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Log Truck

Started by Kansas, February 18, 2012, 03:27:52 PM

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Kansas

I have done absolutely, positively, everything I can think of to avoid buying a commercial log truck. All these years, I have managed to cobble together ways to not buy one. Have an 86 yr old man that has a straight truck that hauls a little every day. Had a guy that drives a Menard's truck haul some. Hauled some myself, and have a gooseneck and F250 truck that another guy occasionally hauls with. Bought from loggers that hauled in, managed to hire them on occasion to haul for me. Alas, I am coming to the end of the road. We need more logs; no one to really hire to haul. And if we did, we still have to load them.

Seems to me what I need is a twin screw picker truck, picker on the back. A pup to go with it. My question is this.. do I go cheap or more expensive for what I spend on the truck. I imagine just the insurance and tags will be 4000 dollars. So I am trying to figure out how to justify it. We don't need it all the time. There are no mills left near to haul to. And you can't put 130 miles on a load of logs to send to another mill. I know some loggers have gotten into the business of hauling brush and such when a disaster hits. Does anyone here have experience hauling for FEMA or anyone like that? I figure disasters are usually spring to fall, when most timber we need is locked in by crops. I don't know what any of the requirements are to get into that business. Just looking for input and ideas here.

rockman

 Might want to give some thought to a trailer with a loader on it, like a Metavic or equivalent. Just a thought.
Kevin
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Kansas

My problem with that is, so often times its the terrain and circumstances on where we have to be that would make it difficult. If it was a longer haul from yard to yard, that would be the way to go. But in our case there will be some more difficult hauls.

Just got off the phone with my sister the attorney. Looking at the possibility of tagging it in Missouri. Maybe set up an LLC there. Tags would be a whole lot cheaper. I think insurance would be as well, because I believe log trucks are considered farm equipment there. Have a lot of groundwork to do on this one.

Bibbyman

It's real confusing and convoluted.  Many of the trucks hauling lumber in Missouri are running on farm plates.  Many are over the road tractor trailers with "Such and such Farms" painted on the side and have farm plates.   One guy hauls lumber to the buyer with and 3500 Chevy truck and a gooseneck trailer with farm plates.  The mill is only a couple of miles away so he may make a couple of trips to the lumber broker and RR tie lot a day.

We have run farm plates on our 3500 Dodge for years hauling almost nothing but lumber, cants and RR ties.  We go through the weigh station every time it's open – loaded or not.  Probably once a week average for the past 5 years. We have never been stopped other than one time when the DOT guy spotted a bump on an inside duel tire.

Now, here comes the confusing part.  When we got the new Terrastar, Mary made the first run ok.  The second run she got stopped at the weigh station because they were inspecting for farm fuel being used on the highway.   She was targeted because she had "farm" plates on the truck.  They checked the fuel and she was sent on her way.  Nothing was said about the lumber on the truck.  They knew her from the many times she'd been across the scales with the Dodge with farm plates.

Next trip she was stopped again.  This time because she was hauling lumber on a truck with farm plates.  Never mind that the tractor trailer rig ahead of her was hauling lumber and had farm plats.  He was stopped to inspect his tires.  Mary argued with the two DOT guys and they couldn't agree.  One said she couldn't haul lumber, sawdust, slabs, logs on farm plates as those items were not farm products.  They also said she couldn't haul more than so many miles away from home on farm plates – 50, 100, 150, they couldn't decide.  (Others say you can haul anywhere in the state.)  When she got back she went to town and bought 26,000 BL plates – not farm plates.  Now she is told she has to keep a log book if and when she hauls more than 100 or 150 air miles from home.  Take your pick of how many miles.

Our logger runs "log truck" plates.  I know no more than that about it.

We've talked to professional loggers, truck drivers and about anyone else that may have some knowledge of the topic of what plates are needed for what products and what the rules are.  Just like belly buttons, everyone has an opinion.

Here is a link to a PDF the MoDot site.

http://www.modot.org/mcs/documents/LogTruckBooklet2011.pdf
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Kansas

Thanks Bibby. Gives me a starting point.

Ironwood

Yeah it is a "mess" out there. Varying enforcement (and their opinion of what hte rule actually is). I did buy a medium duty used truck if I ever want to "go there"". 2002 Freightliner, Pre urea, pre computer, new enough to be a GOOD diesel, hub pilot rims on 22.5's, engine brake, and A/C . CHEAP. If I doent get utilized I can sell the Cummins for what I have in the truck.

I find if it "looks" like a pickup they are less likely to give you a hassle. I drove my old white 2000 F550 100K all over the East and NEVER stopped at a DOT check point. I know eventually they will "sting me", I passed several that had multiple troopers in multiple cars idling waiting on he "on ramp" of the scales to chase passers by, thinking "ok this it their gonna come after me this time,........." no lights never pulled out. Many times this was with tandem trailers, and a tarp on the flatbed.   I may go the medium duty but no time soon, I hate to eve nfile my quarterly sales tax forms , let alone all the fuel sticker numbers and stuff  ::)

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

dgdrls

Kansas,

tough challenge,  seems a trailer with a loader would do it (Metavic).  However you indicated
terrain can be a challenge.  Makes me think you need a fowarder/skidder too???

Perhaps Eastern surplus,  http://www.easternsurplus.net/

best DGDrls


slider

kansas,before you take this step contact the dot and sit down with one of their people and let them explain to you just what you have to do to comply.the rule book can be somewhat confusing at the least.if you are not for hire ,meaning hauling your own product you could be under a whole different set of rules.it's just my guess but if you can keep it farm related you would be way better off.when you go commercial it opens up a whole can of worms.just make sure you are covered with your insurance.hope this helps  al
al glenn

smanning

Regarding your FEMA question I can make a few comments, haven't done it but researched it when tornadoes ripped us up pretty good last year. A lot of local people thought they could get in on the clean-up, none did. You have to be pre-registered(FEMA has a website) and the crews they used before got all the work, most were from out of state. They all had similar rigs; large open top straight trucks (24'?) with high sideboards, grapple and pulling a trailer identical to the truck bed.  Steve M

Ironwood

I would get the biggest truck that looks like a pickup (550, 5500) and some sort of trailer. I even had thoughts of that set up and to run a hollowed out RV trailer (RV are exempted). You could hinge the sides to flip down  ;D :D.  A mans gotta be creative!!!



 


Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

slider

kansas i bought a 89 l8000 with a extendable boom.it was a retired sheet rock truck.i put a set of bolsters and a grapple with a rotator .it's probably the best addition i have done so far.it's a 10 wheeler diesel with a 15 speed.i bought the material to build a 2 axle trailer to pull behind it but with a big load of logs on  this old girl has all she wants.i insured it (liability only)for farm use for around 550.00 per year.the boom is not as fast as i would like but it works for me.if i bought another one i would get more power.
al glenn

chevytaHOE5674

I know a few truckers that have tried the FEMA work but I don't know anybody that has tried it more than once. From what I've heard their rules and regs are crazy, you need to be registered and what not, and the pay isn't great and takes forever.

Also you have to be careful what kind of plates you have on the truck (farm, apportioned, etc) depending on what your hauling. In Michigan farm/log plates are only good for a raw material, hauling lumber or scrap metal on farm/log plates it will get you a few thousand and fines and fees.

NWP

     I may be able to offer some more input on this for you from the Missouri side.  I included a couple of pictures of my truck and trailer so you could get an idea what I've got.  The problem I've had talking to DOT officers is that no two will ever tell you the same thing and the one that you are talking to at the time will always think he is right. 

     In Missouri, you can license a truck as a Local log truck.  This license costs approx. $300 per year.  You also have to submit the IRS form 2290 for heavy use tax.  There is a reduced fee for log trucks and I think it is around $75.  The local log truck license allows you to haul YOUR forest products from the logging site to a mill within 75 miles of the site.  You can't haul finished wood products such as lumber with this license.  Also, it isn't permitted to haul storm debris or tree service waste.  You also can't haul logs for other people or logs that you have purchased from someone else.  You can only haul logs that you cut from a logging site.  You can haul forestry related equipment such as a skidder.  Another restriction on the local log truck license is that it is for intrastate use only, you can't go out of state with it. 

     The weight limit on the truck is based on volume on any road other than an interstate.  On the interstate, you are restricted to the  the same axle weights as any other big truck.   As far as I can understand, you are allowed 25 cubic yards of volume for every 2 sets of axles.  According to the DOT guy at the scales, this means with my truck I can have 50 yards of volume on the truck and I suppose another 25 yards on the trailer.  I'm not 100% sure about the trailer because I can't find anything in the regulations that talks about trailers being pulled by a licensed log truck.  My truck and trailer weighs around 85,000 lbs loaded as pictured.

     With all that being said, I do haul storm debris and tree removal waste with mine.  Most of the DOT officers aren't really sure on the rules as they pertain to the log truck license so I take the chance.  The insurance on mine is about $800 per year. 

     As far as the FEMA work, most guys don't end up making out as good as they think they will.  There are so many people with storm trucks now the price paid per yard is down around $2-3.  During Katrina it was $9-10.  You usually have to subcontract to someone else so you are at the bottom of the food chain.  You'll typically be the last one paid and get the debris to haul that's the furthest from the dump site.  The guys higher up the ladder get the gravy stuff that is closer to the dump site so they can get more loads per day and since it's paid per yard that means they make a lot more.  I've never done it, but a guy that used to work for me worked for a couple of different outfits doing this.

     I hope this helps a little.   

  

 
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Okrafarmer

If you are doing FEMA work out of state, you have to either (a) get properly licensed, insured, etc. in the state and locality you will be working with, or (b) become a subcontractor for another outfit. I don't recall the exact price per C/Y but I do recall that most guys with a decent yardage were getting over $100 per trip and averaging at least 12 trips per day-- sometimes more like 20. That was 2008, Hurricane Ike. I was a load monitor for that storm, for 8 weeks. If you are out of work and need something to do with very little overhead, you can go and be a load monitor after a hurricane. Look on Craig's List the day or the day after the hurricane hits, and there should be ads for load monitors. Be sure you actually contact someone who will definitely hire you before you go. You need a legally licensed car in your name, a hard hat, a safety vest, and a working cell phone.  A GPS is recommended, but I did not use one.

Go into the zone as a survivalist, with plenty of water, food and gas to get you by for a few days. Sleep in your car or in a tent. Shower at a truck stop. The first few days are the icky ones, before your routine is finalized. As soon as you arrive, meet up with the load monitoring company you contacted-- or see if you can find any other companies nearby. Some companies do better than others on pay. I got $14/ hr. plus X1.5 overtime. You are expected to work 12 hours a day, seven days a week. There may be times when you get less than this, as I did sometimes. On a full week, if you work 84 hours, you get $1484. I've heard the wage went up this past year.

Your work consists of being a stooge. You go around with the hard-working guys who actually load the brush and you officially document what they are doing. You fill out a paper for them to take in to the brush yard with them, saying where they got their load and when. Theoretically you are trying to stop corruption. In the end, the corruption is rampant, at all levels. You have to decide between overlooking minor technicalities and reporting them. You find that when you do report them, the people you report to, don't really want to hear about it. So, you just try to keep yourself out of trouble the best you can. If you're out of work anyway, $1,000 - $1,400 a week will set you back on your feet. They paid me every week.

Not for the faint of heart. I did it once, and I'd do it again, but you go through some ordeals to do it.

As for the trucking end of it, the ones who do best take two or more trucks driven by hourly workers. As has been said before, the pay to the truck-runners is slow in arriving. Don't be surprised if you get your first paycheck 6 weeks after starting. The government corruption and competition of corrupt competitors is intense.  A lot of guys took a telelloader or other kind of loader with a grapple and used it to load dump trucks. They built up the sides on the dump trucks to give them as many cubic yards as possible.
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Autocar

I would go with the best twin screw truck with a loader you can afford. The better the truck looks the P.U.C.O. will not look at you so close as you pass each other. Another option with a knuckle boom truck alot of towns around here have what they can fix up clean up week. They can get read of anything that week ,so a knuckle boom truck can load much faster then a town owned backhoe. Just one way to make a little more. Good luck Bill
Bill

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