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Telephone poles

Started by Camp Run Farm, April 10, 2005, 08:07:23 AM

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Camp Run Farm

Does anyone have any information or ideas on cutting telephone poles for fence posts?   Other than the obvious problem of nails etc in the pole are there other problems with cutting, will it create problems with the mill?  Will the creosote cause a problem?

I just bought a new Wood-Mizer and I am not interested in cutting anything that will damage the mill.
I cut my first oak log yesterday, ohhhhhh soooooo much fun....!!

Thanks,

Ed

Jeff

A similar question was posed here>> Sounds like hte guys DONT like to saw up poles. https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=6532.0
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

Sawing treated wood can be a false economy.  Pressure treatment, and creosote too, will not got through the heart wood too good, if at all.   When you saw open a treated pole you are exposing the untreated wood. 

I also don't want the chemicals in my body.  That creosote will burn like the sun and the CCA is an arsenic compound that I don't want in my lungs. 

The sawdust from the sawing of the poles has to go somewhere.  It will contaminate the ground and you can't burn it.  If the right authorities find that you have a piles of sawdust from treated wood, they can put you out of business with the costs of cleaning up the soils.  There are some horror stories told around here of folks who had to dig the dirt away and send the dump trucks to Texas where the only cleansing  place used to be.   Then they had to buy new dirt to replace it.  It doesn't happen to everyone but I wouldn't want it to happen to me.

SwampDonkey

I was also thinking of the ramifications Tom has stated.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Buzz-sawyer

No it wont harm your mill. The creosote is more of an oil based /tar, that if anything lubricates.
I would say, to put plastic down befor you cut if you like to use dust for animals.
If you are sawing western cedar poles they are weather resistent, and many older ones arent even treated above ground. If you are not sawing these on a comercial basis, just a few orders here and there , you should be able to get it done.
I have sawyer buddy, who has a MOUNTAIN of creosote dust 3 stories tall...hes still sawing....but I wonder what he will ever do with that stuff?
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

sawguy21

One of my customers wanted a saw and ripping chain to mill treated poles for a house and barn.  ::) Used poles are cheap and straight but...
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

SwampDonkey

They banned creasoted poles here 20 years ago, but they still had copper arsonate poles and now I think they are banned (not sure there). Can't buy copper arsenate treated lumber anymore unless it's old stock.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ernie

SwampDonkey

What treatment is both legal and preferred in your neck of the woods, Here in NZ CCA is by far the most common.

Thanks

Ernie
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

SwampDonkey

Currently, all our poles are copper arsonate, but it was recently announced that copper arsonate is no longer in use for lumber at least. The industry is switching to 'alkaline copper quat' I believe.

http://www.treatedwood.com

News Item concerning a company having to make the switch to alternative treatment

http://www.stella-jones.com/welcome_eng.htm

http://www.marwoodltd.com/prod4.htm
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

leweee

Telephone poles.....aren't they the state tree of North Dakota ???
just another beaver with a chainsaw &  it's never so bad that it couldn't get worse.

Mark M

U-betcha!

I've sawed some nice cedar poles and like them. They don't appear to have any creosote in them but they are very old.

SwampDonkey

It's been 30 years since we had cedar poles here, they've all been cut and used for kindling wood. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Kirk_Allen

I have about 20 poles left to cut of which at least half of them are creasote treated full lenght.  I cut several today for 4x4 fence posts for the Chicken house remodel I'm doing for my wife.  I make sure I seperate the sawdust from my other sawdust and then I burn it.  I also burn the slabs.  Not sure why they dont want you to burn it but for what little of it I mess with I have had no problems. 

I was surprised with the ones I cut today because as Tom pointed out, most of the time the treatment does not go to the heart.  These three poles today were soaked clean through AND THEY WERE HEAVY.

UNCLEBUCK

Since we on the topic of poles , can anyone tell me if I can put soaking green white oak 6x6 poles directly into sandy soil for a pole barn small garage type building . I had a poplar pole give out after about 20 years but wondering what else I can do otherwise they going in the ground and I wont worry about it .
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Corley5

The Dept of Enviro Quality got on a local guy for having a pile of old creosote treated railroad ties.  Something about groundwater contamination ::)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Rockn H

From what I've sawed you need a liberal amount of water with soap on the blade.  The creosote is worse than pine sap, and will dull the blade quicker.  Also wear long sleeves as the dust may irritate your skin if you're out sawing all day.  From different discussions on other sites it seems there are different methods used to pressure treat poles.   For example, here you can purchase post that are fully treated or you can get'em treated only an inch or so.  I'm sure someone will clearify this.  Thanks in advance.

SwampDonkey and Corley5, I always find it interesting to see how different areas vary.  Here the utility co. leave the old creosote poles laying for the land owner to get rid of, and I forget the name of the town, its around Shreveport La., they are still cranking out as many creosote poles as they can.  Locally we are going to CCA  for the most part, still a few creosote though.

Minnesota_boy

Kirk,
If the poles are treated only with creosote oil, burning them shouldn't be too much of a problem other than the black smoke that people object to.  If they are treated with CCA, that is Chromium Copper Arsenate and will release arsenic to the air when burned.  You really don't want to do that.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

beenthere

Interesting how creosote ties can lay on the ground for miles and miles around the country and the world (supporting the railroad tracks with one about every 2') and not be an 'environmental' problem (including the creosote treated pilings at every dock and pier the world around) ??? ??? ::)  But stack em up and suddenly they are a enviro problem. 

I think it is just something else that we are being led to believe we should be 'afraid' of, and the hype that goes with it as well.

Burning CCA treated, according to the 'history' has to do with the arsenic compound(s) that end up in the ashes, and I didn't understand it was 'released' into the air. 
Penta was great, but an incident in Michigan where some raw 'penta' was mixed into cattle feed (the initial hype had the cows eating the penta treated posts in their barn) contaminating their milk, caused it to be banned, un-necassarily IMO.

Sorry to sound so cynical here.   I think being careful with any chemical, is smart.   
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Buzz-sawyer

Beenthere
I have to agree with you ...we live in a fearful, legalistic, and hypercondriac society.
I am amazed at the endless string of comercials featuring the next super pill that will make my life so good.
The latest court case . regarding some outrageous claim that McDonalds caused someone to become ill or fat.
Now, I am grateful for creosote, and all the chemicals we have available to improve our lives...NO I dont want to bath in it.......but It has helped make our world better.
You make an excellent point about the hundreds of millions of treated ties spread out across our nation......the key is there is little beurocratic benefit in hassling railroads ,they have STRONG lobbies in congress..Joe down the street with a stack of 50 does not.
QUITE frustrating to see the in equity of it all.
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Rockn H

Buzz-sawyer, Beenthere   I agree with ya, chemicals should be treated with care, not fear.  It seems our society, sometimes, is adopting the herd effect.  One starts running, the rest of the herd runs too,   They don't know why, other than the first one told them to. ;)  And all these new pills, do you listen to the possible side affects?  I think I had rather just keep the illness,  sounds better than the cure sometimes. ;D   Just an after thought: Has anyone thought about treated landscape timbers?  They are meant to be laid on the ground, maybe even for a small vegetable garden.  Are they outlawed in any areas? ???

WeeksvilleWoodWorx

Rockn H,

Yep the CCA has been outlawed for consumer use. Try to find some at a box store ;D Everything is supposed to be ACQ now, except for marine construction and telephone poles.

Brian
Brian - 2004 LT40HDG28 owner.

chet

Quote from: WeeksvilleWoodWorx on April 11, 2005, 07:27:35 PM
Rockn H,

Yep the CCA has been outlawed for consumer use. Try to find some at a box store ;D Everything is supposed to be ACQ now, except for marine construction and telephone poles.

Brian

Brian,
Check out da following link for a list of permitted uses of CCA treated materials. It is quite long, and some of the permitted uses will surprise you.   :) 
woodtreaters.com
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

etat

Thanks for posting that link Chet and clearing that up.  I use and have used a lot of pressure treated and that is pretty much the information I found when I first heard they was thinking about outlawing it. What I've noticed is the new kind at the box stores but I also knew I was, at least at this time, still able to get CCA treated wood at a real lumber yard.  So far at this time I can still buy it with no questions asked but I don't know how long that will last.

I hope the new stuff doesn't turn out like the fake pressure treated stuff they were selling 10 or 15 years or so ago, particularly landscape timbers and fence posts  that wouldn't last until the water got hot without rotting.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

WeeksvilleWoodWorx


Quote

Brian,
Check out da following link for a list of permitted uses of CCA treated materials. It is quite long, and some of the permitted uses will surprise you.   :) 
woodtreaters.com
Quote

I guess I over-generalized a little :)

We used to have two CCA plants here local, till I got a mill that is, now the closest is 150 Miles >:( >:( There is a LOT of bulkheading going oin around here and both local plants switched to ACQ.

Brian
Brian - 2004 LT40HDG28 owner.

babylogger

well if you want them that bad get me a nissan truck and i can hit it a break it in exactly the same 3 piece lengths....and it will only cost you 7000.00 like it did me! sorry it was supposed to be a funny! :D
love logger

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