iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

circulater pump problem

Started by dkfearon, January 16, 2012, 07:49:56 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dkfearon

I have an e classic 2300 and this is the 4th winter with it here in maine , my question is that when it gets cold 0 or below with wind my boiler will not keep my house warm.The other night 10 below woodboiler would not get house above 65. when its not freezing my house stays 74 easy. Do you think that my Circ Pumps are to small. my heat exchanger to my hot water boiler is an 80 plate.If i turn on my oilboiler my house will heat up with no issues. My wood boiler is set to 190 and burns fine and the wood is dry. My pex from the boiler is 11/4

snowstorm

what part of the state are you in? i have a taylor a big one 4ft wood 900gal of water. its been a while since i looked them but belive the pumps are 009 taco 100' run. if its 10 below it will drop to 69 in the morning. but the house is 30x56 log cabin with 17' ceilings log cabins do not heat well plus a 40x40 garage. i have heat in the floor in the house hot air in the garage. water set at 180

bandmiller2

DK, on the cold nights does your boiler temp stay up or drop.If the boiler temp stays up its doing it job and its distrobution or an extremley drafty house.Probibly anouther or larger circulator would help. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Holmes

  I agree with bandmiller2.  It would be nice to know what the water temp is entering the exchanger and leaving the exchanger.
Think like a farmer.

jaybe_2

My sister has a CB with the same problem, The water stays up to temp as does the heat exchanger.  I think its a problem in the house ! I feel that the circulaters need to push instead of pull for starters ( I know that will strike a nerve in some plummers ) I Have a good friend that plummed his CB in with no heat exchanger and his circulaters pushing. He heats his house and his garage, both are big  and never has a problem. He has been running it this way for a long time not under pressure that is.

trapper

Check the impeller in the pump.  Mine disinagrated and still pumped but very little.  This was a taco 007 pump.  They make a cartridge for the 007.  It is easier to replace but costs almost as much as the entire pump.
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

dkfearon

 I live in southern maine. I dont believe my temp is dropping during the night as when I fill it at 4:30 am its still up to temp. My house was built in 1984 and has six inch walls and also has one inch styro underneath the siding. I have no draft and like I said before my oil furnace has no issues keeping my house warm. I have had the same pumps since my stove was new and its has always done this when getting real cold and windy so that why I believe its the pumps. I have two both on a manifold that I had built for me. I think they pump about 10 to 16 gallons a minute

snowstorm

my pumps are on the furnace. one on steady for the house garage is on demand. i did have pump trouble once it quit on a weekend the only place open or at home was a CB dealer. nice guy he tried. it would not pump enought. so monday i called taco they agreed that model was not the one for the job. the CB dealer took it back says i used that model for years. do you have a water temp gaudge at the manifold? one from napa will work fine

stumper

Can you loose the heat exchanger?  I am in mid Maine with 3200 of similar construction less the styrofoam.  Mine keeps the heat up fine with the 1 inch line, but no heat exchanger.  My dealer recomended against the exhanger if at all possible.  In my case my oil boiler circulators push and the difference in elevation allows the oil boiler to still opperate under about 6 pounds of presure.

leeallen

DKFearon ,
My gut tells me your pump is the problem. I had the same issue and I replaced it with a 3 speed Grundfos and have never had an issue. I might suggest you look into  the new Grundfos Alpha pump. I'm pretty sure I know what your manifold looks like, and it would be easy to swap out your pump. If it doesnt solve the problem, you still have a back up pump in stock.

bandmiller2

Seems to me your not transfering enough heat from your OWB to the house boiler water.Possibly a better pump would help but I believe the heat exchanger is the root problem.If you could circulate some of that 190 degree water through your system you'll be opening windows. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

leeallen

And-  as Stumper says, it wouldn't hurt to flush your heat exchanger while you are right there.

doctorb

My opinion is that, if the problem did not happen over the previous three winters that it's either:

1.  Your OWB pump.  Do you have temp gauges where the water from the 2300 enters and leaves your basement?  If the temp of the water coming into your house is still good (above 180) then the circulator pump from the OWB is probably working.  Is the boiler being maintained at temperature without kicking on?

2.  You may have an air pocket in one or more of the hot water heating loops in your house that's preventing circulation of the hot water from your boiler.  So, if your boiler is not kicking on, it's being kept warm and at temp by the OWB.  If your house is cold, then that heat is not being circulated from your basement boiler through your house.  Have you purged your indoor system lately?  I think that's your problem.  Also, have you checked the circulator pumps in your basement for your heating zones?  Are they working?  How many heating zones do you have?

If I had to bet, one or more of your loops in your house is air locked.  Let us know if that's the issue.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

thecfarm

I have a 2,007 Taco that go into 2 heat exchangers,but mine look like radiators with a fan,I have no idea about the plate ones. This system works great for me. Do one thing at a time to figure it out. More cold weather is on the way. Southern Maine,Portland,York? Welcome to the forum. I doubt it's much of a problem.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

dkfearon

if my oil furnace was air locked or had an air pocket my oil furnace would not bring the house up to temp would it? my oil furnace has no problem keeping the house warm. how do you flush the heatexchanger?

doctorb

the air pockets don't collect in the furnace, they collect in the upstairs pipes becasue the air rises through the water.  A lot of this depends on how the hot water zones are configured.   if your downstairs pipes/radiators are warm, and the upstairs is cold, either the circ pump to the upstairs ism't functioning, or that loop is air locked.  On warmer days, the heat from a downstairs functioning loop may be enough to warm the upstairs.  Not on cold days.  Put your hand on the pipes!  If one zone is cool and the other is warm when your thermostats are sending signals for more heat, then its the pump or the upstairs is air locked.  How do I know this???  I have had this problem.

How many zones of heat do you have?  Turn up the thermostat up on each zone and feel the pipes.  If the upstairs pipes remain cool, while the downstairs heats up OK, then
1.  It's not your OWB
2. Your probably air locked, unless a circ pump is malfunctioning to the upstairs loop.

If your oil furnace brings everything up to temp, then the problem would seem to be located within your OWB.  Temprature gauges in your basement would give some clue whether the heat produced by your 2300 is reaching your basement adequately.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

leeallen

Doctorb, I like your approach to zeroing in on the problem. I have had the problem Fearon is describing and determined my system was free of air which led me back to the heat exchanger and circ pump from my wood  boiler to my house. My run is 250ft. and the pump was not pushing the water thru the heat exchanger to keep up with the heat demand within the house. Once I installed a high volume pump the problem was solved.
To flush heat exchanger -  shut down pumps, close valves, disconnect unions to heat exchanger(hopefully it was installed with unions) and remove. I have filled mine with a cleaning agent (CSR I think that's what it is called- I got it at home depot). Probably any rust/scale remover would work.Flush with a garden hose, fill with CSR,  and let it sit for a few hours, flush again with a garden hose to remove any rust or scale. Mine was perfectly clean even after 2 years.
Once you install a new pump and your heat exchanger is clean, you should be good to go if that's the issue. I have been doing a bit of research on the Grundfos Alpha Smart pump, and I think that's what I will use when I need to replace a pump to save some money. I have seen them on line for 156.00. Hope this helps.

dkfearon

Lee  I believe that the pump is the issue  I had Richard build my manifold as you did and I believe the pump is to small he is coming this week to install the pump that you listed and its 3 speeds  I think this will take care of the issue. I am almost certain that my oil furnace is not the problem as I have 2 zones and both are coming up to temp when I run the oil furnace  which is very little. did you say that you put the 3 speed pump on your manifold? did you replace 1 pump or both?

doctorb

If the pump is the problem, why did it do OK for the three years before now.  I would think that too small a pump would have been evident before this, unless there's some reason for degredation of the performance of the pump.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

stumper

Hopefully the pump fixes it for you.  That is the pump I have.  I do not know if it actually saves me any money but at the start of the season I use the low setting, then the middle and finally the high setting for the winter.   I know it need to go to the higher setting if the furnace comes on.   

I also increase the furnace temp from 185 to 190 for the cold snaps, as that store more heat in the oil furnace.

If you can try to determine what the water temp is leaving the boiler and what it is returning to the boiler.  If the pump is the issue I would expect the return to be noticably colder.  If it is the exchanger it would be pretty close to the out going temp.  Another way to think of it is if the exchanger is working it is pulling a lot of heat from the water but there is not enough water passing through to meet your needs therefore it is a pump issue.  If on the other hand the heat exchanger is not pulling much heat from the water then then enough water is moving through but it just is not getting utilized.

Now it would be very nice to know what those readings were before the problem arrose, but I am sure those number are not available.  Heck nobody gets an EKG when there heart is healthy, just after there is an issue.

dkfearon

Doctorb   I have had problems with this since day one but only on real cold snaps and I am getting upset that on real cold snaps I have to run my stove in my cellar or turn the limit on the oil furnace up so the furnace will keep us warm. I shouldnt have to do this with this boiler and I want it to perform the way it is supposed to.

doctorb

I think those temp gauges would provide your answer. Keep us posted on your solution. I think your stove should put out plenty of btu's for the job
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

buckgrunt

Great subject....

I also had the the recent problem of a my family room not getting above 65 degrees during the recent cold snap we had here in New England. I attributed this to my family room not being very well insulated. I have lots of windows and French doors in this room.  I have hot water radiant heat in this room and hot water was flowing throughout the radiant system with no problems.   I believe it was just too darn cold !!!!   I make take the advice of increasing my OWB (E-2300) temp from 185 to 190 during these cold snaps.  The remainder of my house was fine at a cozy 70 degrees.

bandmiller2

As Doc was saying always suspect air pockets they are insidous you think you bled the sysyem but no heat.Circulator pumps are very dependable and durable but they push water much better than suck it.If you have hot water but cold pipes down the line, you can almost wager money it an air pocket. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

doctorb

When my system was installed, the plumber told me that he wanted to have a return temp to the OWB of close to 180 degrees.  If this was maintained, then he was assured that the incoming temp was above that, and he suggested 180 degree water for hot-water baseboard heat.  Now I have looked at that return temp gauge countless times, and when there is a large heat draw, that temp can get down into the 160's.  Constant return temps at that level would mean a lot more wood consumed to maintain my 185-195 degreee range in the 2300.

If you don't have an air pocket, then having this data will be key to improving your stove performance.  Regardless of how this current problem gets licked, I would suggest installing those gauges in your basement.  It really helps understand where your system is at any given moment.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Thank You Sponsors!