iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Solved: Tulip Poplar

Started by Don P, June 03, 2002, 11:30:37 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Don P

A name I've heard given to several trees, this is ours.


bjorn

poplar, tulip poplar, yellow poplar, liriodendron tulipera (something like that).

Don P

That's it Bjorn 8), the latin is actually liriodenron tulipifera :P(yaa, you made me go to the books :D).
The reason I posted the pic (aside from the pretty blooms) is up north aspen is often called popple or poplar. Not a big deal normally, but I and others have posted about using poplar for dimensional framing. Its strength is close to southern yellow pine. Aspen (bigtooth and trembling) is rated with the northern species, along with white pine, red pine, western red cedar, ponderosa pine, eastern hemlock, balsam poplar.
Not a reason to avoid the other woods but a reason to know exactly what you've got sometimes, a yellow poplar 2x8 joist can span 2 feet further under the same load than an aspen joist of the same size :o.

bjorn

Where can I find span tables for tulip poplar? as I am cutting alot of this wood for my barn.  Thanks.

Don P

Hi Bjorn,
sorry to have dropped out for a couple of days, we travelled down to her Mom's. I'm starting to get the hang of this web tv.
I'm carrying a couple of engineering, span and code books back up with me and have more stuff already at the job in IL. Long story short, I don't have a table for poplar but am comparing design values from several sources (Fb and e values), doing the math then confirming by comparing the results to tables for species with similar design values that I do have tables for. I'll be back up there in about a week. IM me if that will work and I'll show you what I've got.  
In VA be sure to answer questions appropriately. This is strictly an ag building you are proposing, strictly for farm use...there will be NO other uses...been there paid for that permit :D

Corley5

So that's what tulip poplar looks like 8) 8)  The leaves look similar to a maple but different.  They do have pretty flowers.  What's there northern limit?
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Ron Scott

I know its in West Virginia.
~Ron

swampwhiteoak

Tuliptree range:
Eastern - Atlantic coast
Western - Around the Illinois state line, little piece of Missouri, and part of Louisiana
Northern - South Central Michigan and New York state
Southern- Gulf of Mexico and south central florida

In my not so humble opinion the best tulip grows in W.Va, Va, and eastern KY.  Basically the southern alleghennies and the cumberland plateau.

woodmills1

we dont have it in NH but i do remember some fine specimins from my WVa days.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Ron Scott

One could almost hear it growing on the Monongahela National Forest in West Virginia. The Monongahela Decision against clear-cutting stopped much of its harvest however.
~Ron

Don P

At home, north of the sy pine range, it is as fast growing as the pines and strong. Grows like a weed, the seed is viable forever and wants to sprout, I like it. It took over the old chestnut stands. While Jasper took us for a walk today on a nice greenway on the Broad River I learned that its a member of the magnolia family.  

L. Wakefield

   And- believe it or not!- it is actually listed in the book Trees of Maine. As an introduced species of course- but says it does OK. I just love those trees! How high off the ground were those blossoms in the picture, DonP?   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Ron Wenrich

From logyard



To carriage:



To the grade pile:



Poplar grows well in our area, but to get the large areas of sapwood, you need it to grow down south.  They need at least 1/3 sap for veneer.

It grows very well up to about 36".  The biggest I've sawn is about 40" and that takes a long time, since I don't have a top saw.

You get very good amounts of F1F and better lumber off of the butts and second cuts.  The lumber shown here is 10/4. destined for the Canadian markets.  I've sawn 16/4 boards that were 20" wide, and clear on both sides.  The lumber stackers hate when you do that.   :D  

Here's something to ponder.  I was told that those large pillars on those southern mansions were made from quartered tulip poplar trees.  I have no way of knowing if that's true, but it would be a very large tree to be quartered into those sizes.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

Hey how come the picture of your carriage is backwards? Cause its a Canadian Morbark?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Don P


Those blooms were only a little over head high on a ~24" yard tree at home that I keep having the best intentions of limbing up. Its not unusual to go clear 32' in the woods and I've seen plenty go more. The old giant on the housesite was 6' across the stump...but unfortunately waist deep inside the rotten heart.
The largest I've seen was 2 men and a boy around cbh (circumference, boy height).
Our barn and rent house are both 24' wide with 12' spans. I framed with 2x10 joists 16" on center. The barn is loaded...with ag type stuff...wood, half a dozen engines, a truck, you know the usual :D
One joist failed, but from a spike knot in the lower side, bad grading on my part, other than that it seemed to be a good overkill size for that species and span.
A lot of clapboard siding was made from it. We ran paint grade moldings, shutters, mantles etc. out of it as well. Its an old favorite for lumber core and good grades of veneer core plywood. A good finisher can imitate alot of woods on it as well...a very versatile tree.  

Jeff

An interesting fact about the largest of the tulip poplar is that they can no longer be polinated by Bees. Bees can only fly to a height of 40 or 50 feet. Two of this nations historic trees are the Tulip Poplars planted in 1785 by George Washington at Mount Vernon. They are now manually pollinating the individual flowers, one by one, relying on a lift bucket and Q-tips. Seeds can then be collected so the offspring of these trees can continue to be produced.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

swampwhiteoak

I forgot about that Jeff.  The native pollinator is unknown, wonder what it is/was?

woodman

  I know where there is at leat 2 of them here in Mass. so big it takes 2 people to give them a hug.
Jim Cripanuk

Corley5

Do hummingbirds like the flowers?  They'd be a pollinator if they do.  But will they fly higher than bees?
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

L. Wakefield

   I think henybees are the natural pollinator. I know tulip poplar honey is one of the types, and that tree is listed as bee fodder.   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

swampwhiteoak

Honeybees are a pollinator, but they are european imports.  To my knowledge the native pollinator is unknown.

bjorn

Don,
Thanks for the info.  I have also been out of the loop for a while.  Busy with "real job" and milling when I can.  I got the info I need on Tulop Poplar span tables from a friend.  ANd yes, this is an Ag use building, thats what my permit says, and that's all it will be!  Amazing how difficult it is to use non-graded lumber without jumping through hoops like this!  Even if the quality is better than any of the crap you have to pay good money for.

Don P

I've been typing this up while out on site-offline...I see bjorn already found it but figured it might be worthwhile info for someone in the future. The book lists spans based on Fb and E and then goes on to give those values for quite a few species...a real good table to get hold of for those who might need something other than run of the (Canadian :D) mill info.

These are the design values for joists and rafters from the "92 CABO codebook NC Edition.

Yellow-Poplar (surfaced dry or surfaced green)

Select Structural 2x4 Fb 1700  Modulus of elasticity 1,500,000
No 1                              1450                                 1,500,000
No 2                              1200                                 1.3M
No 3                                675                                 1.2M
Stud                                675                                 1.2

Construction                    875                                  1.2
Standard                         500                                  1.2
Utility                              225                                  1.2

Sel Str 2x5&wider           1500                                  1.5
No1&appearance            1250                                  1.5
No 2                              1050                                  1.3
No3                                 600                                  1.2
Stud                                600                                  1.2

Allowable spans for floor joists...here are some examples this is from the table for 40 lb live load/10 lb dead load, deflection 1/360 span
2x6..E=1.3...16" on center...9'1"   Fb=1090
                   24"                  7'11" Fb=1250
       E=1.4   16"                  9'4"   Fb=1150
                   24"                  8'2"   Fb=1310
       E=1.5   16"                  9'6"   Fb=1200
                   24"                  8'4"   Fb=1380

2x8..E=1.3...16"                 12'0"  Fb=1090
                    24"                10'6"        1250
       E=1.4    16"                12'3"        1150
                    24"                10'9"        1310
       E=1.5    16"                12'7"        1200
                    24"                11'0"        1380  

2x10..E=1.3...16"               15'3"         1090
                     24"               13'4"         1250
         E=1.4   16"               15'8"         1150
                     24"               13'8"         1310
         E=1.5   16"               16'0"         1200
                     24"               14'0"         1380
      
2x12..E=1.3...16"               18'7"         1090
                     24"               16'3"         1250
         E=1.4   16"               19'1"         1150
                     24"               16'8"         1310
         E=1.5   16"               19'6"         1200
                     24"               17'0"         1380

Rafters, allowable span for low or high slope 15lb dead, 30 lbs per square foot live load supporting gypsum ceiling deflection limited to 1/240 span (sorry but the only other choice was supporting plaster) Notice extreme fiber stress in bending rather than stiffness is the main factor in these tables
2x6...Fb=1000...16"           9'2"       E=.67
                        24"           7'6"           .54
        Fb=1200...16"           10'0"          .88
                        24"           8'2"           .72
        Fb=1400   16"           10'10"       1.10
                        24"           8'10"          .90

2x8   Fb=1000   16"          12'1"           .67
                        24"          9'10"           .54
        Fb=1200   16"          13'3"           .88
                        24"          10'10"         .72
        Fb=1400   16"          14'4"         1.10
                        24"          11'8"          .90

2x10  Fb=1000   16"         15'5"          .67
                         24"         12'7"          .54
         Fb=1200   16"         16'11"        .88
                         24"         13'9"         .72
         Fb=1400   16"         18'3"        1.10
                         24"         14'11"        .90

2x12  Fb=1000   16"         18'9"          .67
                         24"         15'4"          .54
         Fb=1200   16"         20'6"          .88
                         24"         16'9"         .72
         Fb=1400   16"         22'2"         1.10
                         24"        18'1"           .90


bjorn

Don,

That's all very helpful information.  I appreciate the effort.  This information does not seem to be readily available on the internet.  

Bjorn

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Thank You Sponsors!