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Solved Black Gum What tree might it be?

Started by geoff28791, August 03, 2011, 01:21:03 PM

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geoff28791

I am helping a man thin his timber.  He has many trees marked for removal, and many marked as crop trees.  Primarily, the crop trees are white oak, primarily are red and white oak marked for removal also.  I cut a tree today, fairly large, without noticing that it wasn't an oak at all.  The tree has an oak-like bark, and was fairly tall and straight.  I realized it wasn't an oak when I began to cut it and it was much softer than the white oaks I have been cutting.  I didn't think to take a photo of the tree or a sample of the leaves to make a positive id.  I wonder if anyone can help me ID the tree.

The best I can tell you is that I am cutting on a mountain in southern Appalachians(Near  Asheville, NC).  I estimate the elevation to be about 2700 to 3000 feet.  The tree had a DBH of about 18-20" and was tall and straight.(now it is long and straight)  There were small twigs near the stem with leaves on them.  I haven't been to see the crown yet as my truck ran out of gas and I want to skid it to the open before limbing because it landed in a laurel thicket.  Bark is oak-like but wood saws more like yellow poplar (liriodendron tulipifera), which is common around here.  The best I remember is that the leaves were simple, ovate, with a little serration. Leaves may be compound, but I believe that they were simple and alternate. The wood was light in color and cut easily, also not too heavy.   I wish I had a sample, but I figure that this place is better than most to get the identification help I desire today.  The tree as as large as most in the plot, but not a giant.  I think it is a common tree as I noticed others similar nearby.  Wish I had paid more attention in dendrology class twenty years ago.
Has anyone got any good guesses as to what it may be?
Thanks stupid_smiley
Forgot to mention that tree was hollow at the base.  I don't know if that is a clue or not.  Wood is soft.
stihl ms-460 18", 20",28"
stihl 046
husky 340 18"
husky 141 16"
several vintage homelite, craftsman, stihl, etc
Homemade splitter with 4 way wedge 18hp briggs 31" log capacity 24 gpm pump 5" bore estimated(guessed) way over 30 tons
still have 9 of my fingers

woodtroll

All good clues. I bet a Black Gum.

WDH

Cucumber tree maybe.  Was there any green in the heartwood?  What was the color of the heartwood?  Could be any number of species.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

geoff28791

Thanks for the response.  I don't think that is it.  I will try for photos today. May be black gum.
stihl ms-460 18", 20",28"
stihl 046
husky 340 18"
husky 141 16"
several vintage homelite, craftsman, stihl, etc
Homemade splitter with 4 way wedge 18hp briggs 31" log capacity 24 gpm pump 5" bore estimated(guessed) way over 30 tons
still have 9 of my fingers

geoff28791

Thanks for the help.  I am sure it's blackgum now.  I hear that it is tough to split for firewood.  II think that my splitter can handle it.  I will also be sure to keep the rest of my fingers out of the way.
stihl ms-460 18", 20",28"
stihl 046
husky 340 18"
husky 141 16"
several vintage homelite, craftsman, stihl, etc
Homemade splitter with 4 way wedge 18hp briggs 31" log capacity 24 gpm pump 5" bore estimated(guessed) way over 30 tons
still have 9 of my fingers

SwampDonkey

How about largetooth aspen? Since you said it has leaves with serrated edges, ovate and alternate with light colored wood, soft and cuts easy.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

clww

Gum tree. Yes, it's difficult to split (putting it mildly). If you don't have a hydraulic splitter, it makes for a long day. Gum doesn't really split; it shreds and rips apart with a lot of debris left over. Also, it has a very high moisture content. I cut quite a bit of it for customers here in the tidewater area. It burns well after drying out for many months and puts off a good amount of heat, bellow the hickory and oak firewood.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

WDH

If the leaves are serrated, even a little, then it is definitely not blackgum  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

west penn


Phorester

Quote from: WDH on August 06, 2011, 08:17:30 AM
If the leaves are serrated, even a little, then it is definitely not blackgum  :).

I also suspect that if it is soft wood, it's not black gum.  As others are saying about splitting black gum, it's hard to cut in any direction.  It's as hard and as heavy as oak.

geoff28791

It has been identified as blasckgum by someone I expect should know.  It cuts easily with a chainsaw as does sourwood.  the density is like that of sourwood(the big blocks are lighter than similar size oak)  the leaves are similar to an apple tree in arrangement and composition.  about 5  or 7 leaves with an entire(non-serate edge, alternate, and oblong with a distinct point at the end)  The bark is similar to sourwood except that it is a different color, more grayish than dark deep brown, and "scaly")  The wood splits like sourwood, in that I must put the splitter all of the way through it, it does not cleave.  A friend called it tupelo, and then pointed at some sourwood a have laying around.  He said, " that is  a different type of tupelo."  Both split similarly.  I think he is right.  Given the above info, if any of you think that this tree is not black gum, please let me know and why you think so.  It is ceartainly not as heavy as oak, and crosscuts easily compared to oak.  Displays charactoristics similar to the tree which I have been calling sourwood for years although it is a much larger tree.
stihl ms-460 18", 20",28"
stihl 046
husky 340 18"
husky 141 16"
several vintage homelite, craftsman, stihl, etc
Homemade splitter with 4 way wedge 18hp briggs 31" log capacity 24 gpm pump 5" bore estimated(guessed) way over 30 tons
still have 9 of my fingers

WDH

What you describe is exactly what I would expect from blackgum.  The part about the leaves being serrated was evidently not correct.  If you take a twig and split it into two pieces through the pith, you will see that the pith is diaphrammed.  That is, the pith has little dividers or spacers in it.  The solid part of the pith is broken up by these little diaphrams.  That is not a common feature among tree species.  From your description, it definitely must be blackgum.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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