Woodlot road building - use or not use old logging roads?

[kwendt]

Our new land: abandoned farm with the front 20 ac field/barn... back 60 ac being mixed northern hard/soft woods. I was told it was 'Selectcut' in 2002. The land is a very long rectangle, about 900' of road and extending almost 4000' back.

We will be wanting to create/build a few sled trails, walking trails, and small roadways to access the very back where stands of sugar maple, pine, spruce and cedar are. My goals for the land: Recreational, wildlife management, low impact forestry, firewood, fence posts. We are not developing this land for a subdivision. No way, no how.

I am not a logger... but I did grow up maintaining the woods roadways on my families 300+ acre spread in the Maine mountains.

Here's my question: In building trails and roadways for woodlot access... would you recommend that I locate and use the old logging trails and landings if possible? Or best not for some reason?

Pros: I'm thinking, possibly they are compacted from the heavy equipment, somewhat cleared, and likely were cut through the 'easiest' aka fastest way into the back 60?

Cons: They provide fringe habitat for critters, wildlife access areas... or may be too haphazard/wandering, lack of drainage and culverts will be too hard to put in (compaction) when needed? Maybe there are other considerations? 

In older aerial photos, the logging roads are easy to spot... but most are just faint impressions from the air now. The land is sloped, glacial till, with lower areas of poor drainage (cedar and locust) and higher, well drained slopes with oak, birch, beech and maple. 

Thoughts?

Been on this site most of the afternoon... love it!

[Ljohnsaw]

Sounds like a nice piece of property!  From the pain I went through putting a short 600' road on my 10 acres, I'd say keep what is there, adding erosion control where needed.  But, without pictures or first hand look, a very hard call.

[Holmes]

 I am doing about the same thing on my land. Reclaiming the old cart paths 5000' to the back of my land then it turns into State Wildlife sanctuary. I started with trimming branches then cutting the trees out of the paths. I have since made the paths about 12' wide, my wife calls it Dana's Highway. 8) I am reclaiming every old cart path I find. This was last logged in 1936, I have the old contract that states the land owner will be paid $3.00 per thousand bf of stacked and stickered lumber. 8) 8).  I think the easiest place to start would be with the old skidder trails and see where  you end up .  Enjoy the adventure

[kwendt]

Sounds good... thanks for the weigh in. Yes, I'm excited... and while it's winter time... brrrrr! I'm spending enormous amounts of time on learning about things. Come spring, I'll be way to busy to read....even my watch! lol.

ljohn... I wish I could give you pictures... but I didn't take any of that section of the property. However, I CAN tell you that it's likely that the largest boulders were moved out of the way or worked around! That much was totally obvious. The overstory has all but closed in again.... so it will be an adventure to see where the roads actually go this spring.

And Holmes... thanks for the methodology. I'm not gonna attempt clearing a super highway... but something a UTV and trailer could manage would be nice! $3/thousand? Oh my!!! grin

Interestingly enough... I came across this info on Woods Access Road building... on Maine's .gov site!
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/stewardship/accessroads/accessroads.htm

I post it here in case it helps anyone else...  When I googled before... I didn't call em "Access Roads" lol.

[Holmes]

 My project started with a very good[ Stihl ] pole saw. Did a huge amount of limbing to open up the paths, then after a few years started clearing out the trees in the paths.

[thecfarm]

The old loggings roads are mostly pretty good. I would try to use them. I had my land cut a few times. They went with skidders and forwarders where I can not go with a tractor. I could go where they want,but I would of had to around the rocks and the uneven places.
Will the 1950 Fergie TO-20 be used on the roads? I am using some from the horses-oxens days.

[coxy]

I to would try and stay with the old roads as much as possible  it takes a lot of time to make new ones and if your spending time doing that  your not spending time having fun with your utv  :D  good luck     and we all would like pics of you progress  ;D

[jwilly3879]

By the way, Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

[kwendt]

Hi back folks! Ok the consensus is.... Use the old roads where possible. Check! I'll add that to my list of things for the Forestry Management Plan.

Oh, CFarm, the little Fergie will bush hog the more or less open section of fields, then it will pull a trailer around for branches, brush, logs... As I clear the fringes. Then change to the plow....deep rip the front 8 ac, lime, Add plow down red clover... Then after all that... it's off to the woods. Fun Fun! I don't know yet if I'll take the Fergie in the woods right away. I'll likely walk each section first, testing for soft spots, clearing the way. the TO has no roll cage so I don't want to get overbalanced! and if I get her stuck.... My Amish Nbr will have to pull me out with his Belgians!.... Whoops! I may be new... But I ain't stupid! 😮

Phew! Just thinking about it.... Makes want another coffee!

[thecfarm]

We use to load rocks onto a trailer behind the 1954 NAA,almost the same size as your Fergie,and put them into a wet hole. That worked for us. We would go in with a load of rocks and come out with a load of wood. Not that it matters,but if I was plowing,I would be picking rocks too.  :( I use to load the trailer with brush,than push,tip it off with a pitch fork off the side. That saved from handling each piece again.

[landscraper]

I saw in your "Cons" that you had listed difficulty in adding culverts due to the soil being compacted, and I'd say that assuming you intend to dig the trench for the culverts with a backhoe or excavator that you shouldn't worry about compaction, any proper machine should be able to dig through compacted soils just fine.  Bedrock or ledge is a completely different matter.   I have built miles upon miles of roads ranging from driveways to highways, and the number one advice I would give you is to make sure you get the water off and away from the road as quickly as reasonable.   Culverts, ditches, swales, waterways, underdrains, whatever it takes.  Cars go on a road,  water goes in a ditch.  People seem to get that mixed up for some reason.

[kwendt]

@landscraper  , lol... A good thing to remember!  Love it. I won't really know the extent of what I'll be dealing with til May or June... When I can get back to the back and see just how much ponding I get and where.

Like the rocks thing too... lol... Most of the rocks are out of the fields but there looks to be plenty everywhere else!

[beenthere]

Most of the rocks are out of the fields but there looks to be plenty everywhere else!

:D :D

Rocks "grow" back. A bad habit that they have.  ;D

[John Mc]

I know you said you were not interested in building "highways", but here are a couple of thoughts on going a bit wider on your trails:

1) If you make your trails the minimum width needed for whatever activity you plan, you will be constantly having to go back through and trim back branches. Make them a bit wider than you need, and you'll get some use out of them before you have to go back and trim. Most of my trails are now at least twice the width of my tractor and brush hog, in part for this reason. In addition to not getting whacked in the face by brush every time I'm on the trail, it makes it easier to manuver logs and trailers through the area when I'm getting firewood. 

Despite starting out with a target of mainly footpaths, I've found I like a bit of open space, since so much of my land is closed canopy. If you want to avoid the "highway" look, just put a couple of bends in your trail here and there, or occasionally leave a spot where the trail necks down.

2) Trails can be an improvement to wildlife habitat diversity, especially if you have a lot of continuous canopy cover in a mature forest. By opening things up here and there, and letting sunlight down to the forest floor, you can get some shrubby, brushy growth going which provides winter browse for deer and cover for other critters. I keep some places where my trails get wider than 20 ft, allowing the sunlight in, and creating some of this "edge" habitat. I'll vary where the mowed section of trail goes through this wider corridor, letting the rest of it grow up to just shy of the limits of my brush hog, then I'll mow that part, and let the old path grow up a bit. (And when it comes time for a timber harvest, I'll have a corridor that's easy to clear for the larger equipment to get through).

[kwendt]

Awesome idea, John. 20-25 feet for tractor, possibly pickup, and little clearings, landings, bends, etc. Like it. I may also have to create ditches in some places for runoff. The deer are running through the overgrown fields, and I'll want to create habitat and cover for them towards the back...

[John Mc]

The main point I was making is if you have a lot of unbroken canopy and want to create some diversity of habitat for wildlife, is to try to create areas where there is a small clearing (even a wide trail can help), and to manage for a gradual transition from cleared area to mature woods. That brushy transition is a great habitat for a lot of different wildlife.

I belong to an organization here in Vermont known as Vermont Coverts. It's a nonprofit dedicated to educating landowners on things they can do on their property to promote a healthy forest and support wildlife, and how to integrate those things with other goals such as managing for timber value, recreation, etc.  It was started by the UVM forestry extension 30 years ago, but eventually spun off on its own. A number fo other states have similar programs. Some called "Coverts" programs (pronounced KUH-verts, not CO-vert like the CIA). I don't know if Maine has one or not, but I can find out, if you are interested.

[kwendt]

Yes, thank you.... and yes... I understood that's what you were suggesting. I was already planning on creating wildlife habitat areas... but hadn't thought to intentionally use/widen the canopy breaks of the old skidder roads for that. For all that I grew up on 300 acres of woods, I'm a newbie when it comes to good forest management. When the district forester comes out to walk my place, I'll be SURE to ask him about that, I bet he can likely point out the better spots for such things. And whatever Forester I eventually hire, will hopefully help further with that.

Yes, I would be highly interested in learning more... about Coverts.... not the CIA.... lol.  And if you know of any other organizations that might be good.... I'm all ears! Meanwhile, I'll google over to Vermont Coverts.

Thanks again...

The main point I was making is if you have a lot of unbroken canopy and want to create some diversity of habitat for wildlife, is to try to create areas where there is a small clearing (even a wide trail can help), and to manage for a gradual transition from cleared area to mature woods. That brushy transition is a great habitat for a lot of different wildlife.

I belong to an organization here in Vermont known as Vermont Coverts. It's a nonprofit dedicated to educating landowners on things they can do on their property to promote a healthy forest and support wildlife, and how to integrate those things with other goals such as managing for timber value, recreation, etc.  It was started by the UVM forestry extension 30 years ago, but eventually spun off on its own. A number fo other states have similar programs. Some called "Coverts" programs (pronounced KUH-verts, not CO-vert like the CIA). I don't know if Maine has one or not, but I can find out, if you are interested.

[John Mc]

I've asked my contact at VT Coverts for info on similar programs in Maine (I know NH, MA, CT, and NY all have similar programs. Some have several to choose from).

You might try contacting the Maine Forest Service - they probably have some good info, as well as can refer you to other organizations focused on private landowners and wildlife.

Your consulting forester, or a county forester could probably also provide some good leads for interesting organizations in Maine.

[kwendt]

Maine doesn't have a covert organization, but does seem to have grouse, and other game habitat organizations...at least occurring to Google. There a Maine Tree Farm org., and quite a few land trusts, forestry organizations. Perhaps we should add a section to the forum that lists, by state, province or country (lots of non-us folks here too)... Organizations that members have found helpful? (Of course, FF isn't endorsing them).. We would all have to pitch in to help populate it. @Jeff  ...Thoughts?

[beenthere]

Thoughts?  Mine... what we have is just fine and working well. ;)

i.e. "it ain't broke"    ;D

[Jeff]

Maine doesn't have a covert organization, but does seem to have grouse, and other game habitat organizations...at least occurring to Google. There a Maine Tree Farm org., and quite a few land trusts, forestry organizations. Perhaps we should add a section to the forum that lists, by state, province or country (lots of non-us folks here too)... Organizations that members have found helpful? (Of course, FF isn't endorsing them).. We would all have to pitch in to help populate it. @Jeff  ...Thoughts?

I don't promote or encourage lists of links on the website for a few reasons, but the first is this. It adds to the work load to maintain a links page or list of any sort, especially for organizations and government agencies as they are always changing addresses or removing pages. There is nothing more aggravating then clicking on a link to find out that is no longer valid. There is nothing more aggravating than a website that has a list of links where even one of them is no longer valid.  You can go back through this forum over the years and see where someone has linked to something outside of the Forestry Forum, click on the link, and get a not found. When I find those, I try to correct them and that is always time consuming.

Google is your friend when you need something that applies locally to you. That's what they do is index links, and many times those links on google, when concerning Forest Product industry or tree stuff, leads you right back here.

[Stephen1]

don't worry about the old Fergie, we have a one and she goes anywhere we point it, starts every time we ask. we still have the 6 volt starter on it and we converted to a 12 volt system a long time ago. We have used it for our bush for 40+ years, plowing snow all winter, from syrup season,  in waist deep snow with chains when we didn't plow, to hauling logs out of the bush. just be carefull she doesn't pull a wheelie when asked to pull to heave a log,     ask us how we know

[John Mc]

Thoughts?  Mine... what we have is just fine and working well. ;)

i.e. "it ain't broke"    ;D

I agree that the Forestry forum is a fantastic resource, but there are times when talking to someone live, or participating in an in-person workshop is more beneficial than internet research. Likewise, the network of people on FF is fantastic, but it complements - not replaces - the network of interesting and helpful people I've found through various organizations operating in my area (in fact, I've referred a number of my local contacts to the FF).

[kwendt]

I don't promote or encourage lists of links on the website for a few reasons, but the first is this. It adds to the work load to maintain a links page or list of any sort, especially for organizations and government agencies as they are always changing addresses or removing pages.

Google is your friend when you need something that applies locally to you. That's what they do is index links, and many times those links on google, when concerning Forest Product industry or tree stuff, leads you right back here. :)

Well, that makes perfect sense. After all, Google IS how I found FF! Plus there is a perfectly adequate search tool here as well, sending me back to posts with discussions about the topic I'm looking for. :-)

Thanks for the explanation.

[John Mc]

I don't know much about them, but there is SWOAM (Small Woodland Owners Association of Maine). Might be worth checking them out, or maybe someone on here knows about them.