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Foundation Footers?

Started by Kirk_Allen, March 03, 2005, 09:15:12 PM

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Kirk_Allen

Being laid up I figured I might as well start the plans on the new shop.  I plan on building a 100x60 shop. 

I plan on putting in the paremeter footings first so I can get the sides and roof up and then pooring the main floor in sections after its all covered.  Good idea or not?

My main question is in regards to footings.   What is the best dimensions for footings.  Depth, Width etc.  The walls are going to be 16' so I figure I will use either 2x6 or 2x8 studs. 

I can build anything but dont know squat about cement, other than I can finish it real well ;D  Did my brothers shop floor and it turned out great!


Minnesota_boy

Well, first you dig down about 12 feet to get below the frost line, Uh wait, you aren't from around here are you? :D ;D :o :o
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Kirk_Allen

Our frost line requirements in the closest city is 48" but we dont have any requirements in the country.............other than my own, which is to do it right. 

I assume I need them to be 48" deep?  What type of bedding goes below them?  Sand, gravel etc?

Ironwood

I am building a new shop sometime soon as well. Do you mean "footers" as in below the block foundation which is the perimeter the wall sits on ??? OR do you mean "footing" as in what steel columns will bear on? My building will have ten footings for the columns of steel to support the roof.  The walls will only fill the "voids" between the columns (20'long 14' high) and be on slab on grade style perimeter concrete slab.

  My only concern would be to over do the foundation, as I have seen to many nice buildings on garbage foundations. It is all decided by local soil/bedrock and weather conditions. OVERBUILD!

  You also need to consider if you have floor heat and don't overlook "slab on grade" systems as they are cost effective and functon well.  Use lots of rebar!!  Just my two cents.

  REID
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

footer

Kirk,
I would call your county or city building inspector office and give them the details on your building, and ask them for the foundation requirements. Here in Nebraska, our local codes call for any where from 3 feet to 4 feet from finished grade to bottom of footing. The footing has to be at least 16" wide x 8" thick. You realy need the advice of a local building inspector, or a local contractor that can tell you your requirements. They are different everywhere you go.

pasbuild

In my area the county inspector wont tell you what you need he will only tell you if what you have is right or wrong :( Building of that size here would require a footing 24" X 12" with two runs of #4 rebar.
what you need is a structural engineer to run the loads for you. I think Engineer is a civil engineer maybe he can do the numbers for you ;)
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

DanG

Kirk, drop by Lowe's and pick up a book called "Foundations and Concrete Work.  It gives you a lot of basics, as well as tips and tricks to setting your rebar, etc.  I've picked up a lot from it.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

J_T

Reid I think them are called piers. Last concreat I messed with was a pore in Texas dug the footing formed the floor put in rebar and pored it all at once . We always liked an extra bag per yard mix . Much stouter and finishes better. Since I got older would hate to do that big a job any more .Have had 50 yards on the ground at once in the old days  :( Good luck. 8)
Jim Holloway

footer

Kirk, Footings are usually required to go on virgin soil. If excevated too far, the fill would have to be packed. If 48" is required in your closest town, you would be pretty safe with that. I know your frost don't go down near as deep in MO as it does up here.

Kirk_Allen

Quote from: footer on March 03, 2005, 10:21:22 PM
Kirk,
I would call your county or city building inspector office and give them the details on your building, and ask them for the foundation requirements. Here in Nebraska, our local codes call for any where from 3 feet to 4 feet from finished grade to bottom of footing. The footing has to be at least 16" wide x 8" thick. You realy need the advice of a local building inspector, or a local contractor that can tell you your requirements. They are different everywhere you go.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
We dont have ANY building inspectors what so ever.  When I did the roof I tried to find some code information and the lumber yard guys laughed me out of the place.  They said, "What do you want to do? What ever it is just do it.  We aint got no code requirements here.  We aint like you city folk.  Cept now if you want a ceptic system.  Thats fed stuff but most folk just do what they want on that too!".

Kirk_Allen

Thanks Dang.  I will pick one up next time im in town. 

woodmills1

On my garage addition I used 2 x 6 walls and my foorings were 16" wide and 12" thick.  I set them 48" deep on undisturbed or well tamped subsoil.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Ironwood

J-T,

  Yes, thanks, piers.

  Lets see,,,,,,call the building code enforcement guy, sounds like shooting yourself in the foot.  Seriously though, we have called them for some things, I just don't give my name.....that clearly...I muttle through the intro and get right to the question. The less they know the better, we live way off he road and out of site.

                         REID
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Tom_Averwater

In Ohio you would need at least a 20  x 8  inch footer. Are you going to lay up a block wall for the perimeter ? You could use a block called a header block  on the top row to contain the concret . I  would get your slab poured before you frame the walls. It sure makes it alot easier.  Tom   8)
He who dies with the most toys wins .

Engineer

Kirk,

Dig down to native soil, 48" below the anticipated finished grade.   Your footings should be 8-10" thick and 20-24" wide.   Pour on undisturbed soil that has been compacted with a plate tamper or jumping jack rammer.  If for some reason, you overdig, fill the low spots with crushed stone, not dirt - it will settle and your footing will be suspended in midair.  The footing should be reinforced with a minimum of 2- #4 rebars, suspended about 3" from the bottom and each side of the footing.  That can be done by either placing on 'chairs' especially for reinforcing, or by hanging the bars from form wire suspended from crosspieces on the footing.

It's not rocket science unless you have a complicated structure, strange soils or unusual loads.  E-mail me if you have any questions.

Jon (PE but not in IL)

Kirk_Allen

So if my footers are only 8-10" thick and they are 48" down then what goes on top of that to get me even with grade which is about 3" above said footings?

What I had invisioned was basically digging a 20" wide trench down 48".  Then put in my rebar and fill the trench with cement.  I was planning on putting the walls directly on the cement footer. Im getting the impression I am way off on this. 


etat

QuoteWhat I had invisioned was basically digging a 20" wide trench down 48".  Then put in my rebar and fill the trench with cement.  I was planning on putting the walls directly on the cement footer. Im getting the impression I am way off on this.

Well, that's just right near about how I done the footer fer my house.  I don't know the first dang thing about concrete but that's wha I see done a lot. Lots a folks around her only dig em about two feet, sometimes less,  on smaller houses. 

I've seen em pour big slabs and have some cross trenches dug to help strengthen the thing in the middle. When on fill dirt or bad soil I've seen em spot dig piers about every ten feet or so to help keep the slab from sinking.

I also know that you can order the concrete with different mixes depending how strong you want it to be. I also understand a drier mix cures harder but is much harder to work.  Keeping it covered and wet and letting it cure slow also makes it harder.

Some folks that want to pour a thinner slab or will less rebar have them mix fiberglass with the concrete at the factory.  I tried to help a plumber bust through a hole through a 4 inch slab one time that had fiberglass in it.  We drilled nearly a full circle out with a rotary hammer and still like to never busted that piece out. That concrete was hard.  I tried to suggest we go get some blasting powder or dynamite but he wouldn't hear none of that. 

That is exactly 'everything' I know or think I know about concrete.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Stump Jumper

First off, I don't know much about concrete but I do know you better make your workshop bigger because you always need more room.  Maybe increase by 1/3.   :o :D ;D 8)
Jeff
May God Bless.
WM LT 40 SuperHDD42 HP Kubota walk & ride, WM Edger, JD Skidsteer 250, Farmi winch, Bri-Mar Dump Box Trailer, Black Powder

Stump Jumper

Almost forgot hope you get feelin' better.  Our prayers are with you. :)
Jeff
May God Bless.
WM LT 40 SuperHDD42 HP Kubota walk & ride, WM Edger, JD Skidsteer 250, Farmi winch, Bri-Mar Dump Box Trailer, Black Powder

Furby

Kirk,
For standard basements in this area they pour a 8" deep x 16" wide footing, below the frost line or at the depth of the basement, centered under the wall. Then the blocks are laid, or a concrete wall is poured. In most cases both are 8" thick, unless the structure requires more. The footing should be at least twice the thickness of the wall to spread the weight. The wall sould extend about 10" or more above grade. It can be less, but it does help keep the moisture down on the sheathing and such. I assume you are talking 16' walls without a second floor? Depending on the type of stucture you build, you may have to go bigger on the footings.

If you are planning to have a couple of 14' overhead doors in the building, you can pour the floor later. Otherwise I'd take the time to pour the floor before putting up the walls, or all the concrete will have to be moved around inside the building by bocat and such means. If you hire out the pouring of the floor, you'll get a better price if you do it before the walls.

As stated, there are many different "mixes" of concrete. Some are different just by area of the country. If you can spare the cash, I'd hire someone to do atleast the footings and also pour concrete walls. They can do it in 2 or 3 days, and then be out of the picture. Also they will use the concrete mix appropriate for the area and conditions, I.E. time of year and soil. You can do the floor yourself with some help, but if you hire it out you'll probly end up with a better finished product, due simply to the size of the building.

woodmills1

trouble is concret is really expensive and the planned dig doesnt ever get to be so nice with what you find in the ground.  So you excavate to 4 foot then cut some 12 ich boards of junk or better level them on undisturbed earth and pour them full of concrete.  Then ya build forms to bring concrete up to the grade you want.  You can buid then floor later.  good luck just diggin and pourin thats what I wanted to do but the soil let me down.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

footer

Kirk, It isnt just the city folk around here that has to follow the building codes. It is any one anywhere in the said countys. If I were to build a building and didn't get a permit, and somehow the building inspection dopt foun out, they could, and most likely make you tear it down and make you start over.
I know there are places that are like you state, and thay don't enforce any codes, it was just a thought on haw to find what was right in your area. Here there would be nothiung wrong with digging a 16" wide trench and filling it with concrete to make the footing and foundation wall in one. You just cant dig an 8" trench and fill it up with no footing under it. Although that is allowed in the county next to us if you are outside of the jurisdiction of the city.


Kirk_Allen

Since there is not going to be a basement what is accomplished by going below the frost line? 

Buzz-sawyer

The deal with frost line is to prevent frost heaving and shifting of yer shed :)
However , you can build a floater, a monolithic pour, which means it has a shallow footer around the edge and the floor as one integral unit...they work, but you need some steel in there also.

In a conventional footer foundation combo do use 2 pieces of re bar in the footer and also every16 inches or so in your foundation bend 90 degrees around the corner and tie irt all together....it will last and maintain its integrity...
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

maple flats

An old saying about building a shop for what it's worth. Build it twice as big as you think you'll need and you'll have half of what you actually need!! 8) 8) 8) On the concrete it sounds like 4' should be good for depth for your area. I would pour it 10"thick and 24"wide with rebar sticking up every 2' and rebar horizontally 3-4 inches in from outer edge and up from bottom. Then I would pour a 12"wall on top of it to finish several inches above grade and put the studded wall you want on that. Remember to also put ties or j-bolts to anchor the stud wall plate down about every 4' or so with one in about a foot from each corner. Not an engineerr, fact cant even spell it, but did some building in the past. You should also rebar the top of the poured wall in similar spacing as suggested for the footer but with the rebar down about 4-6" from the top and 3-4" in from each edge. The footer is to keep things from settling and bear the weight, then the poured wall just saves expensive concrete as opposed to making the footer contain all that extra concrete (unless ya won the lottery big time) ::)
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

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