Rebuilding a Stihl 011 av -

[chainsaw_louie]

Hi,

                   (How to split the case halves?)
My trusty stihl 011 av stopped running right .  After the usual carb kit didn't help,
I tested for crankcase air leaks:  blocked up the intake and the exhaust ports and with a 5psi setting on
the compressor and some bubble mix, I could see that there was an air leak on the
main crank seal (flywheel side).  After trying unsuccessfully to remove that tiny
seal, and not wanting to pay the shop minimum of $40 to pull the seal, I decided to
split the case and remove the seals and maybe replace rings and bearings.

Tonight , I got so far as getting the cylinder off and all the case screws out. Now
I need somebody to tell me how to split the case?  Do I hit it with a mallet or pry
with a screwdriver (probably not) or do I punch out those pins.  I just thought I would
ask before I did something too rough. 

Thanks,

Tim

[Al_Smith]

The easiest way to pull a seal is to use a small  prick punch and drive a small hole in the seal then insert a pointy drywall screw . Then  pull the seal out using a pair of pliers,Channallocks or something like that .

[chainsaw_louie]

Thanks but this 011 is a very small saw and the seal is tiny so there is not much to
drill into or put a screw into. I tried several diy approaches but there just isnt much
room to more in or grab onto. 

[Michael]

In other words Al. "I have discounted doing that and now I want help with the next step I decided on" " Don't try to tell me I did the previous step incorrectly. I have moved past that and only want advise on what I think I should do next"

[chainsaw_louie]

Hi Guys,

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=504&pos=3

OK, lemme take another look at this. The 2 pictures show how the tip of a
drywall screw is almost the same width as the plastic part of the seal.  Are
you saying that I can get a screw into that ? 

Is the seal a plastic and metal combination,  I see what appears to be a metal
ring on the outside of the plastic seal. Do these come out together, can I pick/pull
on that steel part ?



Believe me I dont want to split the case if I dont have to.

Thanks.

[Al_Smith]

The outer part of the seal is steel,the part that does the sealing is "buna N " rubber . You have to get on the steel to pull the seal .Not to worry if you tear up the seal. I mean after all you are going to replace it .

I've pulled seals as small as that .Don't drill a hole in it because you could get shavings in the bearing ,punch a tiny hole ,awl, ice pick, pointy punch . Drive a skinny screwdriver in the side and pry it out .Use a corkscew puller .A zillion ways to jerk a seal without splitting the case

I suppose I could look it up in the service manual if you like .Hold on a tad bit .I'll take a peek this afternoon on what the almighty Stihl company has to say about and get back with you .

[chainsaw_louie]

Thanks Al, I am off in that direction now : looking for a tiny point punch.
I had used a small, thin, flat ss steel bar from a windshield wiper with a hook
filed into the side about 1/4" up.  Tried to slide it in along the crank and
with visegrips on it, twist a bit and pull back but it pulled out w/o getting
the seal, as you said it didnt bite into the steel. 

OK great, you tell me it can be done, I'm on it.  And the screws go back
into the case. . 

Tim

[JohnG28]

Maybe a small screwdriver like in an eyeglass repair kit, if ya happen to have something like that around.

[Al_Smith]

In the service manual Stihl shows using an expandable seal puller which seems to be what they recommend in all cases .

If you can't get a screw stuck it you might try taking an old screwdriver and grinding  a small 90 degree hook on the end of it .Something strong enough and thin enough to slip under the metal and leverage it out  with .It would be on the same idea as a hook puller . Fact is I have commercialy made one which I can never find when I need it that has a screwdriver handle on it .I can always find a drywall screw though .Like I said don't be concerned with trashing the seal but protect the crank shaft end .

I could go on forever as it's much easier to do it rather than explain it .Try "googling " seal puller .Look at a few designs and copy it .

[chainsaw_louie]

Hot Dog! 

All's I needed was a little pushing to try harder,  I got em both!!

Here are some pictures of the tool I made and the extracted tool.

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=2

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=4

Thanks,

Tim

[Al_Smith]

Goody ! Hang around a few forums long enough we'll have you building souped up  saws . ;)

[chainsaw_louie]

Related question:  I am going to make up my parts order and of course its
2 seals

but what else should I be replacing. One dealer said  '...you might as well do the 2 bearings and 2 rings...'

Would you agree with that ? 
I measured the side -to-side play in the crank and it is about .040 inches (10.16mm), I have no idea what
the normal play is here and if crank bearings have anything to do with this.

As for the rings and piston, I get 110 psi on a cold engine compression test, there doesn't appear to be any
scoring and the rings will move/turn in the grooves.

pictures of pistion
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=11221&pos=1
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=11221&pos=3


So, do I or should I replace either of : bearings , rings, pistion or
just go with new crank seals and button er up.  ??

Thanks,

Tim

[Al_Smith]

By the looks of the picture you've got something abrasive stuck in the cylinder which grooved your top ring . Clean the piston and cylinder up with either extremely fine sand paper or a 3M "green pad" using kerosine,WD-40 or something .Make sure you flush it out real well leaving no residue behind .

Then a set of rings and seals and call it a day . In my opinion an 011 is not a saw you want to sink a lot of money into .Fact is I have one in my shed which belongs to a trimmer of whom I doubt ever comes out to reclaim it .

[chainsaw_louie]

Hi,
Its four months later and I am picking up this thread again.  I got the gasket set + 2 new rings for the stihl 011 and had spent an hour today trying to get back into it.
I cleaned up the piston with a green pad and some pb-blaster, surprised to see that with a little elbow grease the black crud comes off.

Got the old rings off and then used a piece of the old one to clean out the grooves.
Next I put in the two rings, so far so good. 

Now, the connecting rod bearings .... I coated the crank with grease and then carefully placed each small bearing in the journal on crank and slid the connecting rod over the whole set of bearing. BUT it seems like there is space for one more roller bearing to fit in the groove and I don't know exactly how many of those little bearings there were to begin with or should  be.   Should there be a 1/8" gap between the bearings when they are all in there or am I missing one?

What do you all use to keep the conn-rod on the crank while you put the piston in the cylinder, there must be some good trick for this. Its such a small piston and while I am looking at the rings and the cylinder and trying to get them together , it doesn't take much for the bearings to fall out again.....arrrrgh.

Thanks.

Tim

[chainsaw_louie]

Here is a picture of what I mean, sorry its a bit out of focus but it shows the gap between the bearings.

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2931&pos=5

[SwampDonkey]

Too blurry for me to see much.

This is the proper code to display that picture, it's included for you below each image you click on in your gallery. Copy and paste it into your posts. There is a "quick edit" (tiny pencil on paper icon) button to the lower right hand corner of your post or the "Modify" button.

Code Select Expand

[IMG] https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11221/conn-rod-bearing.JPG [/IMG]

[SwampDonkey]

Doesn't sound too good if bearings are falling out. The connecting rod, crankshaft and needle bearing shouldn't be falling apart. If so they need replacing as "one unit".

[mastermind7864]

You should not have an 1/8" gap in the rollers, I've done a couple of those saws now and they are as simple as pie. You must have lost a roller bearing. I have some extras if you need some send me an email. ranevans64@gmail.com. As for the rod staying on the crank, just turn the crank so that the rod is all they way down into the crankcase. I have wooden tools that I use to hold the piston while I push in the pin. Just a piece of 2x4 with a hole roughly the size of the piston drilled in it with a fostner bit, then ripped to make a half circle.

Clear as mud???

[SwampDonkey]

If your talking about stuffing the piston in the case, I remove the two snap rings and take out the piston pin. Then I fit the piston and new rings into to top half and then carefully re-install the pin and rings in the piston and arm and close the two halves. While doing this I'm careful not to let the piston and rings slip out to expose the rings. Make sure the gasket is on the bottom half first. I place a little gasket fixer to it so it doesn't move. ;)

[chainsaw_louie]

Hey Fellas, thanks for the help.

Randy sent me a couple of rollers and after putting one more in, it looks much better:





Using two little pieces of wood and a clamp to hold the connecting rod in place so it didn't slip to the side, I got the cylinder on and can move ahead .

Tim