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Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?

Started by John Mc, November 30, 2017, 01:30:57 PM

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John Mc

Chubby - thanks for the link. I looked at the Farma offerings and I'd love to own one, but I'm afraid they are just too big for what we need. We'd be happy with a 3 ton capacity (and could live with 2.5 ton payload). I had actually contacted someone asking if any smaller units were planned for the future, but was told that is not in your plans.

Any chance you guys are going to be at the Northeast Forest Products Equipment Expo in Essex Jct, Vermont on May 11-12? I'm going to be checking out equipment there, if we haven't already made the leap. It's usually quite a show.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Skeans1

Quote from: John Mc on December 09, 2017, 11:08:46 PM
Chubby - thanks for the link. I looked at the Farma offerings and I'd love to own one, but I'm afraid they are just too big for what we need. We'd be happy with a 3 ton capacity (and could live with 2.5 ton payload). I had actually contacted someone asking if any smaller units were planned for the future, but was told that is not in your plans.

Any chance you guys are going to be at the Northeast Forest Products Equipment Expo in Essex Jct, Vermont on May 11-12? I'm going to be checking out equipment there, if we haven;t already made the leap. It's usually quite a show.
It's cool show I've been to it once in the early 2000's is a different kind of show then what we get here in the PNW is nice seeing some smaller equipment for once.

John Mc

Quote from: Skeans1 on December 10, 2017, 12:55:24 AM
Quote from: John Mc on December 09, 2017, 11:08:46 PM
Chubby - thanks for the link. I looked at the Farma offerings and I'd love to own one, but I'm afraid they are just too big for what we need. We'd be happy with a 3 ton capacity (and could live with 2.5 ton payload). I had actually contacted someone asking if any smaller units were planned for the future, but was told that is not in your plans.

Any chance you guys are going to be at the Northeast Forest Products Equipment Expo in Essex Jct, Vermont on May 11-12? I'm going to be checking out equipment there, if we haven;t already made the leap. It's usually quite a show.
It's cool show I've been to it once in the early 2000's is a different kind of show then what we get here in the PNW is nice seeing some smaller equipment for once.

Yeah. I've been several times, since I live about 30 miles from the Essex Junction location. It always draws a good crowd.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

chubby

Quote from: John Mc on December 10, 2017, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: Skeans1 on December 10, 2017, 12:55:24 AM
Quote from: John Mc on December 09, 2017, 11:08:46 PM
Chubby - thanks for the link. I looked at the Farma offerings and I'd love to own one, but I'm afraid they are just too big for what we need. We'd be happy with a 3 ton capacity (and could live with 2.5 ton payload). I had actually contacted someone asking if any smaller units were planned for the future, but was told that is not in your plans.

Any chance you guys are going to be at the Northeast Forest Products Equipment Expo in Essex Jct, Vermont on May 11-12? I'm going to be checking out equipment there, if we haven;t already made the leap. It's usually quite a show.
It's cool show I've been to it once in the early 2000's is a different kind of show then what we get here in the PNW is nice seeing some smaller equipment for once.

Yeah. I've been several times, since I live about 30 miles from the Essex Junction location. It always draws a good crowd.

Yes absolutely we'll be there. We were there in 2016 and it was alot of fun so we've decided to double the size of our booth in the spring. We'll have a bunch of cool new things as well as some free goodies for forum members (might even be a few cold ones in the cooler for those who can handle Candian beer  8) )


 

AnvilRW

I bought a used one of these for about $6K.  Works pretty good but it can be a little janky in operation when grapple is near capacity especially if the trailer is empty.  You just have to mind what you're doing and how you're set up.  I think the track width needs widening for my terrain but its narrowness can be a plus.  The bunk length will take an 8-footer but I've had 12s on it as long as you keep it hooked up to your tow vehicle.

http://www.grpanderson.com/en/descriptive-sheet/?id=8276
"A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us."

AnvilRW

Another idea for you: I bought an old New Holland hay wagon running gear locally for $250, dirt cheap but needed tires.  It's 20' long and the length is adjusted by changing the length of the center connecting pipe.  It's four wheel, front steer, has a 10K load capacity.  Just needed to put some bolsters on it and it's good to go.  Nice because with no tongue weight or landing gear, you can just park it where you want it to load it up and then haul it off.  With the self-loading trailer you have to stay hooked up to it.  Since I do my skidding with a CTL, I just skid to the trailer and then load the log directly.  If I use the self-loader, it's a two step operation.  If I have room for the modded hay wagon, it's faster work.
"A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us."

mike_belben

Do the have a parking brake of any sort?  Ive been kicking the hay wagon idea around but none have come my way.  Theres a stripped motor home chassis near my house that ive considered haggling for to put bunks and a drawbar then pull behind my dozer
Praise The Lord

Puffergas

The tongue that slides is easier to hook up. Seen them with brakes but never parking brakes. Never seen an old one with any brakes.

Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

TKehl

Mike, I thought you had a kiln full of "parking brakes" drying.   ;D  :D

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/39545

That motor home chassis would be heavier than a travel trailer or mobile home frame.  IE, it should do the job. 

Don't guess your dozer has a 3 point on the back.  Makes moving tounge heavy pintle hitch trailers real easy.   ;) 

If not, Mother Earth News had an article on using a car frame as a hay wagon including tying a tounge to the tie rods for steering.

https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/hay-wagon-zmaz76mazhar

The best tongues have a slide extension that can be unlocked and pulled forward to hitch, then back the tractor up to hit a spring loaded pin to lock position, then drive off.  Always made sure that wagon was my lead before we got a gooseneck hay trailer as wagons are harder to move when loaded and can be a real pain to hook up loaded without a spotter.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

mike_belben

I wish it did have a 3pt but dozer only has a drawbar for now.  And i broke the kiln again so i guess my parking brakes will be wet!
Praise The Lord

AnvilRW

My parking brakes look a lot like tire chocks.
"A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us."

Puffergas

You could make a trailer or a wagon out of an old truck that has air brakes. Maxi Cans (spelling ?) makes a good parking brake. But an air compressor would be needed.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II


wisconsitom

As always, sorry for dredging up the past with this old thread but the query is applicable to my question;. I too would like a forestry trailer, to go along with my CUT.  That thing has just 25 horses inside, and spins a pto at 540.

Now just take money out of it-l don't have much anyway-but also cost-effectiveness versus other ideas- I just want one😆.  Question is what makes can be pto- driven?  Can't make out from most websites other than Farmi-they offer it for sure- if this is a common thing.  Please keep in mind, application is nearly 100 percent early-stage plantation thinning.

Any sense in looking at Chinese offerings?

Final question, I've come to think that with my tractor, and such a trailer, a winch and a couple snatch blocks, I should be able to both remove whole rows, as well as remove individual stems to where they can be picked up.  Think pine, spruce, larch.  Anyone see any holes in my theory?  Thnx
Ask me about hybrid larch!

John Mc

I has forgotten all about this thread. I was the one who started it a little over 4 years ago.

Not too long after that, I found a used Metavic M95 loader on one of their 13RF trailers. It had about 50 hours on it and was in great condition. It had the self powered hydraulics option, and the hydraulic winch option. There is no hydraulic assist available on this particular model, but I believe they do offer it on others.

The previous owner was concerned about having his small pickup (Tacoma) and +/- 30 HP Kubota tractor pushed around on his hilly property when loaded, so he had them add electric brakes. His truck already had a brake controller. He added a cheap automotive brake controller to his tractor, which he ran manually by the lever on the controller (since a tractor does not have a brake light circuit to trigger the controller). The controller was connected via plugs to his tractor's electrical system. He would remove the controller when not in use.

My tractor is basically the New Holland equivalent of his Kubota, and I also own a Tacoma. I've used it behind both. Unless I'm operating on dry, flat ground, I have my studded "Euro-style" chains on the rear wheels of the tractor. They seem to have enough stopping power that I don't get pushed around. I would not operated on hills without the chains, unless I was on nice trails with moderate slopes. I have not hooked the brake controller up on my tractor yet. I keep hoping to find an option for the controller that is weather-proof, so I'm not constantly worried about taking it off or otherwise protecting it from rain or snow.

With the deal I got on a good used forwarding trailer, I dropped the idea of a group purchase. I'm glad I did. Managing that was likely to be complicated, and I don't want to risk some good friendships by owning an expensive piece of equipment together.

In this photo, it was connected to the trailer itch on my logging winch. Typically, I connect it directly to the tractor's draw bar. It makes for a bit more compact set up when operating in the woods.

 
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

wisconsitom

Thanks John.  Good on ye finding a used unit.  I just don't see them come up used much.

Glad you got your situation worked out.
Ask me about hybrid larch!

John Mc

I stumbled across some CANAG forwarding trailers when I was dropping off my logging winch at a forestry equipment repair shop not far from me. He had a few different models in sizes suitable for towing behind a large ATV on up to a compact or larger tractor. I had never heard of them before, despite the fact that they are just few hours away from me between Montreal and Quebec.

Canag Farm Technology click on the brochures link near the top right, and scroll way down on that page.

Brochure does not mention hydraulic drive. They seemed lighter weight than my Metavic trailer, but well made.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

John Mc

Quote from: wisconsitom on January 28, 2022, 02:51:30 PM
Thanks John.  Good on ye finding a used unit.  I just don't see them come up used much.

Glad you got your situation worked out.
I got lucky. He was just a couple hours down the road from me.
The only used ones I've seen for sale other than this one are just about beat to death.

I'm not sure what your soils and slopes are like, but so far in just over 3 years of use, I have not really had a need for the hydraulic drive. I stay out of the woods with my equipment anyway when things are wet and soft. I really don't want to tear up the trails and start erosion happening on the hills. If you don't have the option of waiting for good conditions, I could see where the hydraulic drive would be handy.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

wisconsitom

Thanks bud.  I'll look at CANAG.

Like you, I will have the option of staying out of the woods when conditions get soft.  My slopes are gentle, although we're in a hilly area.  Any unit I'll ever have will be used for what amounts to "hobby logging", me managing my own stands so as to allow for best growth of leave trees.  I'm already 65 so even though I move around pretty good, most I'll be looking at is first thinning.  Rapidly growing stuff, planted just back in '13.

I can probably get by without too much fancy trailer drive wheels.  Big thing for me is I have that pto just sitting there.  I'd like to use it!

Ask me about hybrid larch!

barbender

I've seen cable jammer loaders on small forestry trailers pulled behind tractors. As much as I would love a hydraulic unit, if a guy is handy and can find an old jammer (scrap yard) that would be an economical option.
Too many irons in the fire

mike_belben

If youve got a decent junkpile and basic skills a cable jammer is pretty easy.  I dont think i left the yard to put mine together.  Amazon dropped off the tongs, 500amp contactor, anderson connector and wireless remote.  I had everything else on hand.  

Pipe over pipe for the crane works fine. Just grease, no bearings.  You dont swing it loaded anyway, it gets positioned then you lock it in place and winch to it.

  I can safely move a cord of oak at a time with 26hp 2wd on rolling ground.  With a loader and 4wd to keep the nose down probably 2 cord. I have no issue with horsepower at all, will lug out in 6th but wheelie at the first hill.  Creek crossings are a challenge too.  The tractor crosses, trailer gets into the hole and then tractor cant tug it up and out.  4wd probably do it. 


















Those are 15ft by 10" WO on bottom.  They make it wanna unhitch.  Next one will be pintle.




Praise The Lord

47sawdust

Mike,
Very nice build,being handy is a good paying job and you can stay home.
 Best regards
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

g_man

Very nice Mike !   What size square tube did you use on that ? Do you think you could build that off of a small Farmi winch or would the be to much clutch slipping trying to control the cable ??





gg

mike_belben

Ive never tried it with a friction type winch but i bet its a good way to get injured.  The lowering down really needs to be in a controlled manner.  I am using an 8k and it could probably snap the main post.  The comealong is a fuse so that it doesnt wreck the structure.

i bet a 4500 could do it with short cable to make more advantage on the spool diameter.  

The tubing is 2x2 inside a larger square like receiver, from a bigrig car carrier trailer i cut up years ago but it is only in compression.  The chain or cable that makes the top cord where i am using a comealong is in pure tension.  The pipe mast is the only one with a bending moment.  This is not at all like the dynamics of an engine hoist and doesnt need to have a big diameter lower cord. 2x2 is fine at 3/16s.  


A swivel end pulley is important for an anchored mast. A straight pulley will require a swinging jib that is completely free to follow the cable or itll derail over the pulley shoulder.  But a swinging jib follows the countour of the land and flails out to the side like a car door on a steep shoulder. you have to manually move things you cant manually move with that system which is why they have power slew at that point.  It is better to be able to position and constrain the mast where you need it, and unconstrain the swivelling pulley.  


The longer the mast the better, but then the more it wanta to torque and flip the trailer, requiring bigger outriggers.  If the mast is short its strong but them it pulls logs under thr trailer before it tries to raise them and now youre stuck
 These things dont push logs away very well at all. Some of the ones i load cant be moved by hand really at all once they jam under the trailer


Youve got to also be able to raise and lower the pulley as the load gets higher.  Its easier than heaving but its not a real efficient way to load compared to any other machine.  This one step over squatting down and picking wood up. I dont have 4 spare strongmen on call so this is what i do.  The only advantage it has over a hydraulic crane is reach.  40 foot away isnt a big deal if its lined up right and doesnt snag.  

Travelling through the woods to each log only works with tiny stuff.  Bigger wood that requires outriggers is better staged in a piling or fed to the parked trailer.  setting up outriggers then breaking down to move for every log adds 5 more minutes.  It is more efficient to stage clusters of logs at clearings where the trailer can pull in right next to or perpendicular to the pile and be flat or downhill of the pile.  Loading uphill is harder.   loading from the end is not possible. Youll just winch it under the "tailgate" and have to pull forward to get off it. You are always sideloading, either parallel or perpendicular
Praise The Lord

John Mc

That's a nice set-up, Mike. I wish I had those design and fabrication skills. (I can stick two piece of metal together, but I don't trust myself in high load situations or when safety is a big concern.)

I was going to ask what size winch you used, but see you already answered that. Is your winch line doubled through a snatch block, or is it a single line pull?

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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