Torn

[Jeff]

I'm not sure what I want to do, (if even given the choice). Our deer numbers on my land have been next to nothing since I've owned the property, and well before that. Since the mid 1990's. In the last couple years we have had a noticeable increase in the numbers. There haven't been any doe permits allowed in 3 years, which has helped, plus we have had a series of very mild winters compared to normal for here.  Since hunting up here, on the cabin property since the mid 90's and on my own property just down the road, I have never taken a buck. Never even had the opportunity to take a buck.  There were threes years in a row, 2008 until 2010 where I never saw a deer during the entire deer season. 
This year I have seen deer about every time I go out with the bow. If not while I am sitting, when I get up to leave I kick them out.  This morning I went and got the card out of the camera that I have on the powerline on my property, and there over 70 photos on it since I put it out yesterday morning. Deer there at all times of the day. I even had two more bucks on the camera that I had not seen before. Thats 3 different bucks this week.

Now the dilemma. None of these bucks would be considered shooters anywhere else that have healthy deer numbers. As I've said, I've never taken any buck from my property. I'd like to get a deer this year. I've put in countless hours creating trails, and trying to create a habitat that would be inviting to deer, and I'd like to reward that time by getting a deer after what has been I think 6 years since I have.  My problem is I want to see bigger better bucks. I know I should pass up the small ones, and let them grow. if I do, next year could really be good. But I want to get a deer. The bears, coyotes, bobcats and wolves get them, the neighbors around my property to the west and south will shoot them if given the opportunity, so why shouldn't I?

I want to get a deer, but I don't want to feel guilty about it, or I don't want to lesson the chances of bigger and better deer in the future. If I shoot one will it scratch the itch? I dunno. I know what my brother-in-law will do. Blast the first thing with horns. Last year he changed his policy from let them go and let them grow, to get him while the getting is good.

I know, it's a personal dilemma, and I guess I won't have the answer unless I happen to have a male deer in my crosshairs, hopefully Thursday morning. :-\

Here are a handful of photos from the last 24 hours, No bait pile, although I toss out a beet about every 50 yards or so, just my powerline food plot. I figure if I leave random snacks in various places, it will keep the deer moving.

[thecfarm]

Sounds like hunting on my land too. I don't hunt but many do on my land. My stepson is trying hard to get one,but only has a buck permit for this area. The does are there but not many bucks to be seen during daylight. He has a few bucks on camera at 1-4am. One real nice one. I could of shot a doe behind the house,about 75 feet,the other day. Four does was walking along like they always do. It's hard to let a kinda small-good size buck pass in this area,while waiting for something bigger.You may not see another buck at all.

[doctorb]

First, it sounds like the deer population is rebounding nicely after years in decline.  Be careful for what you wish for.  You may be overrun before you know it.  Second, as none of the bucks are "shooters", take a doe, unless there is no doe season up on the UP.  That way you'll have some venison this year as well as the anticipation for a bigger buck the next year.  I think you should let some of those young bucks mature a bit, saving them as your breeding stock.  Why take something that may turn into a trophy, just for the sake of taking something?

Has your coyote population decreased?  I am told they are tough on fawns, which keeps the deer population down.

[Jeff]

That's an issue, no doe permits. Also, if I shoot a doe, I potentially shoot 3 deer, if you count the next years fawns. So with shooting a doe, I'm shooting the deer factory.  I had an opportunity to shoot a great big doe the other night with the crossbow. You are allowed to take a doe with the bow (crossbow is considered a bow).  She was magnificent. Her fawns, both does, were large and healthy, as was she. As I watched her I only briefly considered shooting her. She looked like she might be the matriarch of the area.

The coyote population here is large, and by looking at the most recent photos Lou has, healthy. You can't hardly be out in the early evening or morning without hearing them. Sometimes they sound like they are at the edge of the yard. We also have a lone black wolf here. At least I hope it's lone wolf I found out this morning that not only Lynda has seen it, but on the next farm to our east, they saw it this past week. So it's in the area.

[isawlogs]

We have doe tags here from a draw, I have none this year. I hve though gotten some in the past I try to find a dry doe and take her out, I sure would not like to take a doe with two fawns. At least you get some venison for the taste buds, I would try and let those little bucks get some growth , if only you could get them to survive the winter.....

   I like the fact that you're at least seeing some deer on the camera and while in the blind, sure makes the day go by a little quicker . ;)

[Magicman]

In a way you have to trust the G&F/Wildlife folks.  Their biologist are professionals and use various means to determine the density of the deer population before issuing permits.  They know that a certain percent of the hunters will be successful and issue accordingly. 

Looking at your population, and also knowing the I personally get very few mature bucks on camera in relation to what is actually there, I would take whatever my license allowed.  That is not in any way being selfish.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Personally if it is legal then I don't have any problem harvesting it. Used to think along the lines of "let them grow" but between the harsh winters and all the other hunters shooting anything that walks, chances are they won't get a chance to "grow".

No doe permits over here this year either, if we have another mild winter I'm going to get the DNR out and try to get crop damage tags and then start shooting anything that walks and donate them to the hunters for hunger program.

[clww]

On my land, deer get harvested if they are genetically inferior bucks with gnarly, smallish, or sub-par antlers that will never really amount to anything or they are 8-points or bigger. From what I and others have seen this year, there's only going to be one buck that I'll be looking for this season. We have many deer, and does are legal on certain days during gun season without a special tag or permit. Our county (Highland) regular firearms season is just over two weeks in length, and no Sunday hunting in VA.

[beenthere]

Jeff
Take a nice size buck and enjoy the venison. You deserve it, and if all continues to go well then there will be more next year. Don't worry about the rack size, just harvest some meat.
Too many other things can happen between now and next year to let 'em pass, IMO.

Taking one buck this year will make a very, very small dent in the whole scheme of things. But a drop in the ocean.

[doctorb]

Then take that spike buck and enjoy a few great meals.  Whoever he was potentially going to fertilize will be fertilized by another buck.  So your population still increases, you've got some venison, and your yearning to take a deer off your land after all these years will be satisfied.

[Autocar]

I know exactly how you feel, I would get togather with surrounding neighbors and see if you could work out a agreement on killing 140 class bucks or bigger only [ just a exsample ] that way you grow better bucks and you pass on the jeans and have time to see which bucks to keep or remove. And  get a feeding program going in the dead of winter to keep them healthy and as far as coyotes on a cold winter night set out on the snow with a game call and pop them with double O buck shot when you call them in. Around here they run them with hounds and some groups kill up wards fifty to seventy five a winter. Snaring has become popular also to catch them. Ive passed myself over the years because I felt he wasn't a mature deer. Good luck with your desision

[chevytaHOE5674]

I would get togather with surrounding neighbors and see if you could work out a agreement on killing 140 class bucks or bigger only [ just a exsample ] that way you grow better bucks...

One issue with that the home range of a deer can be several miles, that would mean contacting dozen upon dozens of landowners and then hoping they all go along with the idea (only takes one to shoot anything with 4 legs to screw it up). Also UP north here deer tend to migrate in the winters to deer yards, so that would mean contacting potentially hundreds of landowners about the "plan"...

If you live in an area where the land is owned in large continuous blocks then the idea of having all the neighbors getting on board with "letting them grow" can potentially work. In areas with lots of fragmentation then its next to impossible to accomplish IME.

For example there are many sections of land around here with 20+ landowners. Getting all 20 of them to agree on if the sun is shining would be tuff let alone trying to get them to agree to a deer management plan.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

The way I used to hunt was to sit in my stand and wait on that Big Buck. I used to let the smaller Bucks walk by. Over the past 10 years I have changed my hunting habits and it has paid off.

I will shoot a Buck if he shows signs of inbreeding or diseases. I've seen small runt Bucks that have a nice 6 point rack but he's just not gonna get any bigger......take him home.
I've seen Bucks with messed up looking racks that's caused from inbreeding......take him home. Jeff.....take a Buck. There are plenty of nice Bucks that need to be taken out. Will it cure your itch?  :D NO.  It will only add to your itch.

A lot of hunters put out bait just during hunting season. A big pile of bait is not good. Put bait out as a dessert not a meal.  I try to keep salt and other minerals out year round......this really is a plus. Probably none of your neighbors do this.

It sounds like ( Jeff ) your biggest problem is neighbors and Coyotes. Both can set back your hard work.

But I'm telling you....there is a monster Buck or more that will come by your stand at some point in time during hunting season. Sooner or later you will get them on camera....but they're out there. They stay on the move. The bad thing is, they don't live very long because of cars, poachers, disease and predators.

Want to scare a Big Buck away  smiley_horserider.....start grunting with a grunt you bought at the hunting store.  :D Start making Doe sounds.....them Big Bucks are smart.....they know better. Your worst enemy is wind carrying your scent.

If you see that BIG one, it's probably gonna be early morning......day break. just be ready.

[Larry]

Chevy has it right.  When I lived in north Missouri, myself and 5 other landowners thought we could do quality deer management.  Had a meeting with a Missouri Department of Conservation wildlife biologist.  He told us we didn't have a big enough block of land to make any difference, no matter what we did.

I think Missouri is now doing QDM by a bunch of rules on rack size in some locations.

I also learned a bit helping nephew when he was going to dental school.  One of the projects was to cut out a deer's jawbone and later aging the deer by the teeth.  They had a list of questions to ask the hunter to get there input.  A hunter might think his 6 point buck was a yearling when in reality it might be an old, out of condition buck.

BTW we went from no deer to being able to take a deer/day during the hunting season.  Of course each deer required the hunter to purchase a tag.  A money maker for the state.

[Jeff]

Well if this thing does come to pass, that a legal buck actually shows itself to me for the first time ever, hunting on the cabin land, or my land, I think I know what I'm going to do.

[isawlogs]

    Eat it !!!

[isawlogs]

 I read this on here ... ;D

   client who left a mesh bag of sugar beets at his deer blind to bait with. The next morning he came to the blind in the dark where he heard some unexpected noise and  commotion. A buck was trying to open the bag of beets and at daylight he quickly shot a nice 10 point buck.


   Where just talkin'  eh eh    ;D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Well if this thing does come to pass, that a legal buck actually shows itself to me for the first time ever, hunting on the cabin land, or my land, I think I know what I'm going to do.

What? Build him a Pine coffin?  :D

[Bibbyman]

 

 

I have a different deer hunting dilemma.  I've just about lost my desire to hunt deer any more.   The last three years I've taken a doe right from the sawshed.  Last year's "season" lasted three minutes from the time I walked out of the house.  After I shot it,  I thought, "Now I have to dress this thing out.". 

The first weekend of this deer season was miserable with high winds gusting to 45 mph.  I have taken my "meat gun" out with me to the saw shed but don't know if I can pull a trigger on a deer if opportunity comes up.  I'm just tired of messing with cleaning and butchering them.  But I do like the chili Mary makes from them.

I'm letting a neighbor hunt on our farm.  He has a hectic work schedule and not much time to hunt so having a place next door has to benefit him.  He's heard and seen several deer but no luck yet.

[Magicman]

My plans as of right now is to go to the Cabin probably tomorrow and do some "Addition" work.  I can then go each evening and deer watch.

Our gun season opens Saturday.   

[beenthere]

I think I know what I'm going to do.

digin_2     food2       

[ellmoe]

   Taking a buck on your property will not effect the growth of your deer herd. It's time for a reward! As for management, 10,000 acres or more to really make a difference with a free range herd. You pass a buck up, someone else will probably shoot it. If the population continues to increase, more hunters will be inclined to wait for a bigger one and the herd may improve. Unlike the south, in your area, one bad winter can put you back at the starting blocks. Good hunting! I got my first of the season Monday. I usually take two or three at the mill each year. Twenty years ago, we didn't have any deer.
Mark

[SPIKER]

My nephew has hunted my place for 4 or so years gotten some nice doe & a 12 point buck.   He hunts with a buddy who has done better than he has.   this year the buddy took a BIG doe and the buddies wife also took amid sized doe.   I have only 22 acres but a BIG population usually 5 to 8 resident doe and a couple bucks on there.

The deer population here are very HIGH so lots of good sized ones.   they are almost a nuisance lots of car deer damage done here.   couple guys I work with drive 40min and an hour those two are either bad drivers or driving too fast they are up to 6 or 8  between the two of them this year.   Mike hit one tore up car & was driving hit a 2nd one prior to getting it into the shop for the 1st fix.   The 2nd one was 14point BUCK, lots more damage took out radiator and window.   It ran up and off, he found it that afternoon going home 150yards from impact.  He was driving his truck while car repair getting done & hit one w truck swapped the truck for the car at the body shop and promptly hit a 4th deer on the 2nd day driving the repaired car.   His insurance is rather high incase ya wondering..   Stan has had 3 or 4 too usually a few more weeks between the two and he got one last week...

I ALMOST got a Monster buck last fall this time of year.  I was running 55~60 and seen him come out in the high-beams, and I though DANG look at the size of that thing!  prior to it dawning on me it was walking right out in front of me! :(   it had not only one of the biggest racks but was simply HUGE.   

Mark

[Norm]

Good luck Jeff, hope you get one. 

[Texas Ranger]

To much angst, shoot the DanG thing!