iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Winch cable end repair

Started by ckjohnson99, April 09, 2015, 02:03:40 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ckjohnson99

So, a couple weeks ago I was working the logs for my eventual log cabin and managed to break off the end of the winch cable. For a quick, in-the-field repair, I simply took the #1 cinch and tied a make-shift knot in the cable to include the "slider" portion of the cinch. Then I untied it, threaded the other six sliders back on the cable and re-tied it. D'oh! Then I looped the #1 cinch on a tree and slowly drew it up tight to fix the knot.

Since I was working with a pro who also brought his own skidder, I asked him about it. He said that was pretty good for an in-the-field repair but I should fix it correctly when I have the time. His cable had seven sliders with cinches. The end of the winch cable had a piece of metal that was specifically made to hold a single half hitch knot then the sliders would stop on that metal.

Where can I get one of these cable stops? How do I cut the cable, tie the knot and then seal the end so the cable doesn't come unwound?

Terminology: (since I'm not a pro, I'm using the most descriptive words I can, please tell me the real names and excuse my ignorance)
Cinch: The five foot cable with a small lug on one end and a slider on the other. On the cable is a piece of metal that connects to the lug when wrapped around a log.
Slider: The metal on the other end of the cinch that connects the cinch to the winch cable. This piece has a hole where the winch cable is allowed to travel.



1973 TreeFarmer Log Skidder with Cable Winch, Cat D4C LGP, Bobcat 763H, Husqvarna 455

Amateurs built the Ark;
Professionals built the Titanic.

Maine logger88

So you would like to put a ferrule on the end of the cable? Does it look like this? 

 
These work well I have one in the tool box but I generally just use a knot in the end. What you call a cinch is a choker.
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

rick f

Here is a link to some information. I checked the sponser page and didn't find this sort of stuff.

http://www.labonville.com/Logging-Construction-Hardware_c_218.html
664 clark skidder
1- 562 husky
1- 254xp husky
1 - 268xp husky
1250 JD farm tractor with skid winch
5040 kubota farm tractor

petefrom bearswamp

I have used knots before for temporary but do a good job when I get back to the shop.
For cutting, I either borrow my logger friends cable cutter or use my electric grinder with a metal cutting wheel.
I wrap the end with a few turns of electrical tape prior to cutting to prevent unraveling
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

John Mc

What about putting one of these on the end?



 

They are removable and reusable. This one has a keyhole, but I think you can also get them with a grab hook if you prefer
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

teakwood

This thing seems heavy and bulky to me. Just buy a end knob as shown by maine logger. they cost just 13$ and you will have a nice straight strong handy endknob. no need to tie a nasty knot in the cable. Just assure that every of the 7 individual cables goes to its appropriate groove on the ferrule wedges, as seen in the second pic


  

 
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

submarinesailor

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on April 09, 2015, 04:52:27 PM
I wrap the end with a few turns of electrical tape prior to cutting to prevent unraveling

I like using big heavy tie raps, one on each side of the cut.

Bruce

treeslayer2003

Quote from: rick f on April 09, 2015, 03:11:44 PM
Here is a link to some information. I checked the sponser page and didn't find this sort of stuff.

http://www.labonville.com/Logging-Construction-Hardware_c_218.html
i believe they do have them even though they are not on the web site.

whitepine2

Quote from: submarinesailor on April 09, 2015, 06:26:43 PM
Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on April 09, 2015, 04:52:27 PM
I wrap the end with a few turns of electrical tape prior to cutting to prevent unraveling

I like using big heavy tie raps, one on each side of the cut.

Bruce
I just use a cutting torch,don't use  it for cutting just melt the
cable. When done melt the small wires together this makes
a nice blunt end and no unraveling.

sawguy21

Going back to the original question, you are looking at a choker. It will have a thimble at one end to allow hooking to the main line and a nubbin at the other. In between will be a bell that slides on the cable, the nubbin hooks into it to secure the log. We gave up trying to repair chokers, cost too much time and field repairs didn't last.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

thenorthman

Yep reusable ferrule, when the cable breaks use a punch to remove the wedges and reassemble... when the wedges wear out buy new wedges. fairly common around here.

the knot in the end of the winch line works ok, but you loose a lot of line every time you need to tie one, foot or 2 to tie the knot, and 7-8 feet when it finally breaks because of the unraveling of the line...

With the ferule you can keep an eye on it and hack of the damaged end and reinstall, takes about 20 minutes with practice.

As for cutting cable, seize the end with tape, wire, snot whatever just so it don't unravel too bad.

then get a disk grinder if you're lucky enough to be near power or have the cordless version.

or a gas cut off saw

or you can get a Starrett-Morse cable cutter which are pretty slick... bang bang bang bang pop nice and clean.

the last and final option is to take an old axe bury it in a stump place cable over the sharp edge of said axe and wail away on it with a sledge hammer... eye protection is necessary! by the way its more like postition smack, reposition smack, swear spit smack reposition... repostion sm... swear reposition smack for about 3 hours... this method is terrible... but it works
well that didn't work

Maine logger88

Yes I agree on the starrett morse cutter I have one and its 100 bucks well spent! I have also used the axe method one time when the knife on my cable cutter broke it sucked but it worked
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

lumberjack48

  I carried a short handled double blade axe, vice grips and a 5 pound hammer on the skidder. When i seen the end of the cable getting ready to fray we'd stop. I'd grab the axe and hammer, find a stump, cut a groove in the stump with the chainsaw. Then put the axe in the groove, give it a couple hits with the hammer to stable it. Then pull the cable over sliding end bells and chokers up out of the way. Lay cable over the axe, 4 to 10 blows the cable is cut off. Now grab the cable and the end choker, hook choker on a tree. [ I had the same end bell as teakwook] I used a figure 8 knot, using the vice grips about 4 inchs from the end,  pulling it as tight a i could. Now the wife would winch in sliding the skidder back, getting the knot as tight as we could. The reason for the figure 8 knot is i always had trouble with a single knot untying.
  Now after 2 or 3 drags i'd get the axe and hammer out and clean the whiskers off the end of the knot. The whole procedure of retying the cable takes about 15 minutes. 
 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

enigmaT120

Oh man.  That axe method reminds me of a way I figured out how to cut rope that my wife finds on the beach.  Sometimes it goes under rocks too big for me to move, and she wants me to cut off what I can to take home for yard art.  Once I forgot my knife and I tried holding the rope tight over a big rock and just banging on it with another rock.  That works almost as fast as a sharp knife, and is faster than using a dull knife.  I felt like a caveman or something, but I never imagined you could do the same thing with wire rope!
Ed Miller
Falls City, Or

jocco

Hey Lumberjack that was old school and long ago :D brings back memories!!!!! A friend put a round ring on the end sure helped to pull the cable out, have not seen that for a while either. :D



Quote from: lumberjack48 on April 10, 2015, 01:31:41 PM
  I carried a short handled double blade axe, vice grips and a 5 pound hammer on the skidder. When i seen the end of the cable getting ready to fray we'd stop. I'd grab the axe and hammer, find a stump, cut a groove in the stump with the chainsaw. Then put the axe in the groove, give it a couple hits with the hammer to stable it. Then pull the cable over sliding end bells and chokers up out of the way. Lay cable over the axe, 4 to 10 blows the cable is cut off. Now grab the cable and the end choker, hook choker on a tree. [ I had the same end bell as teakwook] I used a figure 8 knot, using the vice grips about 4 inchs from the end,  pulling it as tight a i could. Now the wife would winch in sliding the skidder back, getting the knot as tight as we could. The reason for the figure 8 knot is i always had trouble with a single knot untying.
  Now after 2 or 3 drags i'd get the axe and hammer out and clean the whiskers off the end of the knot. The whole procedure of retying the cable takes about 15 minutes. 

You may check out but you will never leave

lumberjack48

OLD School, I'd be doing it the same way today. I always used what was the quickest, easiest, fastest way to get it done. I would not have a pig tail or burs at the end of my mainline >:(
  I forgot to menage another way i did it. When i saw it was starting to go bad, i'd retie it as soon as i got a big drag on. I'd release the winch, jump up on the drag and pull enough cable to retie it. Then winch up and go to the landing, the new knot would be tight. When the skidder came back i'd cut the pig tail off before hooking up, yes, with the axe and hammer.
I've cut the cable off many times with out a axe. I've used the fenders, over the blade, any square place on the skidder, it takes about 3 to 5 minutes of steady hammering.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

BargeMonkey

 Comstock logging supply who is a forum sponsor can supply you with what you need, he just dropped me off a few of them. You might have to call if they arent on the website.
Seen quite a few cables cut with a small axe and a hammer, had one guy look at me in shock when we did it in the woods one day about 1 mile from the skidder. Tape is manditory.  8)

HiTech

I made a couple washers out of thick wall pipe. Keep a spare in my saw accessories box. I put the sliders on, just slip the washer on the cable, tie a knot, pull it tight and hack off the end with a battery powered grinder or torch. It lasts till the next time the cable breaks.

H.O.D.

Thanks for the info about the end of winch cable end repair ferrule. Didnt know about it. I had been sepperating the cable into two groups for about two feet and then weaving it back together forming a factory type loop. The remaining tail can be served with wire or tape. Doesnt work well when the slid rides up but gets me thru the day. Learned this method working for a utility company..we had 1000 foot cable on a truck mounted drums to pull telephone cable from one underground manhole to next. After reading so much info on EAB killing ash as close as NY...intend to start cutting as soon as conditions are dry enough. Enjoy the weather.

John Woodworth

All you need to do is tie a knot in the line I don't know why people seem to think they  have to use mechanical or hydraulic pressed knobs, knot is all I've ever used and would do no other,Get yourself a good cable cutter they aren't that expensive.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

ga jones

A lot of people don't like strands of sharp wire hanging at the end. Including me.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

teakwood

National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

BargeMonkey

 I was a firm believer in the "knot" until i started using the cable swedge's. Its all well and great till the guy working for you sticks himself with a ratty end and turns it into comp, that 12.00 end will seem cheap then.  :D

lumberjack48

Quote from: ga jones on April 19, 2015, 06:22:20 PM
A lot of people don't like strands of sharp wire hanging at the end. Including me.
This includes me, i could trim the whiskers off real close with the axe and hammer. Then i'd hammer the short barbs against the knot. I liked using the knot because i could retie the knot on the fly, i didn't have to stop pulling wood to fix it. I used the end with the wedges, it has to be done just right or it doesn't stay together. It was to much monkey business, when you use the knot your done with it. We used a knot when i worked in Mt. behind a slide bar D8. If the foreman caught you with barbs sticking out of the knot you got two weeks off. This is where i learned to use the axe to clean the knot up. I learned a lot about running mainline and setting chokers when i ran rigging in Mt. There were 7 D8 skidding cats and one D8 dozer  on each crew. [1966-67]
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Thank You Sponsors!