable here. Very humid all the time in the summer, lots of trees around. I can't take the heat and humidity. 50 is great working weather. In fact, 65 or so, partly cloudy with a slight breeze is perfect for me. T shirt weather for anything but just sitting around. Just sitting in the shade 75 is better. I can simply sit in the shade when it's 90 and humid but I still have the sweat rolling into my eyes.
I hate the snow but can't take the heat either. I'm screwed.
Haha. I think 70 or so is good for working with a long sleeve shirt. 80 and 90's are good for siting in shade. Haha. Funny how get used to where we live. 35 years in Florida for me.
Going on 41 years in upstate north Appalachia for me. I'm definitely warm blooded. The heat just makes me sweat so much it's hard to stay hydrated then I get to feeling sickly. I oughta just sit in the durn house and forget about everything. But I won't cause that's what quitters and dregs on society do. >:(
Me and lazy boy have made a deal. When it is 90 or above,we visit each other in the air conditioning.
Cheers
gww
Here's a sneak peak at the blade lube system I'm working on...
The galv plate is the one I made to fit with the other to wedge the cloth between for the lube...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170315_171354_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489685125)
This is the tank mounted on the frame out of the way... I built an aluminum tray to hold the lube container to prevent corrosion maybe (from scraps around my shed)...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170315_162800_28450x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489685107)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20170315_162748_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489685081)
I plan to get the lube system finished up today... I'll get some more pictures
On a side note, since I'm a sissy in this cold weather, I've been working on my 3D Cad drawings of my band saw mill... So far, i've got the frame built and i've started exploding that into single pieces to cut and drill before welding it all together... I've had some people ask for drawings/plans, so I figure I would share in a usable and understandable way... I've always been a fan of sharing knowledge and, again, thankful to each of you helping me on getting this thing fixed and running much much better...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/frame_final_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489685655)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/frame_part_B.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489685658)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/carriage_final.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489685977)
More to go, but this is what i've got so far... I spent about a year at work doing some additional work with my engineering dept. so I gained some experience with Cad drawings... I'm still no where near those guys, but I did learn some tricks and tips...
Josh
All my sheds and stuff that I have built have been loosly based on free plans that I found on the internet. If I could have found a free mill plan, I sure would have been looking at it. Believe me, I looked hard and the only thing close was a 3d vidio.
Cheers
gww
Ps Maby you can put sorta a parts list type things that shows where you got some of the things like the wheels the head sit on and things like that.
I plan to create a parts list with every bolt, washer, nut, etc... as for where I bought everything - that may be a little trickier being that I hunted the internet until I found the cheapest prices on things. Im not sure where I bought many misc items. I can go back and research, but I may come up short on a few.
Also, for liability reasons, I'm not showing the entire build. It will be like 80% complete, but you have to finish it. Kind of like buying full-auto kits for guns, they sell them at 80% machined parts, you finish the rest at home.
Been a while guys... I've been pretty busy over here in central Florida... Had the daughters spring break and it seems like everyone wanted something last week... Whew, this week maybe I can calm down a little...
I got my blade lube system built and it keeps the blade clean like glass... I think it's a success... Some pictures below
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/untitled5.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490061167)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/untitled6.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490061168)
Now that the blade pitch issues is resolved, I am still not cutting straight... I am apparently missing something major and have no clue what it is... Blade tension is still a gray area for me and I plan to visit a few local mills and feel the tension on their blades to see in relation where I am... Blade tension is the only un-solid variable I can think of... Power is there, belt tension is there, clean and/or new blade is there, guides are level to deck... >:( just not sure what in the world is causing the roller-coaster ride with the blade... It's not as extreme as before, but it's there and enough to need to fix it... Also, which I imagine is a by-product of the unknown issue, is my blade drops about a quarter inch on the exit of my log... With that said, it also rises on entry about a quarter inch (at a slope over about 12 inches)... On wide boards, I have a very very slight crown in the middle of the cut...
Here's a picture of the exit...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/untitled7.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490061175)
I steer towards blade tension, but I'm hoping it's something that doesn't put heavy strain on my axles or consist of upsizing them altogether (or building a front support like GWW advises)...
Otherwise, hope everyone is doing well...
Josh,
What is the profile of your tires? Do they have a decent crown to them or are the teeth of the blade touching rubber? That is the reason I used doughnut spare tires - they are profiled like a bicycle tire - very rounded. If they are touching, then that would knock the set out of one side of your blade. I would expect that to make your blade dive (with the set remaining on the bottom of the blade) but who knows? IF the teeth are touching the rubber, you can take a 4½ grinder and cut away some tread at the front of the blade. Let the wheel spin (idle side) while you cut - the powered side you can have it running as you cut. Obviously, no saw blade while you are doing this! ;)
You can buy a tension tool off E-bay to check your blade tension.
I'm using an alloy blade. Would the rubber on the tire really pull the set off the blade?
Quote from: Kbeitz on March 20, 2017, 10:22:32 PM
You can buy a tension tool off E-bay to check your blade tension.
Yeah, I see... $$
haha
I was told that you can clamp on a dial caliper and get the same results.
I have a Thomas,at the time,no gauge for the tension,I just tighten and press down on the blade and can give a good guess when it is right. But they use belted wheels too,like a WM.
Josh
How much have you cut with that blade? They can be dulled pretty easy and won't do too much anyway (in my mind). The log and stress can cause issues. Does it act the same when you slow down your cut speed? My vote though is the flex issue is giving you problims. I am thinking that bigger shafts or front support will help.
I hate to run you down a rabbit hole though. I think you should try to cut one time at about 3/4 of the motors rpm and slow the blade down that way, just to see what might happen. I doubt you blade is moving too fast but I have read on the cooks site that too fast can cause the following of wood grain at knots in the log.
From cooks web site
QuoteI must remind you, sawing straight is not a guessing game either. It is a scientific process that can be repeated IF you follow the scientific rules. It is easy to saw straight, even through those hard knots. Just remember the 5 rules: #1 Blade must be sharp, #2 blade must be set to clear the blade, #3 the blade must be flat (MUST BE), #4 guides must hold the blade straight away, never up, never down, just straight away, #5 when the first four are correct and the blade is rising or diving the vertical alignment of the band wheels must be adjusted. Following these will always work, no matter who built the sawmill. Then when you put a Super Sharp™ blade into action you will be producing profits. Just imagine what all you can do with the extra money!
I find #5 of the above interesting.
Another interesting thing on the cooks site is that if you took the guides off and measured your blade to your log deck, it is better if the wheels tilt the blade 1/16th of an inch forward and no matter what no more then 1/8th inch forward and this will allow the best adjustment of your guide allowing the blade to contact the guides best when you compleetly level the blade during adjustment.
I mention the cook thing because that is something you could adjust with just a shim at your bearings that hold your shaft. I cannot tell you what the out come would be but cook says that band wheel adjustment is the key. See if you catch it here though this is of course a sales pitch.
http://www.cookssaw.com/index.php/increase-portable-sawmill-profits-a-production/are-you-ready-to-saw-production
In the end in my mind the biggest improvement could be had with working on the flex issue but the other cheap things to do might get you close enough to not have to mess with it.
When you ran into trouble, did you try a new blade just to see the differrence?
I hope something in all this is some kind of help.
Good luck
gww
Three things will cause this, probably more, but this is a short dirty list: blade tension, mill alignment, sharpness/set of the blade.
The blade should enter and exit the log without moving at all. The most I've ever had it move was maybe 1/16" but it was due to log stress when exiting the log.
When things are new, expect a little settling/breaking in. You may need to do another alignment.
I'm also quite sure you can't get enough tension to get better results. The only way to fix this is to get bigger/stronger shafts installed and be absolutely sure your mill isn't flexing when tensioned. I know, money always affects decisions and I understand that. Believe me, I understand. :)
Is it possible your blade lube set up is hitting your teeth when the blade is pushed up and back into the blade guides? When I first put my blade guides on I had that problem.
Josh
From your picture, joe might be onto something. Expesially if it got worse after adding the lube.
Cheers
gww
I welded a 1/2" socket to my threaded tensioning rod and can hook up a torque wrench to it so I can see exactly where I am at tension wise. You should be able to pick up a torque wrench at pawn shop for pretty reasonable.
Guys I am grateful for the responses but this thing has got me bummed out AGAIN... I do plan to respond to everyone. I worked last night and slept today and work again tonight, so gonna try to get on here asap and do some talking. Just didn't want everyone thinking I was ignoring them. Haha
Josh
I don't need a responce and also don't want to over load you with too much static that might not help. I cut yesterday on a big old white oak and I am getting a little wave myself at the knots. The same thing that would help your mill would help mine. My problim is that I done have the logs and it is mostly good enough and sometimes even perfect. I like the clear wood best :). If I had to pay for logs I would try harder. I do know the type of stuff you show usually won't show when building sheds and stuff. On the other hand, I have got the little hump in the middle before and am not getting it now but don't really know which change fixed it. I just have a floting head on two poles and so you would think I would get more then a four post mill like yours. I did get some wave yesterday at knotts. Since all I did was make a cant and didn't cut more, I don't know if the whole log will be like that or if I slow down a bit it will flatten out.
I just throw things out that I hope help more then hurt. I also have never seen a saw except mine actually cut wood (except circle saws when young) and so all my advice is based on what seems right on my saw.
Good luck
gww
Alright guys, I'm back to normal over here... Truck out of the shop and maybe I'll get some sleep tonight or tomorrow... haha
Anyways, my post with my rollercoaster saga was a rushed post and I may have forgotten some details, so I'll lay out a few more details about my cut that day...
- I used a barely used and a new blade that day with the same results on each
- I was cutting about a 9 month old water oak that had dried some (water oak is hard to begin with) with a 10 degree hook angle - maybe too much for that hard wood per Timberwolfs website
- I dropped my engine RPMs down about half and it cut about 50% cleaner, but still rose in the first 12 inches or so and dropped off at the end of the cut
- Pine was cutting fairly well with maybe a 1/16" gap under a 3ft straight edge near my knots (livable amount for me) with the same setup
As for RPM drop and cut, it cut better, but still didn't fix the issue completely...
As for wheel alignments - they are pretty close, but don't the blade guides correct the slight indifferences between the 2 wheels? And why one wood and not the other?
I've got 5/8" coupler nuts on each end of my alignment/tension rods I could use a torque wrench on, but I think the tension from pushing against the frame would make my readings higher than what's actually on the blade.
As for the blade lube fabric, I feel the fabric would just rip if the teeth hit it... Hey, at least my blade is clean right
Thanks for all the comments and concerns... I take note of everything ya'll mention... I'm kind of thinking the tooth angle may have a big part in this... Maybe I'll try a 8 or 7 degree blade and see - that seems the cheapest potential solution so far...
As for axle size and all, I'm working on some ideas to solve this... Just gotta make the time to sit down and be serious about it...
Sorry about the randomness of my post, I've had like 5 hours of sleep since 6am yesterday... 8)
Josh
One good thing about your post. If the blade is rising then the tires are not taking set out of the blade because that would cause diving.
If it is just the rag hitting the blade, maby it would just rip but if it was the metal part hitting the blade it would take the set out and the blade would raise.
On the guides doing all the work, I only gave referance that cooks said if the guide where right then the wheel alignment was what is left. I personally don't know.
As far as the two woods maby being differrent, I doubt the hardness differrence is a problim unless it has a bunch of soft going to hard like knotts or rot creates, However, the stresses in each log can be very differrent and some logs just can not be cut good and smaller logs are the worst.
Every part of the guide system needs to be solid.
All said, I can not think of anything else that might help except flex in the mill changing some setting during the cut.
I still like any report you give cause we may all learn something here.
I do know you are busy and so no pressure.
Good luck
gww
As for the lube system metal plate, it doesn't hit the blade and some things would have to fail drastically for the blade to touch it... I can squash that bug for us... haha
Do a search for blade rising in cut or something like that, then see what they did to solve it. You're not the only one. If I remember correctly it's always a mill alignment or blade problem of some sort.
Something else I just thought of - are you slowly and gently easing your blade into the log or are you entering the log at regular milling speed? You need to do the latter even though it seems like you can't or shouldn't. The sooner you get your blade into the log and stabilized the better off you are.
Ox, I usually ease into the first few inches then gain steady speed. Maybe I'll try the latter and see what happens. As for right now, all I have for wood is this old water oak that is pretty dry. I'm trying to locate some fresh logs to determine the difference in cuts between the dry and green... I assume the dry is harder, requiring a less degree hook angle...
Hey, i've made it this far and it's holding together... My last two times cutting on it, I didn't break anything... haha
For what it's worth, I've milled black locust that was seasoned for around 10 years. Regarding seasoned black locust, the old timers used to say to put a rock on top of a black locust fence post and when the rock wears out, replace the post whether it needs it or not. ;D This stuff is one of the hardest ever known to mankind. I was expecting sparks or something after reading others talking about it. I was able to mill it perfectly, no waves, with 13hp and a Lenox 10° blade. It was one of my first things to mill on the mill I built and have now so no experience with the machine.
It might be your log. It would be easy to try a different one. But I REALLY think you have blade alignment issues. If you want perfect results you need to have PERFECT ALIGNMENT. :)
Alignment between wheels? Or via blade guides?
You can't rely on your guides to "make" the blade behave properly. They're "guides". They help guide the blade. The real alignment is between your wheels. If this isn't right the rest of the blade will be doing a little twist while being manipulated by the guides.
One more quick thing: Is the blade mounted the proper way? It's an easy mistake to make. A blade mounted the wrong way will still saw surprisingly well - saw it in a video. Lots of powder for sawdust.
Aligning a mill is a huge pain but totally worth it in the end. You can't do it when in a hurry or pissy or frustrated.
Do a search, you'll see what I mean. I don't mean to be short with you, not my intention, but these problems have been covered extensively on the forum. You might need to do some reading for a night or two now... :)
I am with ox on one thing and maby all. It is not the blade being a ten degree. The blade angle may make you slow down a little and therefor not being able to use the blade to its max (smaller bites might dull it faster then need be).
I think it is the wheel alignment and to me this would be easy to fix with a shim under your pillow bearings untill you get the blade with out the guides on to be level to leaning forward no more then 1/8 inch but hopefully closer to 1/16 inch.
The other posibility is that there is enough flex that when you get in the log, the shaft allows the wheel to come off its normal plane due to the flex. Slowing down durring the cut may midigate this a little but then the cut speed makes it to where your blade is not being use in the most efficient way.
One other possible way to make a small change on your blade alignment might be to change the profile of the tire by grinding with and angle grinder. I just throw this out there as something in my mind that I might try if it was mine but not that it will work. The reason I say that is because the blade tendency is going to be to try and ride on top of any hump and so wheel angle may win the day in the end.
I have cut everything I cut till this very last blade with 10 degree blades. I also still have issues every once in a while, like on the very last log that I squared up and that is still on my mill and that I have been too lazy to finish. It is not a clear wood log and has two areas with knots running through it. I also have not made any effort in a while to recheck all my alighnments cause I am not getting anything bad enough that it won't clean up with a planer.
In the end, you have to take whatever advice you get and then make your own decision on what to tackle and also when you hit what is good enough for your needs. I have never tried for perfection if I can stop short of it but still get what my needs require out of what I have. I like perfection better but it is still a compermize on persueing it or using what you are getting because it is good enough and you are getting it.
I am watching with what you come up with and hopeing the best for you and that you end up getting what you need from your mill.
Good luck
gww
Ps When I alighn my guides, I start with just the wheels and measure from the blade to the log bunk. I then lower my guides to bring the blade down 1/4 inch lower then they were with out the guide and do this on both guides. Then I put the strait edge on my blade and level the blade with the guide. This gives me my 1/4 inch down pressure of the guides on the blade.
Thanks guys. As for research on alignment, I wasn't real sure what to be doing my research on, but it seems I should be most worried about wheel alignment. A simple question while I'm here - are the wheels aligned 90 degrees to the log deck or 180 degrees wheel to wheel or both? Or do I just need to stick my nose in some info and make that decision myself? Lol
Josh
First I will tell you what I did and then I tell you what I think you should do.
What I did was take a long strait edge across both tires side ways and then made sure that the tires touched it everywhere left and right of both tires at the same time. For the up and down, I used a level like you would if setting a pole in the ground on the front of the tire.
Now for what I think you should do. Raise your guides and put a level on your blade by your tires just like you did on your guides and see what you get. If it seems pretty level than put your strait edge on the blade right by the tire and then measure the ends of the strait edge to your deck just like you did on the guide. Then add shims under your pillow blocks untill you are perfect on each side of the blade or according to cooks even better 1/16 of an inch shorter on the front then the back.
I think that is what they are talking about and where you are with your mill being done and even better by the way you built it, it should be real easy to do. I do not think the side to side is as important as the up and down is if your blade will track on the wheel and stay on. I say that unless it is so bad that it goes to one side over to the other side on the ridge of the tire. Mine does not ride in the exact portion of my tire all the way on a 360 degree turn.
If you turn your tire and are staying in the 1/16 to 1/8 to level on your blade, I believe you will have done what you are trying to do.
If this does not make sense, please tell me.
Good luck
gww
I think I understand GWW. It's windy and has sprinkled off and on today, so I don't think I'll be out there today, and I have another busy weekend this weekend, but I'm sure I can squeeze some time in here and there and at minimum check to see where I stand currently on alignment. At least I'll know where I stand and that will determine where I need to go. Either way, I'll do what you've explained above. It sounds solid.
When I was dropping of my blades to be resharpened today with one of my local sawyers, I explained to him my situation and he says he supports checking alignment between the 2 wheels also. He wasn't sure how that would work with pneumatic tires, but says it's a good place to show concern.
Just to throw a little more info out there... I had been wondering about my log bed being level and hone stay just assumed it would not have moved any since I built it. Well just for kicks and giggles, I pulled a string line on it to check for level from one end to another. My 2 center pieces were about 1/8th lower than the rest. One of which I use to set my blade guides on... I have spent the last hour shimming here and there to level this thing out. Not sure if this helps the situation or not, but wanted to throw it in here. I can't hurt to be level.
Josh
My first log bunk seems to be bent a little lower them the rest. I have not fixed it but do measure the cant every so often to see what I am getting and where. If the log is short enough, I try not to use that bunk.
I do not know of the effect towards the problim you are having but would say that it being right is helpfull even if not the whole game.
Cheers
gww
Ps I also find the cant will warp a little and so I keep some little thin 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick pieces of scrap by the mill to stick here or there based on what my cant measurement tells me that I need.
Cheers
gww
Not getting away from the alignment issue, which will still be dealt with, but fixing the bunk and re-setting my guides and dropping my RPM to about 1/4 throttle and plunging into the cut at normal feed rate , I cut some pretty dang straight wood just now. No rise, no waves... maybe a fluke, maybe something to it...
I still have every intention of aligning my wheels too... It can only help to have everything correct.
Quote from: mazdathumps on March 23, 2017, 06:03:56 PM
Well just for kicks and giggles, I pulled a string line on it to check for level from one end to another. My 2 center pieces were about 1/8th lower than the rest.
Did you also pull a string on the track to make sure it hasn't settled as well?
Josh
Every little bit helps, good for you.
gww
Ljohnsaw... you know I didn't think of that, but the measurements from the blade to the log bed are the same all the way down now, so I would assume the rail is parallel to the bunk. I'll have to check it tomorrow tho, just to be sure.
To hopefully answer a few of your questions as well: the wheel to wheel parallel and straight or whatever doesn't matter. It's only important what your blade is in comparison to the deck.
I guess I should have mentioned a straight, level and true deck. This should be first and foremost at all times. If your deck isn't straight neither is your lumber!
By your decreasing throttle you basically increased your feed rate. The teeth are taking a bigger bite like they're supposed to and are designed for, thus helping stabilize the blade.
When searching the forum I would recommend "blade rising in cut" or "blade dropping at end of log" or something like that to see what others have done.
Maybe when this adventure of yours is resolved you could nicely ask a moderator to move your build and process over to your very own build thread for others in the future to follow and learn from.
I wish you luck and hope you continue to improve your mill until you're happy with it. It doesn't matter if nobody else is happy with it - only what you think of it matters.
Thanks OX. I'm excited that it cut well, once... haha
I'll keep messing with it, next will be checking the wheel alignment and fixing any issues there.
I have read that blade guides must push blade down 1/4 inch . No experience here just been reading , and making my own list of parts.
Like OZ said "But please trust me in saying you need to have the driving wheel or tire PULLING the the blade through the cut. " Think ice fishing the sinker pulls the line down because it is a lot harder pushing the line down the hole. :D
you can't push a rope...
agree... The drive wheel is pulling the blade and yes, the roller bearing guides should be pushing down on the blade about 1/4"... They must be perfectly parallel to the log bed also...
For those wondering about my lack of update(s)... it's been crazy... Work stuff, going through divorce, and I ran out of logs to cut... I have done very little work with my mill since posting last... Eventually, I will get back into it and set up correctly... I have been promised about 12 yellow pines - some about 20ft long and some about 10ft long. From what I hear, they range from 12" to about 24" diameter... We will see if they deliver on these promises...
Well guys, post divorce, I hope to be updating a little more often... Just FYI, the wife/ex-wife and I are being very civil and there is no fighting or lawyers involved. No argument over our child, etc - we share 50/50 custody, etc... We just can't live together. lol
Another thing I failed to mention was that I visited another man's Woodmizer saw and his tension is much much tighter than my tension... This will be something I tackle when I get back into it...
Josh
Thanks for the update. I thought you fell off the edge of the earth.
Good luck
gww
Haha. No I'm still hanging in there.
I feel for ya... A divorce is one of the worst things in life to go through...
It's takes a lot of time to get semi over it. You never will completely over it.
Couple of small upgrades to my brothers office trailer club house that I have so many pictures of in this thread. I don't know how to make it seem sensible and understandable whit every thing spread through a whole thread and so I guess you will get out of it what you get out of it.
Plus I don't take good pictures. Part of that could be that having a fish fry on a Thousand degree day and drinking a few too boot and just really not being a good picture guy when things are perfect.
First is a hand washing station, shower and jakuzzi. I know it is hard to see and not done as we are going to put tanks to hold water on the frame work above it all. The air conditioner was stuck there today cause the air went out in the office trailer a couple of days ago.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/jeffs_001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500769353)
The shower hand washing station is at the end of the new kitchen addition. The bar is a junk board on some pallets. I didn't get it but there is a sink and tables on the trailer side in the new kitchen. I was standing on the concreet patio to take this picture but did a pore job of putting it in perspective to what was already there before the kitchen.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/jeffs_003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500769662)
The simple kitchen roof. The arrow showing the way to the outhouse is not up yet and in the lower right hand corner of the picture is the part of the door to the shower to put it in perspective.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/jeffs_006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500769996)
And lastly, a table for everyone.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/jeffs_007.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500770141)
I came home cause I was hot and did not feel like swimming and thought the chickens might like it if I turned on a sprinkler for them. I don't like these days that are going to be 90 degrees till midnite. Even cold beer and good food will only help so much on days like that.
If my typing is real bad on this post, it is either the beer or heat stroke.
Cheers
gww
Looks cool man. Looks like you've been busy. I cut a few pieces the other day
because I needed them for some stuff I was building. I also happen to pick up 6 pine logs from a guy. They are thick bark yellow pine. Still gotta cut them tho. Hope everyone is doing well.
Josh
I am not so busy. I did absolutly none of this later work except to provide some of the boards that I had all ready cut before. I have a log on the mill for two months but have not felt like cutting cause then I have to stack and sticker. I did plane some boards that I had drying for about 7 months and have been slowly building some bee hive stuff. Planing is hard work. I have a little 5000 watt ac in the garage and it will keep it below 80 degrees and with a fan is not too bad. The question is am I building even $5 a day worth of stuff to make up for running it.
I have moved enough boards that I am begining to make enough space to sticker more boards if I ever get to it.
I also was giving some pine logs. I don't know what kind of pine and have never cut a pine before and so some day I will be excited to try it, when it is cooler maby.
Hope your mill is doing well for you.
Cheers
gww
Good to hear. As for the pine, you probably want to cut it sooner than later. I don't know about up there, but down here if it sits a little, the bugs start chewing away at it. It also rots quickly here. I try to cut pine quickly after I get it.
My mill is doing ok on softwood, but still not good with hard wood. I think I've narrowed it down to the blade tension. I just can't do much more tension without the axles potentially breaking again. I have thought about making my pneumatic tires solid somehow, but haven't done the research on that. That way I could turn them true on a lathe even.
Anyways, glad you're keeping it going up there. Take care
Josh
I don't think I get enough tension to do as well as I could either. I just get enough to do what I do do barily.
I already have some rot in one of the logs, maby enough that it should be burnt instead of cut. The others are ok I think.
It is too hot to cut now for me, I am a baby when things are perfect.
Good to have heard from you.
Cheers
gww
My biggest pine log is looking bad on the outside, but the heart is big and orange. I'm hoping it's good at least.
Good hearing from you too
This is the first time I have cut in a long time. It sure is hard to get started with this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/Sawchicken_001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504190872)
Stupid chickens.
I did not check the tire pressure or anything and just started it and cut one pass. I had left it under tension. It cut just fine thank goodness and now I am back in my lazyboy thinking about what I have done. Sooner or later, I have to get some boards cut so they will be dry by next fall/winter. I have put it all off cause of the pure dread of restacking my other stickered boards so that I have some place to put new ones. That part of the process is the one that makes cutting your own lumber the hardest. It is so much better to be able to build things new with green right off the mill.
Since I am trying to keep busy in the garage during winter, I need dry.
Not to jinx myself but I am happy it seemed to work well after such a long sit in the weather.
Cheers
gww
gww,
Are you going to use some of that lumber you've cut to make guards around that blade? That looks a little unnerving.
gww - when the blade breaks and comes flying off it'll get one of them chickens and you can put em in the pot!
It's always good to know your equipment will work fine after a hibernation.
Gww, glad to see you're still using it. I used mine the other day and broke the axle. I welded it back together and cut some more after that. I've come to realization that I can't tension as much as I should be and that I'm better off cutting soft woods, for now, than rebuilding the whole thing to handle higher blade tension. I'm 99% sure this (tension) is where I was having my
roller coaster problem. I cut straight enough for soft wood to slip through the planer a few times and get correct.
As for the blade guard, I'm slacking on mine... Gotta get it built
Grouch
I doubt I put blade gaurds on it. I have broke about 10 blades and it is pretty much a non-event and I do all my cutting by myself (except for the chickens). The closest to hurting anything that I have done is the chickens know that logs have bugs and are not afraid of the motor and get inbetween the track. A gaurd would not help a chicken that gets in front of that blade. I do shut the engine off after every cut and restart for the next. Even that is not too bad cause I need ot move the boards anyway.
It is all good.
Cheers
gww
Josh
If I am building a shed, I don't worry about a little wave except on the floor I will pick through for the best. I find with my log quality that even if I have no wave, I do on some after drying. The planer gets most pretty strait.
Cheers
gww
Ox
It is really good to know it still works since I put no protection on it at all. Chicken taste good.
Cheers
gww
I'm glad she's still cutting OK for you but the question I have is: Why is there a baby seal laying next to your mill?!
Ga mtn man
That baby seal looks pretty bored doesn't it. She is probly thinking what is this idiot doing, we could be in on the couch.
Cheers
gww
Hello all. It's been a while since I've been on, but an unrelated question for gww about solar power got me back on here. I haven't cut much lately on my mill, but I thought I would post a small update.
Mazdat if you read any of my sawmill build saga, (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,88250.60.html) you know that I went through many frustrations cutting wavy wood. I put the bar on the front to keep the tires from "flexing" or bending inward when tension was increased. This REALLY seemed to help mine. It's still no where near perfect, but it is much better. It was def worth the time/effort/money. It wasn't very complex either. It is basically just two pillow block bearings (one of mine was an old trailer bearing bc that's what I had lying around) and a way to push them apart to counter the pull from the blade. You may have already gotten yours straitened out, but if not it would be worth a shot. I think you'd be happier. Your mill looks awesome btw. Much better than my rigged up piece.
Hope everyone is doing well!
GWW, I've also got a planer and if I need "perfect" lumber, I cut large and run through the planer until it's dimensional... Most of my rough cuts are structurally straight though... I made trusses for my shed and didn't send one board through the planer... That's straight enough for me... If I were milling for wall studs that were being covered in drywall, then yes, they would be sent through the planer... I tend to be on the OCD side of things and small imperfections would bother me down the road... :D
Georgia088, I have thought of a few ways to settle my axles breaking under strain. I like the idea of supporting the front of the hubs also... I think eventually, I will invest in actual casted band wheels and have to redo some of my welds and guides and all. For now, it cuts soft woods just fine. I would like to cut hard woods, but I have access to a good friend's uncle's mill if/when I need to cut nice wood... For now, I'm just stocking dimensional lumber from long leaf yellow pine that I get for free randomly... It's abundant around here and soft.
On a side note, hope everyone is doing well... This has been a crazy year for me, so I've spent less time on my sawmill than I'd like, but that's life and one day I'll jump back on it more... 8)
Besides bee hives, I have tried building another thing that is supposed to be simple but for sure is taxing my abilities.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/Coffee_table.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512487268)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/coffee.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512487496)
Because I am too cheep to run to town and buy a six dollar piece of plywood and didn't want to use enough boards to use all board, I found scrap and peiced together the drawer bottoms.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39533/coffee_28229.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512487839)
I found that hiding the fasteners and yet making it strong made it hard to keep gaps to the min. This little project taxes my skill level pretty bad. I always look at those that are good craftsmen but know I don't like projects that take more then a few days. Luckily, my daugter sent this request a long time ago because it could be done and was supposed to look rustic. I don't know if it is going to end up looking rustic or just sloppy. I only have the drawer face plates left to do and it is what it is.
Cheers
gww
Ps It is supposed to be a coffee table.
Oh man, that's not bad at all. Good job
Josh
If it looks ok, it is because the pictures don't show the flaws. Over all it is good enough but took over 3 days so far. It will work but I could do better maby the second time which will never happen after the first time. Thank you very much for the good words and I hope you are doing well.
gww
Gww, glad you still doing stuff. I've cut some wood lately, but nothing worth posting.
So, after cutting quite a bit of wood since last posting, I decided that my small 1" axle and trailer wheels aren't going to cut it (maybe some pun there)... I found some 16" pulley style band wheels on eBay with 1-1/2" mount sleeves that fit 1-1/2" shafts... I picked up a 1-1/2" cold rolled bar shaft at my local welding shop and it all seems to fit snugly... I'm heading out to Las Vegas for a few days, but when I get back, I plan to start the rebuild on the ole sawmill... Hopefully this will be the last time...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180122_164813_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516669395)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180122_095138_28450x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516669482)
Also, just for the fun of it... My YouTube video of my sawmill walk around gets over 10,000 views a month and I have over 500 followers... Not sure how all that happened, but apparently I influenced a few people around the world to build similar to my mill... It's humbling and honestly couldn't have been done without the help from ya'll on here... Thanks, ya'll are a part of those numbers too...
josh
I hope you keep posting your experiances and the changes that you make and your observations of what those changes do for you. I had heard that smaller radious does make blades break faster but believe that in your case with the bigger shaft that the trade off will be worth it and won't add up to much. I can't wait till you are done and cutting so you can give a report (if you feel like it). I guess you are a movie star now. Keep plugging away and keep sharing.
Cheers
gww
Quote from: mazdathumps on January 22, 2018, 08:09:09 PM
So, after cutting quite a bit of wood since last posting, I decided that my small 1" axle and trailer wheels aren't going to cut it (maybe some pun there)... I found some 16" pulley style band wheels on eBay with 1-1/2" mount sleeves that fit 1-1/2" shafts... I picked up a 1-1/2" cold rolled bar shaft at my local welding shop and it all seems to fit snugly... I'm heading out to Las Vegas for a few days, but when I get back, I plan to start the rebuild on the ole sawmill... Hopefully this will be the last time...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180122_164813_28800x45029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516669395)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180122_095138_28450x80029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516669482)
Also, just for the fun of it... My YouTube video of my sawmill walk around gets over 10,000 views a month and I have over 500 followers... Not sure how all that happened, but apparently I influenced a few people around the world to build similar to my mill... It's humbling and honestly couldn't have been done without the help from ya'll on here... Thanks, ya'll are a part of those numbers too...
do you have the link to your video? I've proilly watched it not knowing it was you.
Kwill
About 5 pages back and post number 808 there is a vidio of josh's mill.
Cheers
gww
Quote from: gww on January 23, 2018, 08:44:33 PM
Kwill
About 5 pages back and post number 808 there is a vidio of josh's mill.
Cheers
gww
thank ya
Thanks GWW, I plan to keep kicking it brother. I'm pretty excited about the future of my mill too, after the upgrades.
https://youtu.be/xbRF-0qxaBY
If it works, there's the video link. If this doesn't work, copy and paste it into a browser
Yeah Josh I had actually already watched the walk around video not knowing it was your mill. I like the way you did your track. Nice and simple.
I usually try to be efficient. Simple and easy but most effective.
Hey guys, i'm still alive over here... Just been busy with the new mill and work stuff and life period, but all is well... Figured i'd share some progress i've been making on the new mill...
The axles are 1-1/2" now, instead of 1"... The bearings are much closer to the wheel also, which reminds me, i'm using 16" pulleys with a "b" type rubber belt tight in the groove with a little sticking over the top... I have gained about 13 inches width with a [now] cutting width of 32 inches... I also raised my carriage frame to allow my mill to go higher for larger logs... I upgraded the lift/lower system with a rubber coated larger cable to handle the more weight... Most of my bolts have gone up 1.5 times the original size or twice in some cases... and I've tried to not cut corners this time around... So far, i'm happy with it and I think the improvements will be beneficial once i'm done and cutting wood...
Now for some pictures, cause reading is boring...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180225_192343_-_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519608694)
This is the overall mock-up of the mill and very close belt length, cut width, part placements, etc...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180214_104150_-_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519608638)
This is the new drive pulley assembled. The 3 groove pulley was a freebie and weighs about 40 pounds. lol I figure if I ever add something that needs a belt, I can just add onto this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180225_190949_-_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519608695)
I got all my electrical wires and distribution blocks ran and hooked up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180219_104714_-_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519608642)
Blade guide system. This is unfinished in these pictures. I'm still throwing around some ideas here, so I haven't finished these yet.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180206_094717_-_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519608628)
Final assembly of the alignment/idle axle system
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180220_133632_-_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519608652)
The alignment system installed - separate from the tension system, unlike before
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180224_145714_-_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519608681)
Engine mount, I decided to weld 3/16" X 1-1/2" tubing as my engine mounts to eliminate engine movement and vibration
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/20180221_114839_-_small.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519608674)
Taller carriage frame to be able to raise saw higher for larger logs
Thats lookin good....
Looking good Josh
Thanks, guys... I know a lot more now than I did on the first mill... I tried to not make the same mistakes again... I'm pleased so far...
Josh
Man, you did a lot of work. I can't wait to see you cutting again and to hear your take on the improvement.
Cheers
gww
Yes, gww, I have basically started over. New design and all. It's all bigger and stronger than before. I'm anxious to cut with it. It can only do better than the first one. Haha
Josh on your alignment idler piece when you tighten the all thread it swivels the pillow blocks and shaft?
Kwill, yes... It's harder to explain than draw, so here's a picture to explain how it "should" work.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/untitled~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519617957)
The moving plate is 3/8" plate steel. The 5/8" pillow block connections are threaded rod welded to the plate. That plate is completely removable when the axle and spring is removed. The all thread that aligns the wheel (I call it that back side of this assembly) is 3/4" ATR with a coupling nut on the end. This assembly weighs about 40 pounds alone. The thin white plate between the moving plate and tension arm/plate is actually a 1/8" cheap cutting board from Walmart. I bought 3 of them to use in movable areas to keep from having metal on metal binding... It's crazy how a less than $1 piece of plastic helps out. I hope I explained this well enough. My goal was to separate the alignment and tension on both axles. I wanted to release tension and not affect the alignment.
Josh,
That is a really nice setup there. There will be a lot of stress on that pivot point/axle. Is that at least a grade 8 bolt? One other thing to consider is maybe drilling and tapping a hole in the threaded coupler that you welded on to the plate for a brass screw. You would tighten that screw when the tracking is correct so it doesn't vibrate out of adjustment. Or if you can fit a jamb nut under the spring...
The only problem I see is the Zerks are on opposite sides ;)
That's a pretty nice setup. Will be following and waiting for another cutting video 8)
Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 26, 2018, 12:01:58 AM
Josh,
That is a really nice setup there. There will be a lot of stress on that pivot point/axle. Is that at least a grade 8 bolt? One other thing to consider is maybe drilling and tapping a hole in the threaded coupler that you welded on to the plate for a brass screw. You would tighten that screw when the tracking is correct so it doesn't vibrate out of adjustment. Or if you can fit a jamb nut under the spring...
The only problem I see is the Zerks are on opposite sides ;)
Ok, I honestly am not educated on bearings and how to properly install, etc... On the pillow block bearings, is that wrong or does it not matter which way they face? I really did wonder about that when putting them on... My thoughts on those, where to spread out the distance that the bearings touched the axles... I have the front one turned with the set screws forward (closest to wheel) and the back one turned backwards to give it the advantage of distance (set screws furthest away from wheel)...
The pivot point/axle is 1" solid steel bar. The sheer pressure should be confined to about a half inch area of the bar. I slightly drilled out a depression where the set screws screw in and used lock tite to keep the collars from moving. Fingers crossed, it holds...
The 3/4" threaded rod and welded on coupler nut is soooo tight. It cannot be turned by hand and takes a helper bar to turn it with a ratchet... It's a beast to move, but shouldn't have to be adjusted but once. Once it's set, it will stay...
Quote from: Kwill on February 26, 2018, 12:06:12 AM
That's a pretty nice setup. Will be following and waiting for another cutting video 8)
Thanks... I'm ready to cut some wood... Logs are piling up
So even with the pulleys you have to run them at a slight angle like the tires?
Quote from: Kwill on February 26, 2018, 12:48:51 AM
So even with the pulleys you have to run them at a slight angle like the tires?
I don't think I follow you... or maybe I do
as for the pulleys, I don't have my blades yet to actually tension them down, so not sure how much alignment I will need... They are pretty true right now, but with a bunch of tension, things might move a little, but not near as much as the pneumatic tires... They were a nightmare...
The bearings in your pillow block can be turned to face what ever way you want.
Quote from: mazdathumps on February 26, 2018, 12:27:32 AMOk, I honestly am not educated on bearings and how to properly install, etc...
I was just joking - My OCD was looking at the Zerks - they are more accessible facing out so you can get the grease gun on them.
I didn't take you wrong. Lol I was still curious that maybe there was something to your comment tho. Lol
allright guys, here I am again... I finished my build - no pics or videos yet... I cut some wood today - no pics of videos yet... I am very satisfied with the cuts. It was worth all the work... I am cutting straight, straight, straight all day... I cut some 12" pine boards at about 2 inches per second and some 3.75" cuts at about 4-5 inches per second and straight still... I changed up the laundry detergent blade lube for straight diesel... My belt tension system is functional but easily the weakest part on the mill, so I have a centrifugal clutch on order to replace the whole belt tension system... I'm done trying to get it to work right...
Anyways, that's the update...
On to another factor, the last cut of the day today, before entering the wood, my blade rode off the front of the wheel and has continued to run off since... Is it the diesel doing that? or is it an alignment issue between the two wheels? or is it something i'm not thinking of maybe? I'm lost right now... Nothing was changed or adjusted and I only have 0.3 hours on the blade (most of one log)
I would think even slippery wheels would still track right if adjusted right.
I'm running on donut spare tires. Twice when I dumped too much generic Lysol/water mix and the blade just jumped right off destroying one blade that was just run up to top rpm. I am just running water when I think it needs it (to keep the dust down a little). Most of my logs are pine and very wet. I'm not convinced that running diesel on rubber (including V-belts) is a good idea. It gets really slick.
IMHO, the ONLY reason to run diesel is if you are having sap build up on your bands or wheels. There are some that just keep some diesel in a pump sprayer to hit the blade with a light coat when running to clean them up.
hmm... Not sure about the diesel use either... It is pretty slick and oh my goodness, MESSY... I thought I had read some about some people using diesel... Maybe i'll try something else... I was just getting pretty bad pitch on my blade from the pine...
Josh
Some people run diesel. I have seen some that just have it drip on a rag or piece of felt that barily drags on the blade.
My saw will run off my tire. I use that fact to tension my blade. So I will put the tension as tight as I can with the motor at an idle and when the blade starts to creep forward, I will stop and give the motor some gas while watching the where the blade is on the tire. If it creeps forward when I increase the rpm, I will back off half a turn to a full turn on the tension adjustment. I then have the blade as tight as my mill will handle. The cause of the blade going forward on my mill is based to the beefyness of my mill. It is flexing too much but to go to so far with the tension.
I have a feeling with your mill (even with your bigger shafts) that you may still have a bit of flex. Even though you did not change anything, it would be an easy thing to check for by lowering your tension just a bit and seeing if it tracks like it did before you started having problims. One of your bolts holding your bearings may have had that much movement under presure. There is a lot of pressure on the mill when you have the blade fully tensioned.
Not saying this is it but it is easy to check.
I cut my first log in a while today. It has been on the ground going on 3 years. It was hard as a rock entering but cut like butter in the middle. The boards look good but that tells me that even though I can't see it, the wood is doudy and soft due to rot. I got about 8 or nine ten and a half inch one bys. I am going to dry them but have a feeling that they have been compermised strenght wise.
I never use any kind of fluid on any cutting but also have only cut about 5 pine logs in my life. Pine is easier then oak or hickory. I do keep a squirt bottle hanging where I push on the mill and have aimed at the blade and give it a squirt but have not used my wash system since my first few logs when I first built the mill. Some do use diesel though and some use dishsoap and water. I like dry enough that it was not worth it to me to have more then a squirt bottle (which I am not sure has not froze or if it even works now.
Good luck and strait cutting is good. Congradulations.
gww
Thanks, GWW... I do use the felt system directly touching the blade... It's flawless in my book...
Boy, I can bare down on that tension now, so maybe I am too tight... I didn't think I could get too tight, but maybe I am... It's just weird that it worked for every other cut until that one... At least it didn't come off mid-cut - that's no fun...
Overall, I'm far happier with this third build... It's a whole different day at the mill now... :) I enjoy cutting with this thing...
Good to share and hear about your cuts...
I am in the middle of my build as well (changed from tires to surplus pulleys like you). I've cut about an hour since changing over and I'm loving it so far. I need to update my thread.
One thing I found was I wanted to tighten to an extreme. I put so much tension that my pillow blocks were moving in the slots I had for adjustments. I even welded bolts to hold the front ones in place (keep them from moving inward) and the back ones moved (away from each other)
This caused the blade to come off the front. Then I got a digital caliper and connected to the blade to see how much "stretch" I had. The forum offered advice from a thread of about .005 in 6" on the blade. I was running double that easily. I loosened my tension and have cut straight boards for about an hours worth and no problem tracking the blade. Take this info for what it's worth (an hours worth of success).
Good luck!
P.s.
Can you explain your felt system to lube the blade? I just have a tank that drips on the blade.
Good advice man... Thanks
The felt thing (on mine) is just a small piece of landscape fabric, the fabric type - not plastic type... I folded it over several times to make a piece about 1-1/2" wide by about 6 plys or so, about 2-1/2" tall... I fabbed up a simple plate to hold it to my exsisting blade guide. I pinched the fabric between the blade guide and the fabbed metal piece... I drop it down to where it lays on the blade by about 1/8th"... It doesn't affect the teeth and brushes the entire width of the blade. On the top I have a plastic barb pushed down into the fabric and a small hose clamp around that... They other end of the barb is also a bard connected to the clear hose providing lube... It soaks the fabric and gravity does the rest...
I have an adjustable valve coming off my lube storage that allows me to adjust the flow rate...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44960/untitled6.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490061168)
This is the picture from my previously built sawmill, but it's pretty much the same now...
Josh
Nice picture.
Georgia
Hey man, thats great. An hour will turn into enough hours that you will be tired of it. I really like your set up. You probly would have been breaking more blades then needed had you not backed off the tension. Less is more as long as it cuts like you report. Did you use the clutch and how is your speed?
Cheers
gww
The clutch has worked fine. It seems to grab a 1/2" v groove belt just as it did the larger golf cart belt. It rides down lower in the clutch (giving me a smaller diameter drive pulley not sure exact diameter guessing 3-4"). We used a 12" driven pulley. I don't have a way to measure speed other than the calculator on the forum but I did play with the throttle some in my cut (no idea how many rpms). I really didn't notice much difference in my cut. Maybe I slowed my feed speed down?
I will hopefully finally get a chance to tinker with it this weekend. I'll try to take a video and post it.
Mazda
If your pillow blocks did move as mine did, it shouldn't be to hard to tell. I figured it out bc with my old setup I couldn't align my wheels (blade would track), tension the blade tight (blade would come off bc of flex in tires), loosen the blade some and the flex would go away and it would track.
New setup: once I tighten it down and the pillowblocks moved or slid (not flex), it wouldn't track even once I let tension off the blade. This was because it wasn't "going back in to place" it had permanently moved the placement of the pillow blocks.
Hope this makes sense.
Georgia
Sounds good and sounds like speed is probly close enough. When I had mine running way to fast, I couldn't keeps the bearings from going bad and my blades did not stay sharp as long. Yours sounds like it would be close to right and I bet the caculator says that also.
Your advice to josh
QuoteThis was because it wasn't "going back in to place" it had permanently moved the placement of the pillow blocks.
This is what I was thinking also.
I would love to see a vidio if you do one.
Cheers
gww
Ok guys, I started at the bearings and worked my way outward... All is co-planer and plumb and this and that (after tensioning blade)... So, I still had that blade drift off that one wheel (the drive wheel)... I eventually started eliminating things starting the with blade guides... I pulled them back out of the way and tensioned the blade back on the wheels... The blade runs dead center of the wheels and doesn't drift in any direction... This tells me that my blade guides are doing something funky to the blade... And i've set them up like "Cooks" describes to do... At this point, I don't have a clue, but rest-assured, I will find out and solve that issue... I have my daughter this weekend, so probably not doing much with the mill, but wanted to swing in and let ya'll know of my progress, or discovery, whichever makes more since... Thanks for the replies and suggestions as always, they help...
Just a thought, have you trued another blade, is it possible that yours got a little damaged when it came off?
Not sure how you are measuring tension on blade but if you are tensioning then putting 1/4" of down pressure. You are adding 1/2" more tension to blade. This was pretty substantial when I measured mine with caliper. I "stretched blade" .005 in 6". then put down pressure on blade. This changed reading from .005 to about .008. This is where I have been cutting (maybe an hours worth with no problem). I think this is probably on the tight side but idk.
I would put a straight edge across wheels without blade guides on. And then with blade guides putting 1/4" of down pressure and compare the tilt of your wheels. Again, take this for what it's worth. I'm a dumb pe coach that hasn't figured my own mill out yet.
When aligning the blade guide wheels, I remember something I read. The "leading" edge of the guide wheel flange, the side that sees the blade first, should be slightly further back then the trailing edge. To say it another way, IF the flange were to touch the back of the blade, the down wind side should touch before the upwind side. That is to keep the blade from wanting to ride up onto and over the flange. I'm only talking about 1/32" to 1/16" difference, so very slight.
IF, however, you have too drastic a difference, the guide would try to push the blade forward.
Another thought, the blade is supposed to be absolutely parallel to the log bunks, both across (by adjusting the amount of down pressure on each side) and front to back (by adjusting the tilt of the individual rollers).
Josh
I do not have more to add then starmac, georgia or ljohnsaw. It all seems like good advice to me.
Good luck and hope it goes well and that you tell us about it.
gww
My old mizer does not have a gauge, and I never thought about measureing it like you have, but what I do know is when I first started I was not putting enough pressure on it, I tightened it to where you would think is way to tight, but it sure cuts good like that, so I run it tight. I have broke a couple of blades, but I don't know if that has had anything to do with it, or if I just ran them too long or what.
Quote from: starmac on March 17, 2018, 01:24:53 AMI have broke a couple of blades, but I don't know if that has had anything to do with it, or if I just ran them too long or what.
If you are happy with what you are getting, that is the best evidence.
I do a lot of reading and also have run into quite a bit of issues with my mill being built out of junk. So I was fourced to do quite a bit of reading. Cooks web site has some tutorials about blades and guides and speed to motor and just a lot of things to read. Now they are trying to sell stuff too.
So some of my tips is based on what they have wrote as well as other places. I have broke about ten blades and never get the kind of board foot out of blades that some with hydrolic wood mizers get on here. So I go to cooks and read that smaller diamater pullys or wheels flex the blade more or if the blade rides its back against the roller it will break from the back, if it is dull and too tight it will break in the gullet and all these other little tips that do not mean anything if everything is going great. However, when you are having problims, it gives you avenues to try and fine tune.
Cheers
gww
Starmac, I didn't think to run the new blade, but I did visually inspect the one that came off... I may still try the new blade once I get the guides set up again and see if there's a difference between the two... Good advice
Georgia, I measure tension by pushing on the top or bottom of the blade until I feel it's tight enough to cut without flexing... No scientific method... I visited a Woodmizer mill and felt his tension and that's how I judge mine... With my pneumatic wheels, you could definitely tighten too tight and nothing you did would keep the blade on, so I get what you mean there...
ljohnsaw, I do remember the cooks instructions saying to leave about a business card thickness gap on the input side of the guide wheel (in my case, the left side of each guide going counterclockwise)... I did have them setup this way when all this happened... I'll have to pull up those directions again and start from scratch setting them guides up again... And as for the blade being parallel from front to back and left to right, we are there... I think i'm going to start by setting my guides up from a "new" position, that way I know it's done right...
I appreciate all the advice and I'm sure as I'm working on these guides, something will hit me that I might have forgotten or didn't check (including ya'lls advice)... haha I should have some time this week to tackle it again... I'm also starting a 20 x 20 shop and found out my permits are a packet, as if I was building a house... Stupid, but it is what it is... I told them I was just going to write homemade on the materials list, and she's like, "that's fine, we understand"... I was like, what the heck do I need to do all this paperwork for then... Anyways, we keep the wheels rolling around my house, so I will post as soon as I have newer results on the sawmill... Thanks again guys
8)
Hey guys, just checking in... What a busy year
Anyways... Long story short, I had a guy come out and look at my sawmill (who was thinking of building his own) and offered me a bit of money for mine, as is... He is a tinkerer like myself and wanted to use my mill and improve it as it is instead of building his... Well, I had a number in my mind that would determine whether i would keep it or not if the day ever came where someone wanted to buy it... He hit that number on the first offer, so I took it and he loaded it up... The sawmill is sold...
Am I sad about it? eghhh... Yes and no... Yes, because it was enjoyable to tinker on and perfect... No, because I really don't enjoy cutting the wood and loading/unloading myself... Also, another deciding factor in selling it was that I now have at least 2 other good friends who bought mills since I started building mine who have offered to cut a few slabs here and there for me at no cost to me... So, I will be taking them up on that offer if I ever need some slabs...
I, however, will be glad to offer any advise to anyone who wishes to pick my brain about my build or do's/don'ts on their build... I guess it's never out of your blood... Also, I could not have gotten anywhere close to a finished, working, mill without all of ya'lls help along the way... Thank you all, each of you!
Now, to address the issues I was last having on my mill... THe blade kept slinging off and I could not find the reason (after cutting a whole tree with no issues)... Well, on the day of the sale, I found my problem... A set screw had come loose on my swivel plate assembly and caused my two plates to loosen about a sixtenth of an inch... That was enough to cause a misalignment between the two band wheels and help that blade walk off the front... The buyer also noticed this when I did and agreed that that was the issue...
The sawmill is in good hands and I'm sure i'll make that hour trip to see it once he gets done tinkering on it... Heck, i might even bring him a log or two to cut for me... :D
Anyways, hope everyone has been good...
The same sort of thing happened to me with a CSM I had made.
So the question is.... what are you going to make now?
I am partially done building a bobber motorcycle... Once that's done, I plan to do some welding and wood working to sell...
That's not really exciting, but that's the plan so far... Also, considered getting into some CNC type stuff and powder coating
Thanks for the update Josh.
Cheers
gww
That should keep you entertained for a while. smiley_thumbsup